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Post by James on Apr 8, 2019 5:22:27 GMT
I’ll admit, those covers look pretty cool together. Too bad we gotta have the bad ones get their share.
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ravi02
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Post by ravi02 on Apr 8, 2019 6:13:13 GMT
I'm guessing this will be like a screening of The Room where people will come and mock it?
There are certainly bad films that have some fun camp value, but B&R is not one of them. It's a cinematic trainwreck of epic proportions, killed off its franchise for eight years (until Batman Begins was released) and it is boring. Why not just watch at home?
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Post by Spike Del Rey on Apr 8, 2019 13:28:37 GMT
Eh. I'm not about to pay to see it again, but it's still better than Batman Forever. At least it knew what it was and embraced the camp.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Apr 8, 2019 19:02:47 GMT
It's cringey, but I'd still rather sit though it then Batman Forever, which is just plain dull.
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Post by janntosh on Apr 8, 2019 20:31:02 GMT
It's cringey, but I'd still rather sit though it then Batman Forever, which is just plain dull. Batman Forever has young Nicole Kidman who was hotter than the sun
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2019 8:31:25 GMT
I can understand re-releases for 'so bad they're good' films or bad films which have a cult following... but Batman & Robin is, from what I recall, a complete bore, and doesn't even have camp value. Does anybody actually have any interest in sitting through this thing again? It definitely has camp value for me and is definitely not a bore. It also definitely has a following of fans who enjoy it because it's so goofy. I actually just re-watched Batman & Robin for the 4th time recently and still mildly enjoy it for being "so bad in such a silly way." Arnold is legit awesome in it as far as I'm concerned. It's one of the all time greatest campy performances imo. The art direction and score are actually quite good. The only two aspects of the movie I actually hate are Batgirl and Bane. The only two aspects of the movie I enjoyed were Uma Thurman as Poison Ivy who I still strongly believe could have been a great Poison Ivy if they had written the character better and made her more powerful like she is supposed to be in the comic books and Alicia Silverstone was kinda sexy as Batgirl even though she was horribly miscast and was a far better choice for Supergirl. Arnold wasn't horrible as Mr Freeze but aside from the accent which would have been a dead giveaway to who he was I think he was better suited for the role of Batman which I heard he was going to get except he wanted to play a villain for a change after being the hero in so many movies.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2019 8:38:52 GMT
I’ll admit, those covers look pretty cool together. Too bad we gotta have the bad ones get their share. I still enjoy 'Batman Forever.' A lot of people forget or aren't old enough to know how popular that movie was when it first came out in the 90s and nearly everybody I knew loved it and was saying it was one of the best superhero movies ever made but then 'Batman & Robin' came out and a lot of people who liked it turned on the movie 'cause it become fun to insult 'Batman & Robin.' I will still say to this day 'Batman Forever' is the closest thing we have had to a real 'Batman' movie and despite 'Batman & Robin' being awful it was too. The movies that followed by Christopher Nolan were nothing like the majority of Batman comic books and are lacking all the major characters that have been a big part of them for decades and while I am not saying they were horrible as a long time fan of the comic books and the Bat Family I don't count them as being proper adaptions of 'Batman.'
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Post by James on Apr 9, 2019 8:51:43 GMT
I’ll admit, those covers look pretty cool together. Too bad we gotta have the bad ones get their share. I still enjoy 'Batman Forever.' A lot of people forget or aren't old enough to know how popular that movie was when it first came out in the 90s and nearly everybody I knew loved it and was saying it was one of the best superhero movies ever made but then 'Batman & Robin' came out and a lot of people who liked it turned on the movie 'cause it become fun to insult 'Batman & Robin.' I will still say to this day 'Batman Forever' is the closest thing we have had to a real 'Batman' movie and despite 'Batman & Robin' being awful it was too. The movies that followed by Christopher Nolan were nothing like the majority of Batman comic books and are lacking all the major characters that have been a big part of them for decades and while I am not saying they were horrible as a long time fan of the comic books and the Bat Family I don't count them as being proper adaptions of 'Batman.' Eh, Forever is kind of a guilty pleasure. A lot of it is batshit insane (mostly thanks to Tommy Lee and Jim Carrey’s performances) but not nearly as bad as the next one. It’s not really garbage but it doesn’t hold up to the first two movies, is all I’m saying.
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Post by moviemouth on Apr 9, 2019 14:24:30 GMT
It definitely has camp value for me and is definitely not a bore. It also definitely has a following of fans who enjoy it because it's so goofy. I actually just re-watched Batman & Robin for the 4th time recently and still mildly enjoy it for being "so bad in such a silly way." Arnold is legit awesome in it as far as I'm concerned. It's one of the all time greatest campy performances imo. The art direction and score are actually quite good. The only two aspects of the movie I actually hate are Batgirl and Bane. The only two aspects of the movie I enjoyed were Uma Thurman as Poison Ivy who I still strongly believe could have been a great Poison Ivy if they had written the character better and made her more powerful like she is supposed to be in the comic books and Alicia Silverstone was kinda sexy as Batgirl even though she was horribly miscast and was a far better choice for Supergirl. Arnold wasn't horrible as Mr Freeze but aside from the accent which would have been a dead giveaway to who he was I think he was better suited for the role of Batman which I heard he was going to get except he wanted to play a villain for a change after being the hero in so many movies. I didn't say Arnold was well cast, just that he is campy fun. Let me be very clear, his performance is only awesome in context with the movie he is in. If this were a good Batman movie his performance would be awful. Uma Thurman's performance gets a bit dull after a while imo, partly because her character is written horribly. I personally don't find her very sexy or menacing in the role and without those two aspects there isn't much left to enjoy. I do think she is good when playing the nerdy side of the character though. I actually think Michael Gough gives his best performance in Batman & Robin of the 4 Batman movies he is in. In fact, this movie is the only one to give his Alfred something to actually do.
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Post by James on Apr 9, 2019 14:28:34 GMT
The only two aspects of the movie I enjoyed were Uma Thurman as Poison Ivy who I still strongly believe could have been a great Poison Ivy if they had written the character better and made her more powerful like she is supposed to be in the comic books and Alicia Silverstone was kinda sexy as Batgirl even though she was horribly miscast and was a far better choice for Supergirl. Arnold wasn't horrible as Mr Freeze but aside from the accent which would have been a dead giveaway to who he was I think he was better suited for the role of Batman which I heard he was going to get except he wanted to play a villain for a change after being the hero in so many movies. I didn't say Arnold was well cast, just that he is campy fun. Uma Thurman's performance gets a bit dull after a while imo, partly because her character is written horribly. I personally don't find her very sexy or menacing in the role and without those two aspects there isn't much left to enjoy. I do think she is good when playing the nerdy side of the character though. I actually think Michael Gough gives his best performance in Batman & Robin of the 4 Batman movies he is in. In fact, this movie is the only one to give his Alfred something to actually do. Holy crap, that’s actually a good point!!
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Post by moviemouth on Apr 9, 2019 14:32:58 GMT
I didn't say Arnold was well cast, just that he is campy fun. Uma Thurman's performance gets a bit dull after a while imo, partly because her character is written horribly. I personally don't find her very sexy or menacing in the role and without those two aspects there isn't much left to enjoy. I do think she is good when playing the nerdy side of the character though. I actually think Michael Gough gives his best performance in Batman & Robin of the 4 Batman movies he is in. In fact, this movie is the only one to give his Alfred something to actually do. Holy crap, that’s actually a good point!!
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Post by moviemouth on Apr 9, 2019 15:03:30 GMT
I’ll admit, those covers look pretty cool together. Too bad we gotta have the bad ones get their share. I still enjoy 'Batman Forever.' A lot of people forget or aren't old enough to know how popular that movie was when it first came out in the 90s and nearly everybody I knew loved it and was saying it was one of the best superhero movies ever made but then 'Batman & Robin' came out and a lot of people who liked it turned on the movie 'cause it become fun to insult 'Batman & Robin.' I will still say to this day 'Batman Forever' is the closest thing we have had to a real 'Batman' movie and despite 'Batman & Robin' being awful it was too. The movies that followed by Christopher Nolan were nothing like the majority of Batman comic books and are lacking all the major characters that have been a big part of them for decades and while I am not saying they were horrible as a long time fan of the comic books and the Bat Family I don't count them as being proper adaptions of 'Batman.' I have never read the comic books, but many fans of the comic books say that Nolan's versions are easily the closest the the comic books from a writing standpoint. Though I think they are mostly based only on Batman: Year One, The Killing Joke and The Long Halloween. I am very familiar with the animated series though and Nolan's versions are easily the closest to that imo. I am old enough to remember the hype of Batman Forever btw, but looking back it is hard to understand why any adult actually liked it. The only thing it really gets right is giving Bruce Wayne a little more development and it is closer to the comic books than Burton's versions. Two-Face for example is very poorly written, Chris O'Donnell is horribly miscast, the movie is too colorful and Riddler's plan makes very little sense and Commissioner Gordon is once again treated like a third-tier character and a buffoon. It is certainly better than Batman & Robin, but it is far from being a good movie.
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Post by vegalyra on Apr 9, 2019 15:27:43 GMT
Mama always said if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything.
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Post by darkreviewer2013 on Apr 10, 2019 2:07:56 GMT
It definitely has camp value for me and is definitely not a bore. It also definitely has a following of fans who enjoy it because it's so goofy. I actually just re-watched Batman & Robin for the 4th time recently and still mildly enjoy it for being "so bad in such a silly way." Arnold is legit awesome in it as far as I'm concerned. It's one of the all time greatest campy performances imo. The art direction and score are actually quite good. The only two aspects of the movie I actually hate are Batgirl and Bane. The only two aspects of the movie I enjoyed were Uma Thurman as Poison Ivy who I still strongly believe could have been a great Poison Ivy if they had written the character better and made her more powerful like she is supposed to be in the comic books and Alicia Silverstone was kinda sexy as Batgirl even though she was horribly miscast and was a far better choice for Supergirl. Arnold wasn't horrible as Mr Freeze but aside from the accent which would have been a dead giveaway to who he was I think he was better suited for the role of Batman which I heard he was going to get except he wanted to play a villain for a change after being the hero in so many movies. Uma Thurman would have made a fantastic Poison Ivy in a better conceived Batman film with a strong plot and a much more serious tone. Arnie was a disastrous Mr. Freeze, however. Don't get me wrong - I love the guy, but the whole portrayal of the character was so very wrong. The horrendous dialogue was a huge part of the problem for both characters, of course.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2019 7:54:17 GMT
I still enjoy 'Batman Forever.' A lot of people forget or aren't old enough to know how popular that movie was when it first came out in the 90s and nearly everybody I knew loved it and was saying it was one of the best superhero movies ever made but then 'Batman & Robin' came out and a lot of people who liked it turned on the movie 'cause it become fun to insult 'Batman & Robin.' I will still say to this day 'Batman Forever' is the closest thing we have had to a real 'Batman' movie and despite 'Batman & Robin' being awful it was too. The movies that followed by Christopher Nolan were nothing like the majority of Batman comic books and are lacking all the major characters that have been a big part of them for decades and while I am not saying they were horrible as a long time fan of the comic books and the Bat Family I don't count them as being proper adaptions of 'Batman.' Eh, Forever is kind of a guilty pleasure. A lot of it is batshit insane (mostly thanks to Tommy Lee and Jim Carrey’s performances) but not nearly as bad as the next one. It’s not really garbage but it doesn’t hold up to the first two movies, is all I’m saying. Okay. That's fair. I didn't mind Jim Carrey as the Riddler that much and thought he was funny in some parts of the movie but I think the best adaption of the Riddler to date has been the one in the 'Arkham' games and would love to see a version like that in live action and I have also enjoyed watching the Riddler in 'Gotham' and wasn't a big fan of the way they were portraying the character at first but it grew on me over the seasons. Do you watch 'Gotham' and what are your thoughts on the show? There are only two more episodes left and it has been confirmed we are going to see Bruce as Batman in the final episode and Barbara Gordon which will be set in the future.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2019 8:17:53 GMT
I still enjoy 'Batman Forever.' A lot of people forget or aren't old enough to know how popular that movie was when it first came out in the 90s and nearly everybody I knew loved it and was saying it was one of the best superhero movies ever made but then 'Batman & Robin' came out and a lot of people who liked it turned on the movie 'cause it become fun to insult 'Batman & Robin.' I will still say to this day 'Batman Forever' is the closest thing we have had to a real 'Batman' movie and despite 'Batman & Robin' being awful it was too. The movies that followed by Christopher Nolan were nothing like the majority of Batman comic books and are lacking all the major characters that have been a big part of them for decades and while I am not saying they were horrible as a long time fan of the comic books and the Bat Family I don't count them as being proper adaptions of 'Batman.' I have never read the comic books, but many fans of the comic books say that Nolan's versions are easily the closest the the comic books from a writing standpoint. Though I think they are mostly based only on Batman: Year One, The Killing Joke and The Long Halloween. I am very familiar with the animated series though and Nolan's versions are easily the closest to that imo. I am old enough to remember the hype of Batman Forever btw, but looking back it is hard to understand why any adult actually liked it. The only thing it really gets right is giving Bruce Wayne a little more development and it is closer to the comic books than Burton's versions. Two-Face for example is very poorly written, Chris O'Donnell is horribly miscast, the movie is too colorful and Riddler's plan makes very little sense and Commissioner Gordon is once again treated like a third-tier character and a buffoon. It is certainly better than Batman & Robin, but it is far from being a good movie. The three biggest problems I have always had with the Nolan movies are.
1) World's Greatest Detective vs Vigilante
In the majority of the Batman comic books Batman is a Detective who works with the GCPD to take down criminals and he is seen as a hero by many people who live in Gotham City and not a feared vigilante on the run from the law. Not to mention Batman is also supposed to be a highly skilled martial artist and we see just what he is capable of in the comic books, Arkham games and animated movies but all the live action movies have failed to show this and the fight scenes have all been very crappy compared to how good of a fighter Batman is supposed to be.
2) Team Leader vs Lone Vigilante
In the majority of Batman comic books Batman is a team leader. NOT a lone vigilante and there have been many members of the Bat Family such as Batgirl, Nightwing, The Spoiler, Red Robin, Orphan, Batwoman, Bluebird, Azrael, Flamebird/Hawkfire, Batwing, Clayface etc etc and many of these characters have played a very large part in the comic books over the decades. It was Bob Kane who once said a Batman without a Robin was like Sherlock Holmes without Watson and DC have even acknowledged the success of the Bat Family members has been one of the main things that have helped Batman remain popular for so many years and many fans bought Batman comic books to read the stories about the Bat Family characters. The success of these characters lead to many having their own spinoff series like Batgirl, Nightwing, Batwoman, Birds of Prey, Teen Titans, Red Hood and the Outlaws etc and in terms of comic book sales Dick Grayson (Nightwing/Robin/Grayson) is the third biggest selling DC character of all time below Superman and Batman. It is hard to see a franchise which is missing the majority of the characters as a proper adaption.
3) Based In the Real World
A lot of Batman's best villains are of the supernatural variety like Killer Croc, Clayface, Poison Ivy, Solomon Grundy, Mr Freeze, Bane, Man Bat, the Demon Three etc and basing it in the real world made it impossible for the writers to use them. Even Christopher Nolan later said this was a mistake 'cause there were characters he wanted to use that he couldn't fit into the real world and Killer Croc was one of them.
That being said I can see why some people like the movies and I am not saying they are horrible movies but as a longtime fan of the comic books especially the Bat Family characters I found them to be lousy adaptions and I personally think the best adaptions of Batman we have had so far have been the Arkham games which had Batman as the World's Greatest Detective working with the GCPD, featured some Bat Family characters (we even got a Batgirl game) and had him facing a lot of his supernatural villains and a large part of that was 'cause Paul Dini who was an experienced Batman writer.
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Post by James on Apr 14, 2019 10:20:35 GMT
Eh, Forever is kind of a guilty pleasure. A lot of it is batshit insane (mostly thanks to Tommy Lee and Jim Carrey’s performances) but not nearly as bad as the next one. It’s not really garbage but it doesn’t hold up to the first two movies, is all I’m saying. Okay. That's fair. I didn't mind Jim Carrey as the Riddler that much and thought he was funny in some parts of the movie but I think the best adaption of the Riddler to date has been the one in the 'Arkham' games and would love to see a version like that in live action and I have also enjoyed watching the Riddler in 'Gotham' and wasn't a big fan of the way they were portraying the character at first but it grew on me over the seasons. Do you watch 'Gotham' and what are your thoughts on the show? There are only two more episodes left and it has been confirmed we are going to see Bruce as Batman in the final episode and Barbara Gordon which will be set in the future. No I haven’t watched Gotham, but I’m not much of a TV person anyway.
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Post by moviemouth on Apr 14, 2019 15:51:57 GMT
I have never read the comic books, but many fans of the comic books say that Nolan's versions are easily the closest the the comic books from a writing standpoint. Though I think they are mostly based only on Batman: Year One, The Killing Joke and The Long Halloween. I am very familiar with the animated series though and Nolan's versions are easily the closest to that imo. I am old enough to remember the hype of Batman Forever btw, but looking back it is hard to understand why any adult actually liked it. The only thing it really gets right is giving Bruce Wayne a little more development and it is closer to the comic books than Burton's versions. Two-Face for example is very poorly written, Chris O'Donnell is horribly miscast, the movie is too colorful and Riddler's plan makes very little sense and Commissioner Gordon is once again treated like a third-tier character and a buffoon. It is certainly better than Batman & Robin, but it is far from being a good movie. The three biggest problems I have always had with the Nolan movies are.
1) World's Greatest Detective vs Vigilante
In the majority of the Batman comic books Batman is a Detective who works with the GCPD to take down criminals and he is seen as a hero by many people who live in Gotham City and not a feared vigilante on the run from the law. Not to mention Batman is also supposed to be a highly skilled martial artist and we see just what he is capable of in the comic books, Arkham games and animated movies but all the live action movies have failed to show this and the fight scenes have all been very crappy compared to how good of a fighter Batman is supposed to be.
2) Team Leader vs Lone Vigilante
In the majority of Batman comic books Batman is a team leader. NOT a lone vigilante and there have been many members of the Bat Family such as Batgirl, Nightwing, The Spoiler, Red Robin, Orphan, Batwoman, Bluebird, Azrael, Flamebird/Hawkfire, Batwing, Clayface etc etc and many of these characters have played a very large part in the comic books over the decades. It was Bob Kane who once said a Batman without a Robin was like Sherlock Holmes without Watson and DC have even acknowledged the success of the Bat Family members has been one of the main things that have helped Batman remain popular for so many years and many fans bought Batman comic books to read the stories about the Bat Family characters. The success of these characters lead to many having their own spinoff series like Batgirl, Nightwing, Batwoman, Birds of Prey, Teen Titans, Red Hood and the Outlaws etc and in terms of comic book sales Dick Grayson (Nightwing/Robin/Grayson) is the third biggest selling DC character of all time below Superman and Batman. It is hard to see a franchise which is missing the majority of the characters as a proper adaption.
3) Based In the Real World
A lot of Batman's best villains are of the supernatural variety like Killer Croc, Clayface, Poison Ivy, Solomon Grundy, Mr Freeze, Bane, Man Bat, the Demon Three etc and basing it in the real world made it impossible for the writers to use them. Even Christopher Nolan later said this was a mistake 'cause there were characters he wanted to use that he couldn't fit into the real world and Killer Croc was one of them.
That being said I can see why some people like the movies and I am not saying they are horrible movies but as a longtime fan of the comic books especially the Bat Family characters I found them to be lousy adaptions and I personally think the best adaptions of Batman we have had so far have been the Arkham games which had Batman as the World's Greatest Detective working with the GCPD, featured some Bat Family characters (we even got a Batgirl game) and had him facing a lot of his supernatural villains and a large part of that was 'cause Paul Dini who was an experienced Batman writer.
I understand your issue with them better now, but obviously as someone who doesn't read comic books all of that stuff doesn't matter to me. All of what you said above would only apply to people who have read the comic books. What are your thoughts on the many comic book fans who still love Nolan's versions?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2019 8:12:45 GMT
Okay. That's fair. I didn't mind Jim Carrey as the Riddler that much and thought he was funny in some parts of the movie but I think the best adaption of the Riddler to date has been the one in the 'Arkham' games and would love to see a version like that in live action and I have also enjoyed watching the Riddler in 'Gotham' and wasn't a big fan of the way they were portraying the character at first but it grew on me over the seasons. Do you watch 'Gotham' and what are your thoughts on the show? There are only two more episodes left and it has been confirmed we are going to see Bruce as Batman in the final episode and Barbara Gordon which will be set in the future. No I haven’t watched Gotham, but I’m not much of a TV person anyway. That's surprising. You are missing out on a lot of good TV shows. Maybe you will change your mind one day and give some of them a chance. We often watch more TV Shows than movies here 'cause they last longer and I don't know if you have heard of '24' but if you like Action movies each season of that is like one big long Action movie that keeps going. As a Horror fan I would recommend you check out 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer' and 'Angel' one day 'cause those were two of the best Horror shows of all time. Do you watch any sports? We love wrestling and the WSL (World Surf League) and we also watch horse racing sometimes.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2019 8:22:29 GMT
The three biggest problems I have always had with the Nolan movies are.
1) World's Greatest Detective vs Vigilante
In the majority of the Batman comic books Batman is a Detective who works with the GCPD to take down criminals and he is seen as a hero by many people who live in Gotham City and not a feared vigilante on the run from the law. Not to mention Batman is also supposed to be a highly skilled martial artist and we see just what he is capable of in the comic books, Arkham games and animated movies but all the live action movies have failed to show this and the fight scenes have all been very crappy compared to how good of a fighter Batman is supposed to be.
2) Team Leader vs Lone Vigilante
In the majority of Batman comic books Batman is a team leader. NOT a lone vigilante and there have been many members of the Bat Family such as Batgirl, Nightwing, The Spoiler, Red Robin, Orphan, Batwoman, Bluebird, Azrael, Flamebird/Hawkfire, Batwing, Clayface etc etc and many of these characters have played a very large part in the comic books over the decades. It was Bob Kane who once said a Batman without a Robin was like Sherlock Holmes without Watson and DC have even acknowledged the success of the Bat Family members has been one of the main things that have helped Batman remain popular for so many years and many fans bought Batman comic books to read the stories about the Bat Family characters. The success of these characters lead to many having their own spinoff series like Batgirl, Nightwing, Batwoman, Birds of Prey, Teen Titans, Red Hood and the Outlaws etc and in terms of comic book sales Dick Grayson (Nightwing/Robin/Grayson) is the third biggest selling DC character of all time below Superman and Batman. It is hard to see a franchise which is missing the majority of the characters as a proper adaption.
3) Based In the Real World
A lot of Batman's best villains are of the supernatural variety like Killer Croc, Clayface, Poison Ivy, Solomon Grundy, Mr Freeze, Bane, Man Bat, the Demon Three etc and basing it in the real world made it impossible for the writers to use them. Even Christopher Nolan later said this was a mistake 'cause there were characters he wanted to use that he couldn't fit into the real world and Killer Croc was one of them.
That being said I can see why some people like the movies and I am not saying they are horrible movies but as a longtime fan of the comic books especially the Bat Family characters I found them to be lousy adaptions and I personally think the best adaptions of Batman we have had so far have been the Arkham games which had Batman as the World's Greatest Detective working with the GCPD, featured some Bat Family characters (we even got a Batgirl game) and had him facing a lot of his supernatural villains and a large part of that was 'cause Paul Dini who was an experienced Batman writer.
I understand your issue with them better now, but obviously as someone who doesn't read comic books all of that stuff doesn't matter to me. All of what you said above would only apply to people who have read the comic books. What are your thoughts on the many comic book fans who still love Nolan's versions? No. People who don't follow the comic books regularly are least likely to pick up on any major differences when it comes to movie and TV adaptions of characters like Batman and it is like Superman in movies and Superman in movies and a lot of people who have only watched the movies think he is too overpowered and the only thing that can hurt him is Kryptonite and his only villain is Lex Luthor but there are dozens of villains that don't need Kryptonite to hurt or kill Superman 'cause they are just as powerful and in some cases even more powerful and Imperiex is a good example of this and he was so powerful and was going to destroy the entire universe and Superman and the rest of the 'Justice League' were nowhere near as powerful enough to defeat him so they teamed up with other villains like Braniac, Doomsday and Darksied to stop him 'cause they didn't want the universe being destroyed either. Sadly Hollywood have largely failed to bring a lot of Superman's other villains to screen which is why I think the two best adaptions of 'Superman' have been 'Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman' and 'Smallville.' As for the Nolan movies I have friends who are longtime fans of the comic books that like them too and I don't mind if people like them but even they say it was a mistake leaving the Bat Family out especially Dick and Barbara.
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