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Post by gadreel on Jun 16, 2019 21:09:47 GMT
it's a moot point.
God is the source. For our universe and all of our existence God is the end point (start point but you know what I mean), h ow God came to be is of no concern, it is information that is beyond even knowing what God is and God is already beyond our knowledge. In any case it makes no difference how God got there, God is still the source of OUR creation.(all this written assuming you believe, if you dont believe the point is even more moot) There is NO end point, there is NO start point. God, to use the term loosely, is already within and without us. It is not knowledge that will lead one to God, but knowing that WE ARE the source of our creation, therefore our own God. That is how we learn to act wisely. God as the creation force is the start point of our creation. Unless you think our creation is eternal.
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Post by gadreel on Jun 16, 2019 21:13:13 GMT
Who is GOD's parents?That's one of several questions, that I asked as a kid, of which no one could answer in a satisfactory manner... gadreel " God is the source."... " how God came to be is of no concern" Yeah, that is basically what most people told me... However, I couldn't accept that GOD just existed and instantly knew how to create the universe and everything in it in just Six Days!... And so, I quickly distanced myself from being "religious", because I knew that much of what I was being told to "believe" in, just didn't make any sense, and that much of it had to be BS... While I will admit, that there are SOME things, that Science can NOT answer for me... And that I still try to keep an open mind that GOD & Religion may be the best explanations for THOSE things... I do remain skeptical that GOD & Religion are the ONLY answers that can fill in those blanks... And So, I try to examine all of the available evidence, and look for other possibilities, whenever I can... Ultimately though... I still can't accept that 0 + 0 = 1... And so, "Something" had to intentionally jump-start the creation our complex universe... Because it wasn't just a random event. Yeah I may have worded that badly, it's not that it is of no concern per se, but more that these are questions that cannot possibly be answered, devoting time to them may interesting intellectually, but serve no real purpose in terms of advancing our spirituality. And often they are used as obfuscating questions that turn us away from the important questions.
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Post by goz on Jun 16, 2019 21:15:17 GMT
Nice side stepping. I always like more moot points and would like more mooter points EVEN more etc It reminds me of the sign on President Truman's desk about your concept of God. 'The buck stops here'. Yeah you missed the point. It's just intellectual fuckwhoppery. At the end of the day (assuming you believe) the source of God is not important. God could well be a living creature with a finite lifespan, but in terms of our universe and how we percieve it, God is eternal. Moreover it's intellectual fuckwhoppery because there is no way to answer it. Sure it might be fun to contemplate but at the end of the day the nature of God itself is simply speculation and has no real value in terms of how god affects the known universe.
I mean posit an argument that makes the origin of God important.
So why would anyone believe in such fuckwhoppery?
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Post by gadreel on Jun 16, 2019 21:18:56 GMT
Yeah you missed the point. It's just intellectual fuckwhoppery. At the end of the day (assuming you believe) the source of God is not important. God could well be a living creature with a finite lifespan, but in terms of our universe and how we percieve it, God is eternal. Moreover it's intellectual fuckwhoppery because there is no way to answer it. Sure it might be fun to contemplate but at the end of the day the nature of God itself is simply speculation and has no real value in terms of how god affects the known universe.
I mean posit an argument that makes the origin of God important.
So why would anyone believe in such fuckwhoppery? Sorry I fail to see where a claim was made that people believe in, perhaps you can afford to be more specific? What fuckwhoppery exactly are you asking that people believe in?
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Post by goz on Jun 16, 2019 21:23:03 GMT
So why would anyone believe in such fuckwhoppery? Sorry I fail to see where a claim was made that people believe in, perhaps you can afford to be more specific? What fuckwhoppery exactly are you asking that people believe in?
This claim of yours
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Post by gadreel on Jun 16, 2019 21:33:41 GMT
Sorry I fail to see where a claim was made that people believe in, perhaps you can afford to be more specific? What fuckwhoppery exactly are you asking that people believe in?
This claim of yours I am sorry, let em get this straight, you took my answer as to the cause of God being intellectual wanking given that it has no way for us to possibly answer it, and then asked why people believe in a creator god? Please help me to see your logic in how you came to conflate the two questions.
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Post by goz on Jun 16, 2019 21:51:17 GMT
I am sorry, let em get this straight, you took my answer as to the cause of God being intellectual wanking given that it has no way for us to possibly answer it, and then asked why people believe in a creator god? Please help me to see your logic in how you came to conflate the two questions. You have pinpointed the exact problem. People do that in order to believe. It is quite illogical.
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Post by gadreel on Jun 16, 2019 22:09:14 GMT
I am sorry, let em get this straight, you took my answer as to the cause of God being intellectual wanking given that it has no way for us to possibly answer it, and then asked why people believe in a creator god? Please help me to see your logic in how you came to conflate the two questions.You have pinpointed the exact problem. People do that in order to believe. It is quite illogical. You are not making sense. Be very very clear, people do what in order to believe, what does belief have to do with the question in the OP. Please explain in full coherent sentences what your point is and what question you have around this point.
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Post by goz on Jun 16, 2019 22:24:06 GMT
You have pinpointed the exact problem. People do that in order to believe. It is quite illogical. You are not making sense. Be very very clear, people do what in order to believe, what does belief have to do with the question in the OP. Please explain in full coherent sentences what your point is and what question you have around this point. I am making perfect sense. Theists make all kinds of ridiculous mental gymnastics to justify their logically unjustifiable belief in 'god'. YOU called if fuckwhoppery. I agreed, and wondered how and why they make what can only be 'a leap of faith' to believe in God when there is no logical reason, given that you say God is eternal and unknowable.
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Post by gadreel on Jun 16, 2019 22:31:10 GMT
You are not making sense. Be very very clear, people do what in order to believe, what does belief have to do with the question in the OP. Please explain in full coherent sentences what your point is and what question you have around this point. I am making perfect sense. Theists make all kinds of ridiculous mental gymnastics to justify their logically unjustifiable belief in 'god'. YOU called if fuckwhoppery. I agreed, and wondered how and why they make what can only be 'a leap of faith' to believe in God when there is no logical reason, given that you say God is eternal and unknowable. How does my claim that the cause of God is unknowable ( I never claimed that God is eternal, I think you will find that makes no sense in the context fo what I said) have any bearing on the cause of God and the nature of belief of God?
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Post by goz on Jun 16, 2019 22:40:48 GMT
I am making perfect sense. Theists make all kinds of ridiculous mental gymnastics to justify their logically unjustifiable belief in 'god'. YOU called if fuckwhoppery. I agreed, and wondered how and why they make what can only be 'a leap of faith' to believe in God when there is no logical reason, given that you say God is eternal and unknowable. How does my claim that the cause of God is unknowable ( I never claimed that God is eternal, I think you will find that makes no sense in the context fo what I said) have any bearing on the cause of God and the nature of belief of God? What on earth is 'the cause of God'? You mean whether God has a creator like allegedly we do? We can agree that the nature of belief is illogical, however if God is unknowable?
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Jun 16, 2019 22:41:45 GMT
There is NO end point, there is NO start point. God, to use the term loosely, is already within and without us. It is not knowledge that will lead one to God, but knowing that WE ARE the source of our creation, therefore our own God. That is how we learn to act wisely. God as the creation force is the start point of our creation. Unless you think our creation is eternal. One would also have to define creation as well as God and what this entails. It is all ad-infinitum. The whole is the whole, inside and out. How does one pinpoint a start and an end point for the universe? The dream\delusion ends when we wake up to the unrealness of what is only seen as real.
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Post by gadreel on Jun 16, 2019 22:52:19 GMT
How does my claim that the cause of God is unknowable ( I never claimed that God is eternal, I think you will find that makes no sense in the context fo what I said) have any bearing on the cause of God and the nature of belief of God? What on earth is 'the cause of God'? You mean whether God has a creator like allegedly we do? We can agree that the nature of belief is illogical, however if God is unknowable? No we cannot agree that the nature of belief is illogical, the fact that God is unknowable does not impinge on the question of it's existence.
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Post by gadreel on Jun 16, 2019 22:54:12 GMT
God as the creation force is the start point of our creation. Unless you think our creation is eternal. One would also have to define creation as well as God and what this entails. It is all ad-infinitum. The whole is the whole, inside and out. How does one pinpoint a start and an end point for the universe? The dream\delusion ends when we wake up to the unrealness of what is only seen as real. The start of our universe (trapped as it is in time) is either the big bang, or gods I am depending on which argument you follow. The argument is generally that the source of God or the Big Bang is a moot point, they were there outside of the time of our universe.
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Jun 16, 2019 22:58:28 GMT
One would also have to define creation as well as God and what this entails. It is all ad-infinitum. The whole is the whole, inside and out. How does one pinpoint a start and an end point for the universe? The dream\delusion ends when we wake up to the unrealness of what is only seen as real. The start of our universe (trapped as it is in time) is either the big bang, or gods I am depending on which argument you follow. The argument is generally that the source of God or the Big Bang is a moot point, they were there outside of the time of our universe. I am not limiting myself to what we see as beyond 'our' universe. There is NO separation and no 'ours' either. The rest is just mythology, being there outside of time. That is not even real.
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Post by goz on Jun 17, 2019 0:07:31 GMT
What on earth is 'the cause of God'? You mean whether God has a creator like allegedly we do? We can agree that the nature of belief is illogical, however if God is unknowable? No we cannot agree that the nature of belief is illogical, the fact that God is unknowable does not impinge on the question of it's existence. ...butt it is illogical!
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Post by gadreel on Jun 17, 2019 0:43:30 GMT
No we cannot agree that the nature of belief is illogical, the fact that God is unknowable does not impinge on the question of it's existence. ...butt it is illogical! I have no doubts that you find it illogical, but given the internal logic of your responses, I am also not fantastically surprised.
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