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Post by rachelcarson1953 on May 31, 2019 15:26:57 GMT
Human beings already evolved from primates, by the time God Revealed Himself to His Creation. The Serpent didn't tempt primates, he tempted human beings. And knowledge & wisdom are not gifts from the Devil, they are Gifts Of the Holy Spirit (God) (Isaiah chapter 11, verses 1 - 2). The story is allegorical for the evolution of man from beast. At some point an ape became a man. This is what the ancients tried to explain with the story of Adam and Eve. At some point you have to reconcile the fruit from the tree of knowledge, given by Satan to man, with gifts given later by the Holy Spirit. It's not black and white. Interesting point of view, and exchange.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 31, 2019 16:45:44 GMT
Do people assume freedom fighting is always good?
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Deleted Member
@Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2019 18:26:01 GMT
Do people assume freedom fighting is always good? 
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 31, 2019 18:41:48 GMT
Do people assume freedom fighting is always good? so I assume that’s a yes. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 31, 2019 18:55:07 GMT
Human beings already evolved from primates, by the time God Revealed Himself to His Creation. The Serpent didn't tempt primates, he tempted human beings. And knowledge & wisdom are not gifts from the Devil, they are Gifts Of the Holy Spirit (God) (Isaiah chapter 11, verses 1 - 2). The story is allegorical for the evolution of man from beast. At some point an ape became a man. This is what the ancients tried to explain with the story of Adam and Eve. At some point you have to reconcile the fruit from the tree of knowledge, given by Satan to man, with gifts given later by the Holy Spirit. It's not black and white. That may be what modern man interprets it to be but the writer of Genesis would never have reason to even think about evolution. That said if one believes scripture is inspired then it could mean he was influenced to write it that way. In any event it’s clear God created intelligent man from those verses. The issue wasn’t the fruit, it was the disobedience. The fruit wasn't poisonous it just didn’t have the ability to do what the serpent said it would. Maybe it would later but it would be based on Gods time rather than humans. There is another tree that is of life but even then that tree is considered a reward and thus they wouldn’t qualify for it either. |
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Post by mslo79 on May 31, 2019 20:22:43 GMT
All you really need to know about the following...
God = order
satan = disorder
that pretty much sums up who's good and who's evil.
with that said... it's a wonder some people try to sympathize with satan not realizing he hates humanity and wants nothing but their suffering/destruction since we are God's creation and he can't stand God. but God on the other hand wants people to be happy etc. you can't be happy by going against the way's of God because God is goodness/order itself and to rebel against God is to rebel against good/truth and the only natural consequence of that is chaos/disorder and that's not happiness. it's just the way things are as hell, which is where satan is, is basically the absence of God and only hate/misery remains.
@nedkelly
Your mistaken, satan is a real entity (along with demons). the Catholic church says so and they are the authority on Christianity. to say otherwise is heresy.
basically satan and his fallen angels (i.e. demons) were created good but through their own choice became evil. I think it was something like 1/3rd of them fell.
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Post by drystyx on Jun 1, 2019 3:30:25 GMT
No. And we have indisputable truth that he isn't a freedom fighter.
A terrorist is never a "freedom fighter". He's a terrorist, period. The "freedom fighter terrorist" is a myth perpetuated by the most ignorant and demon possessed minds.
We have the proof that Satan is not a freedom fighter, because if he was, then the "tree of knowledge of good and evil" would have given men and women wisdom without confusion. We have proof throughout History that he only gave us confusion. The only reason to confuse is if he is not a "freedom fighter", but the opposite.
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Post by Isapop on Jun 1, 2019 12:57:08 GMT
The issue wasn’t the fruit, it was the disobedience. The fruit wasn't poisonous it just didn’t have the ability to do what the serpent said it would. Maybe it would later but it would be based on Gods time rather than humans. It just didn’t have the ability to do what the serpent said it would? By what reasoning do you say that?
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jun 1, 2019 13:03:27 GMT
The issue wasn’t the fruit, it was the disobedience. The fruit wasn't poisonous it just didn’t have the ability to do what the serpent said it would. Maybe it would later but it would be based on Gods time rather than humans. It just didn’t have the ability to do what the serpent said it would? By what reasoning do you say that?
Did it do this?
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Post by Isapop on Jun 1, 2019 13:10:25 GMT
It just didn’t have the ability to do what the serpent said it would? By what reasoning do you say that?
Did it do this? God told the angels it did exactly that: And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. (Genesis 3:22)
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jun 1, 2019 13:14:25 GMT
God told the angels it did exactly that: And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. (Genesis 3:22)
You are missing a very important piece, but that's OK. Let's just say Adam & Eve's dreams came true and they lived happily ever after.
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Post by Isapop on Jun 1, 2019 13:54:52 GMT
God told the angels it did exactly that: And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. (Genesis 3:22)
Let's just say Adam & Eve's dreams came true and they lived happily ever after. Why? Neither one of us has suggested that.I started by asking what your reasoning was, and (after two chances) you still haven't said (but it's "a very important piece"). I guess we'll all have to take your word that it's important enough to ignore what God said.
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Post by Stammerhead on Jun 1, 2019 22:13:10 GMT
Yeah, just like Stalin was.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jun 1, 2019 22:25:38 GMT
Let's just say Adam & Eve's dreams came true and they lived happily ever after. Why? Neither one of us has suggested that.I started by asking what your reasoning was, and (after two chances) you still haven't said (but it's "a very important piece"). I guess we'll all have to take your word that it's important enough to ignore what God said. I had no idea you were this stupid but I'm going to now assume that you are and come out and say what the verse directly stats and that you obviously willfully ignored. They died. It's not my reasoning at all. Now I'm going to try to guess your stupidity further and assume that you're just going to say that I didn;t answer you question since that is the only angle you've got. Correct? You have no idea how hard I'm going to laugh when you do that, but you can;t help yourself. If I'm wrong then, Praise Be!, because there may be an inkling of a normal person in there and not one that just feels like making up something to argue about every 5 seconds.
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Post by Isapop on Jun 2, 2019 0:16:35 GMT
Why? Neither one of us has suggested that.I started by asking what your reasoning was, and (after two chances) you still haven't said (but it's "a very important piece"). I guess we'll all have to take your word that it's important enough to ignore what God said. I had no idea you were this stupid but I'm going to now assume that you are and come out and say what the verse directly stats and that you obviously willfully ignored. They died. It's not my reasoning at all. Now I'm going to try to guess your stupidity further and assume that you're just going to say that I didn;t answer you question since that is the only angle you've got. Correct? You have no idea how hard I'm going to laugh when you do that, but you can;t help yourself. Your belching of abusive language accurately signals both your desperation and the inadequacy of your answer. Of course they died. The fact that God sentenced A&E to death doesn't abate the ignorance of your claim that the (non-poisonous) fruit "didn’t have the ability to do what the serpent said it would." And when I asked you your reason for that claim, and you then quoted the serpent's promise, you didn't say something like, "Yes, but A&E died anyway". Instead you asked, "Did it do this?" Anyone who knew the correct answer in Genesis wouldn't have asked that. That pretty well shows you didn't even know about what God said in that verse. And you have to scramble to cover your ignorance. I think the time shown on my first post shows an admirable amount of restraint before responding to you.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Jun 2, 2019 2:10:17 GMT
Arguably yes, that's pretty much what led to the key aspectsf Laveyan Satanism, a rejection Christian authoritarianism and discipline in favor of secular libertarianism and hedonism. Not that I fully endorse the latter or anything though (I'm certainly not an Ayn Randian/objectivist)
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Post by gameboy on Jun 2, 2019 23:50:49 GMT
The story is allegorical for the evolution of man from beast. At some point an ape became a man. This is what the ancients tried to explain with the story of Adam and Eve. At some point you have to reconcile the fruit from the tree of knowledge, given by Satan to man, with gifts given later by the Holy Spirit. It's not black and white. That may be what modern man interprets it to be but the writer of Genesis would never have reason to even think about evolution. That said if one believes scripture is inspired then it could mean he was influenced to write it that way. In any event it’s clear God created intelligent man from those verses. The issue wasn’t the fruit, it was the disobedience. The fruit wasn't poisonous it just didn’t have the ability to do what the serpent said it would. Maybe it would later but it would be based on Gods time rather than humans. There is another tree that is of life but even then that tree is considered a reward and thus they wouldn’t qualify for it either. Any educated theist today would obviously believe in evolution. But at some point there is a demarcation where the genotype of Homo sapiens appeared. Even modern science refers to a "Mitochondrial Eve", the first genetic female human. It seems obvious the transition from brute primate to intelligent human being would be recorded in our species memory. The story may have even been passed down generation to generation for thousands of years, how man went from an ignorant ape to a creature which knew right from wrong. Disobedience may have been the transgression. But the fruit is allegorical for knowledge, the passage of human from ape to man. The bottom line is that if Eve had not transgressed humans would still be like animals, no knowledge of right and wrong. And the fruit did "work". Adam and Eve immediately covered themselves, as they had suddenly grasped sexual morality.
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Post by gameboy on Jun 3, 2019 1:38:58 GMT
The story is allegorical for the evolution of man from beast. At some point an ape became a man. This is what the ancients tried to explain with the story of Adam and Eve. At some point you have to reconcile the fruit from the tree of knowledge, given by Satan to man, with gifts given later by the Holy Spirit. It's not black and white. First of all, Satan didn't give ANYTHING to man. Simply telling someone to eat something that they are not supposed to, is not giving them anything. That tree with its fruit was there for them to eat at any given time, but, until Satan came along, the first couple was willing to obey God. While yes, the first few chapters of the Book of Genesis is allegorical for evolution, the part about man evolving from animals had already occurred, by the time of the eating of the forbidden fruits. Genesis chapter 1, verse 26: And God Said "Let us make man in our own image and likeness, let us make him in command of all the fish in the sea, and and all that flies in the air, and the cattle, and the whole earth...." Man's disobedience to God, via the temptation of the Serpent, was the ancients explaining why we do horrible things, ever since we evolved from primates. Even right in this very day, we have "Forbidden Fruits." Young people are not permitted to a)drink anything with alcohol; b)smoke tobacco; c)smoke or do narcotics (actually, many of the last item are forbidden no matter how old you are). So, kids try to go out of their way to have these things, & often times, end up in serious trouble. Please, do you not realize that these symbols have a purpose? It wasn't the "tree of dancing elves", or "the tree of plenty and starvation" or any other tree. The fact it's called "the tree of knowledge of good and evil" is of course central to the story. The "garden" was the bliss of ignorance. The fact that Satan was the one who tempted man to knowledge is significant. But as a Christian if you believe in evolution, who were Adam and Eve? We're they the first Homo sapiens?
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Post by clusium on Jun 3, 2019 3:23:39 GMT
First of all, Satan didn't give ANYTHING to man. Simply telling someone to eat something that they are not supposed to, is not giving them anything. That tree with its fruit was there for them to eat at any given time, but, until Satan came along, the first couple was willing to obey God. While yes, the first few chapters of the Book of Genesis is allegorical for evolution, the part about man evolving from animals had already occurred, by the time of the eating of the forbidden fruits. Genesis chapter 1, verse 26: And God Said "Let us make man in our own image and likeness, let us make him in command of all the fish in the sea, and and all that flies in the air, and the cattle, and the whole earth...." Man's disobedience to God, via the temptation of the Serpent, was the ancients explaining why we do horrible things, ever since we evolved from primates. Even right in this very day, we have "Forbidden Fruits." Young people are not permitted to a)drink anything with alcohol; b)smoke tobacco; c)smoke or do narcotics (actually, many of the last item are forbidden no matter how old you are). So, kids try to go out of their way to have these things, & often times, end up in serious trouble. Please, do you not realize that these symbols have a purpose? It wasn't the "tree of dancing elves", or "the tree of plenty and starvation" or any other tree. The fact it's called "the tree of knowledge of good and evil" is of course central to the story. The "garden" was the bliss of ignorance. The fact that Satan was the one who tempted man to knowledge is significant. But as a Christian if you believe in evolution, who were Adam and Eve? We're they the first Homo sapiens? Technically speaking, since Adam & Eve were the only 2 humans in the world at the time, in what way did good & evil even in exist then? Until they had sons, there were no murders; no thefts; or anything else. So, just what was even considered good and evil, before Adam & Eve ate the forbidden fruit? Obedience to God. When they ate the fruit, they realized that they had done evil, as they disobeyed God, Who Commanded them not to eat of the fruit. To answer your question, yes, I believe in evolution. As you noted in your post to CoolJGS, scientists refer to "Mitrochrondrial Eve," whom the first genetic female.
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Post by gameboy on Jun 3, 2019 3:58:29 GMT
Please, do you not realize that these symbols have a purpose? It wasn't the "tree of dancing elves", or "the tree of plenty and starvation" or any other tree. The fact it's called "the tree of knowledge of good and evil" is of course central to the story. The "garden" was the bliss of ignorance. The fact that Satan was the one who tempted man to knowledge is significant. But as a Christian if you believe in evolution, who were Adam and Eve? We're they the first Homo sapiens? Technically speaking, since Adam & Eve were the only 2 humans in the world at the time, in what way did good & evil even in exist then? Until they had sons, there were no murders; no thefts; or anything else. So, just what was even considered good and evil, before Adam & Eve ate the forbidden fruit? Obedience to God. When they ate the fruit, they realized that they had done evil, as they disobeyed God, Who Commanded them not to eat of the fruit. To answer your question, yes, I believe in evolution. As you noted in your post to CoolJGS, scientists refer to "Mitrochrondrial Eve," whom the first genetic female. But as I've said, since we know evolution to be a fact, the only way to explain the tree of knowledge and Adam and Eve covering their genitals after eating the fruit, is that it was an allegory about the transition from dumb animals to human beings with a sense of right and wrong.
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