|
Post by heeeeey on May 20, 2019 12:52:41 GMT
What if you went with the opposite, that the soul is not immortal? Just the essence of a living being. Soul or psyche comprises the mental abilities of a living being: reason, character, feeling, consciousness, memory, perception, thinking, etc. And when that living being dies, all that dies with it? Just wondering... Mortal souls are common in the eastern religions, but not in that way.
Personally I don't think souls exist at all, at least not as something separate from a living being and yes it dies along with us. Not a bad fate when you think about it. It just means you're in the same state you where in before you where born.
The only thing that lives on in you is what people remember about you.
Cattle die and kinsmen die, thyself too soon must die, but one thing never, I ween, will die, -- fair fame of one who has earned.
- Håvamål
Bullshit. Most people don't remember people past three or four generations back. Let alone the fact that you will never meet your great great great grandchildren, nor they you. Lol
|
|
|
Post by heeeeey on May 20, 2019 12:55:35 GMT
Scientific papers written by and for ignorant twits and pompous asses who love to hear themselves talk? Not necessary. That is something anti-intellectuals say because they are too stupid and intentionally ignorant to understand the compendium of acquired human knowledge including science, TWAT. Try thinking for yourself once in a while instead of believing everything that other twits tell you.
|
|
|
Post by heeeeey on May 20, 2019 13:35:58 GMT
Wrong, but amusing how you state that with such authority, as if you know that for a fact. LolHow do you know I don't?
Soul is action in a sense, and through our actions, this defines our behavior. A human soul is developed, but I use the term loosely and metaphorically, as it is intangible and pretty much a religious term, which I am not. Easily, because it's not true. Here's a more accurate metaphor: The soul and body are one the way a toaster and electricity are one when you're making toast. Once the bread is toasted, the toaster turns off and the electricity goes back where it came from. It doesn't cease to exist.
|
|
|
Post by Winter_King on May 20, 2019 13:41:50 GMT
Well I never claimed to have one, so fine by me.
|
|
|
Post by rachelcarson1953 on May 20, 2019 17:23:59 GMT
Easily, because it's not true. Here's a more accurate metaphor: The soul and body are one the way a toaster and electricity are one when you're making toast. Once the bread is toasted, the toaster turns off and the electricity goes back where it came from. It doesn't cease to exist. I am not quite clear on what you are denying. The soul, from a religious perspective is a dream and what connects to the body, but is seen as a separate entity. Soul does not exist in the sense of something that takes one away from the body to only receive at death. Body and Soul are both the dream, all that remains is the conscious awareness.
Soul does not exist, and body will cease to exist, this is an indisputable fact of life. Using the term soul, is how we can also describe our being and we use this in our vernacular, as in that good soul, that lost soul, or that poor soul, so in that sense, our actions and demeanor, or even situations can describe soul, but soul is intangible and abstract. Our behavior is developing soul in the holistic sense only and the route to personal human growth. This evolution of soul development is to transcendence. That is the way I use it, a word in our vernacular to describe a person. Not literally a separate entity. And Heeeyyy's toaster metaphor? LOLOLOL
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on May 20, 2019 17:33:46 GMT
You ARE a soul that has a temporary body. Evidence?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on May 20, 2019 18:29:28 GMT
Easily, because it's not true. Here's a more accurate metaphor: The soul and body are one the way a toaster and electricity are one when you're making toast. Once the bread is toasted, the toaster turns off and the electricity goes back where it came from. It doesn't cease to exist. That's not actually how electricity works. Electricity is the flow of charge along the wires. When a toaster turns off the charge stops flowing and the electricity does in fact cease to exist. It does not "go back where it came from."
|
|
|
Post by goz on May 20, 2019 22:31:23 GMT
Easily, because it's not true. Here's a more accurate metaphor: The soul and body are one the way a toaster and electricity are one when you're making toast. Once the bread is toasted, the toaster turns off and the electricity goes back where it came from. It doesn't cease to exist. That's not actually how electricity works. Electricity is the flow of charge along the wires. When a toaster turns off the charge stops flowing and the electricity does in fact cease to exist. It does not "go back where it came from." As usual, you have summed this up succinctly and factually for the ignorant Heeeeey. I am going to do what she does to me, and tell her what she thinks and why it is wrong. Heeeeey thinks that the soul is separate from the body and is like electricity ( ie an energising force which maintains the 'integrity' { meaning wholeness not the other sense of integrity}) of what she thinks of as consciousness whilst we are alive. She then makes the mistake that you have pointed out. The fact that this electricity or life force, ceases to exist in death because of the death of the brain and the electrical impulses ceasing. She actually thinks that the life force/electricity endures NOT only as a life force butt with the personality of the dead person which she mistakenly calls a soul. ie that it 'goes or is housed somewhere else. As you also maintain, there is absolutely no evidence of either this happening or being able to happen, since the process is in the living brain and there is nothing outside it as a repository of this 'electricity' which she claims is a soul and NOT just a life force. Scientifically ( because she is an ignoramus and anti-intellectual ) she totally ignores the existing science of how we know this cannot happen, so she claims science just hasn't discovered this yet. Small things like consciousness being dependant on the state of the brain ( see aspects such as anaesthesia and brain death, brain injury and disease) and other aspects of consciousness such as personality which is governed by DNA and which is not transferable in electrical impulses, and other small details such as memory being stored in the brain, which a soul would have to have access to, to achieve transference into a new body.
|
|
|
Post by goz on May 20, 2019 22:37:08 GMT
That is something anti-intellectuals say because they are too stupid and intentionally ignorant to understand the compendium of acquired human knowledge including science, TWAT. Try thinking for yourself once in a while instead of believing everything that other twits tell you. I thought this up all by myself, using rudimentary logic and scientific knowledge ( admittedly as part of the compendium of amassed human knowledge) that we all rely on for living a modern day life, including you. It was not difficult, if you accept certain scientific facts , again as you do in millions of other spheres in your life. TWAT
|
|
|
Post by heeeeey on May 20, 2019 23:02:55 GMT
Try thinking for yourself once in a while instead of believing everything that other twits tell you. I thought this up all by myself, using rudimentary logic and scientific knowledge ( admittedly as part of the compendium of amassed human knowledge) that we all rely on for living a modern day life, including you. It was not difficult, if you accept certain scientific facts , again as you do in millions of other spheres in your life. TWAT I don't care how many paragraphs of intellectual flatulence you post. It's all bullshit. Those assholes have never experienced death, so they don't know shit--and neither do YOU.
|
|
|
Post by goz on May 20, 2019 23:07:44 GMT
|
|
|
Post by heeeeey on May 20, 2019 23:28:15 GMT
It is futile to reason with that steel trap you call a 'mind'. I used electricity as a METAPHOR, then you dumbasses start talking about it literally.
Science is only 'factual' until they discover other 'facts' and change their minds.
|
|
|
Post by lowtacks86 on May 20, 2019 23:38:59 GMT
It is futile to reason with that steel trap you call a 'mind'. I used electricity as a METAPHOR, then you dumbasses start talking about it literally.
Science is only 'factual' until they discover other 'facts' and change their minds. That's kinda the point that people have been trying to explain to you. If you want to "change our minds", give us actual facts to prove the existence of a "soul". You can't actually provide any so you just hide ad homs and bad arguments.
|
|
|
Post by heeeeey on May 20, 2019 23:41:36 GMT
It is futile to reason with that steel trap you call a 'mind'. I used electricity as a METAPHOR, then you dumbasses start talking about it literally.
Science is only 'factual' until they discover other 'facts' and change their minds. That's kinda the point that people have been trying to explain to you. If you want to "change our minds", give us actual facts to prove the existence of a "soul". You can't actually provide any so you just hide ad homs and bad arguments. That wouldn't do a damned bit of good.
You would do what the science status quo does---if something doesn't fit their narrative, they dismiss it, or will even ridicule it to discredit it.
|
|
|
Post by lowtacks86 on May 20, 2019 23:42:24 GMT
That's kinda the point that people have been trying to explain to you. If you want to "change our minds", give us actual facts to prove the existence of a "soul". You can't actually provide any so you just hide ad homs and bad arguments. That wouldn't do a damned bit of good.
You would do what the science status quo does---if something doesn't fit their narrative, they dismiss it, or will even ridicule it to discredit it.
Thanks for proving my point
|
|
|
Post by heeeeey on May 20, 2019 23:44:18 GMT
That wouldn't do a damned bit of good.
You would do what the science status quo does---if something doesn't fit their narrative, they dismiss it, or will even ridicule it to discredit it.
Thanks for proving my point And thanks for proving mine.
|
|
|
Post by lowtacks86 on May 20, 2019 23:45:37 GMT
Thanks for proving my point And thanks for proving mine. If your point is you don't understand science, then you're welcome.
|
|
|
Post by lowtacks86 on May 20, 2019 23:59:11 GMT
That is the way I use it, a word in our vernacular to describe a person. Not literally a separate entity. And Heeeyyy's toaster metaphor? LOLOLOL Yes, we as human beings are perceived as souls as a recognition\label. Developing that human being aspect contributes to the growth of our soul of being. Soul is really all derived through thought and action only and it could be called anything, but it just has a more divine ring to it, due to religious influence throughout the ages.
Heeeyyy is trying her best, but......... That was her "best"? Geez, I've heard better arguments for anarcho capitalism...
|
|
|
Post by goz on May 21, 2019 0:36:49 GMT
That is the way I use it, a word in our vernacular to describe a person. Not literally a separate entity. And Heeeyyy's toaster metaphor? LOLOLOL Yes, we as human beings are perceived as souls as a recognition\label. Developing that human being aspect contributes to the growth of our soul of being. Soul is really all derived through thought and action only and it could be called anything, but it just has a more divine ring to it, due to religious influence throughout the ages.
Heeeyyy is trying her best, but......... Do you believe this 'soul thing'/ 'soul of being', 'human being aspect'... whatever you want to call it... transfers to another body/persona whatever, after brain death and death of an individual? Does our uniqueness/DNA/soul thing live on, at all, forever?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on May 21, 2019 1:15:21 GMT
That's not actually how electricity works. Electricity is the flow of charge along the wires. When a toaster turns off the charge stops flowing and the electricity does in fact cease to exist. It does not "go back where it came from." Where is the source of the flow? It varies. Mostly it's a generator in a power plant somewhere around. It can also be a solar panel, if your house has those. Or a battery, for that matter. Probably the best analogy for electricity is to think of the wiring as pipes full of water. Having water in a pipe does nothing; it will just sit there. If you turn a tap on a little may dribble out under gravity, but you won't get a flow. But then picture a pump at the far end of the pipe; when turned on, the pump puts the water under pressure, which is felt at every point along the pipe. This is the generator in the power plant generating a potential difference across the circuit. Now if you open a tap water will spurt out, because water is being pushed along the pipe by the pressure from the pump. Similarly, if you close a circuit by turning the toaster on, electrical charge will flow along the wires. This is what electricity is; the movement of charge from one place to another. In this case, the movement of charge down the wires. For as long as the pump is working and the tap is open, water will flow down the pipe. For as long as the generator is working and the toaster is on, electrical charge will flow along the wires. (Fun fact. Electrical charges move very slowly along wires. Like, less than an inch a minute. Literally a snail's pace. But the flow of electricity moves at about a tenth the speed of light, and can circle the entire world in about a second and a half.) When the toaster turns off the circuit is broken and the charges stop flowing. At this point the electricity literally ceases to exist, just as if you turn the pump off the flow of the water ceases to exist. The water itself is still there, as the electrical charge is still there, but it's the movement of those things that we're talking about, not the things themselves. So yeah... Heeeyyy is literally as wrong as it's possible to be. Electricity does not go back to where it came from, it just stops existing. A much better analogy for what Heeeyyy is trying to say is a radio. The soul is a radio station, the brain is a radio receiver. The brain can die, but the radio signal is still there regardless. And that's perfectly possible, or at least conceivably possible. But Heeeyyy talks about it as if it is a proven fact and you have to be a dummy to think otherwise. And it's not. It's a hypothesis. It's irrational to believe it unless and until we have some sort of evidence for it. But Heeeyyy will never, ever provide such evidence. Because there is none.
|
|