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Post by Arlon10 on May 3, 2019 12:07:42 GMT
It doesn't have to provide anything lately. Too many people accept as "science" almost anything claiming to be. I gave a recent example of mind reading. Perhaps you are not paying attention to the news. There are lots of things in politics that are a problem because people believe science has answers it does not. You perhaps need to get out more. Your concept of "religion" is terribly distorted. Do you think Trump followers are "religious"? They are definitely not. They just want to be rulers. They'll take any excuse they can get away with. Since they are incapable of science they'll take whatever they think they can get instead, like nationalism. They don't actually try religion because they don't have any themselves. You have what religion "fails" to do wrong in the example of the birdhouse/lawn sprinkler/badminton court scenario. It does not force any decision on anyone, that much is true. That however is not a failing. It doesn't try to force a decision on anyone. People who believe in science do try to force decisions on others in the name of science, but without real science to support them. You are still trying to be the "boss" (or a low ranking soldier for the boss) through science and still can't see how futile that is. You had obvious difficulty understanding artistic (not literal) representations of a god. In your latest reply you actually assumed people incapable of science can somehow manage it. That isn't working, and you shouldn't be surprised. If there are many people that confuse Youtube videos and other sources of pseudo-science, that doesn't change the qualities of real science or the level of faith required to engage in it. If people believe that they don't need to concern themselves with the latest measles outbreak it isn't because the science is faulty. My point stands that science requires far less faith than religion. I haven't brought up Trump's relationship with religion, but as long as you mention it, one of Trump's most important constituents is the American religious right, with leaders like Franklin Graham constantly defending the President. Perhaps you can argue that Billy Graham's son is a complete hypocrite but are you prepared to claim that all or even many of the religious right are insincere in their beliefs in God? So you say "people who believe in science do try to force decisions on others in the name of science". Do you mean all of them or some fraction? And you think that science followers try to force decisions more than religion followers? Now that's a good one! If you are such a fan of facts and reason maybe you start using some for a change. You will find that atheists and Christians have higher divorce rates, are less well educated and earn less income than people in most religions on the whole. A few exceptional Christians with better education, wages and lower divorce rates might be found in Catholicism or other especially conservative denominations, still on the whole the atheist and the "evangelical" Christian are going to be the bottom of the pack. There are good reasons why. Most importantly is that they do not read at a very high level as I have made clear to you, explaining that the art on the ceiling of the Sistine chapel is indeed art and not a literal representation of a god. Another significant reason is that they typically have no moral code. At one time on this board would often be seen statistics that showed atheists did better than religious people, but those surveys did not distinguish "Christians" from other religions. If you separate Christians out atheists do not do better. That is the very good reason Trump followers are not promoting religion very well. At the same time, the Democratic Party is misrepresenting science. You are obviously too ignorant of science to realize that, but try to make a case for advances against cancer in the last 20 to 25 years. I suspect you won't be able or will do it wrong. All my life, on my website, on my news column when I had one for six years, on my Facebook pages, I have been trying to explain to people how the conflict between "religion" and "science" is a farce. It is only poor people's notion of religion and other poor people's notion of science that are in conflict. They are "Christians" and "atheists" and they are in conflict because they have no idea what religion and science are. They are less well educated, earn less income and have higher divorce rates than people who actually understand religion and science. They are "grunts" or low ranking soldiers in their fights. They are trying to force their opinions on others because they completely lack any persuasive skills. That means using the government to force behavior, and they tend to dominate politics in both political parties. What destroyed marriage is the government taking over. At one time marriage vows were a promise to never need government oversight of their duties to each other, now marriage vows mean a promise to do what the government says about family management. The government typically mismanages anything it tries to manage, mainly because it is directed by voters who are not qualified to manage anything beyond the scope of government. The government take over totally destroyed the reason for the vows in the first place. Vows mean absolutely nothing because government is going to try to settle things anyway whatever ceremonies you have or not. It will be necessary to recognize once again that divorce is a failure beyond complete repair (by government or otherwise) and thus immoral before atheists and Christians cease their disruptive behavior.
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Post by general313 on May 3, 2019 14:13:23 GMT
<long winded and irrelevant ramblings about divorce rates among Christians and atheists and how government is responsible for the high divorce rate, with some preposterous assertions concerning science and the Democratic party sprinkled in> You're the one that doesn't understand the nature of the relativistic correction necessary to make GPS work accurately and state that there's no experimental evidence for General Relativity and you suggest that I'm the one that's ignorant of science? Just what kind of drugs do they have on Planet Arlon? It's also pretty hysterical that apparently you think the government is responsible for the high divorce rate. Would that include Elizabeth Taylor? And destroying marriage! I haven't noticed any damage to my marriage nor those of my friends and family that are married. I guess the government hasn't been able to reach me or my family and friends.
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Post by Arlon10 on May 3, 2019 21:11:25 GMT
<long winded and irrelevant ramblings about divorce rates among Christians and atheists and how government is responsible for the high divorce rate, with some preposterous assertions concerning science and the Democratic party sprinkled in> You're the one that doesn't understand the nature of the relativistic correction necessary to make GPS work accurately and state that there's no experimental evidence for General Relativity and you suggest that I'm the one that's ignorant of science? Just what kind of drugs do they have on Planet Arlon? It's also pretty hysterical that apparently you think the government is responsible for the high divorce rate. Would that include Elizabeth Taylor? And destroying marriage! I haven't noticed any damage to my marriage nor those of my friends and family that are married. I guess the government hasn't been able to reach me or my family and friends. If you still can't see that both political parties are wrong. If you still can't see that they are dominated by people who are too ignorant of religion and science to manage either one, there is only one explanation, you are too ignorant of religion and science yourself to manage anything, even those things that government ought to manage. I never said there is no evidence for relativity. I only point out that the people who believe in it that I have met don't have any evidence, which you have just confirmed. So it's agreed then, you are not a scientist yourself, you just follow the herd on science. Would you care to elaborate how that won't go terribly wrong one day? That is of course if you don't see it going wrong already.
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Post by goz on May 3, 2019 21:49:06 GMT
<long winded and irrelevant ramblings about divorce rates among Christians and atheists and how government is responsible for the high divorce rate, with some preposterous assertions concerning science and the Democratic party sprinkled in> You're the one that doesn't understand the nature of the relativistic correction necessary to make GPS work accurately and state that there's no experimental evidence for General Relativity and you suggest that I'm the one that's ignorant of science? Just what kind of drugs do they have on Planet Arlon? It's also pretty hysterical that apparently you think the government is responsible for the high divorce rate. Would that include Elizabeth Taylor? And destroying marriage! I haven't noticed any damage to my marriage nor those of my friends and family that are married. I guess the government hasn't been able to reach me or my family and friends. Call me a masochist, however I find Planet Arlon's ravings absolutely fascinating. As I have an interest in psychology, I find his world view to be an absolutely classic case of Dunning Kruger phenomenon. Whilst there are a few others on this Board, he is an absolute doozy, possibly because of his obviously long term and persistent pursuit of telling the world how wrong they all are because they are: 1."You will find that atheists and Christians have higher divorce rates, " 2."are less well educated" 3." earn less income than people in most religions on the whole" 4." Most importantly is that they do not read at a very high level " 5."they typically have no moral code. " 6. "they don't understand science as evidenced by the facts 'but try to make a case for advances against cancer in the last 20 to 25 years' 7."They are trying to force their opinions on others because they completely lack any persuasive skills. " 8."now marriage vows mean a promise to do what the government says about family management" 9." thus immoral before atheists and Christians cease their disruptive behavior." A summary of his rant with verbatim quotes. He has blogs, website and Facebook pages telling everyone how wrong they are and why because he is right. The fact that he is consistently wrong on a factual basis never enters his confused and muddled head. He is old and possibly was reasonably bright at school, 50+ years ago, is probably 'on the spectrum, is convinced that he is the best debater, the most knowledgeable on 'real science', probably never married however is an expert of marriage and divorce, that God 'created ' the world and these modern day children have a right to know and it is only government obstructionism that they are not told 'the Truth' etc etc etc I find his views on the medical profession as his MOST quirky. We even had a long discussion about how he didn't believe that a friend of mine hadn't had a heart lung transplant because he had never seen one in real life ergo 'it couldn't have happened' nad apparently I am unable to comment on 'real science' because I am not a scientist. He, of course, in his Dunning Kruger mindset is the opposite of all that is wrong with the world.
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Post by goz on May 3, 2019 21:51:54 GMT
You're the one that doesn't understand the nature of the relativistic correction necessary to make GPS work accurately and state that there's no experimental evidence for General Relativity and you suggest that I'm the one that's ignorant of science? Just what kind of drugs do they have on Planet Arlon? It's also pretty hysterical that apparently you think the government is responsible for the high divorce rate. Would that include Elizabeth Taylor? And destroying marriage! I haven't noticed any damage to my marriage nor those of my friends and family that are married. I guess the government hasn't been able to reach me or my family and friends. If you still can't see that both political parties are wrong. If you still can't see that they are dominated by people who are too ignorant of religion and science to manage either one, there is only one explanation, you are too ignorant of religion and science yourself to manage anything, even those things that government ought to manage. I never said there is no evidence for relativity. I only point out that the people who believe in it that I have met don't have any evidence, which you have just confirmed. So it's agreed then, you are not a scientist yourself, you just follow the herd on science. Would you care to elaborate how that won't go terribly wrong one day? That is of course if you don't see it going wrong already. Gee, I didn't read this before I posted my reply to the other poster Cham. I now rest my case, Mr Dunning Kruger poster boy! Is no-one really a 'real scientist' except for you?
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Post by Arlon10 on May 3, 2019 22:29:28 GMT
If you still can't see that both political parties are wrong. If you still can't see that they are dominated by people who are too ignorant of religion and science to manage either one, there is only one explanation, you are too ignorant of religion and science yourself to manage anything, even those things that government ought to manage. I never said there is no evidence for relativity. I only point out that the people who believe in it that I have met don't have any evidence, which you have just confirmed. So it's agreed then, you are not a scientist yourself, you just follow the herd on science. Would you care to elaborate how that won't go terribly wrong one day? That is of course if you don't see it going wrong already. Gee, I didn't read this before I posted my reply to the other poster Cham. I now rest my case, Mr Dunning Kruger poster boy! Is no-one really a 'real scientist' except for you? Suppose I have a cousin who has a friend who works as a secretary in a building where many people believe "science" is done. Would you then believe I know science? No? Then why do you expect me to believe you know science? What more than that have you to show you know science? Please examine what you are asking. You are asking me and others to accept as science anything that "most people" believe is science and without seeing the evidence ourselves. You admit that is exactly what you are doing, right? Please notice that it does not work that way. Science is not a democracy, and scientific facts are not determined by votes. Or would you continue to argue that it is? Please admit what you are doing. I have long understood that following authorities without question can save a lot of trouble. I am not a risk taker. That's my point, not yours. I do follow authorities very well in most circumstances. It can happen that I am told to accept something that makes no sense. That however is not an actually authority, that is just you and your herd in movie chat land. You admit you are not the authority yourself. So I am in very good order. I don't do things unless I have a clear idea of the consequences in advance. You apparently do. That's because you have too much faith in your authorities. If they told you it's safe to smoke marijuana you probably would believe them. Many people apparently do. They probably shouldn't.
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Post by general313 on May 3, 2019 23:21:15 GMT
You're the one that doesn't understand the nature of the relativistic correction necessary to make GPS work accurately and state that there's no experimental evidence for General Relativity and you suggest that I'm the one that's ignorant of science? Just what kind of drugs do they have on Planet Arlon? It's also pretty hysterical that apparently you think the government is responsible for the high divorce rate. Would that include Elizabeth Taylor? And destroying marriage! I haven't noticed any damage to my marriage nor those of my friends and family that are married. I guess the government hasn't been able to reach me or my family and friends. Call me a masochist, however I find Planet Arlon's ravings absolutely fascinating. As I have an interest in psychology, I find his world view to be an absolutely classic case of Dunning Kruger phenomenon. Whilst there are a few others on this Board, he is an absolute doozy, possibly because of his obviously long term and persistent pursuit of telling the world how wrong they all are because they are: 1."You will find that atheists and Christians have higher divorce rates, " 2."are less well educated" 3." earn less income than people in most religions on the whole" 4." Most importantly is that they do not read at a very high level " 5."they typically have no moral code. " 6. "they don't understand science as evidenced by the facts 'but try to make a case for advances against cancer in the last 20 to 25 years' 7."They are trying to force their opinions on others because they completely lack any persuasive skills. " 8."now marriage vows mean a promise to do what the government says about family management" 9." thus immoral before atheists and Christians cease their disruptive behavior." A summary of his rant with verbatim quotes. He has blogs, website and Facebook pages telling everyone how wrong they are and why because he is right. The fact that he is consistently wrong on a factual basis never enters his confused and muddled head. He is old and possibly was reasonably bright at school, 50+ years ago, is probably 'on the spectrum, is convinced that he is the best debater, the most knowledgeable on 'real science', probably never married however is an expert of marriage and divorce, that God 'created ' the world and these modern day children have a right to know and it is only government obstructionism that they are not told 'the Truth' etc etc etc I find his views on the medical profession as his MOST quirky. We even had a long discussion about how he didn't believe that a friend of mine hadn't had a heart lung transplant because he had never seen one in real life ergo 'it couldn't have happened' nad apparently I am unable to comment on 'real science' because I am not a scientist. He, of course, in his Dunning Kruger mindset is the opposite of all that is wrong with the world. +ArlonMode How would you know if your friend had a heart lung transplant without being a doctor? You're just following the herd! -ArlonMode
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Post by general313 on May 3, 2019 23:47:47 GMT
You're the one that doesn't understand the nature of the relativistic correction necessary to make GPS work accurately and state that there's no experimental evidence for General Relativity and you suggest that I'm the one that's ignorant of science? Just what kind of drugs do they have on Planet Arlon? It's also pretty hysterical that apparently you think the government is responsible for the high divorce rate. Would that include Elizabeth Taylor? And destroying marriage! I haven't noticed any damage to my marriage nor those of my friends and family that are married. I guess the government hasn't been able to reach me or my family and friends. If you still can't see that both political parties are wrong. If you still can't see that they are dominated by people who are too ignorant of religion and science to manage either one, there is only one explanation, you are too ignorant of religion and science yourself to manage anything, even those things that government ought to manage. I never said there is no evidence for relativity. I only point out that the people who believe in it that I have met don't have any evidence, which you have just confirmed. So it's agreed then, you are not a scientist yourself, you just follow the herd on science. Would you care to elaborate how that won't go terribly wrong one day? That is of course if you don't see it going wrong already. I'll repeat what I said in a reply to you (replying to Goz about not being a scientist): It's like saying that one can't understand sports or politics unless one is an athlete or politician. Your suggestion that there's no middle ground between being a scientist and being completely ignorant of science is utterly ridiculous. I don't need to have personally conducted experiments in relativity to understand the many experiments that have been done to confirm the theory. I have been an avid reader of science journals for most of my life and have read many articles and books concerning Einstein's theories, and understand quite well why classical physics was supplanted by relativity. You on the other hand have repeatedly displayed an ignorance of science by making such claims that it is questionable that heart transplants have been performed or that GPS systems don't need to take relativity into account to achieve the accuracy that they do.
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Post by Arlon10 on May 4, 2019 17:12:26 GMT
If you still can't see that both political parties are wrong. If you still can't see that they are dominated by people who are too ignorant of religion and science to manage either one, there is only one explanation, you are too ignorant of religion and science yourself to manage anything, even those things that government ought to manage. I never said there is no evidence for relativity. I only point out that the people who believe in it that I have met don't have any evidence, which you have just confirmed. So it's agreed then, you are not a scientist yourself, you just follow the herd on science. Would you care to elaborate how that won't go terribly wrong one day? That is of course if you don't see it going wrong already. I'll repeat what I said in a reply to you (replying to Goz about not being a scientist): It's like saying that one can't understand sports or politics unless one is an athlete or politician. Your suggestion that there's no middle ground between being a scientist and being completely ignorant of science is utterly ridiculous. I don't need to have personally conducted experiments in relativity to understand the many experiments that have been done to confirm the theory. I have been an avid reader of science journals for most of my life and have read many articles and books concerning Einstein's theories, and understand quite well why classical physics was supplanted by relativity. You on the other hand have repeatedly displayed an ignorance of science by making such claims that it is questionable that heart transplants have been performed or that GPS systems don't need to take relativity into account to achieve the accuracy that they do. I really do not care what you believe about relativity. There is no good reason I should. How you waste your time is your business. Even if it's true it will never do you any good. I enjoy science fiction, but only for relaxation. Before I leave this topic though I would like to highlight a comparison you might not have considered. Atheists are often annoyed that people of faith try to impose beliefs on others. Have you ever noticed that? Of course it is true there are people of "faith" who can be especially annoying that way, especially novices. I'm sorry about that. It is not how people advanced in faith generally operate though. They tend to persuade rather than coerce. You can often tell how well a person understands his arguments himself by how persuasive or coercive he is. Coercive people are usually stupid. You are obviously not prepared to persuade anyone of science. That is all well so long as you do not expect anyone to be persuaded. If you do not expect me to agree with you on science, then you're fine. If you expect me to agree with you then please notice how you are just like those fundamentalists who annoy people with their lack of "logic." Isn't that funny? How some people are like that? And they don't see how they're being the same way as people they disparage?
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Post by goz on May 4, 2019 23:46:46 GMT
I'll repeat what I said in a reply to you (replying to Goz about not being a scientist): It's like saying that one can't understand sports or politics unless one is an athlete or politician. Your suggestion that there's no middle ground between being a scientist and being completely ignorant of science is utterly ridiculous. I don't need to have personally conducted experiments in relativity to understand the many experiments that have been done to confirm the theory. I have been an avid reader of science journals for most of my life and have read many articles and books concerning Einstein's theories, and understand quite well why classical physics was supplanted by relativity. You on the other hand have repeatedly displayed an ignorance of science by making such claims that it is questionable that heart transplants have been performed or that GPS systems don't need to take relativity into account to achieve the accuracy that they do. I really do not care what you believe about relativity. There is no good reason I should. How you waste your time is your business. Even if it's true it will never do you any good. I enjoy science fiction, but only for relaxation. Before I leave this topic though I would like to highlight a comparison you might not have considered. Atheists are often annoyed that people of faith try to impose beliefs on others. Have you ever noticed that? Of course it is true there are people of "faith" who can be especially annoying that way, especially novices. I'm sorry about that. It is not how people advanced in faith generally operate though. They tend to persuade rather than coerce. You can often tell how well a person understands his arguments himself by how persuasive or coercive he is. Coercive people are usually stupid. You are obviously not prepared to persuade anyone of science. That is all well so long as you do not expect anyone to be persuaded. If you do not expect me to agree with you on science, then you're fine. If you expect me to agree with you then please notice how you are just like those fundamentalists who annoy people with their lack of "logic." Isn't that funny? How some people are like that? And they don't see how they're being the same way as people they disparage? ...except that accepting the vast compendium of human scientific knowledge ( which your modern life depends on) ...is NOT a belief in science like your 'belief' in religion. It is a matter of knowledge, logic and a clear understanding of how the world works.
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Post by general313 on May 5, 2019 0:33:36 GMT
I'll repeat what I said in a reply to you (replying to Goz about not being a scientist): It's like saying that one can't understand sports or politics unless one is an athlete or politician. Your suggestion that there's no middle ground between being a scientist and being completely ignorant of science is utterly ridiculous. I don't need to have personally conducted experiments in relativity to understand the many experiments that have been done to confirm the theory. I have been an avid reader of science journals for most of my life and have read many articles and books concerning Einstein's theories, and understand quite well why classical physics was supplanted by relativity. You on the other hand have repeatedly displayed an ignorance of science by making such claims that it is questionable that heart transplants have been performed or that GPS systems don't need to take relativity into account to achieve the accuracy that they do. I really do not care what you believe about relativity. There is no good reason I should. How you waste your time is your business. Even if it's true it will never do you any good. I enjoy science fiction, but only for relaxation. Before I leave this topic though I would like to highlight a comparison you might not have considered. Atheists are often annoyed that people of faith try to impose beliefs on others. Have you ever noticed that? Of course it is true there are people of "faith" who can be especially annoying that way, especially novices. I'm sorry about that. It is not how people advanced in faith generally operate though. They tend to persuade rather than coerce. You can often tell how well a person understands his arguments himself by how persuasive or coercive he is. Coercive people are usually stupid. You are obviously not prepared to persuade anyone of science. That is all well so long as you do not expect anyone to be persuaded. If you do not expect me to agree with you on science, then you're fine. If you expect me to agree with you then please notice how you are just like those fundamentalists who annoy people with their lack of "logic." Isn't that funny? How some people are like that? And they don't see how they're being the same way as people they disparage? You haven't made any refutation, let alone acknowlegement of the flaws in your arguments. You fancy yourself a man of science but to any rational scientific thinker it's clear that you're vastly ignorant of how science works. I likewise am not going to lose any sleep if you cling to your broken views on science.
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Post by general313 on May 5, 2019 0:39:14 GMT
I really do not care what you believe about relativity. There is no good reason I should. How you waste your time is your business. Even if it's true it will never do you any good. I enjoy science fiction, but only for relaxation. Before I leave this topic though I would like to highlight a comparison you might not have considered. Atheists are often annoyed that people of faith try to impose beliefs on others. Have you ever noticed that? Of course it is true there are people of "faith" who can be especially annoying that way, especially novices. I'm sorry about that. It is not how people advanced in faith generally operate though. They tend to persuade rather than coerce. You can often tell how well a person understands his arguments himself by how persuasive or coercive he is. Coercive people are usually stupid. You are obviously not prepared to persuade anyone of science. That is all well so long as you do not expect anyone to be persuaded. If you do not expect me to agree with you on science, then you're fine. If you expect me to agree with you then please notice how you are just like those fundamentalists who annoy people with their lack of "logic." Isn't that funny? How some people are like that? And they don't see how they're being the same way as people they disparage? ...except that accepting the vast compendium of human scientific knowledge ( which your modern life depends on) ...is NOT a belief in science like your 'belief' in religion. It is a matter of knowledge, logic and a clear understanding of how the world works. Arlon keeps insisting that the only way to know science is to do your own experiments. Reading about it doesn't count. It's a wonder that he makes use of computers to participate in this board using technology that he is incapable of devising his own experiments to test how they work. When he makes coding errors that give him the wrong answer in a computer simulation he blames the random number generator!
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Post by Arlon10 on May 5, 2019 5:40:36 GMT
I really do not care what you believe about relativity. There is no good reason I should. How you waste your time is your business. Even if it's true it will never do you any good. I enjoy science fiction, but only for relaxation. Before I leave this topic though I would like to highlight a comparison you might not have considered. Atheists are often annoyed that people of faith try to impose beliefs on others. Have you ever noticed that? Of course it is true there are people of "faith" who can be especially annoying that way, especially novices. I'm sorry about that. It is not how people advanced in faith generally operate though. They tend to persuade rather than coerce. You can often tell how well a person understands his arguments himself by how persuasive or coercive he is. Coercive people are usually stupid. You are obviously not prepared to persuade anyone of science. That is all well so long as you do not expect anyone to be persuaded. If you do not expect me to agree with you on science, then you're fine. If you expect me to agree with you then please notice how you are just like those fundamentalists who annoy people with their lack of "logic." Isn't that funny? How some people are like that? And they don't see how they're being the same way as people they disparage? You haven't made any refutation, let alone acknowlegement of the flaws in your arguments. You fancy yourself a man of science but to any rational scientific thinker it's clear that you're vastly ignorant of how science works. I likewise am not going to lose any sleep if you cling to your broken views on science. Perhaps now you can finally see how both "sides" have it wrong. We have noticed on this board for years now that atheists and fundamentalists are just two sides of the same bad coin. Perhaps now you can see why they try to use government to coerce others to their "side." Neither "side" has any persuasive skills and rests in their attitude that it is just some "failure" on the other side. No, it is not a failure on the "other" side. You (each) failed to make a case. I can't "refute" a case you haven't made. The flaw is yours. I do understand that there are people of religious faith who are just as bad as you. It is a failure on each side. So it is just as I have been saying for years and summarized here. It is poor people's misunderstanding of science fighting poor people's misunderstanding of religion. Neither side has much to teach. Each side has used government to force the other side to "shut up." In Scopes it was the government forcing "evolution" to shut up. In Kitzmiller is was the government forcing "creationism" to shut up. The real religion and science of the matter are ignored. People had been breeding plants and animals for centuries before Jacob did it in the Bible. Darwin didn't add anything to that. Meanwhile all public schools including the best have always taught that the path to life from things not at all alive is not found in nature. I don't believe you're as stupid as you think I am. I believe these things might have escaped your attention. Most people are busy with other things. I think you can see the problem if you just let yourself and take the time to fully consider it. You don't have to be a grunt fighting other grunts. You can grow up. Admitting a mistake can be difficult. Many people now realize they made a mistake voting for Trump. Defeating him will probably take more than just another mistake from the other side. At some point someone is going to have to start to get it right.
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Post by Arlon10 on May 5, 2019 5:59:10 GMT
I really do not care what you believe about relativity. There is no good reason I should. How you waste your time is your business. Even if it's true it will never do you any good. I enjoy science fiction, but only for relaxation. Before I leave this topic though I would like to highlight a comparison you might not have considered. Atheists are often annoyed that people of faith try to impose beliefs on others. Have you ever noticed that? Of course it is true there are people of "faith" who can be especially annoying that way, especially novices. I'm sorry about that. It is not how people advanced in faith generally operate though. They tend to persuade rather than coerce. You can often tell how well a person understands his arguments himself by how persuasive or coercive he is. Coercive people are usually stupid. You are obviously not prepared to persuade anyone of science. That is all well so long as you do not expect anyone to be persuaded. If you do not expect me to agree with you on science, then you're fine. If you expect me to agree with you then please notice how you are just like those fundamentalists who annoy people with their lack of "logic." Isn't that funny? How some people are like that? And they don't see how they're being the same way as people they disparage? ...except that accepting the vast compendium of human scientific knowledge ( which your modern life depends on) ...is NOT a belief in science like your 'belief' in religion. It is a matter of knowledge, logic and a clear understanding of how the world works. I am now and have from an extraordinarily young age been aware of television and aircraft. I have always realized the people in Bible times had none of those. My point is I understand it better than you. The reason you find science so impressive and important is that it is over your head. Science and math come rather easily to me. They always have. Schools have even said so, and they should know. Therefore I am less impressed with science than you are. Now do you see how Dunning Kruger works? I do not expect science to do things it obviously never will, you do. When you say there is no god because golly, gee whiz, aircraft and television, you don't realize how childish that is. The faith in science inspired by your ignorance of it has become a problem in the world. If you like science, then please use it. I really think you can. It's easy for me. It can't be all that difficult for you.
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Post by faustus5 on May 5, 2019 12:32:45 GMT
In Kitzmiller is was the government forcing "creationism" to shut up. The real religion and science of the matter are ignored. In Kitzmiller it was a case of religious pseudo-science being forced on teachers who knew it was garbage. And the actual science of the matter was brought up and examined in detail, with several scientists testifying. You obviously know jack shit about the real details of the trial. He added something incredibly important--that completely mindless processes directed by no one for no purpose are responsible for almost all the biological structures we see in nature. This is your basic scientific illiteracy showing, that the most shocking and essential insight of Darwin goes right over your head. Any school teaching such bullshit is being run by incompetent morons who have no interest in science and instead teach religious propaganda. Just your kind of people.
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Post by Arlon10 on May 5, 2019 13:07:18 GMT
In Kitzmiller is was the government forcing "creationism" to shut up. The real religion and science of the matter are ignored. In Kitzmiller it was a case of religious pseudo-science being forced on teachers who knew it was garbage. And the actual science of the matter was brought up and examined in detail, with several scientists testifying. You obviously know jack shit about the real details of the trial. He added something incredibly important--that completely mindless processes directed by no one for no purpose are responsible for almost all the biological structures we see in nature. This is your basic scientific illiteracy showing, that the most shocking and essential insight of Darwin goes right over your head. Any school teaching such bullshit is being run by incompetent morons who have no interest in science and instead teach religious propaganda. Just your kind of people.
I'm sorry I did not give Darwin enough credit. He did create a trap for idiots like you. If you can describe exactly how the first life on Earth began and demonstrate that in a lab, make that movie. I'm sure there's money in it.
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Post by faustus5 on May 5, 2019 14:32:14 GMT
If you can describe exactly how the first life on Earth began and demonstrate that in a lab, make that movie. I'm sure there's money in it. Yep, when your sorry ass has been handed to you, just change the subject.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on May 5, 2019 15:13:02 GMT
If you can describe exactly how the first life on Earth began and demonstrate that in a lab, make that movie. I'm sure there's money in it. Yep, when your sorry ass has been handed to you, just change the subject. If that's your idea of clever sophistry, perhaps you should just stay off the thread.
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Post by faustus5 on May 5, 2019 15:53:43 GMT
Yep, when your sorry ass has been handed to you, just change the subject. If that's your idea of clever sophistry, perhaps you should just stay off the thread. I suggest you, in turn, go back to your meth lab and YouTube videos about chemtrails.
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Post by goz on May 5, 2019 21:29:07 GMT
...except that accepting the vast compendium of human scientific knowledge ( which your modern life depends on) ...is NOT a belief in science like your 'belief' in religion. It is a matter of knowledge, logic and a clear understanding of how the world works. I am now and have from an extraordinarily young age been aware of television and aircraft. I have always realized the people in Bible times had none of those. My point is I understand it better than you. The reason you find science so impressive and important is that it is over your head. Science and math come rather easily to me. They always have. Schools have even said so, and they should know. Therefore I am less impressed with science than you are. Now do you see how Dunning Kruger works? I do not expect science to do things it obviously never will, you do. When you say there is no god because golly, gee whiz, aircraft and television, you don't realize how childish that is. The faith in science inspired by your ignorance of it has become a problem in the world. If you like science, then please use it. I really think you can. It's easy for me. It can't be all that difficult for you. Thanks Captain Obvious from Planet Arlon. Now, perhaps you can describe how and why we now have television and aircraft. Are you sure that your god didn't 'create' them? ...says the person who posted at length a really stupid argument (one of so many on here by you) that heart lung transplants don't take place. You wouldn't know a scientific argument of it bit you n the arse and you are always just embarrassing yourself with your Dunning Kruger like ignorance and arrogance. Gee what a shame such a brilliant student as you think of yourself didn't put his skills to work and actually achieve something beyond delusional nonsense o a message bard and stupid blog site! How and why? AS stated above science s busy solving all of the long held mysteries of how and why things work. It can only be of benefit to mankind and here you are typing on a computer. What is the problem? Surely it is only with scientific technology that we can even attempt to reign in climate change, weapons of mass destruction and their use or outbreaks of disease caused by mutation in destructive organisms? Yes, you are exhibiting it absolutely brilliantly for all to see. ...like TV aircraft and heart lung transplants, splitting atoms, seeing into black holes curing diseases etc etc etc? It does OK. I await with interest how you answer to my question whether your God created TV and aircraft as a result of this uber stupid non-sequitur! There is no God because so far as we know there is NO evidence for one and everything here on earth is explained by natural processes that work along natural laws and can gradually be explained by scientific method, progressively as the compendium of modern science is added to and updated with new discoveries and modification of old ones as new information is revealed . There you go Dunning Kruger poster boy! YOU think you know about 'science' yet everything you have stated above says the reverse, yet you arrogantly claim to know about it on the one hand and yet reject it on the other. You cannot have it both ways. Because I can read and I can research in books and journals and on the internet I can stand back and admire the work of career scientists. I can try to understand it, support it and realise that better brains than mine ( and more so yours that is so obviously wasted if you are really that smart) have made our world a better and safer place despite and instead of your alleged God. BTW I treat you with respect in answering all your guff however you really are a delusional old goat who has unfounded delusions of grandeur! [/quote]
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