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Post by Morgana on May 21, 2019 11:03:16 GMT
This was my least favorite part of the episode. Again...because no lead up, no payoff. Brans story was NEVER about the throne. So him getting there at this point is about as appealing as Jon becoming an owner and proprietor of a brothel in Lannisport. What makes it even worse is that Tyrion, who betrays Dany and has been giving bad advice to everyone for I don't remember how long, tells them to vote for Bran and everyone just goes along with it. Bran, who did nothing at the battle against the NK, has done nothing for almost the whole show, is suddenly the best one to rule? First off, Tyrion should never have been the one to make the choice, secondly, there is no way in hell I can see Greyworm allowing his to stand there and give his speeches after what he did. All in all I see Sansa as having played everyone including Bran. She gets to rule in the North which is what she has been after all along, her brother rules in the South, Arya has gone off somewhere and Jon has been gotten rid of. The fact that he was the best choice to rule was seemingly forgotten by all. To top it all off, we get a new council that is joking about building brothels - who in their right mind would make Bronn Master of Coin? GoT was nothing if not serious about it's politics and trying to forge a new country shouldn't have devolved into a comedy act. Aaargh, I'm so mad at the writers and for HBO for allowing them to do as they wanted.
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on May 21, 2019 11:04:53 GMT
Brandon Stark isn't the king, the Three-Eyed Raven is.
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on May 21, 2019 11:30:08 GMT
This was my least favorite part of the episode. Again...because no lead up, no payoff. Brans story was NEVER about the throne. So him getting there at this point is about as appealing as Jon becoming an owner and proprietor of a brothel in Lannisport. What makes it even worse is that Tyrion, who betrays Dany and has been giving bad advice to everyone for I don't remember how long, tells them to vote for Bran and everyone just goes along with it. Bran, who did nothing at the battle against the NK, has done nothing for almost the whole show, is suddenly the best one to rule? First off, Tyrion should never have been the one to make the choice, secondly, there is no way in hell I can see Greyworm allowing his to stand there and give his speeches after what he did. All in all I see Sansa as having played everyone including Bran. She gets to rule in the North which is what she has been after all along, her brother rules in the South, Arya has gone off somewhere and Jon has been gotten rid of. The fact that he was the best choice to rule was seemingly forgotten by all. To top it all off, we get a new council that is joking about building brothels - who in their right mind would make Bronn Master of Coin? GoT was nothing if not serious about it's politics and trying to forge a new country shouldn't have devolved into a comedy act. Aaargh, I'm so mad at the writers and for HBO for allowing them to do as they wanted. More than half the people there were related to or indebted to the Starks and Bran is the heir.
Tyrion is the one that most all would listen to, even Grey Worm once he got his mad out and did the math on just how isolated his army was with Dany and Drogon gone. He's also the one who has shown time and again he can get people to listen to him even if they despise him or have cause to like he demonstrated with Cat, Tywin, Dany and Jorah.
Bronn is a practical man who knows how to seize opportunities and size people up, he can hire a competent accountant and assess their honesty better than most, sometimes you need a thief to catch a thief. He learned the subtle and gross arts of tax collecting under Tyrion and Jaime. Brothels=entertainment and industry for the people in times of peril to forget their misery, like Olenna's point about the need for a royal wedding.
The Three-Eyed Raven played them all, including Bran (entendre intended) and why wouldn't he want to honor his brother Robb and cousin Jon by granting the North independence after all they did for Westeros in the Great War?
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 21, 2019 11:45:23 GMT
This was my least favorite part of the episode. Again...because no lead up, no payoff. Brans story was NEVER about the throne. So him getting there at this point is about as appealing as Jon becoming an owner and proprietor of a brothel in Lannisport. What makes it even worse is that Tyrion, who betrays Dany and has been giving bad advice to everyone for I don't remember how long, tells them to vote for Bran and everyone just goes along with it. Bran, who did nothing at the battle against the NK, has done nothing for almost the whole show, is suddenly the best one to rule? First off, Tyrion should never have been the one to make the choice, secondly, there is no way in hell I can see Greyworm allowing his to stand there and give his speeches after what he did. All in all I see Sansa as having played everyone including Bran. She gets to rule in the North which is what she has been after all along, her brother rules in the South, Arya has gone off somewhere and Jon has been gotten rid of. The fact that he was the best choice to rule was seemingly forgotten by all. To top it all off, we get a new council that is joking about building brothels - who in their right mind would make Bronn Master of Coin? GoT was nothing if not serious about it's politics and trying to forge a new country shouldn't have devolved into a comedy act. Aaargh, I'm so mad at the writers and for HBO for allowing them to do as they wanted. That choice of Bran was a complete fuck-up to me. Someone, somewhere, and I can only surmise it is GRRM himself, is trying to force some empty symbolism into his work. What Tyrion said made no sense. I said it before, I'll repeat it forever, the man is a political idiot. You can be a "history nerd" and understand none of it, it seems. Ruling requires more than an Internet connection with a search engine. Obviously, having the accused drive the proceedings about the other, absent accused was another nonsense. If Sansa "played" anything, it would have been nice to see it, not be presented with the results. I suspect the arguing council was the best part of the epilogue, I'm afraid. It was the first episode I watched since the finale of S6. I wonder if all the others in between were like that. I suppose so…
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Post by Morgana on May 21, 2019 12:34:16 GMT
What makes it even worse is that Tyrion, who betrays Dany and has been giving bad advice to everyone for I don't remember how long, tells them to vote for Bran and everyone just goes along with it. Bran, who did nothing at the battle against the NK, has done nothing for almost the whole show, is suddenly the best one to rule? First off, Tyrion should never have been the one to make the choice, secondly, there is no way in hell I can see Greyworm allowing his to stand there and give his speeches after what he did. All in all I see Sansa as having played everyone including Bran. She gets to rule in the North which is what she has been after all along, her brother rules in the South, Arya has gone off somewhere and Jon has been gotten rid of. The fact that he was the best choice to rule was seemingly forgotten by all. To top it all off, we get a new council that is joking about building brothels - who in their right mind would make Bronn Master of Coin? GoT was nothing if not serious about it's politics and trying to forge a new country shouldn't have devolved into a comedy act. Aaargh, I'm so mad at the writers and for HBO for allowing them to do as they wanted. More than half the people there were related to or indebted to the Starks and Bran is the heir.
Tyrion is the one that most all would listen to, even Grey Worm once he got his mad out and did the math on just how isolated his army was with Dany and Drogon gone. He's also the one who has shown time and again he can get people to listen to him even if they despise him or have cause to like he demonstrated with Cat, Tywin, Dany and Jorah.
Bronn is a practical man who knows how to seize opportunities and size people up, he can hire a competent accountant and assess their honesty better than most, sometimes you need a thief to catch a thief. He learned the subtle and gross arts of tax collecting under Tyrion and Jaime. Brothels=entertainment and industry for the people in times of peril to forget their misery, like Olenna's point about the need for a royal wedding.
The Three-Eyed Raven played them all, including Bran (entendre intended) and why wouldn't he want to honor his brother Robb and cousin Jon by granting the North independence after all they did for Westeros in the Great War?
Perhaps you are right about the Raven, I don't know. Nothing is clear and that is one of my complaints. Everything was rushed. I just don't see Bronn as being of council material and whether he was joking about the brothels or not, it wasn't the time. Why did the writers think it okay to go out on a joke? So much was destroyed, so many people killed, you would think they would put people with experience and know how to give advice, people that know how to govern, on the council.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 21, 2019 13:21:05 GMT
So much was destroyed, so many people killed, you would think they would put people with experience and know how to give advice, people that know how to govern, on the council. They put favourite characters in one last scene for fan service. So Bronn got his castle and more gold than he can count, Sam was made Archmaester, Davos is Master of Grammar or something else he knows about and Tyrion is not in the book, so Tywin fans can sleep better. Pod has become a kingsguard too, so we can already speculate that Bronn's brothels are not going to turn much of a profit…
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on May 21, 2019 13:23:00 GMT
More than half the people there were related to or indebted to the Starks and Bran is the heir.
Tyrion is the one that most all would listen to, even Grey Worm once he got his mad out and did the math on just how isolated his army was with Dany and Drogon gone. He's also the one who has shown time and again he can get people to listen to him even if they despise him or have cause to like he demonstrated with Cat, Tywin, Dany and Jorah.
Bronn is a practical man who knows how to seize opportunities and size people up, he can hire a competent accountant and assess their honesty better than most, sometimes you need a thief to catch a thief. He learned the subtle and gross arts of tax collecting under Tyrion and Jaime. Brothels=entertainment and industry for the people in times of peril to forget their misery, like Olenna's point about the need for a royal wedding.
The Three-Eyed Raven played them all, including Bran (entendre intended) and why wouldn't he want to honor his brother Robb and cousin Jon by granting the North independence after all they did for Westeros in the Great War?
Perhaps you are right about the Raven, I don't know. Nothing is clear and that is one of my complaints. Everything was rushed. I just don't see Bronn as being of council material and whether he was joking about the brothels or not, it wasn't the time. Why did the writers think it okay to go out on a joke? So much was destroyed, so many people killed, you would think they would put people with experience and know how to give advice, people that know how to govern, on the council. Yes it was rushed, they really needed three more episodes last year, four more this year and another season--perhaps two--to give it the same pacing and detail it had the first few seasons. GRRM didn't get the books out though, perhaps he never will, and D&D were never the writers of epic fantasy, they were the adapters. I made my peace with that a long time ago I guess.
This last season is essentially a movie trilogy, not as much a serial TV show, and not what many wanted or expected but I don't care as much about blanks I can fill in myself or wait for GRRM to if his muse returns before the reaper claims him. As such the haunting sequences of Tyrion digging through the rubble and Jon and Arya's reactions serve to show the sorrow and horror and them moving on was fine with me.
Bonn was a highly competent man, representing those of ability scorned by low birth that wanted their piece of the pie and sometimes got it, even back then. Bronn was an effective commander of the Gold Cloaks, right-hand man to the acting Hand of the King and later Master of Coin. He was essentially made a general under Jaime Lannister for the Riverrun and Reach campaigns. Tough-minded practical men like that eat the shorts of the Mace Tyrells if they can get onto the playing field--and sometimes they did.
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Post by shinnickneth on May 21, 2019 13:31:43 GMT
What makes it even worse is that Tyrion, who betrays Dany and has been giving bad advice to everyone for I don't remember how long, tells them to vote for Bran and everyone just goes along with it. Bran, who did nothing at the battle against the NK, has done nothing for almost the whole show, is suddenly the best one to rule? First off, Tyrion should never have been the one to make the choice, secondly, there is no way in hell I can see Greyworm allowing his to stand there and give his speeches after what he did. All in all I see Sansa as having played everyone including Bran. She gets to rule in the North which is what she has been after all along, her brother rules in the South, Arya has gone off somewhere and Jon has been gotten rid of. The fact that he was the best choice to rule was seemingly forgotten by all. To top it all off, we get a new council that is joking about building brothels - who in their right mind would make Bronn Master of Coin? GoT was nothing if not serious about it's politics and trying to forge a new country shouldn't have devolved into a comedy act. Aaargh, I'm so mad at the writers and for HBO for allowing them to do as they wanted.HBO gives talent creative freedom. It's what they're known for business wise.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 21, 2019 14:59:14 GMT
Bronn being Master of Coin was idiotic.
Bran being king doesn’t bother me since they are supposed to be boring.
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Post by Morgana on May 21, 2019 15:02:08 GMT
Perhaps you are right about the Raven, I don't know. Nothing is clear and that is one of my complaints. Everything was rushed. I just don't see Bronn as being of council material and whether he was joking about the brothels or not, it wasn't the time. Why did the writers think it okay to go out on a joke? So much was destroyed, so many people killed, you would think they would put people with experience and know how to give advice, people that know how to govern, on the council. Yes it was rushed, they really needed three more episodes last year, four more this year and another season--perhaps two--to give it the same pacing and detail it had the first few seasons. GRRM didn't get the books out though, perhaps he never will, and D&D were never the writers of epic fantasy, they were the adapters. I made my peace with that a long time ago I guess.
This last season is essentially a movie trilogy, not as much a serial TV show, and not what many wanted or expected but I don't care as much about blanks I can fill in myself or wait for GRRM to if his muse returns before the reaper claims him. As such the haunting sequences of Tyrion digging through the rubble and Jon and Arya's reactions serve to show the sorrow and horror and them moving on was fine with me.
Bonn was a highly competent man, representing those of ability scorned by low birth that wanted their piece of the pie and sometimes got it, even back then. Bronn was an effective commander of the Gold Cloaks, right-hand man to the acting Hand of the King and later Master of Coin. He was essentially made a general under Jaime Lannister for the Riverrun and Reach campaigns. Tough-minded practical men like that eat the shorts of the Mace Tyrells if they can get onto the playing field--and sometimes they did.
I'll take your word for it about Bronn because I don't remember much about him honestly.
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Post by Morgana on May 21, 2019 15:03:40 GMT
What makes it even worse is that Tyrion, who betrays Dany and has been giving bad advice to everyone for I don't remember how long, tells them to vote for Bran and everyone just goes along with it. Bran, who did nothing at the battle against the NK, has done nothing for almost the whole show, is suddenly the best one to rule? First off, Tyrion should never have been the one to make the choice, secondly, there is no way in hell I can see Greyworm allowing his to stand there and give his speeches after what he did. All in all I see Sansa as having played everyone including Bran. She gets to rule in the North which is what she has been after all along, her brother rules in the South, Arya has gone off somewhere and Jon has been gotten rid of. The fact that he was the best choice to rule was seemingly forgotten by all. To top it all off, we get a new council that is joking about building brothels - who in their right mind would make Bronn Master of Coin? GoT was nothing if not serious about it's politics and trying to forge a new country shouldn't have devolved into a comedy act. Aaargh, I'm so mad at the writers and for HBO for allowing them to do as they wanted.HBO gives talent creative freedom. It's what they're known for business wise. I meant in that HBO had asked them to do 2 more seasons but they refused. Perhaps it's better. The show hasn't been nearly as good as it was when it was based on the books. Still, rushing the last season as they did was a crime against an incredible show.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2019 1:47:22 GMT
Saw this on Twitter and got a laugh from it
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on May 22, 2019 18:56:46 GMT
Bronn being Master of Coin was idiotic. Why? 'It's a grubby job, get a grubby man to do it.'
In Westeros the Master of Coin mostly collects taxes and negotiates with nobles in that capacity and to pay off debts. Bronn has experience doing both, he got the miserable job of collecting The Reach's harvest done and he negotiated himself into a position to become a knight, then a highborn wife, then a Lordship with a castle and then a much nicer castle. Now being a very high lord he outranks most everyone and any dismayed by his roots would also be wary his lack of breeding might just mean he's more likely to use...extreme measures...at times to get what he wants, which ought to work to his advantage--and the Realm's.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 22, 2019 19:21:35 GMT
Bronn being Master of Coin was idiotic. Why? 'It's a grubby job, get a grubby man to do it.'
In Westeros the Master of Coin mostly collects taxes and negotiates with nobles in that capacity and to pay off debts. Bronn has experience doing both, he got the miserable job of collecting The Reach's harvest done and he negotiated himself into a position to become a knight, then a highborn wife, then a Lordship with a castle and then a much nicer castle. Now being a very high lord he outranks most everyone and any dismayed by his roots would also be wary his lack of breeding might just mean he's more likely to use...extreme measures...at times to get what he wants, which ought to work to his advantage--and the Realm's.
He didn’t really negotiate that. However he would be much better at the Master if Arms. Master of Coin involves things he isn’t good at. He was made a knight and became rich by the end of season 2 and squandered it. I think they made him Master of Coin solely for the humor of it except the scene wasn’t funny.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on May 22, 2019 19:31:57 GMT
How mad would you be if this happened? Not at all. Its actually a good choice when you stop to think about it. Who could possibly be more wise? He can see everything, he thinks logically without an overabundance of emotion, he was chosen by the ruling class, and he's surrounded by good, smart people. Sounds like a sound ruler to me. What's the problem?
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on May 22, 2019 19:39:00 GMT
Why? 'It's a grubby job, get a grubby man to do it.'
In Westeros the Master of Coin mostly collects taxes and negotiates with nobles in that capacity and to pay off debts. Bronn has experience doing both, he got the miserable job of collecting The Reach's harvest done and he negotiated himself into a position to become a knight, then a highborn wife, then a Lordship with a castle and then a much nicer castle. Now being a very high lord he outranks most everyone and any dismayed by his roots would also be wary his lack of breeding might just mean he's more likely to use...extreme measures...at times to get what he wants, which ought to work to his advantage--and the Realm's.
He didn’t really negotiate that. However he would be much better at the Master if Arms. Master of Coin involves things he isn’t good at. He was made a knight and became rich by the end of season 2 and squandered it.
I think they made him Master of Coin solely for the humor of it except the scene wasn’t funny. Or he didn't filch enough, he might well have been less sticky-fingered than some assumed. He did employ...extreme measures...against much of the element that would have been trying to bribe him as he felt the city more likely to be stable with a reliable food supply.
Master of Coin isn't a money manager anyway, that's the duty of the King and the Hand as per Ned disbelieving Jon Arryn would spend the Realm into that much debt. The Master of Coin is responsible for collecting the coin the Hand and King spend and dealing with creditors and debtors.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 22, 2019 19:43:22 GMT
He didn’t really negotiate that. However he would be much better at the Master if Arms. Master of Coin involves things he isn’t good at. He was made a knight and became rich by the end of season 2 and squandered it.
I think they made him Master of Coin solely for the humor of it except the scene wasn’t funny. Or he didn't filch enough, he might well have been less sticky-fingered than some assumed. He did employ...extreme measures...against much of the element that would have been trying to bribe him as he felt the city more likely to be stable with a reliable food supply.
Master of Coin isn't a money manager anyway, that's the duty of the King and the Hand as per Ned disbelieving Jon Arryn would spend the Realm into that much debt. The Master of Coin is responsible for collecting the coin the Hand and King spend and dealing with creditors and debtors.
The Master of a Coin does what is told. Robert wanted tourneys and LF had to provide them but he had to figure out where the money would come from. Robert would never balance a checkbook.
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on May 22, 2019 19:48:03 GMT
Or he didn't filch enough, he might well have been less sticky-fingered than some assumed. He did employ...extreme measures...against much of the element that would have been trying to bribe him as he felt the city more likely to be stable with a reliable food supply.
Master of Coin isn't a money manager anyway, that's the duty of the King and the Hand as per Ned disbelieving Jon Arryn would spend the Realm into that much debt. The Master of Coin is responsible for collecting the coin the Hand and King spend and dealing with creditors and debtors.
The Master of a Coin does what is told. Robert wanted tourneys and LF had to provide them but he had to figure out where the money would come from. Robert would never balance a checkbook. Exactly, and like Jaime I expect Bronn will have a special talent for procuring what the Crown needs.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 22, 2019 20:07:16 GMT
The Master of a Coin does what is told. Robert wanted tourneys and LF had to provide them but he had to figure out where the money would come from. Robert would never balance a checkbook. Exactly, and like Jaime I expect Bronn will have a special talent for procuring what the Crown needs. again I’m not sure where you get that. Jaime is a lord that had an education Bronn never got plus he had a horrible father that forced the dyslexia out of him.
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on May 22, 2019 22:13:40 GMT
Exactly, and like Jaime I expect Bronn will have a special talent for procuring what the Crown needs. again I’m not sure where you get that. Jaime is a lord that had an education Bronn never got plus he had a horrible father that forced the dyslexia out of him. It was what Jaime told Bronn before he sent him to help collect the Reach's harvest, right before winter. So essentially demanding food out of the mouths of hungry children.
Bronn's education was from the School of Hard Knocks, sometimes you learn more there than from 'fancy lad school.'
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