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Post by charzhino on Apr 15, 2019 11:25:48 GMT
Reading this Guardian article shocked me a little that in 2020 we will be entering the first year since 2002 that we will not have had a premier comic book movie featuring an A-lister superhero. If Endgame is indeed the end for the original Avengers then for atleast 2020 to 2022 we will not have any iteration of:
Hulk, Iron Man, Captain America, X-men/Wolverine, Spiderman, Batman*, Superman
*Matt Reeves The Batman is scheduled to come out in 2021 but could easily be delayed again
With probability of Chris Evans, Downey Jr, Hemsworth and Ruffolo leaving their roles after Endgame, Jackman retired as Wolverine, Fassbender/ McAvoy forced to quit Magneto/Xavier, Affleck retired as Batman, Cavil probably retired as Superman can the B-listers in the likes of Aquaman and Black Panther carry the genre for atleast 2-4 years until we get re-casts (X-men may take 5 years according to reports) or reboots of Superman, Batman.
Spiderman will be around but can his global appeal carry the weight on his own.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Apr 15, 2019 11:40:19 GMT
Honestly I like that characters like Doctor Strange, Aquaman, Ant-Man, Shazam, Wonder Woman and Black Panther got their own films. Especially Wonder Woman who was way overdue for a film.
Growing up I mostly just had the Batman and Superman films and it really wasn't until Blade that it seem like no other studio had any real interest in adapting other characters that aren't exactly well known. So it's actually pretty cool to see that happening now.
I know that the genre is over saturated but at least we're getting more than just Batman and Superman.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 15, 2019 11:57:07 GMT
Interesting. Everyone kept saying Iron Man and Cap weren't A-listers before their respective films, so I don't know how valid this observation is.
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Post by Vassaggo on Apr 15, 2019 12:02:07 GMT
Reading this Guardian article shocked me a little that in 2020 we will be entering the first year since 2002 that we will not have had a premier comic book movie featuring an A-lister superhero. If Endgame is indeed the end for the original Avengers then for atleast 2020 to 2022 we will not have any iteration of:
Hulk, Iron Man, Captain America, X-men/Wolverine, Spiderman, Batman*, Superman
*Matt Reeves The Batman is scheduled to come out in 2021 but could easily be delayed again
With probability of Chris Evans, Downey Jr, Hemsworth and Ruffolo leaving their roles after Endgame, Jackman retired as Wolverine, Fassbender/ McAvoy forced to quit Magneto/Xavier, Affleck retired as Batman, Cavil probably retired as Superman can the B-listers in the likes of Aquaman and Black Panther carry the genre for atleast 2-4 years until we get re-casts (X-men may take 5 years according to reports) or reboots of Superman, Batman.
Spiderman will be around but can his global appeal carry the weight on his own. And Spiderman isn't a gimmie. The Deal Marvel Studios worked out with Sony to share him ends after End Game and Far From Home. They'll have to work out another deal, I think. I'd have to look it up, but I'm pretty sure I read that. It's not all dark clouds though. I posit using B and C characters is one of the reasons MCU worked. They didn't have to live up to the pressure of the Iconic Nature that The DCEU did especially and X-men/Spider-man to a lesser degree. Now Marvel will have to see if they can pull another rabbit out of the hat and do it again with lesser knowns. (With out the structural integrity that Ironman, Cap, Thor, and Hulk supplied.) Now, don't take for granted how lowly those pillars were. We knew about them, but the general population? Not so much. So It's not impossible for them to do it again. This would be the perfect time to retract a little bit to regroup if you are Marvel Studios. Do the work and plan out X-men/FF while making smaller stories with the B's (maybe A-'s) they've made out of B-'s and C's. Introducing and evolving more c's to b's. That way you can have every thing firing on all cylinders when X-men, FF, and DD come back to the screen. They have to wait 2 years but DD, Kingpin, and the rest of Defenders can be used then. (Not saying those characters and those actors will show up, but they would be a fool to missuse DD again) This would also be the perfect time for DCEU or just DC (I say scrap the Universe as a whole now) to resurge. I've been saying it for what seems like a decade, but they have good books/stories, they have good characters, they have good settings. Not only that but they have great access to good people writing, directing, producing and starring for WB. There is no reason for them not to have more success than they've had. (It is turning around though. WW and AM show that. I was just hoping for more of an impact on BO and Pop Culture for Shazam. It wasn't a straight misfire, but I was hoping for more.) It just boggles the mind how much wealth of imagination, story, and well just cash that WB has and can't make it pay off better than they have. Especially when you see what Marvel Studios did with less. Which brings me back full circle. Maybe having so much going for them instead of trying to think around problems they just bull rushed through. Sometimes the lack of opportunity breeds creativity.
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Post by charzhino on Apr 15, 2019 12:49:57 GMT
Interesting. Everyone kept saying Iron Man and Cap weren't A-listers before their respective films, so I don't know how valid this observation is.
Maybe they were not at the time of their movies but they are still recognizable names having had popular cartoons about them and even previous movies (Captain America 1990). Even if they were not outright A-listers, they had other popular super hero movies coming out around them to sustain popularity of comic book movies. Dark Knight came out same year as Ironman 1
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Post by charzhino on Apr 15, 2019 12:54:41 GMT
It's not all dark clouds though. I posit using B and C characters is one of the reasons MCU worked. But it was all leading up to a crossover in Avengers IW and Endgame. Were people genuinely exciited about Dr Strange or Antman, or rather the anticipation of how they would interact with the more popular Avengers in crossovers. Yes. Although I would have liked to see Snyders 5 part plan come off and see how it worked.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 15, 2019 12:57:03 GMT
Interesting. Everyone kept saying Iron Man and Cap weren't A-listers before their respective films, so I don't know how valid this observation is.
Maybe they were not at the time of their movies but they are still recognizable names having had popular cartoons about them and even previous movies (Captain America 1990). Even if they were not outright A-listers, they had other popular super hero movies coming out around them to sustain popularity of comic book movies. Dark Knight came out same year as Ironman 1
I see this as a tremendous opportunity. Marvel can rely on their brand in order to take some chances with offbeat stories and lesser known characters. I'm very excited for Eternals.
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Post by merh on Apr 15, 2019 12:59:57 GMT
Interesting. Everyone kept saying Iron Man and Cap weren't A-listers before their respective films, so I don't know how valid this observation is. Marvel sold their A-list under Perlmutter. Marvel top tier is Spidey, Fantastic Four & X-Men & it's interesting how they have been ridden into the ground by the companies that licensed them. Cap was about to be sold to WB when Marvel Studios launched & he was kept. Thor, Cap, IM, Hulk, Hawkeye, Widow are all heroes who have struggled to sell comics. Spidey had 4 titles when I was buying in the 80s. X-Men had several. FF is like Marvel's charter team, the one Lee created when he started Marvel. Wonder Woman is top tier. She is not a B-List.
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Post by Vassaggo on Apr 15, 2019 13:05:01 GMT
It's not all dark clouds though. I posit using B and C characters is one of the reasons MCU worked. But it was all leading up to a crossover in Avengers IW and Endgame. Were people genuinely exciited about Dr Strange or Antman, or rather the anticipation of how they would interact with the more popular Avengers in crossovers. Yes. Although I would have liked to see Snyders 5 part plan come off and see how it worked. Oh yeah the lesser's got pulled up along with the tide of the core. That core had to built up from pretty much scratch though. 20 years ago I don't think I knew 3 people who knew who Ironman was. The good thing here is they used the equity they built into Cap, Thor, Ironman, etc paid off with Strange, Antman, GotG, etc. I don't think all the core Avengers are going to die in End Game so we still might have a Thor or Hulk. I think that equity they built and transferred to the other characters can get them along for a few years. Enough time to get X-men/FF movies. I also like the idea of putting random FF members in MCU movies pre-powered. I would love to see an accurate Doom in story. Use other peoples movies to weave him to becoming Dr. Doom. The retraction of MCU popularity is a given, I just think they should use it well and organically. I am intrigued by Snyder's 5 movie plan, but fuck BvS. It should've been MoS 2. There were some things I didn't like about MoS, but it was a solid foundation. Tweak it here and there in the next one keeping the tone, but maybe taking the foot off the Emo Pedal a bit. Snyder went another way. We will never know. I think Snyder would benefit from someone like Fiege above him. Not in charge perse but some one to bounce ideas off of to guide.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 15, 2019 13:08:26 GMT
Interesting. Everyone kept saying Iron Man and Cap weren't A-listers before their respective films, so I don't know how valid this observation is. Marvel sold their A-list under Perlmutter. Marvel top tier is Spidey, Fantastic Four & X-Men & it's interesting how they have been ridden into the ground by the companies that licensed them. Cap was about to be sold to WB when Marvel Studios launched & he was kept. Thor, Cap, IM, Hulk, Hawkeye, Widow are all heroes who have struggled to sell comics. Spidey had 4 titles when I was buying in the 80s. X-Men had several. FF is like Marvel's charter team, the one Lee created when he started Marvel. Wonder Woman is top tier. She is not a B-List. I just think it's funny that the complaint used to be that IM, Cap etc. weren't A-list characters. They were to me, but then I was always an Avengers fan when I was buying comics in the late 80s/early 90s. Cap and Iron Man both had cartoons back in the day, Cap even had a few terrible live action films. Hulk was an enormously famous character thanks to the tv show. The X-Men were certainly the trendier titles when I was a kid but it's not like these guys were nobodies. In that regard, the MCU has worked out really well for me, because I would've preferred Avengers films to X-Men, anyway.
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Post by Vassaggo on Apr 15, 2019 13:08:30 GMT
Interesting. Everyone kept saying Iron Man and Cap weren't A-listers before their respective films, so I don't know how valid this observation is. Marvel sold their A-list under Perlmutter. Marvel top tier is Spidey, Fantastic Four & X-Men & it's interesting how they have been ridden into the ground by the companies that licensed them. Cap was about to be sold to WB when Marvel Studios launched & he was kept. Thor, Cap, IM, Hulk, Hawkeye, Widow are all heroes who have struggled to sell comics. Spidey had 4 titles when I was buying in the 80s. X-Men had several. FF is like Marvel's charter team, the one Lee created when he started Marvel. Wonder Woman is top tier. She is not a B-List. Perlmutter is a misogynist, racist, cheep dick but if he didn't sell those rights away there may not have been a Marvel for Fiege to work for and make Marvel Studios. So he deserves some credit for keeping the boat a float as a money man. While the creatives got to work. Still don't change the fact he's a dick though.
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Post by charzhino on Apr 15, 2019 13:12:19 GMT
Oh yeah the lesser's got pulled up along with the tide of the core. That core had to built up from pretty much scratch though. 20 years ago I don't think I knew 3 people who knew who Ironman was. The good thing here is they used the equity they built into Cap, Thor, Ironman, etc paid off with Strange, Antman, GotG, etc. I don't think all the core Avengers are going to die in End Game so we still might have a Thor or Hulk. I think that equity they built and transferred to the other characters can get them along for a few years. Enough time to get X-men/FF movies. I also like the idea of putting random FF members in MCU movies pre-powered. I would love to see an accurate Doom in story. Use other peoples movies to weave him to becoming Dr. Doom. The retraction of MCU popularity is a given, I just think they should use it well and organically. We might still have Thor around but Hulk is unlikely. His chemistry with the newer Avengers is a bit off, he plays off Stark and Rogers well and Thor if hes still around. Well Waltar Hamada is supposed to be the head honcho at DC but evidently not a very well organised one. MoS2 should have been made instead of BvS, which was only made to beat Marvel to the punch with Civil War.
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Post by merh on Apr 15, 2019 13:12:29 GMT
It's not all dark clouds though. I posit using B and C characters is one of the reasons MCU worked. But it was all leading up to a crossover in Avengers IW and Endgame. Were people genuinely exciited about Dr Strange or Antman, or rather the anticipation of how they would interact with the more popular Avengers in crossovers. Feige has wanted a Dr. Strange movie from the start. He may not be an A-lister, but he is popular amongst Marvel heroes. Those who like him seem to really like him. I discovered him in Defenders & branched over to his book. Marvel has always thrown their heroes around into other books. Forget Avengers, etc, or the Team-Up series, it hasnt been uncommon for different heroes to show up in a fellow hero's book which always served as advertisement for the character. DC seemed more rigid about heroes visiting other titles.
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Post by Vassaggo on Apr 15, 2019 13:47:50 GMT
Oh yeah the lesser's got pulled up along with the tide of the core. That core had to built up from pretty much scratch though. 20 years ago I don't think I knew 3 people who knew who Ironman was. The good thing here is they used the equity they built into Cap, Thor, Ironman, etc paid off with Strange, Antman, GotG, etc. I don't think all the core Avengers are going to die in End Game so we still might have a Thor or Hulk. I think that equity they built and transferred to the other characters can get them along for a few years. Enough time to get X-men/FF movies. I also like the idea of putting random FF members in MCU movies pre-powered. I would love to see an accurate Doom in story. Use other peoples movies to weave him to becoming Dr. Doom. The retraction of MCU popularity is a given, I just think they should use it well and organically. We might still have Thor around but Hulk is unlikely. His chemistry with the newer Avengers is a bit off, he plays off Stark and Rogers well and Thor if hes still around. Well Waltar Hamada is supposed to be the head honcho at DC but evidently not a very well organised one. MoS2 should have been made instead of BvS, which was only made to beat Marvel to the punch with Civil War. Yeah Waltar Hamada and WB as a whole was playing the puck where it was. They didn't go where the puck was going to be. (to paraphrase Kevin Smith paraphrasing Walter Greskey's Dad)
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Post by politicidal on Apr 15, 2019 14:07:17 GMT
Fairly certain Black Panther was hardly considered a B-lister.
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Post by havenless on Apr 15, 2019 15:39:53 GMT
There will be another Avengers/Spider-Man movie before 2023. That would be a 4 year gap for both franchises which has never happened for avengers nor for spider-man since Raimi.
Sony has said they’re better interested in extending the marvel deal, I’d expect some kind of announcement with the slate reveal after Far from home. Especially if Far from home makes 800+m again, it wouldn’t make any sense not to extend that deal.
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Post by Skaathar on Apr 15, 2019 16:15:15 GMT
Depends what you mean by "A-list superhero". If you're basing this on pre-MCU then Ironman, Thor and Captain America are not A-listers. If you're basing this on current status then Black Panther, Wonder Woman, Aquaman and possibly Dr. strange can definitely be considered A-listers.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2019 17:23:12 GMT
Cliched though it may seem, the MCU really impressed me. I grew up on the X-Men and Spiderman and was only tangentially aware of the Avengers, minus Hulk. They seemed to have an A-list status but a B-list presence in my mind. Even now, I'm really just interested in Chris Evan's Captain America more than Captain America.
So I'm not really worried.
If we're being honest, I don't know if I can survive the catharsis past Endgame. I didn't even watch Antman and the Wasp for weeks after it came out because I was taxed after Infinity War. If I've learned anything, Marvel can take characters from any list and turn them into household names, but it might not be just the time to usher in the next era of heroes; it might be time to usher in the next era of audience. I'm 33 and held on for long enough. Feelings about the MCU are mixed even here, but for my money, it did a great job at creating a narrative, arcs, and story over years. Consider it A-list material for an A-list audience, many of us who grew up with the characters. New characters means new audience for me, and maybe one day, the next audience will be as A-list as us.
These character will always be intriguing, powerful and special to me, but I don't want to be this fixated on a movie universe again for a long time. All good things end.
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Post by charzhino on Apr 15, 2019 17:32:24 GMT
Cliched though it may seem, the MCU really impressed me. I grew up on the X-Men and Spiderman and was only tangentially aware of the Avengers, minus Hulk. They seemed to have an A-list status but a B-list presence in my mind. Even now, I'm really just interested in Chris Evan's Captain America more than Captain America.
So I'm not really worried.
If we're being honest, I don't know if I can survive the catharsis past Endgame. I didn't even watch Antman and the Wasp for weeks after it came out because I was taxed after Infinity War. If I've learned anything, Marvel can take characters from any list and turn them into household names, but it might not be just the time to usher in the next era of heroes; it might be time to usher in the next era of audience. I'm 33 and held on for long enough. Feelings about the MCU are mixed even here, but for my money, it did a great job at creating a narrative, arcs, and story over years. Consider it A-list material for an A-list audience, many of us who grew up with the characters. New characters means new audience for me, and maybe one day, the next audience will be as A-list as us.
These character will always be intriguing, powerful and special to me, but I don't want to be this fixated on a movie universe again for a long time. All good things end.
Well said
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2019 17:39:11 GMT
Cliched though it may seem, the MCU really impressed me. I grew up on the X-Men and Spiderman and was only tangentially aware of the Avengers, minus Hulk. They seemed to have an A-list status but a B-list presence in my mind. Even now, I'm really just interested in Chris Evan's Captain America more than Captain America.
So I'm not really worried.
If we're being honest, I don't know if I can survive the catharsis past Endgame. I didn't even watch Antman and the Wasp for weeks after it came out because I was taxed after Infinity War. If I've learned anything, Marvel can take characters from any list and turn them into household names, but it might not be just the time to usher in the next era of heroes; it might be time to usher in the next era of audience. I'm 33 and held on for long enough. Feelings about the MCU are mixed even here, but for my money, it did a great job at creating a narrative, arcs, and story over years. Consider it A-list material for an A-list audience, many of us who grew up with the characters. New characters means new audience for me, and maybe one day, the next audience will be as A-list as us.
These character will always be intriguing, powerful and special to me, but I don't want to be this fixated on a movie universe again for a long time. All good things end.
Well said Thank you.
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