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Post by CrepedCrusader on May 16, 2019 15:40:23 GMT
Supposed examples of this "bad writing" people keep harping on:
Dany turned into the Mad Queen too quickly, and they should have built up to it...are we talking about the same Dany who watched her brother get murdered without emotion, left people in a vault to suffocate to death, crucified people, and burned multiple people alive over the past few seasons?
Dany was able to dodge the scorpion bolts easily, even though Rheagal was killed so easily in the previous episode...you mean when she and her dragons were clearly caught by surprise, and after Rheagal got hit (and Dany realized what was going on) she dodged the rest of the bolts and escaped?
The events aren't matching up to all of the prophecies we heard in previous seasons and in the books. They are totally crapping on George R.R. Martin...wait, is that the same Geoge R.R. Martin who clearly says in the books that you shouldn't put too much trust in the accuracy of prophecies?
If you are just mad because the things you would prefer have happen didn't happen, but this "bad writing" criticism is just dumb.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 16, 2019 15:55:39 GMT
The writing has been utter crap for the last three seasons but Daenerys turning into a reckless monster is not part of it. At worst I can agree on it appearing a little too sudden but even that can be defended. Criminals do not often reveal themselves ahead of time, they're not stupid, and this was a clear case of someone who always showed such urges but allowed herself to be reigned in. That restraint fell and it could not fall half-way.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 16, 2019 15:57:32 GMT
I wish people would stop coming up with the same bad examples for Danys sudden change.
Every example ever given is regarding terrible people. Only morons would think the complaints are Dany simply killed people. Context is always key and the argument of “Derp! she’s killed people before! Derp!” just proves that some have no concern for context of the complaint rather than a condemnation of the critic.
When someone is able to show an examples of Dany killing the people she killed in KL then get back to the critics who correctly say her transformation was sudden and an example of bad writing.
The true complaint should be bad writing does not necessarily equate to a bad story. Game if Thrones remains a good story
Had the writing been better regarding Danys transformation then the story would have been explained better.
The writing in this case was done to hit episode beats not story ones and that is it’s flaw.
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on May 16, 2019 16:18:44 GMT
Supposed examples of this "bad writing" people keep harping on: Dany turned into the Mad Queen too quickly, and they should have built up to it...are we talking about the same Dany who watched her brother get murdered without emotion, left people in a vault to suffocate to death, crucified people, and burned multiple people alive over the past few seasons? Dany was able to dodge the scorpion bolts easily, even though Rheagal was killed so easily in the previous episode...you mean when she and her dragons were clearly caught by surprise, and after Rheagal got hit (and Dany realized what was going on) she dodged the rest of the bolts and escaped? The events aren't matching up to all of the prophecies we heard in previous seasons and in the books. They are totally crapping on George R.R. Martin...wait, is that the same Geoge R.R. Martin who clearly says in the books that you shouldn't put too much trust in the accuracy of prophecies? If you are just mad because the things you would prefer have happen didn't happen, but this "bad writing" criticism is just dumb. dany turning mad or evil or whatever is not sudden its only sudden for fans who didnt see it , refused to see it or thought of dany as some kind of hero who would save humanity and she did the opposite but i do agree they could have shown more of her transition and i think that was by design and lets face it shes been a favorite of D&D ,they would glorify every killing she did play that stupid music in the background like she was the messiah and i agree her remaining dragon should be dead with all those scorpion arrows , doesnt make sense.
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Post by Marv on May 16, 2019 16:21:22 GMT
What about characters getting mobbed by undead and miraculously not dying?
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 16, 2019 16:28:45 GMT
Supposed examples of this "bad writing" people keep harping on: Dany turned into the Mad Queen too quickly, and they should have built up to it...are we talking about the same Dany who watched her brother get murdered without emotion, left people in a vault to suffocate to death, crucified people, and burned multiple people alive over the past few seasons? Dany was able to dodge the scorpion bolts easily, even though Rheagal was killed so easily in the previous episode...you mean when she and her dragons were clearly caught by surprise, and after Rheagal got hit (and Dany realized what was going on) she dodged the rest of the bolts and escaped? The events aren't matching up to all of the prophecies we heard in previous seasons and in the books. They are totally crapping on George R.R. Martin...wait, is that the same Geoge R.R. Martin who clearly says in the books that you shouldn't put too much trust in the accuracy of prophecies? If you are just mad because the things you would prefer have happen didn't happen, but this "bad writing" criticism is just dumb. dany turning mad or evil or whatever is not sudden its only sudden for fans who didnt see it , refused to see it or thought of dany as some kind of hero who would save humanity and she did the opposite but i do agree they could have shown more of her transition and i think that was by design and lets face it shes been a favorite of D&D ,they would glorify every killing she did play that stupid music in the background like she was the messiah and i agree her remaining dragon should be dead with all those scorpion arrows , doesnt make sense. [Its still sudden until goobers can prove otherwise. Naming 3 or 4 things over 8 seasons does not do that. You might as well say Jon was crazy for hanging a kid or shooting Mance. Sansa was crazy for feeding Ramsay to his dogs Cersei was crazy.... Wait Cersei was crazy.
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on May 16, 2019 16:33:57 GMT
dany turning mad or evil or whatever is not sudden its only sudden for fans who didnt see it , refused to see it or thought of dany as some kind of hero who would save humanity and she did the opposite but i do agree they could have shown more of her transition and i think that was by design and lets face it shes been a favorite of D&D ,they would glorify every killing she did play that stupid music in the background like she was the messiah and i agree her remaining dragon should be dead with all those scorpion arrows , doesnt make sense. [Its still sudden until goobers can prove otherwise. Naming 3 or 4 things over 8 seasons does not do that. You might as well say Jon was crazy for hanging a kid or shooting Mance. Sansa was crazy for feeding Ramsay to his dogs Cersei was crazy.... Wait Cersei was crazy. sansa fed dogs a monster sadistic rapist who fed a newborn infant and his mother to dogs -he got exactly what he deserved , however sansa took care of the one person who hurt her she didnt burn an entire city she didnt burn children , mothers and innocent to get her revenge .
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 16, 2019 16:44:02 GMT
What about characters getting mobbed by undead and miraculously not dying? That was terrible, yes. People just couldn't stop saying Sam should have died.
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northernlad
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Post by northernlad on May 16, 2019 17:51:57 GMT
CoolJGS gets it. Just saying she watched her brother die...is not an example of her march toward madness...what kind of guy was her brother? She locked people in a vault? What kind of people were they? What were the circumstances that led her to do this?
I'm convinced most of you putting this shit out there are just contrarians who like to argue.
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Post by CrepedCrusader on May 16, 2019 21:13:42 GMT
CoolJGS gets it. Just saying she watched her brother die...is not an example of her march toward madness...what kind of guy was her brother? She locked people in a vault? What kind of people were they? What were the circumstances that led her to do this? I'm convinced most of you putting this shit out there are just contrarians who like to argue. That's the thing. Dany fans (and I was a Dany fan myself) kept excusing her behavior because she was doing it to people who we thought deserved it. We didn't stop to think, "Even if these are bad people...that's cold-blooded."
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Post by Nightman on May 16, 2019 22:04:21 GMT
Is everybody forgetting that Viserys had just threatened to cut Dany's baby out of her? Most pregnant women wouldn't be that forgiving of that. And is everybody forgetting that the slavers she crucified had themselves crucified a bunch of kids?
People are odd about her. They weren't this hard on The Mannis after he was butchered by almost as bad writing.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 16, 2019 22:30:33 GMT
CoolJGS gets it. Just saying she watched her brother die...is not an example of her march toward madness...what kind of guy was her brother? She locked people in a vault? What kind of people were they? What were the circumstances that led her to do this? I'm convinced most of you putting this shit out there are just contrarians who like to argue. That's the thing. Dany fans (and I was a Dany fan myself) kept excusing her behavior because she was doing it to people who we thought deserved it. We didn't stop to think, "Even if these are bad people...that's cold-blooded." no one is excusing her behavior. She kills people like everyone else. Not a single solitary person has ever said they think she’s a pacifist.
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Post by xystophoros on May 17, 2019 7:46:05 GMT
I wish people would stop coming up with the same bad examples for Danys sudden change. Every example ever given is regarding terrible people. Only morons would think the complaints are Dany simply killed people. Context is always key and the argument of “Derp! she’s killed people before! Derp!” just proves that some have no concern for context of the complaint rather than a condemnation of the critic. When someone is able to show an examples of Dany killing the people she killed in KL then get back to the critics who correctly say her transformation was sudden and an example of bad writing. The true complaint should be bad writing does not necessarily equate to a bad story. Game if Thrones remains a good story Had the writing been better regarding Danys transformation then the story would have been explained better. The writing in this case was done to hit episode beats not story ones and that is it’s flaw.
This is not true.
Dany crucified hundreds of nobles in Meereen without due process, and many of them were innocent.
She had that kid Mossador put to death, again without due process.
She fed several Meerenese nobles to her dragon, again without due process, simply to make a point and scare the shit out of the others.
She roasted Randyl and Dickon Tarly, again to prove a point despite her Hand urging her to reconsider in the strongest possible terms, for her benefit and for her long-term plans in Westeros.
All those examples stand separate from the many other people she's killed, roasted, locked in vaults, sentenced to death, etc.
Her very first impulse on arriving to Westeros was to use the three dragons to destroy King's Landing as an emphatic message to the entire kingdom not to fuck with her. It took Tyrion and Varys both telling her she did not come to Westeros to become Queen of the Ashes for her to back off that plan and concede it was not a good idea.
And on top of all that, she's threatened to kill everyone who has never given her what she wants.
Finally, she started to lose her mind when she found out about Jon Snow's heritage, and things only became worse when Jon wouldn't fuck her anymore because, you know, she's his aunt.
So yeah...there was plenty of foreshadowing here.
What we have is a bunch of assholes crying about it because they cheer for the character like they cheer for a sports team, and a bunch of other assholes who scream "OMG they're turning a strong woman into a villain! OMG!"
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Post by xystophoros on May 17, 2019 7:51:15 GMT
Supposed examples of this "bad writing" people keep harping on: Dany turned into the Mad Queen too quickly, and they should have built up to it...are we talking about the same Dany who watched her brother get murdered without emotion, left people in a vault to suffocate to death, crucified people, and burned multiple people alive over the past few seasons? Dany was able to dodge the scorpion bolts easily, even though Rheagal was killed so easily in the previous episode...you mean when she and her dragons were clearly caught by surprise, and after Rheagal got hit (and Dany realized what was going on) she dodged the rest of the bolts and escaped? The events aren't matching up to all of the prophecies we heard in previous seasons and in the books. They are totally crapping on George R.R. Martin...wait, is that the same Geoge R.R. Martin who clearly says in the books that you shouldn't put too much trust in the accuracy of prophecies? If you are just mad because the things you would prefer have happen didn't happen, but this "bad writing" criticism is just dumb.
Thank you.
I saw articles in several publications, all of them written by female millennials, whining about how GoT is terrible because it took a strong woman and turned her into a villain. Most of those articles were variations on the same complaint that girls look up to Daenerys, as if she's a real person or some nonsense.
Like what, did she appear on those stupid "Lean in" commercials as an example of a brilliant female coder inspiring bitches to get IT degrees? No. She's a fictional character in a fantasy series who is best known for murdering people and making threats about fire and blood.
And for fuck's sake, did we not just have the ultimate female hero in Arya Stark? Are Arya and Sansa not great examples of persevering through incredible adversity?
But I guess not, since it's 2019 and we can't even have female villains anymore because sexism.
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Post by Winter_King on May 17, 2019 8:26:12 GMT
What about characters getting mobbed by undead and miraculously not dying? Till this day I have no idea how Will from the Night's Watch survived the attack by White Walkers in the pilot, only to be executed by Ned Stark. That sort of stuff has been present since the beginning of the show.
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Post by Winter_King on May 17, 2019 8:29:57 GMT
Supposed examples of this "bad writing" people keep harping on: Dany turned into the Mad Queen too quickly, and they should have built up to it...are we talking about the same Dany who watched her brother get murdered without emotion, left people in a vault to suffocate to death, crucified people, and burned multiple people alive over the past few seasons? Dany was able to dodge the scorpion bolts easily, even though Rheagal was killed so easily in the previous episode...you mean when she and her dragons were clearly caught by surprise, and after Rheagal got hit (and Dany realized what was going on) she dodged the rest of the bolts and escaped? The events aren't matching up to all of the prophecies we heard in previous seasons and in the books. They are totally crapping on George R.R. Martin...wait, is that the same Geoge R.R. Martin who clearly says in the books that you shouldn't put too much trust in the accuracy of prophecies? If you are just mad because the things you would prefer have happen didn't happen, but this "bad writing" criticism is just dumb. It was quick, but the issue here was that D&D decided that 13 episodes were enough to conclude the series and in my opinion, that led to events happening way too fast without any real buildup. And considering that HBO was willing to give them the episodes they wanted to finish the series, that decision is on them.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 17, 2019 9:45:38 GMT
Dany turned into the Mad Queen too quickly, It was quick, but the issue here was that D&D decided that 13 episodes were enough to conclude the series and in my opinion, that led to events happening way too fast without any real buildup. Was it really all that quick? I am genuinely asking since I saw none of it. Wasn't she making threats on her allies and advisers all along since Season 7? People seem to act as if Missandei's execution explained it all but she told Tyrion about "the people knowing whom to blame when the sky falls down upon them" before that and I have seen people discussing her threatening remarks towards or about Sansa. Didn't she threaten Varys at one point in S7? To me it seems Daenerys was shown to become gradually dangerous to her entourage for a long time.
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Post by Winter_King on May 17, 2019 10:11:01 GMT
It was quick, but the issue here was that D&D decided that 13 episodes were enough to conclude the series and in my opinion, that led to events happening way too fast without any real buildup. Was it really all that quick? I am genuinely asking since I saw none of it. Wasn't she making threats on her allies and advisers all along since Season 7? People seem to act as if Missandei's execution explained it all but she told Tyrion about "the people knowing whom to blame when the sky falls down upon them" before that and I have seen people discussing her threatening remarks towards or about Sansa. Didn't she threaten Varys at one point in S7? To me it seems Daenerys was shown to become gradually dangerous to her entourage for a long time. I think so. The events that pushed her to do this happened way to fast. Not that long ago she was saying she didn't come to Westeros to be Queen of the Ashes. I just think a few more quiet scenes depicting her getting increasingly isolated and desperate would've done the job. I don't know who said it but it felt a bit like Anakin turn to the Dark Side in episode 3. He went from wanting to arrest Palpatine to submit to him in the span of five minutes. Taking into account that the Battle of Winterfell happened in the third episode, I would say moving that battle to a 10 episode season 7 would've been better. Season 8 would be entirely focus on the war for the throne and Dany's willingness to burn it all.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 17, 2019 10:46:34 GMT
Was it really all that quick? I am genuinely asking since I saw none of it. Wasn't she making threats on her allies and advisers all along since Season 7? People seem to act as if Missandei's execution explained it all but she told Tyrion about "the people knowing whom to blame when the sky falls down upon them" before that and I have seen people discussing her threatening remarks towards or about Sansa. Didn't she threaten Varys at one point in S7? To me it seems Daenerys was shown to become gradually dangerous to her entourage for a long time. I think so. The events that pushed her to do this happened way to fast. Not that long ago she was saying she didn't come to Westeros to be Queen of the Ashes. I just think a few more quiet scenes depicting her getting increasingly isolated and desperate would've done the job. I don't know who said it but it felt a bit like Anakin turn to the Dark Side in episode 3. He went from wanting to arrest Palpatine to submit to him in the span of five minutes. Taking into account that the Battle of Winterfell happened in the third episode, I would say moving that battle to a 10 episode season 7 would've been better. Season 8 would be entirely focus on the war for the throne and Dany's willingness to burn it all. It was all there, including the direct reference to mass murder in S7E06, not just battle casualties. She wasn't pushed, she always wanted to do it but was refrained. I would certainly agree that more episodes would have made a better story but I remain on the strong suspicion that most of the criticism is due to dumb little shits who never wanted to see what their hero was. And no one needed that stupid stuff between Jaime and Brienne.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 17, 2019 11:07:24 GMT
I think so. The events that pushed her to do this happened way to fast. Not that long ago she was saying she didn't come to Westeros to be Queen of the Ashes. Looking that up (I have all the subtitles in text files, I can search for any quote in seconds), I find she was parroting this in S7E02 at 21'47 after someone else (Tyrion?) told her just that at 4'33. So I'm afraid it was a little further ago and not all that sincere. Once again, another example of how she was being refrained by people expressing fears of what they thought she might do.
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