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Post by hehatesshe on May 12, 2019 5:38:52 GMT
We'll cancel Cercei right away. She is there by luck and not by any actual plan. She was lucky to be promised to the prince. He picked someone else. Than he picked Robert's someone else, so she got lucky again. Robert got drunk and let a boar kill him. Perhaps you can give her credit (blame) for this, but it's still lucky. Than lucky (lucky?) that her children all die and there was no one left in King's Landing. Her game had no skill at all.
So who could it be?
Littlefinger had lots of game. Oleana as well. Margery to a smaller extent. Dany is playing a different game than those three played. Euron is playing an interesting game. Sansa has started, but if she stays in the north her game is over. Jon/Davos/Tyrion are not playing.
So who was the best, and who has come closest so far?
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Post by hehatesshe on May 12, 2019 6:03:33 GMT
Rewatching Bronn's scene from episode 4, he's playing a pretty good game too. A nothing from nowhere became commander of the city watch, then became a knight, then had his sights set on Castle Stokeworth and a nefarious plot to become the lord there.
Jamie brought him away with that with the promise of a bigger castle and more beautiful bride. Jamie scoffed at his request for Highgarden at the time, but now Bronn has taken a promise from Cercei for Riverrun and has parlayed that into a promise for Highgarden and being Lord of the Reach.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 12, 2019 6:08:46 GMT
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Post by hehatesshe on May 12, 2019 6:31:44 GMT
Yeah, so is Bronn, Sansa, Jon, Dany, Qyburn, Tyrion, Arya, Pod, Brienne, Tormund, Euron, Yara, the Hound and the Mountain.
That is a low bar.
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Post by Morgana on May 12, 2019 9:44:04 GMT
We'll cancel Cercei right away. She is there by luck and not by any actual plan. She was lucky to be promised to the prince. He picked someone else. Than he picked Robert's someone else, so she got lucky again. Robert got drunk and let a boar kill him. Perhaps you can give her credit (blame) for this, but it's still lucky. Than lucky (lucky?) that her children all die and there was no one left in King's Landing. Her game had no skill at all. So who could it be? Littlefinger had lots of game. Oleana as well. Margery to a smaller extent. Dany is playing a different game than those three played. Euron is playing an interesting game. Sansa has started, but if she stays in the north her game is over. Jon/Davos/Tyrion are not playing. So who was the best, and who has come closest so far? I don't see why you've canceled Cersei. At first she got where she is by chance, but since then she has played a good game.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 12, 2019 10:31:45 GMT
I don't see why you've canceled Cersei. At first she got where she is by chance, but since then she has played a good game. He doesn't want her to win. It's that simple. Then the fool lists characters who are not playing, like Bronn or Arya. Players are those who want to put someone on the throne, be it themselves or another, and those who somehow get there and try to stay. Ned Stark was the worst player. Tommen gave up playing. Cersei was the one who made sure Joffrey got there and stayed until Tywin could take over. She was instrumental in preparing the defence of King's Landing when Tyrion was busy weakening its political structure by placing his own men in critical places and antagonising her. Yes, Tyrion and underdog fans think he was right because the disadvantaged and witty are always right in their eyes. He wasn't. Cersei later tried to stay where she belonged as Margaery was scheming against her. She lost but survived, took the crown when no one was left to do so and somehow managed to keep it. She might lose in the face of nuclear weapons in the hand of a ruthless opponent. This is war. Sansa is likely to "win" but she hasn't been playing.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 12, 2019 12:20:59 GMT
Cercei isn't there by luck.
She has elevated the game beyond the standard set of rules. She has managed to eliminate religion & infrastructure from the 7 Kingdoms. She even got others to fight the battle that would have ended her reign.
She's certainly an idiot, but there's a lot of those on Westeros.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 12, 2019 12:44:30 GMT
We'll cancel Cercei right away. She is there by luck and not by any actual plan. She was lucky to be promised to the prince. He picked someone else. Than he picked Robert's someone else, so she got lucky again. Robert got drunk and let a boar kill him. Perhaps you can give her credit (blame) for this, but it's still lucky. Than lucky (lucky?) that her children all die and there was no one left in King's Landing. Her game had no skill at all. So who could it be? Littlefinger had lots of game. Oleana as well. Margery to a smaller extent. Dany is playing a different game than those three played. Euron is playing an interesting game. Sansa has started, but if she stays in the north her game is over. Jon/Davos/Tyrion are not playing. So who was the best, and who has come closest so far? I don't see why you've canceled Cersei. At first she got where she is by chance, but since then she has played a good game. I don't think she has played a good game. She has no political skill whatsoever. She just blows stuff up literally and figuratively. She is crazier than the Mad King which is why it's so silly to call Dany unhinged with Cercei still around.
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shinnickneth
Junior Member
@shinnickneth
Posts: 2,510
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Post by shinnickneth on May 12, 2019 13:32:53 GMT
Well, I think we would have to factor in longevity and the grand scheme of how much power they obtained along the way.
I would say Tywin or Olenna in this case. They played the game far longer than most, achieved far greater, and proved they can sustain their power against others time and again.
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Post by Aj_June on May 12, 2019 13:43:45 GMT
I don't see why you've canceled Cersei. At first she got where she is by chance, but since then she has played a good game. I don't think she has played a good game. She has no political skill whatsoever. She just blows stuff up literally and figuratively. She is crazier than the Mad King which is why it's so silly to call Dany unhinged with Cercei still around. The 3 kids are doing well!
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Post by Aj_June on May 12, 2019 13:44:44 GMT
Well, I think we would have to factor in longevity and the grand scheme of how much power they obtained along the way. I would say Tywin or Olenna in this case. They played the game far longer than most, achieved far greater, and proved they can sustain their power against others time and again. Tywin stayed alive in spite of dealing with a psycho king. Good choice Shinnickneth!
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 12, 2019 14:25:26 GMT
If we are including facilitators and not ones trying to become king, it would still have to be Jon.
Dude was a bastard at the Wall and now is the most beloved guy in Westeros destined to be a leader despite knowing nothing and refusing the learn something.
He's like my kid who is occasionally forced to play gin rummy without knowing the rules and then still managing to beat everyone at the table.
Littlfinger's "Chaos is a ladder" is not good for gaming as the risks are too high. Heck, he was almost killed by Cersei for saying the wrong thing. What he does is mix up the board pieces in order to help others. He himself never had a shot at the throne even though he wanted it.
In the books, I would give it to Varys who has an amazingly strong long game that I won't go into details about for spoilery reasons. That said, even in the show, the fact that Varys would be willing to kill someone who he wants to help get the throne is definitely a guy that knows how to play for the long term.
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Post by hehatesshe on May 12, 2019 14:55:30 GMT
We'll cancel Cercei right away. She is there by luck and not by any actual plan. She was lucky to be promised to the prince. He picked someone else. Than he picked Robert's someone else, so she got lucky again. Robert got drunk and let a boar kill him. Perhaps you can give her credit (blame) for this, but it's still lucky. Than lucky (lucky?) that her children all die and there was no one left in King's Landing. Her game had no skill at all. So who could it be? Littlefinger had lots of game. Oleana as well. Margery to a smaller extent. Dany is playing a different game than those three played. Euron is playing an interesting game. Sansa has started, but if she stays in the north her game is over. Jon/Davos/Tyrion are not playing. So who was the best, and who has come closest so far? I don't see why you've canceled Cersei. At first she got where she is by chance, but since then she has played a good game. Since when? Since her plan to eliminate Margaery blew up in her face? Since she went Mad Queen and blew up the Sept? Since her last child killed himself, or since she abandoned her promise to send her armies to fight the dead?
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Post by hehatesshe on May 12, 2019 14:59:09 GMT
Cercei isn't there by luck. She has elevated the game beyond the standard set of rules. She has managed to eliminate religion & infrastructure from the 7 Kingdoms. She even got others to fight the battle that would have ended her reign. She's certainly an idiot, but there's a lot of those on Westeros. She has made an enemy of every kingdom in the 7 kingdoms. Its like thinking you're winning at monopoly when the only property you own is a mortgaged Boardwalk.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 12, 2019 15:10:04 GMT
Its just really creepy the whole thing It is and this is why hereditary monarchies became a successful, durable thing. The Roman alternative sort of worked for some 400 years before it started to rot. The empire didn't quite work, as would be expected from a purely military form of government. The "game of thrones" really is inspired from a period in which the hereditary aspect got tangled into itself in England. It was a time in history which has no obvious parallel in the rest of Europe, although post revolutionary France shows similarities.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 12, 2019 15:11:42 GMT
Cercei isn't there by luck. She has elevated the game beyond the standard set of rules. She has managed to eliminate religion & infrastructure from the 7 Kingdoms. She even got others to fight the battle that would have ended her reign. She's certainly an idiot, but there's a lot of those on Westeros. She has made an enemy of every kingdom in the 7 kingdoms. Its like thinking you're winning at monopoly when the only property you own is a mortgaged Boardwalk. She's got the throne and money. Enemies without power are irrelevant
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 12, 2019 15:13:57 GMT
Well, I think we would have to factor in longevity and the grand scheme of how much power they obtained along the way. I would say Tywin or Olenna in this case. They played the game far longer than most, achieved far greater, and proved they can sustain their power against others time and again. Tywin stayed alive in spite of dealing with a psycho king. Good choice Shinnickneth! Technically he stayed alive by not dealing with the king and having a disobedient Kingsguard for a son. This may actually prove he's the best because his family cannot let go of each other.Which is one of the reasons Tyrion is such a horrible Hand. Jorah vouching for him made no sense.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 12, 2019 15:17:38 GMT
Tywin stayed alive in spite of dealing with a psycho king. Good choice Shinnickneth! Technically he stayed alive by not dealing with the king and having a disobedient Kingsguard for a son. Tywin didn't play until his grandson was on the throne. Then he had to make sure he stayed there.
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Post by hehatesshe on May 12, 2019 15:40:07 GMT
She has made an enemy of every kingdom in the 7 kingdoms. Its like thinking you're winning at monopoly when the only property you own is a mortgaged Boardwalk. She's got the throne and money. Enemies without power are irrelevant Well, money is questionable. They used the money from Highgarden to pay off the substantial debt and then to purchase the golden company. I don't believe there can be much of that left. Enemies with names will always have power in Westeros if you don't eliminate all of them.
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Post by Aj_June on May 12, 2019 15:56:06 GMT
Cercei isn't there by luck. She has elevated the game beyond the standard set of rules. She has managed to eliminate religion & infrastructure from the 7 Kingdoms. She even got others to fight the battle that would have ended her reign. She's certainly an idiot, but there's a lot of those on Westeros. She has made an enemy of every kingdom in the 7 kingdoms. Its like thinking you're winning at monopoly when the only property you own is a mortgaged Boardwalk. You have to understand the values of these Cersei fans. These lunatics have no human values. So Cersei lost her kids playing the game. It's fine. As long as she is on the throne they are happy and content even though there is not much that the throne represents. These fuckwits are like 19 year old virgins who have ideas of chivalrous sex that you only have with the person you love. They get agitated by the thought that Jaime fucked another woman. In their fucked up mind sex should not happen between anyone but lifelong pairs. They make fun of people who willingly have sex. But they are so stupid that they find it Okay that Cersei has to have sex with Euron just to maintain her position in the King's Landing. BTW, Cersei has had sex with the likes of Lancel but these fuckwits ignore that. All in all, these are inbred incels. Nothing more.
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