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Post by faustus5 on Apr 21, 2019 16:09:16 GMT
^^More lack of knowledge of demand and supply law shown by the uneducated hack. Total ignorance of basic economics and where money flows in the real world. More avoidance of the underlying moral issues by an immoral piece of shit with a mentally imbalanced attachment to a fucking building and no concern for actual human lives.
Doesn't understand that this issue is all about the choices powerful, rich people actually make versus what they should make, for moral and ethical reasons you are too fucking stupid and immoral to grasp.
As if the sudden, coordinated activity by the rich and powerful to restore a fucking building was ever going to occur to actually help human beings materially. As if, now that those resources are devoted to a fucking building, they will still be available to actually help human beings materially. What a fucking moron.
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Post by faustus5 on Apr 21, 2019 16:10:51 GMT
You already got evidence from the case of Dresden and that was not enough for you. Correct. Because you have no data, just your emotional bullshit because a burnt building made you cry but starving people are beneath your concerns.
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Post by Aj_June on Apr 21, 2019 16:11:18 GMT
^^More lack of knowledge of demand and supply law shown by the uneducated hack. Total ignorance of basic economics and where money flows in the real world. More avoidance of the underlying moral issues by an immoral piece of shit with a mentally imbalanced attachment to a fucking building and no concern for actual human lives.
Doesn't understand that this issue is all about the choices powerful, rich people actually make versus what they should make, for moral and ethical reasons you are too fucking stupid and immoral to grasp.
As if the sudden, coordinated activity by the rich and powerful to restore a fucking building was ever going to occur to actually help human beings materially. As if, now that those resources are devoted to a fucking building, they will still be available to actually help human beings materially. What a fucking moron.
^^More inane nonsense from a person who doesn't even know the other person. Lacks education and makes moral judgment about others all the time. Especially about people he doesn't know.
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Post by Aj_June on Apr 21, 2019 16:13:35 GMT
You already got evidence from the case of Dresden and that was not enough for you. Correct. Because you have no data, just your emotional bullshit because a burnt building made you cry but starving people are beneath your concerns. Doesn't understand how economics work and ignores data that has been provided. Takes shelter in relentless trolling. Doesn't understand how revenues from historical buildings help people and promote the growth of local businesses and communities.
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Post by faustus5 on Apr 21, 2019 16:23:17 GMT
Doesn't understand how economics work and ignores data that has been provided. , shit for brains. All you do is ignore the substance of every point I make, merely because you are attached to an ideology favoring the wealthy and powerful over the rest of humanity. Pretty fucking sick.
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Post by Aj_June on Apr 21, 2019 16:34:21 GMT
Doesn't understand how economics work and ignores data that has been provided. , shit for brains. All you do is ignore the substance of every point I make, merely because you are attached to an ideology favoring the wealthy and powerful over the rest of humanity. Pretty fucking sick. Evidence & data was provided regarding how a rebuilt building helped increase tourist numbers. Your absurd demand of asking things from future is idiotic. Your shameless behaviour of calling people immoral based on your stupidity is now touching fanatic levels now, Cody equivalent.
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Post by faustus5 on Apr 21, 2019 16:41:42 GMT
Evidence & data was provided regarding how a rebuilt building helped increase tourist numbers. Utterly irrelevant data, shit for brains. Businesses and city planners do forecasting studies all the time, shit for brain. None has been done to prove that my alternative proposal would be economically harmful as compared to what is planned, shit for brains. My point here is that you have nothing to stand on when you make the economic argument, shit for brains. Nothing. I'm calling pieces of shit like you immoral based on your factual lack of concern for justice and economic fairness. You are all the evidence one needs.
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Post by Aj_June on Apr 21, 2019 16:46:28 GMT
Evidence & data was provided regarding how a rebuilt building helped increase tourist numbers. Utterly irrelevant data, shit for brains. Businesses and city planners do forecasting studies all the time, shit for brain. None has been done to prove that my alternative proposal would be economically harmful as compared to what is planned, shit for brains. My point here is that you have nothing to stand on when you make the economic argument, shit for brains. Nothing.I'm calling pieces of shit like you immoral based on your factual lack of concern for justice and economic fairness. You are all the evidence one needs. Holy hell, Arlon level of Dunning Kruger on display.  Within these 5 days none has come with forecasting studies to disprove the alternate proposal by Faustus the great. Keep on giving gems like that. And keep assuming your heightened sense of importance, funny man.
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Post by You_Got_A_Stew_Goin_Baby on Apr 21, 2019 18:11:12 GMT
This is a good thread.
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Post by general313 on Apr 21, 2019 18:18:01 GMT
Utterly irrelevant data, shit for brains. Businesses and city planners do forecasting studies all the time, shit for brain. None has been done to prove that my alternative proposal would be economically harmful as compared to what is planned, shit for brains. My point here is that you have nothing to stand on when you make the economic argument, shit for brains. Nothing.I'm calling pieces of shit like you immoral based on your factual lack of concern for justice and economic fairness. You are all the evidence one needs. Holy hell, Arlon level of Dunning Kruger on display. Within these 5 days none has come with forecasting studies to disprove the alternate proposal by Faustus the great. Keep on giving gems like that. And keep assuming your heightened sense of importance, funny man. I think a comparison of Faustus with Heeyyyy is more on the spot. Arlon and Faustus do seem to have inflated self estimations that are at least a bit divorced from reality, but Arlon at least maintains civility and doesn't descend into childish name-calling. Faustus, on the other hand has made arguments replete with "fucking", "moron", and "shit for brains" that perhaps exceed even Heeyyyy's level. What's most surprising to me is that Faustus, evidently reasonably well educated at least in topics like philosophy, feels inadequate to simple making logical arguments that one would expect from an educated person and gets angry and agitated and resorts to unbridled personal insults. That's something that doesn't surprise me coming from someone like Heyyyyy, but sure does coming from Faustus. I'm sure this behavior from Faustus has ruined any credibility he may have had with thoughtful readers of this thread to make his arguments rationally. Perhaps I should prepare for more "shit for brains" remarks from Faustus directed at me.
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Post by faustus5 on Apr 21, 2019 18:54:45 GMT
Within these 5 days none has come with forecasting studies to disprove the alternate proposal by Faustus the great. I'm not expecting that anyone is going to propose a museum as an alternative, though someone should (and maybe someone has already and I just don't know). Therefore, I'm not expecting this imaginary study to actually take place.
My point is that your constant assertions that restoring the cathedral is economically essential, or that alternatives would be meaningfully harmful by comparison, has absolutely no basis in any facts of economics that you can and will be able to site. Period. Only if someone undertook a study of various solutions beyond complete restoration would anyone have a leg to stand on no matter what position they took. You don't know, I don't know, no one knows.
I readily grant that it is a tourist draw. I readily grant that its restoration would maintain its draw as a tourist destination. None of this matters, because there are alternatives to a complete restoration which could potentially offer the same or better economic benefit. There's the museum idea that Ned suggested, which I know has worked elsewhere, and there is also the (shocking!) notion that the church could pay for the restoration itself and these billionaires could combine their wealth on a different, additional project, which morally is something they should have done on their own by now. Looks like everyone wins in this scenario, doesn't it? So why can't you get behind it?
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Post by faustus5 on Apr 21, 2019 18:59:19 GMT
What's most surprising to me is that Faustus, evidently reasonably well educated at least in topics like philosophy, feels inadequate to simple making logical arguments that one would expect from an educated person and gets angry and agitated and resorts to unbridled personal insults. I did make logical, rational arguments and continue to do so. If they go over your head, that's your problem, not mine. The anger comes from my complete impatience with people being morons in this thread and not paying attention to or dealing with said logical, rational arguments. I have a low tolerance threshold for stupidity in people, especially when I had previously thought they were pretty smart and were on the side of human decency.
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Post by goz on Apr 21, 2019 21:33:05 GMT
And it can't happen just anywhere. Only on the spot where the original building stood. This is nothing more than symbolism and pure, childish emotional attachment. I value human lives more. Too bad you do not. Unlike the usual me, I am a fence sitter on this, so I hope you don't accuse me of lacking 'moral compass'. I studied as an art historian (amongst other things in a liberal Arts degree) and so I am a follower and lover of the arts. I am also a pragmatist, socialist and humanist. My suggestion for a joint fund reflects this and an acknowledgment by Macron etc that the time in which this rebuild occurs is unimportant and a more important issue is to make this a joint opportunity for restoring and bettering people's lives both material and spiritual... a rare opportunity if you ask me!
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Post by goz on Apr 21, 2019 21:46:01 GMT
Holy hell, Arlon level of Dunning Kruger on display. Within these 5 days none has come with forecasting studies to disprove the alternate proposal by Faustus the great. Keep on giving gems like that. And keep assuming your heightened sense of importance, funny man. I think a comparison of Faustus with Heeyyyy is more on the spot. Arlon and Faustus do seem to have inflated self estimations that are at least a bit divorced from reality, but Arlon at least maintains civility and doesn't descend into childish name-calling. Faustus, on the other hand has made arguments replete with "fucking", "moron", and "shit for brains" that perhaps exceed even Heeyyyy's level. What's most surprising to me is that Faustus, evidently reasonably well educated at least in topics like philosophy, feels inadequate to simple making logical arguments that one would expect from an educated person and gets angry and agitated and resorts to unbridled personal insults. That's something that doesn't surprise me coming from someone like Heyyyyy, but sure does coming from Faustus. I'm sure this behavior from Faustus has ruined any credibility he may have had with thoughtful readers of this thread to make his arguments rationally. Perhaps I should prepare for more "shit for brains" remarks from Faustus directed at me. Unfortunately I have to agree. Previously I had been a Faustus fan in the way that he takes on the real' shit for brains' on this board of which there are a few, however, arguing in this manner with other intelligent people who have a differing perspective is a little off putting.
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Post by faustus5 on Apr 22, 2019 10:14:32 GMT
This is nothing more than symbolism and pure, childish emotional attachment. I value human lives more. Too bad you do not. Unlike the usual me, I am a fence sitter on this, so I hope you don't accuse me of lacking 'moral compass'. I studied as an art historian (amongst other things in a liberal Arts degree) and so I am a follower and lover of the arts. I am also a pragmatist, socialist and humanist. My suggestion for a joint fund reflects this and an acknowledgment by Macron etc that the time in which this rebuild occurs is unimportant and a more important issue is to make this a joint opportunity for restoring and bettering people's lives both material and spiritual... a rare opportunity if you ask me! Sounds reasonable. My central point remains that the billionaires who have suddenly "discovered" the notion of coordinated, mass charity in this case are doing so only for publicity and completely cynical, selfish reasons. My public radio station's business program devoted a whole segment to this phenomena. They do it with the expectation that down the road, politicians will reward them with more opportunities to make money they don't need or deserve. If they had any concern for humanity in general, they would do this all the time and direct it to the betterment of actual human lives. Less splashy, less likely to get headlines, better for the human race.
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Post by politicidal on Apr 23, 2019 0:54:31 GMT
Reads like a broken record.
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Post by goz on Apr 23, 2019 2:13:35 GMT
Reads like a broken record. What do you mean? It is a serious question about where mankind allocates funds and how and where they are spent! Everyone on this thread has voiced their varying opinions. Do you have one instead of bagging others'?
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Post by drystyx on Apr 23, 2019 6:52:53 GMT
I have to question myself when I find myself agreeing with loonies, but I find myself agreeing in spirit with Goz and Faustus.
Notre Dame was just a building.
When the news came out, I was shocked not by the burning building, but by the lack of news about whether people were being hurt. How could a building be more important in news than human lives? It couldn't to anyone who was not possessed.
The question on rebuilding the structure is a question of its long term value in helping those who suffer. Is it a long term body of Christ to be anointed with expensive oils to do long term healing? No, it's a mercantile luxury meant to turn the temple into a market that Jesus attacked with a rod.
Now I enjoyed seeing the cathedral in CHARADE. It was great, but it's gone now.
It's unfortunate that people donate money for such opulence instead of for true charity. Hopefully, such donations aren't tax exemptions. People who donate to rebuild a museum instead of to help humans who are suffering, those people will answer to the lord some day, and they will be known as poor stewards.
We have many poor stewards on Earth, and they were the worst choices for stewardship. This is proven, and it's why most thinking Christians lean towards dualism and Gnosticism.
I pray I would be a better steward over riches than to use those riches to simply rebuild some useless building.
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Post by goz on Apr 23, 2019 20:31:27 GMT
I have to question myself when I find myself agreeing with loonies, but I find myself agreeing in spirit with Goz and Faustus. Notre Dame was just a building. When the news came out, I was shocked not by the burning building, but by the lack of news about whether people were being hurt. How could a building be more important in news than human lives? It couldn't to anyone who was not possessed. The question on rebuilding the structure is a question of its long term value in helping those who suffer. Is it a long term body of Christ to be anointed with expensive oils to do long term healing? No, it's a mercantile luxury meant to turn the temple into a market that Jesus attacked with a rod. Now I enjoyed seeing the cathedral in CHARADE. It was great, but it's gone now. It's unfortunate that people donate money for such opulence instead of for true charity. Hopefully, such donations aren't tax exemptions. People who donate to rebuild a museum instead of to help humans who are suffering, those people will answer to the lord some day, and they will be known as poor stewards. We have many poor stewards on Earth, and they were the worst choices for stewardship. This is proven, and it's why most thinking Christians lean towards dualism and Gnosticism. I pray I would be a better steward over riches than to use those riches to simply rebuild some useless building. As usual, with people who claim to know what I think, you have misrepresented my thoughts as presented on this thread, somewhat. I am for re-building Notre Dame cathedral, however think it should be under some specific and important conditions. 1. For every euro donated towards the re-build there is a euro placed in a fund (such as Live Aid etc hopefully under supervision of an international body such as WHO) 2. The rebuild is not rushed and there is consultation about its methodology. For me I would want a complete rebuild of the original HOWEVER using modern materials and technology where applicable ie in the roof NOT to use beautiful old growth oak timber as was used in the original. I would NOT want some modern new design of the steeple. 3. ALSO as far as possible there should be in other areas, a preservation of old and historic crafts and techniques such as stone masonry and stained glass, creating both employment and revisiting of such wonderful human skills. 4. This is a unique opportunity on many levels. It need co-operation not division and a vision to produce something wonderful and sensitive to the needs of the people, out of the ashes. 5. Macron and billionaires should not adopt this tragedy as a means to 'blow their own trumpets' either financially or politically. I believe there should be two foundations set up. a. the Notre Dame Restoration Fund. b. the Notre Dame Charitable Foundation.
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Post by maya55555 on Apr 23, 2019 20:42:21 GMT
drystyx
When I first heard this news, I heard that no one was hurt. This building is more than the history, it is a symbol for humanity as a UNESCO WORLD HERITAGE site. It was not a local 7/11.
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