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Post by phludowin on Apr 21, 2019 14:28:47 GMT
Except they were.
I already acknowledged that I know these folks were giving money to help the poor in some fashion or other prior to the fire. So they weren't just sitting on it. Concession noted.
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Post by faustus5 on Apr 21, 2019 14:36:31 GMT
So you are a clueless person who doesn't understand how facts work. I am sure that was a fun sentence to type, but you can't back it up. You can flail helplessly, but that is about all you are capable of.
Okay, then this means your argument about economics has been demolished. You cannot document that a significant loss of tourist dollars would occur without Notre Dame. You can guess, you can surmise, you can speculate, but you have no facts on your side. None.
And the situation becomes worse when we posit the alternative scenario where a museum honoring the ruins is erected instead. If you can speculate based on bullshit you pull out of your ass, then so can I: I'm going to surmise that such a museum would bring in as much if not as more tourism than the original cathedral itself. I have exactly the same data to back this up as you do to contradict it: ZERO.
Talk about being a thoroughly uneducated hack--you are the perfect embodiment of one. Anyone who understands science and objective assessments of reality knows that personal anecdotes are complete and utter bullshit. Only a hack uses personal anecdotes to make points about vast, complicated systems. You just facepalmed yourself.
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Post by faustus5 on Apr 21, 2019 14:38:15 GMT
Except they were.
I already acknowledged that I know these folks were giving money to help the poor in some fashion or other prior to the fire. So they weren't just sitting on it. Concession noted. Complete and utter failure to even attempt comprehending the larger point has been duly noted. You must feel so happy you scored points on a complete technicality. Good job.
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Post by Aj_June on Apr 21, 2019 14:41:38 GMT
So you are a clueless person who doesn't understand how facts work. I am sure that was a fun sentence to type, but you can't back it up. You can flail helplessly, but that is about all you are capable of.
Okay, then this means your argument about economics has been demolished. You cannot document that a significant loss of tourist dollars would occur without Notre Dame. You can guess, you can surmise, you can speculate, but you have no facts on your side. None.
And the situation becomes worse when we posit the alternative scenario where a museum honoring the ruins is erected instead. If you can speculate based on bullshit you pull out of your ass, then so can I: I'm going to surmise that such a museum would bring in as much if not as more tourism than the original cathedral itself. I have exactly the same data to back this up as you do to contradict it: ZERO.
Talk about being a thoroughly uneducated hack--you are the perfect embodiment of one. Anyone who understands science and objective assessments of reality knows that personal anecdotes are complete and utter bullshit. Only a hack uses personal anecdotes to make points about vast, complicated systems. You just facepalmed yourself.
A person who is not informed about others and bases his beliefs about others on his personal guesses is talking about facts and personal anecdotes. Lol. The personal anecdote that I gave works for millions and it was based on the scenario you demanded. That what if a person visits a city for seeing many attractions. You will still pay the taxi fee, the food bill and other little things. You still contribute to the local economy.
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Post by Aj_June on Apr 21, 2019 14:42:10 GMT
So they weren't just sitting on it. Concession noted. Complete and utter failure to even attempt comprehending the larger point has been duly noted. You must feel so happy you scored points on a complete technicality. Good job. Okay, so up to pure trolling now. Got it.
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Post by Aj_June on Apr 21, 2019 14:44:10 GMT
Can you cite evidence that they only traveled to Paris because of Notre Dame and wouldn't have spent their money in the city without Notre Dame? Can you cite evidence that a museum set up around the ruins of Notre Dame would not also attract tourists in the same volumes, if not more? All your talk of economics is complete and utter bullshit until you address these issues. With facts. With pleasure. Obviously there are no numbers for tourism in Paris before Notre-Dame was built. But another example of a damaged church exists in Germany with the Frauenkirche in Dresden, Saxonia. Destroyed in 1945, it was only rebuilt after the German unification, and reopened in 2005. It had 2.5 million visitors in one year and after the reopening, tourist numbers in Dresden increased by 20%. For more numbers, go here.
And the Frauenkirche is less iconic than the Notre-Dame cathedral. Read a journal that said that foreign investment in Paris increased a lot after Eiffel Tower was made.
Can you tell me a bit about Dresden? Is it a big city or a mid level city? Never heard of it.
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Post by faustus5 on Apr 21, 2019 14:50:26 GMT
A person who is not informed about others and bases his beliefs about others on his personal guesses is talking about facts and personal anecdotes. Lol. The personal anecdote that I gave works for millions and it was based on the scenario you demanded. Personal anecdotes are worthless in any scientific endeavor. I know you aren't so stupid you don't secretly understand this already. You are just so desperate on this issue that you are becoming a Donald Trump over it and doubling down instead of acting like a grown up, educated adult. A. You still haven't addressed the economics of a much cheaper museum being built to honor the ruins.
B. You still haven't addressed the moral outrageousness of a group of billionaires sitting on billions of cash and only now parting with it in a coordinated, targeted fashion, when they could easily have done so at any time before to objectively, materially enrich the lives of millions.
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Post by faustus5 on Apr 21, 2019 14:51:16 GMT
Complete and utter failure to even attempt comprehending the larger point has been duly noted. You must feel so happy you scored points on a complete technicality. Good job. Okay, so up to pure trolling now. Got it. Yeah, I'm sure that to a dullard like you trying to keep people focused on the ultimate point being made seems like trolling.
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Post by phludowin on Apr 21, 2019 14:52:16 GMT
Can you tell me a bit about Dresden? Is it a big city or a mid level city? Never heard of it.
It's one of the 15 biggest cities in Germany, with about half a million inhabitants, and is the capital of the State of Saxonia. It became famous for being almost completely destroyed by forces from the Allies in February 1945. Before it was a baroque jewel, full of art and buildings, which earned it the nickname "Elbflorenz" (the Firenze of the Elbe). After World War II, there were still plenty of museums in Dresden, like the Zwinger. But after the German unification, they started to rebuild the buildings, especially the Frauenkirche. The tousirm numbers have been increasing since then. So there is a difference between just museums, and beautiful buildings. The latter helps attract tourists.
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Post by Aj_June on Apr 21, 2019 14:55:38 GMT
A person who is not informed about others and bases his beliefs about others on his personal guesses is talking about facts and personal anecdotes. Lol. The personal anecdote that I gave works for millions and it was based on the scenario you demanded. Personal anecdotes are worthless in any scientific endeavor. I know you aren't so stupid you don't secretly understand this already. You are just so desperate on this issue that you are becoming a Donald Trump over it and doubling down instead of acting like a grown up, educated adult. A. You still haven't addressed the economics of a much cheaper museum being built to honor the ruins.
B. You still haven't addressed the moral outrageousness of a group of billionaires sitting on billions of cash and only now parting with it in a coordinated, targeted fashion, when they could easily have done so at any time before to objectively, materially enrich the lives of millions.
Are you totally inept at understanding basic things? Even if you remove my visit to Salisbury, the fact remains that people who visit historic buildings directly or indirectly contribute to local economy. If that's a concept that is hard to understand then you are seriously in need of help.
I do not need to address personal lives of people assuming your claims about them. My ethics are not so cheap, you uneducated hack.
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Post by faustus5 on Apr 21, 2019 15:12:57 GMT
Are you totally inept at understanding basic things? Nope, but you sure as fuck are. And the fact also remains that you have absolutely no documentation about how the presence or absence of Notre Dame would impact the tourist economy of Paris, a city brimming with reasons to attract tourists, nor do you have any documentation about how a museum dedicated to the ruins of Notre Dame would impact the tourist economy of Paris versus an incredibly expensive and purely symbolic recreation.
And you continue, along with everyone else, to completely ignore the central point I have been making about the sudden generosity of the rich with regards to a building as compared to living human beings. Gee, why would that be?
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Post by phludowin on Apr 21, 2019 15:18:48 GMT
Are you totally inept at understanding basic things? Nope, but you sure as fuck are. And the fact also remains that you have absolutely no documentation about how the presence or absence of Notre Dame would impact the tourist economy of Paris, a city brimming with reasons to attract tourists, nor do you have any documentation about how a museum dedicated to the ruins of Notre Dame would impact the tourist economy of Paris versus an incredibly expensive and purely symbolic recreation. The restored buildings of Dresden do attract more tourists than as they were before: Monuments to the war. And you continue, along with everyone else, to completely ignore the central point I have been making about the sudden generosity of the rich with regards to a building as compared to living human beings. Gee, why would that be? Since you completely ignore my points about Dresden, why should you complain about others giving you a taste of your medicine?
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Post by Aj_June on Apr 21, 2019 15:28:07 GMT
Are you totally inept at understanding basic things? Nope, but you sure as fuck are. And the fact also remains that you have absolutely no documentation about how the presence or absence of Notre Dame would impact the tourist economy of Paris, a city brimming with reasons to attract tourists, nor do you have any documentation about how a museum dedicated to the ruins of Notre Dame would impact the tourist economy of Paris versus an incredibly expensive and purely symbolic recreation. And you continue, along with everyone else, to completely ignore the central point I have been making about the sudden generosity of the rich with regards to a building as compared to living human beings. Gee, why would that be?
And Notre Dame is one of the reasons it attracts tourists given that it is the no.1 most visited attraction of France. You don't need more than common sense to understand the impact Notre Damn has on Prais and its economy given how the people from different walks of life have come to support its rebuilding. The city of Paris is all about beauty and Notre Dame is the epitome of that. There are ample reasons to believe that the restored building will in the long run attract more people.
And using words such as "ultimate Point" or "central point" to reiterate your personal views and beliefs about people you don't even know doesn't make you any more correct. What an ingenious person you are given that Phludowin even showed many of those people have been doing charities for long. Your idiotic defense was "but not at the same level as they are in case of Notre Damn". Of course, Notre Dame will get more attention because of current circumstances and its importance in French culture and history. But You lack the sense to understand these things and how certain circumstances can get higher attention. All you have got is childish allegations that all of you are greedy and have no morals. Childish stupidity.
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Post by faustus5 on Apr 21, 2019 15:36:28 GMT
The restored buildings of Dresden do attract more tourists than as they were before: Monuments to the war. Still no documentation proving that a museum dedicated to the ruins of the cathedral would result in a grave, meaningful loss of revenue for the entire city of Paris as opposed to an expensive, purely symbolic pretend recreation. Got it.
This focus on tourism is, of course, simply a lame attempt to avoid the central point I have been making.
Sweetie pie, your "points" about Dresden have received exactly the amount of attention they deserved given how little validity they have to anything I am truly concerned with here.
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Post by faustus5 on Apr 21, 2019 15:48:25 GMT
And Notre Dame is one of the reasons it attracts tourists given that it is the no.1 most visited attraction of France. You don't need more than common sense to understand the impact Notre Damn has on Prais and its economy given how the people from different walks of life have come to support its rebuilding.
I don't give a flying fuck about your personal intuitions or "common sense". I care about hard facts. You have none. You can't prove that the city would be negatively impacted if a museum dedicated to the ruins were built instead of this fake recreation.
And you know what? I don't care either way, ultimately. The resources spent on a purely symbolic pretend recreation could be spent on other projects that would also create economic advantages in Paris or elsewhere--economic advantages that might well be superior and increase the quality of lives for more people. You idiots are just making a fetish out of your attachment to this building, like an autistic child attached to a blanket. Grow the fuck up.
Notre Dame will, out of the blue, get more attention than the well-being of human beings because of ridiculous, childish, and absolutely immoral values possessed by you and other idiots in our culture. That's all that is going on here. People like you make me sick.
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Post by Aj_June on Apr 21, 2019 15:51:36 GMT
The restored buildings of Dresden do attract more tourists than as they were before: Monuments to the war. Still no documentation proving that a museum dedicated to the ruins of the cathedral would result in a grave, meaningful loss of revenue for the entire city of Paris as opposed to an expensive, purely symbolic pretend recreation. Got it.
This focus on tourism is, of course, simply a lame attempt to avoid the central point I have been making.
Sweetie pie, your "points" about Dresden have received exactly the amount of attention they deserved given how little validity they have to anything I am truly concerned with here.
Holy hell..The restored buildings are not just "pretend creations". Do not conflate facts with your childish opinions. In any case, the restored building of Dresden is working in attracting tourists. Notre Dame was itself in state of ruin at various times ( a lot of statues were destroyed during the French revolution) and was restored during different times. For instance, it was refurbished during the times of Napolean and after the success of Hugo's famous work.
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Post by Aj_June on Apr 21, 2019 15:56:10 GMT
n And Notre Dame is one of the reasons it attracts tourists given that it is the no.1 most visited attraction of France. You don't need more than common sense to understand the impact Notre Damn has on Prais and its economy given how the people from different walks of life have come to support its rebuilding.
I don't give a flying fuck about your personal intuitions or "common sense". I care about hard facts. You have none. You can't prove that the city would be negatively impacted if a museum dedicated to the ruins were built instead of this fake recreation.
And you know what? I don't care either way, ultimately. The resources spent on a purely symbolic pretend recreation could be spent on other projects that would also create economic advantages in Paris or elsewhere--economic advantages that might well be superior and increase the quality of lives for more people. You idiots are just making a fetish out of your attachment to this building, like an autistic child attached to a blanket. Grow the fuck up.
Notre Dame will, out of the blue, get more attention than the well-being of human beings because of ridiculous, childish, and absolutely immoral values possessed by you and other idiots in our culture. That's all that is going on here. People like you make me sick.
^^More lack of knowledge of demand and supply law shown by the uneducated hack. Doesn't understand the difference between facts and opinions and now believes other projects should be made and not the one which has chance of being made for obvious reasons. And as if other development projects are not happening and rebuilding of Notre Dame stops them from happening. Total ignorance of basic economics and where money flows in the real world. |
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Post by faustus5 on Apr 21, 2019 16:02:44 GMT
In any case, the restored building of Dresden is working in attracting tourists. Notre Dame was itself in state of ruin at various times ( a lot of statues were destroyed during the French revolution) and was restored during different times. Good for Dresden. Get back to me when you have solid numbers showing that a museum dedicated to the ruins would be such a negative alternative economically that I need to care.
But I know you won't and you can't.
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Post by phludowin on Apr 21, 2019 16:05:26 GMT
And you know what? I don't care either way, ultimately. The resources spent on a purely symbolic pretend recreation could be spent on other projects that would also create economic advantages in Paris or elsewhere--economic advantages that might well be superior and increase the quality of lives for more people. You idiots are just making a fetish out of your attachment to this building, like an autistic child attached to a blanket. Grow the fuck up.
Notre Dame will, out of the blue, get more attention than the well-being of human beings because of ridiculous, childish, and absolutely immoral values possessed by you and other idiots in our culture. That's all that is going on here. People like you make me sick.
^^More lack of knowledge of demand and supply law shown by the uneducated hack. Doesn't understand the difference between facts and opinions and now believes other projects should be made and not the one which has chance of being made for obvious reasons. And as if other development projects are not happening and rebuilding of Notre Dame stops them from happening. Total ignorance of basic economics and where money flows in the real world. So true. Case in point: The Louvre, the Eiffel Tower and the Centre Pompidou were all built long after the Notre Dame cathedral. All of them have become tourism magnets, but still the Notre Dame was the biggest attraction. However, I guess it would be possible to add new art to the old in Notre Dame. It doesn't have to be recreated exactly as it was before. This might be a challenge to modern artists. But since after the rebuilding, the maintenance will be paid by the French taxpayer, I guess they should be asked. If the majority of people in France want the cathedral as it was before (or as it would have been if the renovation works had processed as planned), then that's the way it should be.
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Post by Aj_June on Apr 21, 2019 16:06:03 GMT
In any case, the restored building of Dresden is working in attracting tourists. Notre Dame was itself in state of ruin at various times ( a lot of statues were destroyed during the French revolution) and was restored during different times. Good for Dresden. Get back to me when you have solid numbers showing that a museum dedicated to the ruins would be such a negative alternative economically that I need to care.
But I know you won't and you can't.
You already got evidence from the case of Dresden and that was not enough for you. Your intention is to ask for things that are yet to happen in the future and troll on basis of that. Yeah, I know you are unable to gather things from existing reports such as phludowin already provided.
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