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Post by Aj_June on Apr 19, 2019 11:59:39 GMT
An extremely powerful, rich institution lost a building. Boo fucking hoo. A rich celebrity breaking a wrist is actually worse. The Notre-Dame cathedral is not just any building. In importance to Western Civilization it is comparable to the Parthenon. It inspires and awes millions and millions of people, including me. I was raised Protestant and have moved on from that but that cathedral has made a deep and lasting impression on me, and I'm sure I'm not the only non-Catholic that feels that way. Some people don't give a shit about art, and they're free to do so, but they make an errror if they project their own lack of interest on others. 100% correct.
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Post by general313 on Apr 19, 2019 14:15:05 GMT
The Notre-Dame cathedral is not just any building. Blah, blah, blah. It's a fucking building. I don't care that it is also a great work of art--the money spent on restoring it could change millions of human lives for the better in substantial ways that don't involve collective hallucinations. These rich assholes could have improved and even saved the lives of hoards of human beings and had every opportunity to do so throughout their lives but chose not to bother. They are only spending their money on a building to look cool. That is all they care about.
Imagine that the celebrity who broke his wrist inspired millions and then his bejeweled microphone broke. I know, you've made that very clear. Reread the section where I said it's a mistake to project your interests and lack thereof on millions of others.
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Post by faustus5 on Apr 19, 2019 14:19:27 GMT
I know, you've made that very clear. Reread the section where I said it's a mistake to project your interests and lack thereof on millions of others. I'm not projecting anything, clueless wonder. I'm stating a moral position. Sorry all this goes right over your head.
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Post by Aj_June on Apr 19, 2019 14:30:01 GMT
An extremely powerful, rich institution lost a building. Boo fucking hoo. A rich celebrity breaking a wrist is actually worse. The Notre-Dame cathedral is not just any building. In importance to Western Civilization it is comparable to the Parthenon. It inspires and awes millions and millions of people, including me. I was raised Protestant and have moved on from that but that cathedral has made a deep and lasting impression on me, and I'm sure I'm not the only non-Catholic that feels that way. Some people don't give a shit about art, and they're free to do so, but they make an errror if they project their own lack of interest on others. Not to forget a source of making Paris so special. A tourism industry worth billions of dollar and it (Notre Dam) beats Eiffel tower every year as the no.1 destination. Is it even wonder France derives so much revenue from outside world. And creates tremendous employment opportunities for its people.
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Post by general313 on Apr 19, 2019 14:50:49 GMT
I know, you've made that very clear. Reread the section where I said it's a mistake to project your interests and lack thereof on millions of others. I'm not projecting anything, clueless wonder. I'm stating a moral position. Sorry all this goes right over your head. Of course you are, when you describe the Notre Dame Cathedral as just another "fucking building". If you're bothered by the interest in this "building" that has quickly raised pledges of many millions of Euros, that's your problem. Also your injection of ad hominems into your response is noticed. Does that make you feel like your case is strengthened?
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Post by general313 on Apr 19, 2019 14:59:01 GMT
The Notre-Dame cathedral is not just any building. In importance to Western Civilization it is comparable to the Parthenon. It inspires and awes millions and millions of people, including me. I was raised Protestant and have moved on from that but that cathedral has made a deep and lasting impression on me, and I'm sure I'm not the only non-Catholic that feels that way. Some people don't give a shit about art, and they're free to do so, but they make an errror if they project their own lack of interest on others. Not to forget a source of making Paris so special. A tourism industry worth billions of dollar and it (Notre Dam) beats Eiffel tower every year as the no.1 destination. Is it even wonder France derives so much revenue from outside world. And creates tremendous employment opportunities for its people. Besides its central location geographically, it has played a central role in the consciousness of Parisians and French persons through most of France's history. But besides that, in my opinion there is something really special about Notre-Dame de Paris. It has a perfect blend of warmth and cool that most other Cathedrals, especially French ones don't have, which tend to be too cool and austere. I think of all the cathedrals I've seen the only one that comes close is Salisbury Cathedral in England. I have on several occasions sat in the middle of Notre Dame to reflect, and I had this great feeling of comfort like I was in the cozy living room of the world.
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Post by faustus5 on Apr 19, 2019 15:01:51 GMT
Of course you are, when you describe the Notre Dame Cathedral as just another "fucking building". No, I'm not. Either English is not your first language so you have an abysmal understanding of what "projecting" means, or you are philosophically illiterate. Take your pick.
No, I just think that stupid people should be called out as stupid people at every opportunity. It's one of my rules. And by the way: you don't even know what an ad hominem argument is. I didn't make one.
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Post by Aj_June on Apr 19, 2019 15:04:14 GMT
Not to forget a source of making Paris so special. A tourism industry worth billions of dollar and it (Notre Dam) beats Eiffel tower every year as the no.1 destination. Is it even wonder France derives so much revenue from outside world. And creates tremendous employment opportunities for its people. Besides its central location geographically, it has played a central role in the consciousness of Parisians and French persons through most of France's history. But besides that, in my opinion there is something really special about Notre-Dame de Paris. It has a perfect blend of warmth and cool that most other Cathedrals, especially French ones don't have, which tend to be too cool and austere. I think of all the cathedrals I've seen the only one that comes close is Salisbury Cathedral in England. I have on several occasions sat in the middle of Notre Dame to reflect, and I had this great feeling of comfort like I was in the cozy living room of the world. Ah....Been to Salisbury Cathedral and enjoyed it immensely. Stonehenge is nearby too. The Cathedral holds one of the 4 surviving copies of Magna Carta and has one of the oldest working clocks in the world. The architecture industry creates a lot of development, man. It has huge impact on economic development of cities and countries. It brings people from far away places who all contribute to restaurant, hotels, retail and other local businesses.
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Post by general313 on Apr 19, 2019 15:10:48 GMT
Of course you are, when you describe the Notre Dame Cathedral as just another "fucking building". No, I'm not. Either English is not your first language so you have an abysmal understanding of what "projecting" means, or you are philosophically illiterate. Take your pick.
No, I just think that stupid people should be called out as stupid people at every opportunity. It's one of my rules. And by the way, shit for brains: you don't even know what an ad hominem argument is. I didn't make one.
Ad hominem attacks can take the form of overtly attacking somebody, or more subtly casting doubt on their character or personal attributes as a way to discredit ... One of your rules is to call anyone you disagree with "shit for brains". If you cannot make arguments without the childish insults, we're done.
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Post by faustus5 on Apr 20, 2019 11:46:32 GMT
Ad hominem attacks can take the form of overtly attacking somebody, or more subtly casting doubt on their character or personal attributes as a way to discredit ... You have no idea what you are talking about, as usual. I was rude and insulting to you. That does not constitute an ad hominem. Just because you can repeat a fancy Latin term doesn't mean you actually know its meaning. Educate yourself.
Your defeat has been duly noted--you couldn't deal with my points, so you became a little baby and focused on my taunts. Because that's all you have.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2019 11:56:58 GMT
I'm inclined to agree with Faustus...
What would Jesus do after Notre Dame burnt down?
Shrug his shoulders, and get on with helping the homeless who live along the Seine.
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Post by OldSamVimes on Apr 20, 2019 12:13:56 GMT
An extremely powerful, rich institution lost a building. Boo fucking hoo. A rich celebrity breaking a wrist is actually worse. The Notre-Dame cathedral is not just any building. In importance to Western Civilization it is comparable to the Parthenon. It inspires and awes millions and millions of people, including me. I was raised Protestant and have moved on from that but that cathedral has made a deep and lasting impression on me, and I'm sure I'm not the only non-Catholic that feels that way. Some people don't give a shit about art, and they're free to do so, but they make an error if they project their own lack of interest on others. That's the sad truth. It wasn't 'Just a building'. My house is 'Just a building'. It was a link to people who lived hundreds of years ago, who spent lifetimes building it. A testament to those who lost their lives building something that they knew wouldn't be completed in a lifetime. Not to mention the hours and hours of artistry that went into the building. How many of us in this age of instant gratification can imagine dedicating our lives to something we won't be alive to see finished? 'Just a building' -- Hard to believe people can be that ignorant about history.
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Post by OldSamVimes on Apr 20, 2019 12:22:44 GMT
I know, you've made that very clear. Reread the section where I said it's a mistake to project your interests and lack thereof on millions of others. I'm not projecting anything, clueless wonder. I'm stating a moral position. Sorry all this goes right over your head. Actually, you projected your lack of interest in art, history, and culture extremely effectively. If anyone disagrees, they are stupid.
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Post by phludowin on Apr 20, 2019 12:25:40 GMT
But it is a bit like "as long as there are homeless and hungry people in my town, the town treasury or local businesses should not fund museums or concert halls". I disagree. No, it isn't like that, either. It's more like: a guy with 100 bucks in his pocket is walking down the street aimlessly with no particular goal, on the way passes several homeless families with charity baskets out, ignores them, sees a popular, rich celebrity fall down and break his wrist, calls him a cab to the hospital, pays for it himself, and makes sure everyone knows that he did it.
And there's nothing wrong with it.
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Post by faustus5 on Apr 20, 2019 13:20:54 GMT
No, it isn't like that, either. It's more like: a guy with 100 bucks in his pocket is walking down the street aimlessly with no particular goal, on the way passes several homeless families with charity baskets out, ignores them, sees a popular, rich celebrity fall down and break his wrist, calls him a cab to the hospital, pays for it himself, and makes sure everyone knows that he did it.
And there's nothing wrong with it. If you really believe that, you have no moral compass to speak of.
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Post by phludowin on Apr 20, 2019 16:18:00 GMT
And there's nothing wrong with it. If you really believe that, you have no moral compass to speak of. Prove it, if you can.
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Post by faustus5 on Apr 20, 2019 16:21:25 GMT
If you really believe that, you have no moral compass to speak of. Prove it, if you can. Your child like naivete is cute. Too bad it is in the service of such a monstrous rejection of basic human values and decency.
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Post by phludowin on Apr 20, 2019 17:21:54 GMT
Your child like naivete is cute. Too bad it is in the service of such a monstrous rejection of basic human values and decency. So you can't prove it. I am not surprised.
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Post by Aj_June on Apr 20, 2019 17:32:42 GMT
Your child like naivete is cute. Too bad it is in the service of such a monstrous rejection of basic human values and decency. So you can't prove it. I am not surprised. No one is being childish here except him. That he is unable to grasp the importance and contribution of art & architecture to economic development & prosperity of cities and countries is not anyone's problem. Spending on art in the form of infrastructure or any permanent source of revenue is not a waste of money especially when you are spending on things of historical importance. But I am sure the concept that historical architecture is an important economic driver is oblivious to people who are ignorant. He probably doesn't know how much UNESCO places importance to the preservation and restoration of culturally important buildings. Anyway, insinuating that decent members of the board reject basic human values and decency only speaks volumes about his arrogance.
Good thing is that UNESCO is going to play a key role in the rebuilding of Notre Dam. Just because some people are incapable of understanding its importance wouldn't stop its rebuilding. I consider Notre Dame a part of world heritage and not just French heritage.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2019 17:38:24 GMT
So you can't prove it. I am not surprised. No one is being childish here except him. That he is unable to grasp the importance and contribution of art & architecture to economic development & prosperity of cities and countries is not anyone's problem. Spending on art in the form of infrastructure or any permanent source of revenue is not a waste of money especially when you are spending on things of historical importance. But I am sure the concept that historical architecture is an important economic driver is oblivious to people who are ignorant. He probably doesn't know how much UNESCO places importance to the preservation and restoration of culturally important buildings. Anyway, insinuating that decent members of the board reject basic human values and decency only speaks volumes about his arrogance.
Good thing is that UNESCO is going to play a key role in the rebuilding of Notre Dam. Just because some people are incapable of understanding its importance wouldn't stop its rebuilding. I consider Notre Dame a part of world heritage and not just French heritage.
Since when were you put in a position to decide who is a "decent member of the board", and who isn't? The irony of doing so whilst calling someone 'arrogant' isn't lost. |
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