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Post by Dirty Santa PaulsLaugh on Jun 11, 2019 22:52:37 GMT
phludowin
This is from Wikipedia:
The novella is based on the story of the Martyrs of Compiègne at the monastery of Carmelite nuns in Compiègne, northern France, in the wake of the French Revolution, specifically in 1794 at the time of state seizure of the monastery's assets.
The story is true. The opera is a dramatic recreation of those events.
By your logic, Marie Antoinette was never beheaded, "A Man for All Seasons" is a fairy tale, as is "Schlindler's List".
This happened to most monasteries/convents during the French Revolution. Similar happened in England once Henry VIII declared himself head of the church. Catholics and Protestants, Protestants and Protestants, Catholics and Catholics in Europe were at each other’s throats for centuries. America was founded, in part, to get the hell away from that. So, if you or the OP are going to dredge up every offense from history to prove a point then please make the point. Otherwise this is just an entertainment based on an historical event.
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Post by maya55555 on Jun 12, 2019 2:15:51 GMT
PaulsLaugh
OK If you need it spelled out for you. Christianity is under persecution. "History" programs twist the truth to make the Roman Catholic Church culpable for events which were not true. One example, Clement V NEVER signed any document ordering the extermination of the Knights Templar. That persecution was the sole construct of Philip IV.
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Post by goz on Jun 12, 2019 4:18:31 GMT
No, you're right. He did that. And Satan's greatest deception is to convince people that he doesn't exist. Convincing people that he AND Hell, do not exist!!!! Well, neither do, so what is the problem? 
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Post by clusium on Jun 12, 2019 4:36:10 GMT
Convincing people that he AND Hell, do not exist!!!! Well, neither do, so what is the problem?  They do. That IS the problem!!!
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Post by goz on Jun 12, 2019 4:40:07 GMT
Well, neither do, so what is the problem?  They do. That IS the problem!!! No, neither DO exist so there is actually no problem. Just live a good life...be a good person and then die at the end. It is really pretty simple when you think about it.
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Post by clusium on Jun 12, 2019 4:59:46 GMT
They do. That IS the problem!!! No, neither DO exist so there is actually no problem. Just live a good life...be a good person and then die at the end. It is really pretty simple when you think about it. Neither **DO** what exist, Goz? 
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Post by goz on Jun 12, 2019 5:06:07 GMT
No, neither DO exist so there is actually no problem. Just live a good life...be a good person and then die at the end. It is really pretty simple when you think about it. Neither **DO** what exist, Goz?  Neither Satan not Hell exist Clusium.
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Post by clusium on Jun 12, 2019 5:14:46 GMT
Neither **DO** what exist, Goz?  Neither Satan not Hell exist Clusium. Wrong.
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Post by goz on Jun 12, 2019 5:40:37 GMT
Neither Satan not Hell exist Clusium. Wrong. I know it is what you 'believe' however you cannot prove it. In my position of non-believing, no proof is required. It is such an easy way to live. You should try it some time.
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Post by phludowin on Jun 12, 2019 6:11:17 GMT
Well, neither do, so what is the problem? They do. That IS the problem!!! Prove it. EDIT: Hell exists. It's the name of towns in Norway or Michigan. But the Hell theists usually talk about? Since there is no afterlife, it doesn't exist.
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Post by phludowin on Jun 12, 2019 8:05:01 GMT
By your logic, Marie Antoinette was never beheaded, "A Man for All Seasons" is a fairy tale, as is "Schlindler's List". Actually, that would be your logic, since I never pretended that the events during the Terreur didn't happen. If I applied your "reasoning", I would pretend that you believe that the movies "Titanic", "Pearl Harbor" or "Amityville Horror" are documentaries. After all, all of them have true stories as background, haven't they?
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Post by maya55555 on Jun 12, 2019 13:53:17 GMT
The "Dialogue des Carmélites" is a work of fiction. The OP does not contain a synopsis of the videos. A quick Google search for "Carmélites persecutées" did not turn up incidents of persecution younger than the French Revolution. Conclusion: Nothing to see here. REFERENCE: Your comment above. REFERENCE: THE's statement above. So history has never repeated itself? Interesting.
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Post by clusium on Jun 12, 2019 14:55:37 GMT
I know it is what you 'believe' however you cannot prove it. In my position of non-believing, no proof is required. It is such an easy way to live. You should try it some time. No, I will not. Even if staunch atheists are right, and there is no God or gods, or any kind of life after death, at least after I die I will not be disappointed. And yes, I realize that Christianity is not the only religion that is out there, & that all the religions have differing views of God/gods, and what ever afterlife there is. However, even if any of those other religions are correct, at least I was prepared about the Divine and about the afterlife.
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Post by clusium on Jun 12, 2019 14:58:04 GMT
They do. That IS the problem!!! Prove it. EDIT: Hell exists. It's the name of towns in Norway or Michigan. But the Hell theists usually talk about? Since there is no afterlife, it doesn't exist. Vision of Hell
This is only just one example. There are numerous others, including NDEs.
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Post by phludowin on Jun 12, 2019 16:57:54 GMT
Prove it. EDIT: Hell exists. It's the name of towns in Norway or Michigan. But the Hell theists usually talk about? Since there is no afterlife, it doesn't exist. Vision of Hell
This is only just one example. There are numerous others, including NDEs. Eyewitness accounts? Anecdotal evidence? The kind of evidence that also exists for mermaids? If that's good enough for you, fine. I prefer the work of scientists, from Benjamin Libet to modern neurologists. Their findings are evidence against an afterlife, and in my opinion more reliable.
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Post by clusium on Jun 12, 2019 19:21:06 GMT
Vision of Hell
This is only just one example. There are numerous others, including NDEs. Eyewitness accounts? Anecdotal evidence? The kind of evidence that also exists for mermaids? If that's good enough for you, fine. I prefer the work of scientists, from Benjamin Libet to modern neurologists. Their findings are evidence against an afterlife, and in my opinion more reliable. Scientists have found that the soul doesn't die. The soul returns to the universe. Scientists Have Found That The Soul Doesn't Die
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Post by phludowin on Jun 12, 2019 20:01:53 GMT
Eyewitness accounts? Anecdotal evidence? The kind of evidence that also exists for mermaids? If that's good enough for you, fine. I prefer the work of scientists, from Benjamin Libet to modern neurologists. Their findings are evidence against an afterlife, and in my opinion more reliable. Scientists have found that the soul doesn't die. The soul returns to the universe. Scientists Have Found That The Soul Doesn't Die Orch-OR is a very shaky theory; but if it were true, it would still show no evidence for the Hell some theists seem to advocate.
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Post by goz on Jun 12, 2019 20:19:15 GMT
Eyewitness accounts? Anecdotal evidence? The kind of evidence that also exists for mermaids? If that's good enough for you, fine. I prefer the work of scientists, from Benjamin Libet to modern neurologists. Their findings are evidence against an afterlife, and in my opinion more reliable. Scientists have found that the soul doesn't die. The soul returns to the universe. Scientists Have Found That The Soul Doesn't Die Scientists haven't found any such thing. There is one theory by one small group of researchers. So far it is untested and untestable so it remains one idea that needs a lot of research to even contemplate. BTW this is totally at odds with the religious view, particularly of Catholics, were it even partly true. Even in this short quote direct from the article, they are unsure whether the microtubules are functioning in the heart or the brain  It is really annoying when people like you and Heeeey get hold of an idea that has the word 'science' in it and translate it with wishful thinking into what is your current quasi religious agenda.
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Post by faustus5 on Jun 12, 2019 21:29:49 GMT
That article is complete and utter bullshit, and I'm writing as someone who a) is very well informed about this field and b) already knew about the so-called "science" they are desperately distorting to make it say what even its supporters do not. (Well, Hameroff has said some pretty crazy, stupid stuff that isn't supported.)
Don't cite stuff you don't even understand yourself.
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Post by goz on Jun 12, 2019 21:57:51 GMT
Prove it. EDIT: Hell exists. It's the name of towns in Norway or Michigan. But the Hell theists usually talk about? Since there is no afterlife, it doesn't exist. Vision of Hell
This is only just one example. There are numerous others, including NDEs. It is very interesting that you bring up the good old NDEs again, because your pinup boy Dr Stuart Hameroff, who you quote below as having the answers to where you 'soul' goes after death, has some VERY interesting things to say about them that don't support your theory at all. He doesn't dismiss them, in fact, like regular scientists he knows that they happen, he does however have a more detailed explanation for them. Once again I would take Faustus' advice NOT to claim things about which your know very little, beyond the heading of an article. Let me quote him from an interview he gave: NO-ONE is saying that NDE's aren't real and don't happen, however the scientists of all types are now coming to know what actually causes them, though they still can't agree on why they happen. It's certainly not a glimpse into an afterlife as much as people like you and Heeeey might wish it.
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