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Post by CrepedCrusader on May 10, 2019 3:10:49 GMT
By which I mean overreacting like little children to everything they don't agree with storywise? In th last couple of weeks I've seen more and more people talking crap about Benioff and Weiss and the show, claiming that the show has been "ruined" because [insert complaint here]. It's gotten to the point where some people are saying that that friggin' coffee cup making it into the show is "proof" they don't care about the fans anymore. Because, you know, mistakes like that never happen. (Just kidding, it's actually not as rare as you'd think.)
All in all, a part of the fandom is starting to sound eerily familiar to me, like the Star Wars "fans" who literally do nothing but talk about how much they hate Star Wars because [insert complaint about female and/or minority characters here], or because the story hasn't progressed like the movie that are written in their own heads.
If the Star Wars is toxic fandom gives us any clue about what to expect, keep an eye out for:
1) people who do nothing but hate on the show will tell you that they are the real fans and that you are a fake fan because you like it.
2) people associated with the show will start receiving ungodly amounts of hate on social media. Some of them may even quit social media altogether, at which point the toxic fans who drove them off will brag about this "accomplishment" while also claiming that there was no harassment and that people are making it up.
3) expect to hear words like "Mary Sue", "snowflake", and "sjw" a lot, applied to the show, people who work on the show, and people who like the show.
The one thing that GoT has going for it that may stave off the worst of this stuff is that it will soon be over. If it came back next year the toxicity would be much worse.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 10, 2019 4:10:43 GMT
Here goes another castrated who complains about "toxicity", the new maternal buzzword. D&D have been going through a shitstorm from the beginning, they'll be fine. That's the noise millions make when they fall on their bank account.
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Post by xystophoros on May 10, 2019 4:21:11 GMT
The difference is that Star Wars legitimately sucks.
Game of Thrones is still awesome.
The mingeing is coming from the same group of whiny little twats who have been acting like their lives were ruined every time the show deviated from the books.
These are people who feel some sort of entitled sense of ownership of the story, as if HBO should have consulted each of them personally before commissioning the scripts for season 8. Or better yet, in their minds, HBO should have stopped all production, allowed the cast to age out of their roles, allowed contracts to expire, so we could wait for the world’s most epic procrastinator to deliver two books when he can’t even deliver one in 10 years.
If they had their way we’d be waiting until 2037 for the series to wrap up.
Notice also how the tenor of the whining is the same as it’s always been:
“OMG D&D are RUINING the show, Stannis would NEVER do X, Y and Z!! D&D hate Stannis!” as if two professional showrunners with a year-round production schedule took on this 12-year-long project just to shit on a fictional character.
Now it’s “OMG D&D are RUINING DAENERYS, she would NEVER act selfishly or do something stupid out of her lust for power.”
These people are going to be miserable no matter how the last two episodes play out.
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Post by Winter_King on May 10, 2019 8:12:10 GMT
The difference is that Star Wars legitimately sucks. Game of Thrones is still awesome. The mingeing is coming from the same group of whiny little twats who have been acting like their lives were ruined every time the show deviated from the books. These are people who feel some sort of entitled sense of ownership of the story, as if HBO should have consulted each of them personally before commissioning the scripts for season 8. Or better yet, in their minds, HBO should have stopped all production, allowed the cast to age out of their roles, allowed contracts to expire, so we could wait for the world’s most epic procrastinator to deliver two books when he can’t even deliver one in 10 years. If they had their way we’d be waiting until 2037 for the series to wrap up. Notice also how the tenor of the whining is the same as it’s always been: “OMG D&D are RUINING the show, Stannis would NEVER do X, Y and Z!! D&D hate Stannis!” as if two professional showrunners with a year-round production schedule took on this 12-year-long project just to shit on a fictional character. Now it’s “OMG D&D are RUINING DAENERYS, she would NEVER act selfishly or do something stupid out of her lust for power.”
These people are going to be miserable no matter how the last two episodes play out. That complain doesn't even make sense since the seeds for Dany to become an antagonist have existed for quite some time. In fact, "Mad Queen Dany" was a theory developed by book readers.
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Post by Winter_King on May 10, 2019 8:14:30 GMT
There are legitimate criticisms of GOT. But people are acting like the mistakes that happened this season weren't happening before.
My main criticism of D&D is that it's pretty clear that they had enough material to make two full seasons instead of two short ones. Things are happening way too fast and as a result the writing is suffering.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 10, 2019 8:28:28 GMT
My main criticism of D&D is that it's pretty clear that they had enough material to make two full seasons instead of two short ones. Things are happening way too fast and as a result the writing is suffering. They have adapted to the audience. The intricate slow burn of early seasons, including the first two thirds of the 5th, has received praise from the smart minority and hate from the rest. But the rest make the numbers, they are the fools who buy figurines and don't know how to pirate the show. They are the money, so that's what they decided to make happy. Then there is the spectacle and the time it takes. There is a reason why it took them two years for the last season: the work involved in producing it has exploded. In S1 we had dialogues in small rooms between up to five people. They could add such scenes on the fly to provide exposition. Some of them, like Robert and Ned having breakfast outside on the Kingsroad, were later add-ons. Now they are rushing to finish on time, which is why you get forgotten coffee cups at the Winterfell dinner. The writing intentionally focusses on spectacle and feelings, not on intrigue. Having one more character reunion or one more regurgitated S1 quote is more important than the story making sense or taking its time to build up.
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Post by sdm3 on May 10, 2019 9:08:59 GMT
By which I mean overreacting like little children to everything they don't agree with storywise? In th last couple of weeks I've seen more and more people talking crap about Benioff and Weiss and the show, claiming that the show has been "ruined" because [insert complaint here]. It's gotten to the point where some people are saying that that friggin' coffee cup making it into the show is "proof" they don't care about the fans anymore. Because, you know, mistakes like that never happen. (Just kidding, it's actually not as rare a you'd think.) All in all, a part of the fandom is starting to sound eerily familiar to me, like the Star Wars "fans" who literally do nothing but tall about how much they hate Star Wars because [insert complaint about female and/or minority characters here], or because the story hasn't progressed like the movie there written in their own heads. If the Star Wars is toxic fandom gives is any clue about what to expect, keep an eye out for: 1) people who do nothing but hate on the show will tell you that they are the real fans and that you are a fake fan because you like it. 2) people associated with the show will start receiving ungodly amounts of hate on social media. Some of them may even quit social media altogether, at which point the toxic fans who drove them off will brag about this "accomplishment" while also claiming that there was no harassment and that people are making it up. 3) expect to hear words like "Mary Sue", "snowflake", and "sjw" a lot, applied to the show, people who work on the show, and people who like the show. The one thing that GoT has going for it that may stave off the worst of this stuff is that it will soon be over. If it came back next year the toxicity would be much worse. Where have you been? Fans have been whining about Benioff and Weiss since season 1. Sometimes they’ve had a point; other times, less so.
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Post by xystophoros on May 10, 2019 9:21:52 GMT
Where have you been? Fans have been whining about Benioff and Weiss since season 1. Sometimes they’ve had a point; other times, less so. Dude if you look at the video reviews by Elio Garcia and Linda Antonsson, they would nerd rage about episodes GRRM himself had written, whining about how a particular episode misinterpreted the books or shortchanged a certain character, and when it was pointed out to them that GRRM had written the script, they’d be all conciliatory. It shows they are just bitching for the sake of bitching. If people want to see what a bad adaptation looks like they should watch the movie version of Dune, or better yet the Tom Hanks/Wachowski brothers version of Cloud Atlas. They were both efforts to adapt complex literary material, and both were ruinously incoherent. If you’d never read either of those books you’d have no idea WTF was going on. In fact, moviegoers who went to see Dune were given packets to read before the movie began with the hope that they could help them make sense of the mess on screen. Point is, adapting a book to screen is a tricky business, and GoT has done a great job.
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Post by sdm3 on May 10, 2019 9:27:49 GMT
Where have you been? Fans have been whining about Benioff and Weiss since season 1. Sometimes they’ve had a point; other times, less so. Dude if you look at the video reviews by Elio Garcia and Linda Antonsson, they would nerd rage about episodes GRRM himself had written, whining about how a particular episode misinterpreted the books or shortchanged a certain character, and when it was pointed out to them that GRRM had written the script, they’d be all conciliatory. Those two in particular are the worst of the worst and should never be taken seriously about anything.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 10, 2019 9:38:49 GMT
Dude if you look at the video reviews by Elio Garcia and Linda Antonsson, they would nerd rage about episodes GRRM himself had written, whining about how a particular episode misinterpreted the books or shortchanged a certain character, and when it was pointed out to them that GRRM had written the script, they’d be all conciliatory. Those two in particular are the worst of the worst and should never be taken seriously about anything. I stopped paying attention to them right in the first weeks of my watching the show. They were basically crying about their juvenile caricatures having been made adult.
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Post by Winter_King on May 10, 2019 9:39:15 GMT
3) expect to hear words like "Mary Sue", "snowflake", and "sjw" a lot, applied to the show, people who work on the show, and people who like the show. Honestly I've seen those complains since season 6. Back in season 5, it was the feminists complaining about what happened to Sansa and how the show was sexist. In fact, I've heard the same regarding the new season because "Dany would never beg" and how "Dany has suddenly the villain" and "how everyone is mistrusting her for no good reason." So what we are actually hearing is that the "show is sexist and misogynist". The Mary Sue one is particularly funny because it's only applied to Dany and usually by people that love to point out her flaws.
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Post by xystophoros on May 10, 2019 9:49:40 GMT
The difference is that Star Wars legitimately sucks. Game of Thrones is still awesome. The mingeing is coming from the same group of whiny little twats who have been acting like their lives were ruined every time the show deviated from the books. These are people who feel some sort of entitled sense of ownership of the story, as if HBO should have consulted each of them personally before commissioning the scripts for season 8. Or better yet, in their minds, HBO should have stopped all production, allowed the cast to age out of their roles, allowed contracts to expire, so we could wait for the world’s most epic procrastinator to deliver two books when he can’t even deliver one in 10 years. If they had their way we’d be waiting until 2037 for the series to wrap up. Notice also how the tenor of the whining is the same as it’s always been: “OMG D&D are RUINING the show, Stannis would NEVER do X, Y and Z!! D&D hate Stannis!” as if two professional showrunners with a year-round production schedule took on this 12-year-long project just to shit on a fictional character. Now it’s “OMG D&D are RUINING DAENERYS, she would NEVER act selfishly or do something stupid out of her lust for power.”
These people are going to be miserable no matter how the last two episodes play out. That complain doesn't even make sense since the seeds for Dany to become an antagonist have existed for quite some time. In fact, "Mad Queen Dany" was a theory developed by book readers. Exactly. The show has been laying the seeds for this for several seasons as well. There was that kid in Meereen, the one who was ultra-loyal to Dany, who she executed regardless. There was the scene where she fed the Meerenese nobles to her dragons. Random nobles, without accusation, trial or anything resembling due process. The crucifixion of hundreds of nobles, again some of them innocent, with no due process. Then the death-by-Drogon execution of the Tarlys, plus the complete lack of remorse or even any human sympathy when she told Sam what she did. Not to mention the fact that the very first thing she does, if her demands are rebuffed, is to threaten people and tell them they’ll “die screaming.” And finally, her implicit threat to Jon — who she supposedly loves — at the end of their conversation about his lineage. She’s got at least a few screws loose and her temper makes Robert Baratheon look like a big cuddly bear.
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Post by Marv on May 10, 2019 9:53:54 GMT
The biggest thing I find laughable is that once they ran out of books the show took a turn downward. Because season 6 was prob my favorite season...and none of that was in the books. Also the last book wasn’t that great...so I’m glad the show isn’t followinbrg the threads that book laid out.
But the past few episodes have been lacking that special charm that makes GoT episodes great. The first two were fine...particular episode 2 where it felt like the last time several people were gonna be together. Then the Long Night kinda set this GoT train on a collision course with disappointment.
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Post by Winter_King on May 10, 2019 9:59:47 GMT
The biggest thing I find laughable is that once they ran out of books the show took a turn downward. Because season 6 was prob my favorite season...and none of that was in the books. Also the last book wasn’t that great...so I’m glad the show isn’t followinbrg the threads that book laid out. But the past few episodes have been lacking that special charm that makes GoT episodes great. The first two were fine...particular episode 2 where it felt like the last time several people were gonna be together. Then the Long Night kinda set this GoT train on a collision course with disappointment. My favorite season is probably 4, followed by 3. But yes, season 6 is pretty good. I have to say that the last episode has been my favorite of this season. The scenes between Tyrion and Varys were great. Classic GOT. And I've said this before but I think Emilia Clarke is killing it this season.
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Post by CrepedCrusader on May 14, 2019 23:36:14 GMT
The difference is that Star Wars legitimately sucks. Game of Thrones is still awesome. The mingeing is coming from the same group of whiny little twats who have been acting like their lives were ruined every time the show deviated from the books. These are people who feel some sort of entitled sense of ownership of the story, as if HBO should have consulted each of them personally before commissioning the scripts for season 8. Or better yet, in their minds, HBO should have stopped all production, allowed the cast to age out of their roles, allowed contracts to expire, so we could wait for the world’s most epic procrastinator to deliver two books when he can’t even deliver one in 10 years. If they had their way we’d be waiting until 2037 for the series to wrap up. Notice also how the tenor of the whining is the same as it’s always been: “OMG D&D are RUINING the show, Stannis would NEVER do X, Y and Z!! D&D hate Stannis!” as if two professional showrunners with a year-round production schedule took on this 12-year-long project just to shit on a fictional character. Now it’s “OMG D&D are RUINING DAENERYS, she would NEVER act selfishly or do something stupid out of her lust for power.” These people are going to be miserable no matter how the last two episodes play out. We see to eye on the GoT situation, however I feel the same way about the Disney Star Wars haters. "I thought one thing was gonna happen, but something else happened instead. Disney is disrespecting the fans!!!" "Kathleen Kennedy is using Star Wars to push the anti-man agenda!!!" etc.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on May 15, 2019 0:27:18 GMT
Yeah, its fucking ridiculous. What the fuck is everyone's problem? This season is not the best season; fine. But it's still ten times better than most of TV right now.
Last season was rushed, you could tell the difference, and you had to know this season was going to be rushed too, what with the lower episode count. But it's still great. I really don't get whats up everyones butt.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on May 15, 2019 0:29:02 GMT
There are legitimate criticisms of GOT. But people are acting like the mistakes that happened this season weren't happening before. My main criticism of D&D is that it's pretty clear that they had enough material to make two full seasons instead of two short ones. Things are happening way too fast and as a result the writing is suffering. I'll agree with this. There is a "rushed" effect in this and the previous season.
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Post by xystophoros on May 15, 2019 2:15:15 GMT
The difference is that Star Wars legitimately sucks. Game of Thrones is still awesome. The mingeing is coming from the same group of whiny little twats who have been acting like their lives were ruined every time the show deviated from the books. These are people who feel some sort of entitled sense of ownership of the story, as if HBO should have consulted each of them personally before commissioning the scripts for season 8. Or better yet, in their minds, HBO should have stopped all production, allowed the cast to age out of their roles, allowed contracts to expire, so we could wait for the world’s most epic procrastinator to deliver two books when he can’t even deliver one in 10 years. If they had their way we’d be waiting until 2037 for the series to wrap up. Notice also how the tenor of the whining is the same as it’s always been: “OMG D&D are RUINING the show, Stannis would NEVER do X, Y and Z!! D&D hate Stannis!” as if two professional showrunners with a year-round production schedule took on this 12-year-long project just to shit on a fictional character. Now it’s “OMG D&D are RUINING DAENERYS, she would NEVER act selfishly or do something stupid out of her lust for power.” These people are going to be miserable no matter how the last two episodes play out. We see to eye on the GoT situation, however I feel the same way about the Disney Star Wars haters. "I thought one thing was gonna happen, but something else happened instead. Disney is disrespecting the fans!!!" "Kathleen Kennedy is using Star Wars to push the anti-man agenda!!!" etc. I have to admit I was never much of a Star Wars fan, so I wasn’t devastated. It was more like me and my brother were sitting in the theater laughing during TFA because it was exactly the same shit as the original Star Wars right on down to shooting the weak point in the Death Star or whatever they called it in TFA. Also, Darth Emo was hilarious. As for TLJ I had no problem with the Rose character or any of that shit. Could have been a bit more serious in tone, but I tend to like it when a movie shows us things from a “common” character’s perspective. However I think Luke was wasted. Mark Hammill plays a Templar knight named Master Talus in this season of History’s Knightfall and he is absolutely badass. A salty AF old man who trains the new recruits in swordsmanship and murders his way through knights half his age while yelling at them about how they’re apostates lol. In the season finale he was like “Behold the wrath of God, motherfuckers!” before unleashing whoopass. If the damn History Channel can get a performance like that out of him but Star Wars didn’t, there was obviously something wrong with Rian Johnson and the script. Lastly, the one thing that actually annoyed me was Laura Dern’s dumb-as-fuck General SJW, whose entire role seemed to be to prevent anyone from doing anything competent and was more worried about people defying her orders than leading the fleet or doing anything to save the other ships. They don’t need to beat us over the head with some imagined gender war, especially with a shitty character. They could have made a smart, capable female fleet admiral and I don’t think anyone but a few assholes would have a problem with it. But ultimately I think the backlash would have largely been avoided if these latest Star Wars movies were good. As a casual fan who will go see it in the theater because of the spectacle, it seems to me that the entire SW universe has produced two pretty good movies, and a whole mountain of shit.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 15, 2019 2:18:05 GMT
I can't wait until their Star Wars movies come out.
As an aside, TLJ is fantastic and I can't wait to see it again when I can squirrel away some time.
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Post by xystophoros on May 15, 2019 2:33:15 GMT
There are legitimate criticisms of GOT. But people are acting like the mistakes that happened this season weren't happening before. My main criticism of D&D is that it's pretty clear that they had enough material to make two full seasons instead of two short ones. Things are happening way too fast and as a result the writing is suffering. I'll agree with this. There is a "rushed" effect in this and the previous season. I think there is a practical reason for the short episode count, and that’s the fact that they really did need two years for filming and post-production. These last two seasons of GoT are unlike anything ever done on television and more like a sprawling, lavishly produced Hollywood movie. The Battle of Winterfell itself took 55 days of filming, with 750 extras. This final season cost $90 million for six episodes, so $15m per episode. The executives at any other network would have been like “The fuck out of here!” If a showrunner came to them with that budget. But I agree, it feels rushed. I think they should have brought in a second team to concurrently produce at least another two episodes so it feels like the narrative has time to breathe and we get more of those character moments, as well as time for the audience and characters to digest all the insane shit happening.
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