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Post by llanwydd on Jun 26, 2019 0:20:01 GMT
Have to agree with Arlon10 on this one. Sound is auditory. It involves ears.
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Post by Admin on Jun 26, 2019 1:09:36 GMT
We have never witnessed a tree falling silently. There is no reason to believe the tree in question doesn't make a sound. The issue here is whether or not a sound (transmission) needs to be heard (reception) for it to exist, and the argument that it does relies solely on semantic flip-flopping. How does one verify an illusion? And by that same token, there is no reason to believe it DOES make a sound, if not being experienced by a sentient being. You can only know what you know by witnessing and what that experience entails. It could be a shared experience, but nothing cannot possibly exist outside of your own realm of awareness. It is yours to own, not others. Even you sharing an experience with me, if I haven't experienced it, how can your experience possibly be real for me, except for the experience of you relaying that experience. But where is that experience? Yes, it does appear like semantic flip-flopping, but to get to the gist of the point and what one understands about the true nature of reality, that can't be helped. The penny may drop for some and not for others.
We verify as what is perceived as real everyday, but only by observation in that moment in time which then just becomes intangible memory. Where does this exist?
Nothing cannot exist outside the realm of your own awareness? Are you out of your mind? (Geddit?) Hearing something does not create what is being heard. The existence of a transmission does not depend on its reception, or even the lack thereof. It's going to exist regardless of whether or not anyone is aware of it.
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Post by Admin on Jun 26, 2019 1:35:16 GMT
Nothing cannot exist outside the realm of your own awareness? Are you out of your mind? (Geddit?) Hearing something does not create what is being heard. The existence of a transmission does not depend on its reception, or even the lack thereof. It's going to exist regardless of whether or not anyone is aware of it. How the heck is something existing, if you are not around to experience it? Are you out of your mind? Understanding the power and illusion of the mind, is paradoxically stepping out of it as well. That is what is really behind the true nature of logic, contrary to what scientific reasoning would have us believe. Heck, many scientists are still trying to locate the source of the mind within the brain.... Surely I'm misunderstand something here because it seems like you're saying that nothing exists until we know about it.
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Post by Admin on Jun 26, 2019 1:47:33 GMT
Surely I'm misunderstand something here because it seems like you're saying that nothing exists until we know about it. If you are not thinking of someone, or something, does it exist for you in that present moment? Oh, now it's a matter of existing for me? Oh, what a tangled web you weave. I don't know about you, but I can't think something into existence. Maybe I'm retarded.
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Post by Admin on Jun 26, 2019 1:58:43 GMT
Oh, now it's a matter of existing for me? Oh, what a tangled web you weave. I don't know about you, but I can't think something into existence. Maybe I'm retarded. Then like I have already commented, you don't understand the true nature of reality, or understand the power of what your mind creates. If you want to see yourself as retarded, be my guest. That is your bridge to cross Mr. Admin. It is your journey\dream\illusion. Hey, you're the one claiming to have the ability to receive that which has not been transmitted. How did you verify that illusion/delusion?
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Post by Admin on Jun 26, 2019 2:21:38 GMT
Hey, you're the one claiming to have the ability to receive that which has not been transmitted. How did you verify that illusion/delusion? Wasn't this your point and not mine? You are the one that has argued for the point of something existing\happening, when you are not experiencing it. I can only verify from my own experiences, not that which hasn't happened to me, or was a witness too. You are telling me that things are happening, even if I\we\you are not there. Yes, I know I have given you something to ponder over and I am not going to argue for your own limitations, that is too tiring, so you can wear yourself out doing that.
No, my argument is simple: Observation does not create that which is being observed. If nothing exists until we know about it, there would be nothing to know. Likewise, if the tree doesn't make a sound, there would be nothing to hear. I've read about people who believe they can think things into existence, but I've never actually met one until now. Are you not going to explain how illusions are verified?
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Post by Admin on Jun 26, 2019 2:37:34 GMT
No, my argument is simple: Observation does not create that which is being observed. If nothing exists until we know about it, there would be nothing to know. Likewise, if the tree doesn't make a sound, there would be nothing to hear. I've read about people who believe they can think things into existence, but I've never actually met one until now. Are you not going to explain how illusions are verified? I have answered your posts. We are just playing ping pong here, because we are on different wavelengths of understanding. You won't buy into what I have offered, just as I won't buy into your limitations of mind. I am too detached from what you are wanting to prove to me, because of what you only see as knowing taking precedence. The truth is, that we really know nothing. You are still leaning into this. All the best! How do you know that?Spin it however you like, but you can't discover something that doesn't exist. Later dude.
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Post by Admin on Jun 26, 2019 4:07:00 GMT
How do you know that?Spin it however you like, but you can't discover something that doesn't exist.Later dude. So perhaps you are not really discovering, or more aptly termed "uncovering".
You can't discover, uncover, see, hear, or receive something that doesn't exist. It doesn't matter how long of a list you make.
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Post by Admin on Jun 26, 2019 8:58:58 GMT
You can't discover, uncover, see, hear, or receive something that doesn't exist. It doesn't matter how long of a list you make. So then what is existence? In this case, it seems to be the sound the tree made when it fell.
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Post by Admin on Jun 26, 2019 9:13:53 GMT
In this case, it seems to be the sound the tree made when it fell. What tree? Where is it? Sounds unreal to me. Oh, I get it now. It's a trick question. There is no tree.
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Post by heeeeey on Jun 27, 2019 20:39:38 GMT
like...can you see me now? this thread I mean... some days it's hard to tell... Yes, you exist. But not here.
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Post by Admin on Jun 27, 2019 22:56:24 GMT
like...can you see me now? this thread I mean... some days it's hard to tell... Yes, you exist. But not here. Two kids are standing on opposite sides of a river. One kid yells to the other kid, "How do I get to the other side?" The other kid yelled back, "You are on the other side!"
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Post by heeeeey on Jun 27, 2019 23:04:55 GMT
Yes, you exist. But not here. Two kids are standing on opposite sides of a river. One kid yells to the other kid, "How do I get to the other side?" The other kid yelled back, "You are on the other side!" Exactly.
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Post by Arlon10 on Jun 28, 2019 3:57:33 GMT
You seem to be dodging the issue. We agree that if a tree falls in the forest it disturbs the air with pressure waves the same whether anyone is there to hear the air pressure ("sound") waves or not. Where we appear to disagree is that I believe "hearing a sound" involves making an impression on the mind of a sentient being beyond the mere translation to electric signals in the nervous system. This is difficult to verify since there is no way to read minds with scientific technology. Actually the fact that minds cannot be read suggests there is a transduction of not only from air pressure waves to electric nerve signals, but yet another transduction to mind media. If no sentient being is there then two stages of transduction will not happen. If answering the question is dodging the issue, then color me guilty. "We agree that if a tree falls in the forest it disturbs the air with pressure waves the same whether anyone is there to hear the air pressure ("sound") waves or not." Then we agree that the tree does indeed make a sound whether or not anyone is there to hear it. The "two stages" are transmission and reception. The former does not depend on the latter any more than a bullet needs to hit a target to be fired. You may as well say that if you close your eyes, there is no light. Maybe the deeper issue here is pride. How arrogant does one have to be to believe that if one can't see or hear something, it must be because there's nothing to be seen or heard? You have an obviously stubborn expectation for your own definition of "sound." You also are obviously oblivious to all the possibilities. Only by failing to recognize the mind and its particular form of reception can you insist it does not exist.
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Post by Admin on Jun 28, 2019 4:28:41 GMT
If answering the question is dodging the issue, then color me guilty. "We agree that if a tree falls in the forest it disturbs the air with pressure waves the same whether anyone is there to hear the air pressure ("sound") waves or not." Then we agree that the tree does indeed make a sound whether or not anyone is there to hear it. The "two stages" are transmission and reception. The former does not depend on the latter any more than a bullet needs to hit a target to be fired. You may as well say that if you close your eyes, there is no light. Maybe the deeper issue here is pride. How arrogant does one have to be to believe that if one can't see or hear something, it must be because there's nothing to be seen or heard? You have an obviously stubborn expectation for your own definition of "sound." You also are obviously oblivious to all the possibilities. Only by failing to recognize the mind and its particular form of reception can you insist it does not exist. Why are you talking about me? I'm talking about a tree. And besides, I'm saying it does exist. Can we talk about you now?
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Post by general313 on Jun 28, 2019 16:39:03 GMT
As long as there are salmon in the river, bears will not starve and will poop in the forest, thus ensuring that the forest stays healthy.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Sept 12, 2019 22:35:05 GMT
If you believe so.
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Post by lunda2222 on Sept 15, 2019 0:44:49 GMT
Only as long as I'm asleep and dream about you lot.
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Post by siberianhusky on Sept 30, 2019 6:36:24 GMT
Do you exist materially? Yes. Do you exist as a free being? No. Unless you fortunate to live in worker's state like DPKR you just cog in capitalist machine and no really exist.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2019 1:12:28 GMT
From our pov, yes. From a creator's pov, maybe not
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