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Post by Skaathar on May 9, 2019 19:40:23 GMT
Firstly I'd like to say that I liked Endgame and consider it a high-end MCU movie just a tier below their greatest movies.
That said, I'd like to air out some nitpicks I have with the movie. Some of these have already been discussed in other threads (either by me or others) but I wanted to compile them into one list. Some of these are very light, shallow nitpicks, some are a bit more major... but none are truly dealbreakers.
In no particular order:
1. Stark making a glove for the Infinity Stones - what was the point of Thanos going to Nidavellir and threatening its people so he could have an IG made if he could have simply made the glove himself? We know that Thanos uses steel for his weapons that seem stronger than Vibranium, and we know his team is smart enough to replicate pym particles and such, so I'm pretty sure he could create a glove at least as durable as IM's.
2. Thanos replicating pym particles - I get that Thanos and his team are considered quite smart, but could they at least have put more time and effort into replicating something that is considered incredibly complex and rare?
3. Thor's treatment - already discussed multiple times in different threads. Hated the way he was made to become so useless.
4. Hulk's treatment - also discussed in different threads. Even more useless than Thor.
5. Black Widow's death - way too early. Considering that this was the best version of Black Widow we've seen, it irritates me that they killed her off so soon.
6. A-Force scene - I like the idea of an all girl scene, just didn't like how forced and tacky this seemed. Could have been done way better.
7. Thanos' power upgrade - when a younger Thanos with no Infinity stones seems just as competent if not more so than Thanos with infinity stones, it just ruins the narrative. Thanos should have struggled a lot harder against the MCU trinity than he did.
8. Captain Marvel's deus ex machina - I liked how Carol's character was portrayed in this movie but I hated how she becomes the goddess of convenience. The MCU definitely needs to tone down her Superman syndrome.
9. Cap handing over his shield to Falcon - already discussed in a different thread. I feel like this should have gone to Bucky, or if not then we should have at least had a decent moment with Cap and Bucky.
10. No mid-movie battle/fight - we had that brief skirmish with the two Captain Americas but that was it. Made the middle of the movie a bit dragging.
11. Where's Sharon Carter? - she's literally not even mentioned in this movie. And while I'm happy for Cap that he finally ended up with Peggy, I'm kinda pissed that he and Sharon never really got a chance to get it on.
I'll add more as I think of them.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2019 20:59:32 GMT
Unless they're an issue I have with the story, my nitpicks are usually pretty tiny.
I loved it when Captain America held the hammer, but a second or two later when he's twirling it Thor style while running to Thanos, I thought it looked so ridiculous. But it's just the type of small thing I laugh at privately. These movies are essentially incapable of making me angry.
Here's one about Captain America. I have mixed feelings about his end. I'm still deliberating over whether it was a better end for his character than it was for us as the viewer, which is selfish on my part, but it's my brain so I stand by it.
I've gotten the feeling as early as Infinity War that Thanos' team is very advanced. I got it when a lowly service technician was putting Nebula back together. It seemed like a very difficult task to reassemble a person with mechanical parts back together, but one of Thanos' people was putting her back together like it's a mundane task. Going back further to Guardians of the Galaxy, it seems like Nebula was once a person like Gamora (minus the blue), and that her continued existence is just a taste of the science and technology Thanos' team seem to have on lock. Thanos' ship is another testament to their technological advances.
If time is compressed in the alternate timeline(s), then it could have taken Thanos' 2014 team months, perhaps a year, to replicate the sophistication of the Pym particle before showing up in the main timeline in what seems like only minutes.
Black Widow...I was disappointed she didn't die in Infinity War. That has now changed because of Endgame. I left Infinity War with the sense that we're in one of 14 million plus realities where Thanos is defeated, which means it's down to the wire in ways that are too important to let any character that isn't a heavy, heavy hitter fight Thanos. Even Captain America is stretching it because he's just an embellished man; Thanos didn't fight him in Infinity War as much as he just put him down. So it's down to the nitty gritty, which means heavier hitters are required than Black Widow. But in Endgame, she redeemed her survival (in my opinion) by helping out in a way that few humans could possibly be capable of achieving. Her death was a critical, albeit not the first or the last, step in saving the universe. I agree that it seemed a little sudden in the movie, but it wasn't too soon in the grand scheme of the 7 or 8 movies she's been in since 2010. I know what you're saying though.
I didn't have the same confidence in Captain Marvel's survival. I think there's a concept to the effect of plot immunity, the criticism that her life is protected so the plot can continue, but I didn't get that same sense. I thought for sure she was going to die on bravado alone. I thought she was going to be the first to die when she went down to scope Thanos' new planet for recon. And later, during the final battle, not only did I initially think Thanos killed her with the power stone, I thought he was going to rip her arm clean off her body like an insect when he caught her. It's worth noting how little consistency there is in the confidence of Captain Marvel's powers. Her death made as much sense to me as Captain America's death in Infinity War, neither of which happened.
My feelings about Hulk and Thor are mixed. On the one hand, rebooting Hulk's character kept Thanos dangerous. The effects of his fight with Thanos were never undone. It really took some getting used to, especially in the diner. I'm not kidding, if you've never seen or known Hulk could be like that (which I did not) then it's kind of jarring and a bold choice. It played like a new character, since it wasn't Bruce Banner or the Hulk as they were known before this movie. Thor's reboot was interesting too, and I have friends who loved it so it's kind of contagious. I still prefer the combination of Ragnarok/Infinity War Thor as the best Thor. Short-haired Thor, essentially.
Captain America really is more complicated, in my opinion, than people give him credit for. I believe that his crush on Sharon was sincere, but after learning her identity, I think he couldn't divorce the concept that being around Sharon was as close as he could get to being around Peggy. Peggy hasn't been seen for how many movies? But it all came back to their love in the end.
I was intrigued by the fact that Stark knew Alexander Pierce. It was kind of sobering in the flashbacks, particularly at Stark's tower, to see just how quickly and effectively Hydra took control of the situation right under the Avenger's nose, in their most triumphant moment after the battle of New York.
I consider Endgame a high end MCU movie too. I think it's in their top tier, if near the bottom. Even the top tiers need a movie at the bottom, and I don't know if I'd even put it last. If not for a couple of things I personally think they could have done differently, I would say it's their best work, but alas, professor Hulk, Burger King Thor and elderly Captain America give me pause.
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Post by sdrew13163 on May 9, 2019 22:19:06 GMT
You brought up some things I never even thought about. I hate nitpicking movies, but some of those are genuinely irritating.
Like the fact they just seemingly forgot about Sharon Carter even though she and Cap made out in Civil War is nothing but bad, lazy writing. They obviously decided they had no use for her character anymore and just thought we'd all forget. They almost succeeded!
I know I've mentioned this before, but surely this was not the initial version of the Endgame script that we saw. Rewatch the final half hour of Infinity War and then see this movie. Infinity War sets up an entirely different movie. Thanos is more or less a plot device for a big fight at the end of this one, but the end of IW obviously implies that he will play a far bigger role than we actually got.
That's blatant disrespect and disregard for IW. I honestly wonder if there was an original version the execs didn't like so they said to make something that the general audience would connect with.
The more I think about this movie the more I dislike it.
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Post by dazz on May 10, 2019 2:14:49 GMT
Firstly I'd like to say that I liked Endgame and consider it a high-end MCU movie just a tier below their greatest movies. That said, I'd like to air out some nitpicks I have with the movie. Some of these have already been discussed in other threads (either by me or others) but I wanted to compile them into one list. Some of these are very light, shallow nitpicks, some are a bit more major... but none are truly dealbreakers. In no particular order: 1. Stark making a glove for the Infinity Stones - what was the point of Thanos going to Nidavellir and threatening its people so he could have an IG made if he could have simply made the glove himself? We know that Thanos uses steel for his weapons that seem stronger than Vibranium, and we know his team is smart enough to replicate pym particles and such, so I'm pretty sure he could create a glove at least as durable as IM's. 2. Thanos replicating pym particles - I get that Thanos and his team are considered quite smart, but could they at least have put more time and effort into replicating something that is considered incredibly complex and rare? 3. Thor's treatment - already discussed multiple times in different threads. Hated the way he was made to become so useless. 4. Hulk's treatment - also discussed in different threads. Even more useless than Thor. 5. Black Widow's death - way too early. Considering that this was the best version of Black Widow we've seen, it irritates me that they killed her off so soon. 6. A-Force scene - I like the idea of an all girl scene, just didn't like how forced and tacky this seemed. Could have been done way better. 7. Thanos' power upgrade - when a younger Thanos with no Infinity stones seems just as competent if not more so than Thanos with infinity stones, it just ruins the narrative. Thanos should have struggled a lot harder against the MCU trinity than he did. 8. Captain Marvel's deus ex machina - I liked how Carol's character was portrayed in this movie but I hated how she becomes the goddess of convenience. The MCU definitely needs to tone down her Superman syndrome. 9. Cap handing over his shield to Falcon - already discussed in a different thread. I feel like this should have gone to Bucky, or if not then we should have at least had a decent moment with Cap and Bucky. 10. No mid-movie battle/fight - we had that brief skirmish with the two Captain Americas but that was it. Made the middle of the movie a bit dragging. 11. Where's Sharon Carter? - she's literally not even mentioned in this movie. And while I'm happy for Cap that he finally ended up with Peggy, I'm kinda pissed that he and Sharon never really got a chance to get it on. I'll add more as I think of them. Yeah I think we all have our own nitpicks and our own head cannon for different things to explain it away, in regard to the ones you mentioned these are just my thoughts on them.
1: I think Tony building something that technically able to hold the stones is fine, but unlike the glove Thanos had his couldn't regulate the power of the stones, Thanos could hold all the stones at once fine, he was also shown being able to selectively use the stones on their own, with Tony's we see the power of the stones hurt the wearer even without using them, Tony was more protected in my mind because his suit regulated their regular power more, which you see in the broken parts of his suit, the energy from the stones is going through his amour, but would likely overwhelm him, also the gauntlet is just tougher than Stark tech, we see this as Thanos beats people with it, it doesn't, chip or crack at all, doesn't even dent, where as Stark's nano-tech does, also he had Rocket, Nebula & Thor whatever that's worth and their advanced knowledge to help find a down and dirty way to control the stones.
2: Yeah this I don't mind to much if we got a little more like Pym particles to them are nothing new but how Tony & the others used them was beyond them thanks to Scott's experience within the quantum realm, so whilst they could replicate the particles they couldn't replicate the time travel tech, they also had the Pym particle Nebula had so figuring out what that is would be easier vs. figuring out tech they had no access to, but more explanation wouldn't have hurt.
3 & 4: Eh I liked it, though I would have liked it more had Bruce gotten a showdown with Thanos at some point, like even in his Professor Hulk mode if angered enough he could go full rage Hulk, so a showdown with Thanos where Bruce being hurt and maybe less powerful than normal Hulk could be beat down a bit again but then he rages out partially heals more from using the gauntlet and manages to beat Thanos back a bit so we get another glimpse of classic Hulk or even have him go Grey or something during the big fight, having Hulk's power & Banners brains should have amounted to something which it sadly didn't in the film, nothing they did couldn't have been done besides the comedy aspects with a human Bruce & a normal Hulk later.
%: Personally I thought it was perfect timing, she wouldn't stand out in the final battle really and she was shown to be relatively weak and useless against Thanos and his army last time no need to rehash it, but there was nothing more impactful her character was going to do in the film so why not go there?
6: Yeah I feel the same way, personally I would have gone with it more like as Carol was flying away she went past each individual female hero more naturally, maybe have them fighting with their male counterparts or something but then the final shot of that sequence is Carol flying at the camera and all you see in her wake is A-Force, as that whole every female hero showing up to help Carol was so fucking cheesy, also stupid because outside of Valkyrie and Wanda none of them are even close to Carol's power scale, like seriously apart from those two none of them are going to be able to stop anything Captain Marvel isn't going to just laugh her arse off at and shrug to the side, considering Thanos nutted her full on and she didn't flinch.
7: Personally I see it as not that he's more powerful he's just more savage in this, Thanos is IW is a Thanos that lost his two "daughters" not in combat but that turned on him, so he's probably spent a lot of time reflecting on things, but unlike Thor who let himself go Thanos centred himself to the point of being a force of fucking nature, 2014 Thanos isn't that guy, he's a violent fucker wanting to hurt people, we see that in how easily 2018 Thanos picks Hulk apart, 2014 Thanos wasn't that way with the Avengers, he was brutal and savage in his figting, also 2018 Thanos was taking on the Avengers in their prime, 2014 Thanos is taking on an out of shape Thor, rusty Cap and a older Tony, this makes it more logical imo why he held his own so well against them.
8: Yeah in a rare instance of DC doing it better imo Carol shouldn't be so overpowered, in her confrontation with Thanos imo that headbutt should have gone down more like Wonder Woman, the headbutt rocks her but doesn't put her down and she likes it, she's like ok a fucking challenge at last, then Thanos cheats and power stone punches her because he's a cheating bastard, her just eating the headbutt from the guy EVERY other character is being trounced by creates such a gap in power scale it's ridiculous.
9: Again I am with you on this, should have been Bucky who then says he cannot be Captain America, then he gives it to Falcon and Steve just smiles and agrees, Bucky is Steve's best friend he should have been Steve's first choice but Bucky's past and his guilt over it makes him pass on carrying on the mantle, giving it to Falcon instead also being the sign of the new respect they have for each other going into their series.
10: I didn't feel this way but I get it, maybe should have had a mini battle for Tony, Scott & Bruce not just Cap during their trip to 2012, but their intentions to not mess with history too much kind of makes that hard to fit in I guess.
11: This I had not thought of but it is a fair point, why was she just dropped from the story, my guess is with how they ended his story putting her in it just made the whole he's her uncle wait what are they related wtf issue more obvious and they didn't want people to focus on that in this film.
I agree the film is a great watch, maybe my fav of the series at this point, I dunno need to see how much it holds up on rewatch, god damn wish the home release would come quicker, not a "perfect" movie but a fucking great one imo even with it's flaws.
My issues are more just I dislike Cap getting a happy ending as I don't think he deserved it more than Tony, as well as the ones I agree with you about, that and I wish Hulk had an actual story in this film, he really didn't, he was just there which is like well that's a waste imo.
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Post by twothousandonemark on May 10, 2019 4:39:46 GMT
That Bucky knew Steve's plan to stay in the past played better their farewells my 2nd viewing. 'You're taking all the stupid with you.' is a fun keeper line. Sam getting the shield doesn't mean he's going to be a super soldier, which is probably some ppl's gut fear may be. Sam with shield, as honourable military vet with credibility, teaming with Bucky & his baggage will be a formidable duo.
Everything about present day Thanos is also fine for me because his IW plan wasn't so Machiavellian that he wanted to conquer the universe & be some evil emperor. There was nothing left for him to do than retire & merely be found by the Avengers to no avail or consequence. Thanos 2019 died because Thor couldn't handle it.
After 2 EG viewings, I'm curious to re-watch IW again sometime this month.
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Post by hobowar on Mar 8, 2021 23:15:42 GMT
They had a 22 day window, a weakened Thanos, Captain Marvel and a time machine.
The third act while awesome to look at, was completely avoidable.
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Post by hobowar on Mar 10, 2021 23:20:51 GMT
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Post by sostie on Mar 11, 2021 13:43:04 GMT
11. Where's Sharon Carter? - she's literally not even mentioned in this movie. And while I'm happy for Cap that he finally ended up with Peggy, I'm kinda pissed that he and Sharon never really got a chance to get it on. Well it is revealed in Endgame that she was one of those that got "blipped". So where else would she appear in Endgame? The portals? Well Nick Fury, Maria Hill or any other SHIELD agents didn't turn up either. Seemed to be powered people, heroes and their armies only. Tony Stark's funeral? Considering she said she was going into hiding after Civil War, perhaps turning up where General Ross would be may not be a bright idea...if she was invited at all An added scene where she says farewell to Cap? Not really necessary. And perhaps, depending on how it's handled, might have tainted the perfect ending with Peggy.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Mar 12, 2021 13:37:35 GMT
They had a 22 day window, a weakened Thanos, Captain Marvel and a time machine. The third act while awesome to look at, was completely avoidable. Even if the battle plays out exactly the same, why does Tony have to snap? Just use the space stone to teleport away with the gauntlet. Have literally any one of the sorcerers sling Thanos into the middle of a star. Captain Marvel and Thor could mop up his armies by themselves. Even if you approach it as a slugfest, the heroes still win easily as long as Thanos doesn't have the gauntlet. Wanda was going to rip him to shreds before his ship opened up on everyone, and CM destroyed it. His armies were fighting a losing battle until he got his hands on the gauntlet.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Mar 12, 2021 14:08:07 GMT
8: Yeah in a rare instance of DC doing it better imo Carol shouldn't be so overpowered, in her confrontation with Thanos imo that headbutt should have gone down more like Wonder Woman, the headbutt rocks her but doesn't put her down and she likes it, she's like ok a fucking challenge at last, then Thanos cheats and power stone punches her because he's a cheating bastard, her just eating the headbutt from the guy EVERY other character is being trounced by creates such a gap in power scale it's ridiculous.
Agree with this specific situation, brushing off a headbutt from a dude who outslugged the Hulk is a bridge too far. But overall I don't understand why everyone says CM is overpowered. She blew up some warships. Thor could've done the same thing and nobody would've complained. Look at Thor entering the battlefield in IW. And then Stormbreaker overcomes the combined power of the gauntlet, that's ridiculous. But nobody ever seems to complain about that. Thor destroys a space whale as it comes through the portal in Avengers. Hulk one shots a space whale. IS he overpowered? People complain that she didn't 'earn' her powers in the narrative. She earned them the same way every other hero in the MCU did, by doing something heroic. She doesn't even get to kick ass until the end of her own movie; in comparison, look at Thor demolishing the Frost Giants at the beginning of his first movie. He hadn't earned anything in the eyes of the audience there, he was just that powerful and we all accepted it. I've heard speculation that when the X-Men are introduced, they'll use a version of the Rogue storyline where she steals some of Carol's powers, you know, to bring CM to a reasonable power level. Why is this necessary? What's worse, taking a headbutt from Thanos, or overpowering the combined might of the Infinity Stones?! Again, I completely agree she shouldn't have been able to go toe to toe with Thanos the way she did, considering how easily he dispatched Thor and Hulk in their respective showdowns. It's bad writing (though typical of comic books, and action movies in general, where power levels seem to shift according to what's needed in that specific scene) that makes it difficult to discern power levels, which is vital to the narrative in a story like this. But generally speaking, her power level is perfectly within acceptable top tier superhero standards. (And yes, I realize I'm replying to a post that's nearly two years old.)
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Post by dazz on Mar 12, 2021 19:33:29 GMT
8: Yeah in a rare instance of DC doing it better imo Carol shouldn't be so overpowered, in her confrontation with Thanos imo that headbutt should have gone down more like Wonder Woman, the headbutt rocks her but doesn't put her down and she likes it, she's like ok a fucking challenge at last, then Thanos cheats and power stone punches her because he's a cheating bastard, her just eating the headbutt from the guy EVERY other character is being trounced by creates such a gap in power scale it's ridiculous.
Agree with this specific situation, brushing off a headbutt from a dude who outslugged the Hulk is a bridge too far. But overall I don't understand why everyone says CM is overpowered. She blew up some warships. Thor could've done the same thing and nobody would've complained. Look at Thor entering the battlefield in IW. And then Stormbreaker overcomes the combined power of the gauntlet, that's ridiculous. But nobody ever seems to complain about that. Thor destroys a space whale as it comes through the portal in Avengers. Hulk one shots a space whale. IS he overpowered? People complain that she didn't 'earn' her powers in the narrative. She earned them the same way every other hero in the MCU did, by doing something heroic. She doesn't even get to kick ass until the end of her own movie; in comparison, look at Thor demolishing the Frost Giants at the beginning of his first movie. He hadn't earned anything in the eyes of the audience there, he was just that powerful and we all accepted it. I've heard speculation that when the X-Men are introduced, they'll use a version of the Rogue storyline where she steals some of Carol's powers, you know, to bring CM to a reasonable power level. Why is this necessary? What's worse, taking a headbutt from Thanos, or overpowering the combined might of the Infinity Stones?! Again, I completely agree she shouldn't have been able to go toe to toe with Thanos the way she did, considering how easily he dispatched Thor and Hulk in their respective showdowns. It's bad writing (though typical of comic books, and action movies in general, where power levels seem to shift according to what's needed in that specific scene) that makes it difficult to discern power levels, which is vital to the narrative in a story like this. But generally speaking, her power level is perfectly within acceptable top tier superhero standards. (And yes, I realize I'm replying to a post that's nearly two years old.) Difference is Hulk and Thor took out Leviathans, and even then they did so with some semblance of effort, CM flew through war ships like they were paper, this was not the same with Hulk or Thor, their attacks wrecked Leviathans a significantly weaker "craft" but they didn't tear through them like paper. The other thing is Thor and Hulks powers aren't OP to their opponents, Hulk struggles with Abomination, he struggles with the Hulkbuster, he struggles with Fenris as well as Thor and he gets whooped by Thanos, whilst Thor is stronger but not like cardboard vs. a buzz saw stronger than the Frost Giants, he struggles with Loki, he struggles with the Dark Elves, he struggles with Hela and gets whooped by Thanos and he and Hulk or equals still, they are superpowered but not enough as so no threat is a threat to them which is the whole issue with CM, nothing except an infinity stone can even phase her, that's how OP she is. The movie basically sets CM up as Wayne Gretzky, and everyone else is playing peewee hockey, which is an issue because it makes everyone else redundant, CM can blow through any threat the Avengers can beat, and with ease no less, but any foe CM cannot beat or even struggles with the Avengers combined strength cannot overcome, makes everything the Avengers do seem trivial, and just did not need to be written that way is all, which goes to the A-Force scene and how moronic it was, why does CM need the help of Wasp? or the ladies of Wakanda? how does Pepper in any way provide backup to CM? Scarlett Witch and Valkyrie were the only viable assists in that group, and even Valkyrie is questionable due to how much stronger CM is to an Asguardian.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Mar 12, 2021 20:25:58 GMT
Agree with this specific situation, brushing off a headbutt from a dude who outslugged the Hulk is a bridge too far. But overall I don't understand why everyone says CM is overpowered. She blew up some warships. Thor could've done the same thing and nobody would've complained. Look at Thor entering the battlefield in IW. And then Stormbreaker overcomes the combined power of the gauntlet, that's ridiculous. But nobody ever seems to complain about that. Thor destroys a space whale as it comes through the portal in Avengers. Hulk one shots a space whale. IS he overpowered? People complain that she didn't 'earn' her powers in the narrative. She earned them the same way every other hero in the MCU did, by doing something heroic. She doesn't even get to kick ass until the end of her own movie; in comparison, look at Thor demolishing the Frost Giants at the beginning of his first movie. He hadn't earned anything in the eyes of the audience there, he was just that powerful and we all accepted it. I've heard speculation that when the X-Men are introduced, they'll use a version of the Rogue storyline where she steals some of Carol's powers, you know, to bring CM to a reasonable power level. Why is this necessary? What's worse, taking a headbutt from Thanos, or overpowering the combined might of the Infinity Stones?! Again, I completely agree she shouldn't have been able to go toe to toe with Thanos the way she did, considering how easily he dispatched Thor and Hulk in their respective showdowns. It's bad writing (though typical of comic books, and action movies in general, where power levels seem to shift according to what's needed in that specific scene) that makes it difficult to discern power levels, which is vital to the narrative in a story like this. But generally speaking, her power level is perfectly within acceptable top tier superhero standards. (And yes, I realize I'm replying to a post that's nearly two years old.) Difference is Hulk and Thor took out Leviathans, and even then they did so with some semblance of effort, CM flew through war ships like they were paper, this was not the same with Hulk or Thor, their attacks wrecked Leviathans a significantly weaker "craft" but they didn't tear through them like paper. The other thing is Thor and Hulks powers aren't OP to their opponents, Hulk struggles with Abomination, he struggles with the Hulkbuster, he struggles with Fenris as well as Thor and he gets whooped by Thanos, whilst Thor is stronger but not like cardboard vs. a buzz saw stronger than the Frost Giants, he struggles with Loki, he struggles with the Dark Elves, he struggles with Hela and gets whooped by Thanos and he and Hulk or equals still, they are superpowered but not enough as so no threat is a threat to them which is the whole issue with CM, nothing except an infinity stone can even phase her, that's how OP she is. The movie basically sets CM up as Wayne Gretzky, and everyone else is playing peewee hockey, which is an issue because it makes everyone else redundant, CM can blow through any threat the Avengers can beat, and with ease no less, but any foe CM cannot beat or even struggles with the Avengers combined strength cannot overcome, makes everything the Avengers do seem trivial, and just did not need to be written that way is all, which goes to the A-Force scene and how moronic it was, why does CM need the help of Wasp? or the ladies of Wakanda? how does Pepper in any way provide backup to CM? Scarlett Witch and Valkyrie were the only viable assists in that group, and even Valkyrie is questionable due to how much stronger CM is to an Asguardian. Then they should give her stronger adversaries. I think Hulk and Thor would've done the same thing to the Kree ships that she did, that isn't her fault. And I disagree with Hulk putting in effort to kill the space whale. He punched it once and it died. He wasn't even an enraged Hulk, he had barely transformed. Thor gets whooped by Thanos without the gauntlet after overpowering Thanos when he had the gauntlet. That's a writing problem bigger than CM being OP. The Thor that showed up on the battlefield in Wakanda would have wrecked Thanos sans gauntlet, then brought down the ship with ease. But they had played that card already, so decided to give the moment to someone else. The writing is all over the place regarding power levels, but again that isn't unique to comic book movies. I agree the A-Force moment was beyond hammy, that has no bearing on CM's power level, though. There were a lot of things endgame could've handled better despite being awesome. But in the grand scheme of things, I don't see Captain Marvel as being overpowered in any sequence other than taking a direct blow from Thanos with basically no reaction.
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Post by dazz on Mar 12, 2021 23:40:36 GMT
Difference is Hulk and Thor took out Leviathans, and even then they did so with some semblance of effort, CM flew through war ships like they were paper, this was not the same with Hulk or Thor, their attacks wrecked Leviathans a significantly weaker "craft" but they didn't tear through them like paper. The other thing is Thor and Hulks powers aren't OP to their opponents, Hulk struggles with Abomination, he struggles with the Hulkbuster, he struggles with Fenris as well as Thor and he gets whooped by Thanos, whilst Thor is stronger but not like cardboard vs. a buzz saw stronger than the Frost Giants, he struggles with Loki, he struggles with the Dark Elves, he struggles with Hela and gets whooped by Thanos and he and Hulk or equals still, they are superpowered but not enough as so no threat is a threat to them which is the whole issue with CM, nothing except an infinity stone can even phase her, that's how OP she is. The movie basically sets CM up as Wayne Gretzky, and everyone else is playing peewee hockey, which is an issue because it makes everyone else redundant, CM can blow through any threat the Avengers can beat, and with ease no less, but any foe CM cannot beat or even struggles with the Avengers combined strength cannot overcome, makes everything the Avengers do seem trivial, and just did not need to be written that way is all, which goes to the A-Force scene and how moronic it was, why does CM need the help of Wasp? or the ladies of Wakanda? how does Pepper in any way provide backup to CM? Scarlett Witch and Valkyrie were the only viable assists in that group, and even Valkyrie is questionable due to how much stronger CM is to an Asguardian. Then they should give her stronger adversaries. I think Hulk and Thor would've done the same thing to the Kree ships that she did, that isn't her fault. And I disagree with Hulk putting in effort to kill the space whale. He punched it once and it died. He wasn't even an enraged Hulk, he had barely transformed. Thor gets whooped by Thanos without the gauntlet after overpowering Thanos when he had the gauntlet. That's a writing problem bigger than CM being OP. The Thor that showed up on the battlefield in Wakanda would have wrecked Thanos sans gauntlet, then brought down the ship with ease. But they had played that card already, so decided to give the moment to someone else. The writing is all over the place regarding power levels, but again that isn't unique to comic book movies. I agree the A-Force moment was beyond hammy, that has no bearing on CM's power level, though. There were a lot of things endgame could've handled better despite being awesome. But in the grand scheme of things, I don't see Captain Marvel as being overpowered in any sequence other than taking a direct blow from Thanos with basically no reaction. No see you are missing my point, Hulk and Thor took down Leviathans a weaker vessel, Starks "conventional" human weaponry could damage the things, it took a lot of them but still, the Santcuary was powerful enough to withstand a fleet of Nova Corp and Ravager ships, Hulk killed one with a single punch ala a human being getting smashed in the head with a sledgehammer, CM ran through the Sanctuary like a bullet going through bog roll, those are vastly different situations. Also no Thor did not overpower the IG, Stormbreaker did, a weapon forged to be able to defeat Thanos, which Thanos knew could be possible hence wiping out all but one of the Dwarfs, again not in any way the same thing as CM. And the whole they gave it to Thor last time so they gave it to CM now is not true either, if it were they would have given it to Hulk as it's just a rinse wash and repeat of CM a movie that was out what 2-3 months earlier? hell still in some theatres by the time Endgame came out, why choose to not repeat one but absolutely repeat the other? Because it wasn't just for shits and giggles, it's to point out how OP CM actually is. Her being OP isn't too bad though, look at Wanda she is OP as hell, but she's not impervious to things, focused she maybe more powerful and dangerous than CM, but she has limitations and ways to offset her power, as we saw when she had Thanos dead to rights and he got out of it, there is no such thing with CM, she's just a tank who can eat the most powerful shots from anyone with little to no actual damage being sustained, if they wanna go Superman with her powerset then fine, just don't forget about the limitations like Superman has, people say he's OP but he's also got a shit ton of weakness's to exploit also to balance things out somewhat, we have seen absolutely no evidence of this with CM however, in 2 films she's yet to show even the slightest hint of weakness or even that anyone exist that can rival her power, which is boring as shit imo.
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Downey
Junior Member
@hunter
Posts: 2,329
Likes: 497
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Post by Downey on Mar 13, 2021 19:52:37 GMT
Difference is Hulk and Thor took out Leviathans, and even then they did so with some semblance of effort, CM flew through war ships like they were paper, this was not the same with Hulk or Thor, their attacks wrecked Leviathans a significantly weaker "craft" but they didn't tear through them like paper. The other thing is Thor and Hulks powers aren't OP to their opponents, Hulk struggles with Abomination, he struggles with the Hulkbuster, he struggles with Fenris as well as Thor and he gets whooped by Thanos, whilst Thor is stronger but not like cardboard vs. a buzz saw stronger than the Frost Giants, he struggles with Loki, he struggles with the Dark Elves, he struggles with Hela and gets whooped by Thanos and he and Hulk or equals still, they are superpowered but not enough as so no threat is a threat to them which is the whole issue with CM, nothing except an infinity stone can even phase her, that's how OP she is. The movie basically sets CM up as Wayne Gretzky, and everyone else is playing peewee hockey, which is an issue because it makes everyone else redundant, CM can blow through any threat the Avengers can beat, and with ease no less, but any foe CM cannot beat or even struggles with the Avengers combined strength cannot overcome, makes everything the Avengers do seem trivial, and just did not need to be written that way is all, which goes to the A-Force scene and how moronic it was, why does CM need the help of Wasp? or the ladies of Wakanda? how does Pepper in any way provide backup to CM? Scarlett Witch and Valkyrie were the only viable assists in that group, and even Valkyrie is questionable due to how much stronger CM is to an Asguardian. Then they should give her stronger adversaries. I think Hulk and Thor would've done the same thing to the Kree ships that she did, that isn't her fault. And I disagree with Hulk putting in effort to kill the space whale. He punched it once and it died. He wasn't even an enraged Hulk, he had barely transformed. Thor gets whooped by Thanos without the gauntlet after overpowering Thanos when he had the gauntlet. That's a writing problem bigger than CM being OP. The Thor that showed up on the battlefield in Wakanda would have wrecked Thanos sans gauntlet, then brought down the ship with ease. But they had played that card already, so decided to give the moment to someone else. The writing is all over the place regarding power levels, but again that isn't unique to comic book movies. I agree the A-Force moment was beyond hammy, that has no bearing on CM's power level, though. There were a lot of things endgame could've handled better despite being awesome. But in the grand scheme of things, I don't see Captain Marvel as being overpowered in any sequence other than taking a direct blow from Thanos with basically no reaction. Umm no when the Hulk punched the space whale he was fully transformed. |
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Mar 13, 2021 21:32:49 GMT
Then they should give her stronger adversaries. I think Hulk and Thor would've done the same thing to the Kree ships that she did, that isn't her fault. And I disagree with Hulk putting in effort to kill the space whale. He punched it once and it died. He wasn't even an enraged Hulk, he had barely transformed. Thor gets whooped by Thanos without the gauntlet after overpowering Thanos when he had the gauntlet. That's a writing problem bigger than CM being OP. The Thor that showed up on the battlefield in Wakanda would have wrecked Thanos sans gauntlet, then brought down the ship with ease. But they had played that card already, so decided to give the moment to someone else. The writing is all over the place regarding power levels, but again that isn't unique to comic book movies. I agree the A-Force moment was beyond hammy, that has no bearing on CM's power level, though. There were a lot of things endgame could've handled better despite being awesome. But in the grand scheme of things, I don't see Captain Marvel as being overpowered in any sequence other than taking a direct blow from Thanos with basically no reaction. Umm no when the Hulk punched the space whale he was fully transformed. I didn't say he wasn't. I said he wasn't an enraged Hulk. Hulk gets stronger the more angry he is; he had just transformed into the Hulk, thus was at minimal power levels by his own standards.
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Downey
Junior Member
@hunter
Posts: 2,329
Likes: 497
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Post by Downey on Mar 14, 2021 0:07:52 GMT
Umm no when the Hulk punched the space whale he was fully transformed. I didn't say he wasn't. I said he wasn't an enraged Hulk. Hulk gets stronger the more angry he is; he had just transformed into the Hulk, thus was at minimal power levels by his own standards. And I actually agree with you that instead of moaning about heroes being "over powered" that they should give them stronger villains to fight instead, this is the comic book genre we're talking about here use your imagination. |
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Post by hobowar on Mar 14, 2021 3:50:03 GMT
They had a 22 day window, a weakened Thanos, Captain Marvel and a time machine. The third act while awesome to look at, was completely avoidable. Even if the battle plays out exactly the same, why does Tony have to snap? Just use the space stone to teleport away with the gauntlet. Have literally any one of the sorcerers sling Thanos into the middle of a star. Captain Marvel and Thor could mop up his armies by themselves. Even if you approach it as a slugfest, the heroes still win easily as long as Thanos doesn't have the gauntlet. Wanda was going to rip him to shreds before his ship opened up on everyone, and CM destroyed it. His armies were fighting a losing battle until he got his hands on the gauntlet. Yep. I've had all these thoughts myself. Also why didn't Wanda go straight back to tearing Thanos a new asshole right after Carol destroyed his ship? |
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