londonbird
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Post by londonbird on Apr 7, 2017 8:15:22 GMT
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chasallnut
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Post by chasallnut on Apr 7, 2017 9:25:53 GMT
Yeah, I thought that (great book and film - original of course). Then I thought how really she is the victim. |
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Post by Marv on Apr 7, 2017 9:39:26 GMT
Yeah, I thought that (great book and film - original of course). Then I thought how really she is the victim. Victim of bullying...but perpetrator of murder. Which one sounds more villainous? |
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Post by Marv on Apr 7, 2017 9:40:32 GMT
I'd probably say her mother was a more qualified villain. |
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Post by sjg on Apr 7, 2017 9:42:18 GMT
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chasallnut
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Post by chasallnut on Apr 7, 2017 10:30:53 GMT
Yeah, I thought that (great book and film - original of course). Then I thought how really she is the victim. Victim of bullying...but perpetrator of murder. Which one sounds more villainous? Come on, tell me you don't have sympathy for her? Bullying was just a part of what she had to contend with. She was punished incessantly by her whackadoodle mother for no good reason. Cut off from any social exposure and made to feel unworthy. The straw and camel's back was the incident at the prom that saw the only person that showed her any real respect killed as part of a hate prank and her completely humiliated, in the manner of her previously most embarrassing event. So yes victim, not to say that she didn't kill innocent people, but certainly diminished responsibility. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2017 10:46:56 GMT
Victim of bullying...but perpetrator of murder. Which one sounds more villainous? Come on, tell me you don't have sympathy for her? Bullying was just a part of what she had to contend with. She was punished incessantly by her whackadoodle mother for no good reason. Cut off from any social exposure and made to feel unworthy. The straw and camel's back was the incident at the prom that saw the only person that showed her any real respect killed as part of a hate prank and her completely humiliated, in the manner of her previously most embarrassing event. So yes victim, not to say that she didn't kill innocent people, but certainly diminished responsibility. Margaret White = Ada Lovelace.  My vote for favourite King villain would be Harold Lauder of the Stand. Mainly because he doesn't realise he's a villain until it's to late. He shares parallels with Michael Douglas character D-fens in the film Falling Down. When mortally wounded by Robert Duvall he asks in perplexed wonderment: "I'm the bad guy?" www.youtube.com/results?search_query=i%27m+the+bad+guy+falling+down |
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londonbird
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Post by londonbird on Apr 7, 2017 10:55:15 GMT
I'd probably say her mother was a more qualified villain. In the book absolutely. I actually meant the film not the character. |
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londonbird
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Post by londonbird on Apr 7, 2017 10:58:09 GMT
Yeah, I thought that (great book and film - original of course). Then I thought how really she is the victim. Loved the book. Felt the original film was a let down as I hated the way she killed her mum in the film. Loved it in the book. Only saving grace was John travolta! |
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Post by Marv on Apr 7, 2017 11:11:42 GMT
Victim of bullying...but perpetrator of murder. Which one sounds more villainous? Come on, tell me you don't have sympathy for her? Bullying was just a part of what she had to contend with. She was punished incessantly by her whackadoodle mother for no good reason. Cut off from any social exposure and made to feel unworthy. The straw and camel's back was the incident at the prom that saw the only person that showed her any real respect killed as part of a hate prank and her completely humiliated, in the manner of her previously most embarrassing event. So yes victim, not to say that she didn't kill innocent people, but certainly diminished responsibility. Having sympathy for her for being bullied and abused doesn't justify her later actions. It doesn't really make her the hero no matter what the level of satisfaction we get from her slaughter. This isn't like the Punisher mowing down criminals in the street. These were high school kids. She was a victim of bullying and abuse sure...but she ceases to remain the victim when she slaughters a high school. |
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chasallnut
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Post by chasallnut on Apr 7, 2017 11:18:44 GMT
Yeah, I thought that (great book and film - original of course). Then I thought how really she is the victim. Loved the book. Felt the original film was a let down as I hated the way she killed her mum in the film. Loved it in the book. Only saving grace was John travolta! Ooh controversial   I loved the original film. The way she kills her mum in the book is terrific but visually it wouldn't have been the same, so that said I loved the way she did it in the film. Hated the remake. Incidentally, I'm not dissing the book, I think it is terrific. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Apr 7, 2017 11:22:20 GMT
I can't think of Carrie as being worse than the others (Except maybe mathematically Jack Torrance who basically snapped too but killed less people).
Empathy may not determine whether someone is a villain but level of empathy does impact the level of villainy and a lot of people in the poll do things solely because they are evil, agents of evil, or evil incarnate.
Carrie gets a pass imo.
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chasallnut
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Post by chasallnut on Apr 7, 2017 11:23:25 GMT
Come on, tell me you don't have sympathy for her? Bullying was just a part of what she had to contend with. She was punished incessantly by her whackadoodle mother for no good reason. Cut off from any social exposure and made to feel unworthy. The straw and camel's back was the incident at the prom that saw the only person that showed her any real respect killed as part of a hate prank and her completely humiliated, in the manner of her previously most embarrassing event. So yes victim, not to say that she didn't kill innocent people, but certainly diminished responsibility. Having sympathy for her for being bullied and abused doesn't justify her later actions. It doesn't really make her the hero no matter what the level of satisfaction we get from her slaughter. This isn't like the Punisher mowing down criminals in the street. These were high school kids. She was a victim of bullying and abuse sure...but she ceases to remain the victim when she slaughters a high school. Hmmm where did I say she was a hero?? In fact the novel touches on the fact that the teacher and principal feel they should have done more to for Carrie to prevent this happening. |
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Post by Marv on Apr 7, 2017 13:05:18 GMT
I can't think of Carrie as being worse than the others (Except maybe mathematically Jack Torrance who basically snapped too but killed less people). Empathy may not determine whether someone is a villain but level of empathy does impact the level of villainy and a lot of people in the poll do things solely because they are evil, agents of evil, or evil incarnate. Carrie gets a pass imo. In the novel Jack is more or less a hero in the end. He causes the hotel to blow up and kind of redeems himself in his final acts. Also...like the kid from Christine, he's possessed by an evil entity and not really himself. |
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Post by Marv on Apr 7, 2017 13:07:18 GMT
Having sympathy for her for being bullied and abused doesn't justify her later actions. It doesn't really make her the hero no matter what the level of satisfaction we get from her slaughter. This isn't like the Punisher mowing down criminals in the street. These were high school kids. She was a victim of bullying and abuse sure...but she ceases to remain the victim when she slaughters a high school. Hmmm where did I say she was a hero?? In fact the novel touches on the fact that the teacher and principal feel they should have done more to for Carrie to prevent this happening. I guess I just can't justify her actions no matter how horribly she was bullied by her classmates or abused by her mother. By that I mean not even a little bit. Not saying I don't understand them, but I am not willing to diminish her responsibility for the deaths of however many people. |
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chasallnut
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Post by chasallnut on Apr 7, 2017 13:12:47 GMT
Hmmm where did I say she was a hero?? In fact the novel touches on the fact that the teacher and principal feel they should have done more to for Carrie to prevent this happening. I guess I just can't justify her actions no matter how horribly she was bullied by her classmates or abused by her mother. By that I mean not even a little bit. Not saying I don't understand them, but I am not willing to diminish her responsibility for the deaths of however many people. Fair enough. You do know that there is a legal defence (in English Law, not sure it applies in American Law) of diminished responsibility. I would have said she was mentally unstable before the final trigger tipped her over. |
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Post by Marv on Apr 7, 2017 13:18:29 GMT
Oh yea she was crazy for sure. But I'd wager the amount of people that go on mass killing sprees and are completely mentally stable is a very short list.
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chasallnut
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Post by chasallnut on Apr 7, 2017 13:25:31 GMT
Oh yea she was crazy for sure. But I'd wager the amount of people that go on mass killing sprees and are completely mentally stable is a very short list. I agree. I was going to raise that point. The problem with Carrie was she was the weapon so she was unstable already with the weapon. Remove her "powers", and now she goes to the local gun store to buy a gun. She would probably qualify for one and scenario is the same. I don't know the USA gun laws but sure seems right to me that a person has to at least be of current sound mind to obtain a gun. And unintentionally I will have probably sparked a whole gun debate!!! Hmmm or was that you  |
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Post by cupcakes on Apr 7, 2017 14:07:07 GMT
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"Somebody tell the retard to let it go. But... He's got that crazy retard grip."