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Post by goz on Apr 24, 2019 23:43:50 GMT
So the Bible is much too focused on "The Big Picture" to worry about telling the Israelites, "Do not own slaves". Not gonna fly. "The Big Picture" didn't distract the Bible (or God) from laying down hundreds of rules (dietary, clothes, rituals, etc.) for the Israelites to obey. gods-word-first.org/bible-study/613commandments.html It's hard to argue that prohibiting slavery doesn't make the cut in "the lives we live as temporary and relatively meaningless in the scope of an eternal universe" when prohibiting wearing clothes of mixed fabrics does.
 The point is that being slavery is just as ultimately meaningless as being a carpenter... or a soldier who has been drafted... What you do for a living - whether as a free man or a slave - doesn't make you who you are: Be the best you whatever you are or your lot in life. You can be slave... and still not eat pork.. or mix fabrics.  Being a slave owner is ultimately no different than being a CEO or business owner: Having riches and power over others doesn't make you a good person. Be kind and decent to the people beneath you.. whether you pay them out right or they owe their life itself to you. And... whatever we are in this world, slave or owner... It's short-lived compared to the one that is to come.... Biblically speaking. Hell, Biblically speaking...We're all slaves to death. Sure: Slavery sucks. I'd just thank God - if He existed - that I ain't one. Hell... I'd thank him even more if I never had to work for a living at all. Can you seriously not see the difference between slavery and professions? 
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Post by Vegas on Apr 25, 2019 2:05:06 GMT
Can you seriously not see the difference between slavery and professions? Sure... Citing the similarities doesn't mean that you don't see the differences... And just to be clear: Nobody here is pro-slavery.
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Post by goz on Apr 25, 2019 2:38:37 GMT
Can you seriously not see the difference between slavery and professions? Sure... Citing the similarities doesn't mean that you don't see the differences... And just to be clear: Nobody here is pro-slavery. That is not 'the point'. Can you not see that there is one MAJOR difference? and that any similarities are totally inconsequential?
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Post by Vegas on Apr 25, 2019 3:09:46 GMT
Sure... Citing the similarities doesn't mean that you don't see the differences... And just to be clear: Nobody here is pro-slavery.
Can you not see that there is one MAJOR difference? and that any similarities are totally inconsequential? Sure there is a major difference... but, on a grand scale, some similarities aren't inconsequential... in some regards. 
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Post by goz on Apr 25, 2019 3:52:10 GMT
That is not 'the point'.
Can you not see that there is one MAJOR difference? and that any similarities are totally inconsequential? Sure there is a major difference... but, on a grand scale, some similarities aren't inconsequential... in some regards. No...just no. Slavery is the ownership of other humans.
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Post by Vegas on Apr 25, 2019 4:19:53 GMT
Sure there is a major difference... but, on a grand scale, some similarities aren't inconsequential... in some regards. No...just no. Slavery is the ownership of other humans. 
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Post by goz on Apr 25, 2019 4:27:22 GMT
No...just no. Slavery is the ownership of other humans. Then in no way, shape or form could it possibly be likened to ANY kind of profession job or pastime.
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Post by Vegas on Apr 25, 2019 5:36:13 GMT
Then in no way, shape or form could it possibly be likened to ANY kind of profession job or pastime. Except for the ways that it is.... Employment absolutely can be slavery of a sort. More properly we would call it serfdom. Serfdom at its most basic point is where a person has just enough to get by (survive) but nothing left over to advance themselves with or save for any retirement. This IS the real life situation for the vast majority of anyone working part time or even full time at anything up to 1.5x minimum wage.
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Post by goz on Apr 25, 2019 7:29:36 GMT
Then in no way, shape or form could it possibly be likened to ANY kind of profession job or pastime. Except for the ways that it is.... Employment absolutely can be slavery of a sort. More properly we would call it serfdom. Serfdom at its most basic point is where a person has just enough to get by (survive) but nothing left over to advance themselves with or save for any retirement. This IS the real life situation for the vast majority of anyone working part time or even full time at anything up to 1.5x minimum wage. What absolute total and unadulterated BULLSHIT~
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Post by Vegas on Apr 25, 2019 11:39:39 GMT
Except for the ways that it is.... Employment absolutely can be slavery of a sort. More properly we would call it serfdom. Serfdom at its most basic point is where a person has just enough to get by (survive) but nothing left over to advance themselves with or save for any retirement. This IS the real life situation for the vast majority of anyone working part time or even full time at anything up to 1.5x minimum wage. Nobody is saying that it is EXACTLY the same, silly... What?.. You've never read about the conditions at an iPhone factory?
How the iPhone Helps Perpetuate Modern-Day Slavery
NY Times Investigation Confirms That Apple’s Factories In China Are Basically Slave Labor Camps
Apple (and America’s) Chinese Slave Labor Problem  - "I don't like comparing things to other things! M-raw!"
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Post by Vegas on Apr 25, 2019 12:30:40 GMT
I'm gonna wrap this up... as this conversation is getting muddled with side issues... and I don't really care that much about this this topic.
The point is:
Yes...If Apple decided to pay their workers a decent wage they wouldn't be modern day slaves.. They'd be free... something a real slave had very little opportunity to actually be.
And that's a major difference.
But.. if horses had horns, they'd be unicorns... They don't pay their workers decent pay... and they are modern day slaves.
The fact remains that economic conditions will always exist that makes these arrangements possible... for some even their only hope of living.
The same can be said of the actual practice of slavery - actually owning the worker, as opposed to just paying so little to the point that you do.. even more-so in the Biblical past when economic opportunities weren't as abundant as they are now...
I do not like slavery as a concept... Seems vile to me.
I just don't see The Bible trying to regulate that ever-present in the past practice as the ultimate end-all-be-all "IT'S EVIL!! EEEEEVVVVILL!!" as some see it as... but, I know that most of these same people are just the "BIBLE BAD! BIBLE BAD!" morons who just repeat their idiotic mantra at all religious topics...
At this point, I see Apple as being faaaaaarrr more evil than The Bible....
….and how many of these people that are now arguing about the evils of The Bible actually own an iPhone? iPad? iWhatever?
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Post by goz on Apr 25, 2019 21:31:36 GMT
I'm gonna wrap this up... as this conversation is getting muddled with side issues... and I don't really care that much about this this topic. The point is: Yes...If Apple decided to pay their workers a decent wage they wouldn't be modern day slaves.. They'd be free... something a real slave had very little opportunity to actually be. And that's a major difference. But.. if horses had horns, they'd be unicorns... They don't pay their workers decent pay... and they are modern day slaves. The fact remains that economic conditions will always exist that makes these arrangements possible... for some even their only hope of living. The same can be said of the actual practice of slavery - actually owning the worker, as opposed to just paying so little to the point that you do.. even more-so in the Biblical past when economic opportunities weren't as abundant as they are now... I do not like slavery as a concept... Seems vile to me. I just don't see The Bible trying to regulate that ever-present in the past practice as the ultimate end-all-be-all "IT'S EVIL!! EEEEEVVVVILL!!" as some see it as... but, I know that most of these same people are just the "BIBLE BAD! BIBLE BAD!" morons who just repeat their idiotic mantra at all religious topics... At this point, I see Apple as being faaaaaarrr more evil than The Bible.... ….and how many of these people that are now arguing about the evils of The Bible actually own an i Phone? i Pad? i Whatever? Red herring arguments noted. Do Apple 'own' their employees? In the legal (protected by law as slaves in USA were), physical ( do they live on site and not allowed to leave?) and sociological ( are they perceived by society as being 'owned')  ?? No. So this is a BULLSHIT argument.
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Post by Vegas on Apr 26, 2019 2:55:18 GMT
I'm gonna wrap this up... as this conversation is getting muddled with side issues... and I don't really care that much about this this topic. The point is: Yes...If Apple decided to pay their workers a decent wage they wouldn't be modern day slaves.. They'd be free... something a real slave had very little opportunity to actually be. And that's a major difference. But.. if horses had horns, they'd be unicorns... They don't pay their workers decent pay... and they are modern day slaves. The fact remains that economic conditions will always exist that makes these arrangements possible... for some even their only hope of living. The same can be said of the actual practice of slavery - actually owning the worker, as opposed to just paying so little to the point that you do.. even more-so in the Biblical past when economic opportunities weren't as abundant as they are now... I do not like slavery as a concept... Seems vile to me. I just don't see The Bible trying to regulate that ever-present in the past practice as the ultimate end-all-be-all "IT'S EVIL!! EEEEEVVVVILL!!" as some see it as... but, I know that most of these same people are just the "BIBLE BAD! BIBLE BAD!" morons who just repeat their idiotic mantra at all religious topics... At this point, I see Apple as being faaaaaarrr more evil than The Bible.... ….and how many of these people that are now arguing about the evils of The Bible actually own an i Phone? i Pad? i Whatever? Red herring arguments noted. Do Apple 'own' their employees? In the legal (protected by law as slaves in USA were), physical ( do they live on site and not allowed to leave?) and sociological ( are they perceived by society as being 'owned') ??
No. Yes... That's the difference... which is already acknowledged in the post that you are quoting. It doesn't mean the situations can never be comparable. Take that up with every news outlet that makes that very comparison. 
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Post by goz on Apr 26, 2019 3:34:24 GMT
Red herring arguments noted. Do Apple 'own' their employees? In the legal (protected by law as slaves in USA were), physical ( do they live on site and not allowed to leave?) and sociological ( are they perceived by society as being 'owned') ??
No. Yes... That's the difference... which is already acknowledged in the post that you are quoting. It doesn't mean the situations can never be comparable. Take that up with every news outlet that makes that very comparison. No, I am taking it up with you. The euphemism 'wage slaves' is NOT in fact actual slavery. You know this, right? It is NEVER comparable for the reasons outlined previously. DUH!
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Post by Vegas on Apr 26, 2019 9:13:42 GMT
Yes... That's the difference... which is already acknowledged in the post that you are quoting. No, I am taking it up with you. The euphemism 'wage slaves' is NOT in fact actual slavery. You know this, right? It is NEVER comparable for the reasons outlined previously. DUH! Yes... it's not exactly the same... Only mentioned that in just about every post... That's why it's called a "comparison" and not just "the same exact thing"... Yes... It is comparable... It can be compared.. and has been compared... repeatedly... by numerous people other than me...
You not liking the comparison isn't my problem. Try therapy.
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Post by goz on Apr 28, 2019 0:30:15 GMT
No, I am taking it up with you. The euphemism 'wage slaves' is NOT in fact actual slavery. You know this, right? It is NEVER comparable for the reasons outlined previously. DUH! Yes... it's not exactly the same... Only mentioned that in just about every post... That's why it's called a "comparison" and not just "the same exact thing"... Yes... It is comparable... It can be compared.. and has been compared... repeatedly... by numerous people other than me...
You not liking the comparison isn't my problem. Try therapy. Vegas. This is NOT rocket surgery. You CANNOT compare wage labour and slavery AT ALL... because of 'duh' WAGES.
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Post by Vegas on Apr 28, 2019 3:14:16 GMT
Yes... it's not exactly the same... Only mentioned that in just about every post... That's why it's called a "comparison" and not just "the same exact thing"... Yes... It is comparable... It can be compared.. and has been compared... repeatedly... by numerous people other than me...
You not liking the comparison isn't my problem. Try therapy. Vegas. This is NOT rocket surgery. You CANNOT compare wage labour and slavery AT ALL... because of 'duh' WAGES. Nothing is ever absolutely beyond comparison.... Even when comparing apples to oranges... at least, it can be said that they are both fruit. With that said: When those WAGES are inherently lost to the cost of living and you are left with nothing... or even less than nothing.. and you become trapped in your own poverty that you can't break free from... it has become, in effect... very much like slavery.
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Post by goz on Apr 28, 2019 6:45:33 GMT
Vegas. This is NOT rocket surgery. You CANNOT compare wage labour and slavery AT ALL... because of 'duh' WAGES. Nothing is ever absolutely beyond comparison.... Even when comparing apples to oranges... at least, it can be said that they are both fruit. With that said: When those WAGES are inherently lost to the cost of living and you are left with nothing... or even less than nothing.. and you become trapped in your own poverty that you can't break free from... it has become, in effect... very much like slavery. AGAIN NO, absolutely not. NOT at all like slavery. In this scenario you still can leave your place of employment both as a worker to change employment and physically at the end of a day and the employer doesn't own you like slaves were with the support of the government so that a slave had NO physical bodily autonomy or right of ANY kind. ...we already said this...are you stupid or something, not to see these essential differences?
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Post by Vegas on Apr 28, 2019 7:52:54 GMT
Nothing is ever absolutely beyond comparison.... Even when comparing apples to oranges... at least, it can be said that they are both fruit. With that said: When those WAGES are inherently lost to the cost of living and you are left with nothing... or even less than nothing.. and you become trapped in your own poverty that you can't break free from... it has become, in effect... very much like slavery. AGAIN NO, absolutely not. NOT at all like slavery. In this scenario you still can leave your place of employment both as a worker to change employment and physically at the end of a day and the employer doesn't own you like slaves were with the support of the government so that a slave had NO physical bodily autonomy or right of ANY kind. ...we already said this...are you stupid or something, not to see these essential differences? Yes.... WE HAVE ALREADY ESTABLISHED THE BAISC DIFFERENCE, YOU DUMB FUCKING TWAT. That doesn't prevent everybody else, who isn't a dumbfuck lunatic like you, from making that comparison (not that they are the same thing) for the last 2,000 years. Sorry you're a retard who doesn't comprehend how things that that are different can be likened to each other. Once again: Try therapy.
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Apr 28, 2019 9:06:37 GMT
Except for the ways that it is.... Employment absolutely can be slavery of a sort. More properly we would call it serfdom. Serfdom at its most basic point is where a person has just enough to get by (survive) but nothing left over to advance themselves with or save for any retirement. This IS the real life situation for the vast majority of anyone working part time or even full time at anything up to 1.5x minimum wage. What absolute total and unadulterated BULLSHIT~ 
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