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Post by clusium on Jun 3, 2019 4:10:23 GMT
Technically speaking, since Adam & Eve were the only 2 humans in the world at the time, in what way did good & evil even in exist then? Until they had sons, there were no murders; no thefts; or anything else. So, just what was even considered good and evil, before Adam & Eve ate the forbidden fruit? Obedience to God. When they ate the fruit, they realized that they had done evil, as they disobeyed God, Who Commanded them not to eat of the fruit. To answer your question, yes, I believe in evolution. As you noted in your post to CoolJGS, scientists refer to "Mitrochrondrial Eve," whom the first genetic female. But as I've said, since we know evolution to be a fact, the only way to explain the tree of knowledge and Adam and Eve covering their genitals after eating the fruit, is that it was an allegory about the transition from dumb animals to human beings with a sense of right and wrong. Except that Genesis already showed that man had evolved from ape, BEFORE the Fall. Genesis chapter 1, verse 26: " Let us make man in our own image, after our own likeness, to rule over the fish of the sea, and the birds of the air, over the livestock, and over the Earth itself, and every creature that crawls in it."
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Post by kls on Jun 3, 2019 4:34:41 GMT
I always wondered if they had no clue what good and evil were how could they have any clue what the consequences of their actions would be?
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jun 3, 2019 11:12:07 GMT
I always wondered if they had no clue what good and evil were how could they have any clue what the consequences of their actions would be? They knew what was right and wrong because they could quote what God told them was right or wrong. Anyone who is given rules is instructed on what is right and wrong and you don't have to do what is wrong to figure out what is right anyway. The confusion often lies in the who is crafting the conversation. Theophobiacs have to contort the story into one where God is oppressively holding back things it is impossible to stay away from as if this one tree was the equivalent of oxygen. In reality the story explains the amount of freedom they had. They could eat whatever on any tree, boink whenever, own everything, & not die to boot.
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Post by kls on Jun 3, 2019 11:22:30 GMT
I always wondered if they had no clue what good and evil were how could they have any clue what the consequences of their actions would be? They knew what was right and wrong because they could quote what God told them was right or wrong. Anyone who is given rules is instructed on what is right and wrong and you don't have to do what is wrong to figure out what is right anyway. The confusion often lies in the who is crafting the conversation. Theophobiacs have to contort the story into one where God is oppressively holding back things it is impossible to stay away from as if this one tree was the equivalent of oxygen. In reality the story explains the amount of freedom they had. They could eat whatever on any tree, boink whenever, own everything, & not die to boot. I understand, but how would they even know what to die would mean?
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jun 3, 2019 14:45:26 GMT
They knew what was right and wrong because they could quote what God told them was right or wrong. Anyone who is given rules is instructed on what is right and wrong and you don't have to do what is wrong to figure out what is right anyway. The confusion often lies in the who is crafting the conversation. Theophobiacs have to contort the story into one where God is oppressively holding back things it is impossible to stay away from as if this one tree was the equivalent of oxygen. In reality the story explains the amount of freedom they had. They could eat whatever on any tree, boink whenever, own everything, & not die to boot. I understand, but how would they even know what to die would mean? Why wouldn’t they know what death means? It’s the thing that they were not doing at the time. However I think a mistake that is often made is the notion that the only instruction ever received by God is the instruction written down or that all of this happened in one literal day. For example, Eve wasn’t around when God gave the instruction to not eat from the tree and yet she knew she couldn’t eat from the tree. There is no indication that animals or plants lived forever, so why wouldn’t they be familiar with the concept of death anyway? |
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Jun 4, 2019 4:21:25 GMT
You discovered the core truth of Satanism. It's about cosmic rebellion against an unjust order. The serpent gave Eve the fruit of knowledge. This symbolizes the evolution of man from a dumb brute to an embryonic god. Oh please. The eating of the forbidden fruit was not a liberating experience for the first man & woman. The first thing they both experienced, was the shame at the site of their bodies, & it caused the first marital breakdown between the both of them, with everyone blaming others for their own decisions. And you actually believe this stuff and take it literally. Oh please! 
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Jun 4, 2019 4:24:44 GMT
I always wondered if they had no clue what good and evil were how could they have any clue what the consequences of their actions would be? How do we know what the consequences of any action will be though, regardless of how we act?
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Post by clusium on Jun 4, 2019 4:45:16 GMT
Oh please. The eating of the forbidden fruit was not a liberating experience for the first man & woman. The first thing they both experienced, was the shame at the site of their bodies, & it caused the first marital breakdown between the both of them, with everyone blaming others for their own decisions. And you actually believe this stuff and take it literally. Oh please! Never said that I did. It is just the way that it is shown in Genesis, & satanists have twisted around to fit their own agenda. Get your facts straight. 
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Jun 4, 2019 11:46:33 GMT
And you actually believe this stuff and take it literally. Oh please! Never said that I did. It is just the way that it is shown in Genesis, & satanists have twisted around to fit their own agenda. Get your facts straight. You were the espousing your belief in the fairytale of scripture as though it is fact. That is why I called you out on it. Keep your lies in check.
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Post by clusium on Jun 4, 2019 13:47:31 GMT
Never said that I did. It is just the way that it is shown in Genesis, & satanists have twisted around to fit their own agenda. Get your facts straight. You were the espousing your belief in the fairytale of scripture as though it is fact. That is why I called you out on it. Keep your lies in check. I didn't lie about anything. This topic thread is about how Satan is portrayed in the story of Genesis; not about the actual scientific detail about how the world was created or whatever it actually was that caused human beings to fall into ruin.
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Post by The Lost One on Jun 4, 2019 19:21:08 GMT
Human beings already evolved from primates, by the time God Revealed Himself to His Creation. The Serpent didn't tempt primates, he tempted human beings. And knowledge & wisdom are not gifts from the Devil, they are Gifts Of the Holy Spirit (God) (Isaiah chapter 11, verses 1 - 2). The story is allegorical for the evolution of man from beast. At some point an ape became a man. This is what the ancients tried to explain with the story of Adam and Eve. At some point you have to reconcile the fruit from the tree of knowledge, given by Satan to man, with gifts given later by the Holy Spirit. It's not black and white. It seems unlikely that the authors of Genesis thought of the serpent as Satan: www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-topics/bible-interpretation/how-the-serpent-became-satan/The Eden story is there to explain the fallen nature of man, and provide a few "just so stories" details, like why the snakes have no legs and why humans hate them. There is no suggestion that disobeying God gave Adam and Eve anything beneficial. One could maybe say independence was better than the kept existence they had before, but even then they didn't gain that directly from eating the fruit but from the manner in which God chose to punish them. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jun 4, 2019 19:37:38 GMT
The story is allegorical for the evolution of man from beast. At some point an ape became a man. This is what the ancients tried to explain with the story of Adam and Eve. At some point you have to reconcile the fruit from the tree of knowledge, given by Satan to man, with gifts given later by the Holy Spirit. It's not black and white. It seems unlikely that the authors of Genesis thought of the serpent as Satan: www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-topics/bible-interpretation/how-the-serpent-became-satan/The Eden story is there to explain the fallen nature of man, and provide a few "just so stories" details, like why the snakes have no legs and why humans hate them. There is no suggestion that disobeying God gave Adam and Eve anything beneficial. One could maybe say independence was better than the kept existence they had before, but even then they didn't gain that directly from eating the fruit but from the manner in which God chose to punish them. [Job was written around the same time as the Pentateuch meaning that at the time of their writing they would have known about him. They were certainly already aware of bad angels even if they didn’t give much thought to a boss demon. I think people put to much emphasis on Genesis purpose. The book is only describing the history of Israelites. It could easily be a simple discussion on how God would redeem all people through this one group which is brought out through the entirety of scripture because they were the specific group God turned his attention to. There’s not much deeper metaphorically since the story already contains symbols and prophecies and the actions of all the characters is apparent and actually reflect exactly how they each behave. God is a creator, lawgiver, and judge. Satan is a deceiver in the disguise of a snake. Adam and Eve are Free agents that choose their fates based on what they desire. No need to dig much deeper except in regard to the prophecies. |
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Post by gameboy on Jun 5, 2019 5:57:57 GMT
The story is allegorical for the evolution of man from beast. At some point an ape became a man. This is what the ancients tried to explain with the story of Adam and Eve. At some point you have to reconcile the fruit from the tree of knowledge, given by Satan to man, with gifts given later by the Holy Spirit. It's not black and white. It seems unlikely that the authors of Genesis thought of the serpent as Satan: www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-topics/bible-interpretation/how-the-serpent-became-satan/The Eden story is there to explain the fallen nature of man, and provide a few "just so stories" details, like why the snakes have no legs and why humans hate them. There is no suggestion that disobeying God gave Adam and Eve anything beneficial. One could maybe say independence was better than the kept existence they had before, but even then they didn't gain that directly from eating the fruit but from the manner in which God chose to punish them. If we believe in Biblical cosmology then it's obvious the serpent is tied in with the angel later known as Satan. I'm not sure of the translation or whether it's been translated correctly, but it's called "the tree of knowledge of good and evil". I cannot believe that name is just a random one with no significance. The story is obviously trying to teach some moral.
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Jun 9, 2019 7:34:56 GMT
You were the espousing your belief in the fairytale of scripture as though it is fact. That is why I called you out on it. Keep your lies in check. I didn't lie about anything. This topic thread is about how Satan is portrayed in the story of Genesis; not about the actual scientific detail about how the world was created or whatever it actually was that caused human beings to fall into ruin. As we know, science is tossed aside for delusion when it comes to staunch believers in a religion. It is about the "interpretation" of Satan and what it\he is, and this includes OTHER aspects. With you, it is about your own rigid and inflexible mindset, which then disregards logic and common sense, because it doesn't sit comfortably with your delusion which is born out of lies.
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Jun 9, 2019 7:36:59 GMT
It seems unlikely that the authors of Genesis thought of the serpent as Satan: www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-topics/bible-interpretation/how-the-serpent-became-satan/The Eden story is there to explain the fallen nature of man, and provide a few "just so stories" details, like why the snakes have no legs and why humans hate them. There is no suggestion that disobeying God gave Adam and Eve anything beneficial. One could maybe say independence was better than the kept existence they had before, but even then they didn't gain that directly from eating the fruit but from the manner in which God chose to punish them. If we believe in Biblical cosmology then it's obvious the serpent is tied in with the angel later known as Satan. I'm not sure of the translation or whether it's been translated correctly, but it's called "the tree of knowledge of good and evil". I cannot believe that name is just a random one with no significance. The story is obviously trying to teach some moral. Yeah, but what? No believer can lucidly say.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Jun 9, 2019 8:01:06 GMT
If we believe in Biblical cosmology then it's obvious the serpent is tied in with the angel later known as Satan. I'm not sure of the translation or whether it's been translated correctly, but it's called "the tree of knowledge of good and evil". I cannot believe that name is just a random one with no significance. The story is obviously trying to teach some moral. Yeah, but what? No believer can lucidly say. Don't blame them if you're not lucid enough to get it.
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Jun 9, 2019 8:34:09 GMT
Yeah, but what? No believer can lucidly say. Don't blame them if you're not lucid enough to get it. That is the point genius, get what?
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Jun 9, 2019 8:35:44 GMT
Don't blame them if you're not lucid enough to get it. That is the point genius, get what? Get what Gameboy tried to explain to you....genius.
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Jun 9, 2019 9:21:08 GMT
That is the point genius, get what? Get what Gameboy tried to explain to you....genius. gameboy didn't explain anything, except to comment on it making some moral point...WHICH IS? This is what I am asking, if you know, tell me what the moral point is?
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Jun 9, 2019 9:29:38 GMT
Get what Gameboy tried to explain to you....genius. gameboy didn't explain anything, except to comment on it making some moral point...WHICH IS? This is what I am asking, if you know, tell me what the moral point is? The point, as best as I can phrase it on short notice, is do not rebel against your Creator, or there will be a negative outcome.
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