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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Jun 15, 2019 20:57:26 GMT
Charles Manson. From what I heard he was a massive hypocrite who was originally a peace loving hippie that didn't like things like things like fame, power and money 'cause he believed they divided people and everybody should be equal but when his music career flopped despite having the help of Dennis Wilson from the Beach Boys fame, power and money was all he cared about and it was why he got people to kill for him. Other than him I think Henry Lee Lucas is probably one of the worst human beings of all time and I read he killed over 1000 people moving from town to town and that is more than any terrorist or mass shooter in history and is insane.  Actually, there are questions about his guilt in many of the killings he confessed to. www.murderpedia.org/male.L/l/lucas-henry-lee.htmThis topic - who is the worst, should being a victim give a perpetrator a 'free pass' - was a subject of heated argument on the old IMDb "Criminal Minds" board. Some posters were sympathetic to killers that had been abused or victimized in some way. Other posters weren't sympathetic, citing that becoming a perpetrator was still a choice. Not all victims become abusers. The argument was never totally settled. Honestly, I think every case needs to be evaluated separately, and no general conclusion can be made. Behavioral analysis operates on the theory that there are four components to a person's behavior - genetics, brain chemistry, psychology and environment. And each individual is on a unique point in this spectrum. Edit: While the TV series "Criminal Minds" is a fictional work, it is based on the very real-life Behavioral Analysis Unit of the FBI. Former FBI agents acted as consultants on the show, and many episodes were variations on actual, documented serial killers. Many references were made to those actual serial killers, and the crimes they committed.
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Jun 16, 2019 1:00:39 GMT
Charles Manson. From what I heard he was a massive hypocrite who was originally a peace loving hippie that didn't like things like things like fame, power and money 'cause he believed they divided people and everybody should be equal but when his music career flopped despite having the help of Dennis Wilson from the Beach Boys fame, power and money was all he cared about and it was why he got people to kill for him. Other than him I think Henry Lee Lucas is probably one of the worst human beings of all time and I read he killed over 1000 people moving from town to town and that is more than any terrorist or mass shooter in history and is insane. Actually, there are questions about his guilt in many of the killings he confessed to. www.murderpedia.org/male.L/l/lucas-henry-lee.htmThis topic - who is the worst, should being a victim give a perpetrator a 'free pass' - was a subject of heated argument on the old IMDb "Criminal Minds" board. Some posters were sympathetic to killers that had been abused or victimized in some way. Other posters weren't sympathetic, citing that becoming a perpetrator was still a choice. Not all victims become abusers. The argument was never totally settled. Honestly, I think every case needs to be evaluated separately, and no general conclusion can be made. Behavioral analysis operates on the theory that there are four components to a person's behavior - genetics, brain chemistry, psychology and environment. And each individual is on a unique point in this spectrum. Edit: While the TV series "Criminal Minds" is a fictional work, it is based on the very real-life Behavioral Analysis Unit of the FBI. Former FBI agents acted as consultants on the show, and many episodes were variations on actual, documented serial killers. Many references were made to those actual serial killers, and the crimes they committed. Genetics and brain chemistry are biological\physiological. That is the package the person comes with. The psychology is an intangible and is largely affected by environmental conditioning. This is what determines mind, or state of mind. The attitude and behavior of a person is largely due to what is conditioned onto them.
For someone like Manson, he was pretty much f<>ed up right from the start with extreme dysfunction. Polanski suffered and survived through the holocaust as a child\youth. While dysfunction was raging around him, he would have been caught up in shared, collective community support from his own people all put into the same box. The difference also, Polanski didn't grow up to be a psychotic, so this is perhaps not a great compare, apart from the fact that they are connected by the abhorrent and tragic events his wife, his almost about to be birthed newborn son and friends suffered at the hands of Manson's cult. Polanski dipping his wick where he shouldn't have pales in comparison to all that went before.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Jun 16, 2019 3:11:00 GMT
Actually, there are questions about his guilt in many of the killings he confessed to. www.murderpedia.org/male.L/l/lucas-henry-lee.htmThis topic - who is the worst, should being a victim give a perpetrator a 'free pass' - was a subject of heated argument on the old IMDb "Criminal Minds" board. Some posters were sympathetic to killers that had been abused or victimized in some way. Other posters weren't sympathetic, citing that becoming a perpetrator was still a choice. Not all victims become abusers. The argument was never totally settled. Honestly, I think every case needs to be evaluated separately, and no general conclusion can be made. Behavioral analysis operates on the theory that there are four components to a person's behavior - genetics, brain chemistry, psychology and environment. And each individual is on a unique point in this spectrum. Edit: While the TV series "Criminal Minds" is a fictional work, it is based on the very real-life Behavioral Analysis Unit of the FBI. Former FBI agents acted as consultants on the show, and many episodes were variations on actual, documented serial killers. Many references were made to those actual serial killers, and the crimes they committed. Genetics and brain chemistry are biological\physiological. That is the package the person comes with. The psychology is an intangible and is largely affected by environmental conditioning. This is what determines mind, or state of mind. The attitude and behavior of a person is largely due to what is conditioned onto them.
For someone like Manson, he was pretty much f<>ed up right from the start with extreme dysfunction. Polanski suffered and survived through the holocaust as a child\youth. While dysfunction was raging around him, he would have been caught up in shared, collective community support from his own people all put into the same box. The difference also, Polanski didn't grow up to be a psychotic, so this is perhaps not a great compare, apart from the fact that they are connected by the abhorrent and tragic events his wife, his almost about to be birthed newborn son and friends suffered at the hands of Manson's cult. Polanski dipping his wick where he shouldn't have pales in comparison to all that went before.
Actually, the term is a psychopath, and they are born without the ability to have empathy. So are sociopaths. Whether or not they become criminals depends on their environment. Are you familiar with the Diagnostics and Statistics Manual 5? This sort of thing is clearly outlined, and is considered the standard in psychology, especially forensic psychology. The World Health Organization has a similar manual, and there are subtle differences. But the DSM 5 is the standard in the US. It is used by law enforcement to develop a 'profile' of a criminal, based on behavior and evidence. It is a separate area of study in the law enforcement community. Your favorite "homicidal maniac", Norman, was loosely based on the actual psychopathology of serial murderer Ed Gein. Gein had an Oedipal complex which developed in the years he nursed his paralyzed mother back from a stroke. After she died, his obsession compelled him to dig up corpses of women who resembled his mother. So persistent was his desire to resurrect his dead mother that he actually dressed in female suits fashioned from human skin. Eventually, Gein grew unhappy with the flesh of dead bodies, which had a tendency to dry and crack, so he shifted his focus to live victims, whose bodies he could better preserve. It is an interesting area of research.
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Post by clusium on Jun 16, 2019 5:16:19 GMT
I just got done listening to "Twelve Thirty", by The Mamas and Papas, and every time I do listen to I think of Sharon Tate and it makes me sad and it chills me to the bone. I have always liked Roman Polanski, never thought he was a bad person, not by a long shot, and I have brought the topic up before, though never perhaps in such a direct way. I have read posts here that have judged and demonized RP and I have never been able to wrap my head around such rabid judgment and unforgiving attitude. And while RP seems to trigger a lot of people, much of the time I think they were unmoved by the tragedy of Sharon Tate. There is something to that. Hence, the poll... Anyway, I voted for Susan Denise Atkins because she was the one who actually killed Sharon, and she has always scared the hell out of me. Actually, when you think about it, this question & poll, would be almost like asking who was worse between Kenneth Parnell & Carey Stayner.
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Jun 16, 2019 7:46:09 GMT
Genetics and brain chemistry are biological\physiological. That is the package the person comes with. The psychology is an intangible and is largely affected by environmental conditioning. This is what determines mind, or state of mind. The attitude and behavior of a person is largely due to what is conditioned onto them.
For someone like Manson, he was pretty much f<>ed up right from the start with extreme dysfunction. Polanski suffered and survived through the holocaust as a child\youth. While dysfunction was raging around him, he would have been caught up in shared, collective community support from his own people all put into the same box. The difference also, Polanski didn't grow up to be a psychotic, so this is perhaps not a great compare, apart from the fact that they are connected by the abhorrent and tragic events his wife, his almost about to be birthed newborn son and friends suffered at the hands of Manson's cult. Polanski dipping his wick where he shouldn't have pales in comparison to all that went before.
Actually, the term is a psychopath, and they are born without the ability to have empathy. So are sociopaths. Whether or not they become criminals depends on their environment. Are you familiar with the Diagnostics and Statistics Manual 5? This sort of thing is clearly outlined, and is considered the standard in psychology, especially forensic psychology. The World Health Organization has a similar manual, and there are subtle differences. But the DSM 5 is the standard in the US. It is used by law enforcement to develop a 'profile' of a criminal, based on behavior and evidence. It is a separate area of study in the law enforcement community. Your favorite "homicidal maniac", Norman, was loosely based on the actual psychopathology of serial murderer Ed Gein. Gein had an Oedipal complex which developed in the years he nursed his paralyzed mother back from a stroke. After she died, his obsession compelled him to dig up corpses of women who resembled his mother. So persistent was his desire to resurrect his dead mother that he actually dressed in female suits fashioned from human skin. Eventually, Gein grew unhappy with the flesh of dead bodies, which had a tendency to dry and crack, so he shifted his focus to live victims, whose bodies he could better preserve. It is an interesting area of research. Yes, I am familiar with the DSM5 and it is used as reference in many countries, not just the US.
I'd day Manson was psychotic first and foremost and drug addiction would have been a contributing factor to this. I don't believe people are born violent psychopaths. From what I have read sociopathy is something that is learned as well. This woman is worth listening too.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Jun 16, 2019 10:47:50 GMT
Actually, the term is a psychopath, and they are born without the ability to have empathy. So are sociopaths. Whether or not they become criminals depends on their environment. Are you familiar with the Diagnostics and Statistics Manual 5? This sort of thing is clearly outlined, and is considered the standard in psychology, especially forensic psychology. The World Health Organization has a similar manual, and there are subtle differences. But the DSM 5 is the standard in the US. It is used by law enforcement to develop a 'profile' of a criminal, based on behavior and evidence. It is a separate area of study in the law enforcement community. Your favorite "homicidal maniac", Norman, was loosely based on the actual psychopathology of serial murderer Ed Gein. Gein had an Oedipal complex which developed in the years he nursed his paralyzed mother back from a stroke. After she died, his obsession compelled him to dig up corpses of women who resembled his mother. So persistent was his desire to resurrect his dead mother that he actually dressed in female suits fashioned from human skin. Eventually, Gein grew unhappy with the flesh of dead bodies, which had a tendency to dry and crack, so he shifted his focus to live victims, whose bodies he could better preserve. It is an interesting area of research. Yes, I am familiar with the DSM5 and it is used as reference in many countries, not just the US.
I'd day Manson was psychotic first and foremost and drug addiction would have been a contributing factor to this. I don't believe people are born violent psychopaths. From what I have read sociopathy is something that is learned as well. This woman is worth listening too.
I will view that later today... Manson had the worst of nature and nurture; I read his bio on Wikipedia. Yikes. Psychology is an interesting, and inexact science. What tips the scales towards violent behavior? I don't believe that there is a separate 'entity' of evil, as most religious people do. That is too easy an excuse - "the devil made me do it". It's in nature or nurture, to varying degrees. And some of us are more aware of it than others. And cats do have radar...
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Jun 16, 2019 22:29:47 GMT
Yes, I am familiar with the DSM5 and it is used as reference in many countries, not just the US.
I'd day Manson was psychotic first and foremost and drug addiction would have been a contributing factor to this. I don't believe people are born violent psychopaths. From what I have read sociopathy is something that is learned as well. This woman is worth listening too.
I will view that later today... Manson had the worst of nature and nurture; I read his bio on Wikipedia. Yikes. Psychology is an interesting, and inexact science. What tips the scales towards violent behavior? I don't believe that there is a separate 'entity' of evil, as most religious people do. That is too easy an excuse - "the devil made me do it". It's in nature or nurture, to varying degrees. And some of us are more aware of it than others. And cats do have radar... That clip is about 12 mins. There is one also, about the different types of narcissists.
Yes, psychology is inexact. Each character's makeup and experience and perception of things is never the same from one person to the next. Those that are perhaps prone to psychopathic behavior, it would be an inherent aspect of their own being, but would only get triggered by certain circumstances in their life. The behavior would lie dormant otherwise and depending on how they were treated and conditioned when young. Like you have mentioned also, some people can experience s<>t and hardships and not turn out rotten. Nurture is also what defines and refines the nature.
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