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Post by Cody™ on Jun 20, 2019 8:33:34 GMT
Everyone open your bibles to Isaiah chapter 6.
““Woe to me!” I cried. “I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord Almighty.””
ISAIAH 6:5
So we have the prophet Isaiah declaring to have seen Yahweh with his own eyes.
Now turn to John 12:
“Even after Jesus had performed so many signs in their presence, they still would not believe in him. This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet: “Lord, who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?” For this reason they could not believe, because, as Isaiah says elsewhere: “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn—and I would heal them.” Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus’ glory and spoke about him.”
JOHN 12:37-41
Interesting, so Isaiah saw Jesus’ glory.
Isaiah saw Yahweh with his own eyes.
Isaiah saw Jesus.
Therefore Jesus is Yahweh.
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Post by Isapop on Jun 20, 2019 12:42:58 GMT
Everyone open your bibles to Isaiah chapter 6. ““Woe to me!” I cried. “I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord Almighty.””ISAIAH 6:5So we have the prophet Isaiah declaring to have seen Yahweh with his own eyes. Now turn to John 12: “Even after Jesus had performed so many signs in their presence, they still would not believe in him. This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet: “Lord, who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?” For this reason they could not believe, because, as Isaiah says elsewhere: “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn—and I would heal them.” Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus’ glory and spoke about him.”JOHN 12:37-41 Interesting, so Isaiah saw Jesus’ glory. Therefore Jesus is Yahweh. I don't see that you have a point. John is first referring to Isaiah 53, which talks about the Messiah. So, as you said, you've got: Isaiah saw Yahweh with his own eyes.
Isaiah saw Jesus. How can you conclude "Therefore Jesus is Yahweh" when you could just as easily conclude that Isaiah saw them both?
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Post by Cody™ on Jun 20, 2019 13:51:39 GMT
Everyone open your bibles to Isaiah chapter 6. ““Woe to me!” I cried. “I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord Almighty.””ISAIAH 6:5So we have the prophet Isaiah declaring to have seen Yahweh with his own eyes. Now turn to John 12: “Even after Jesus had performed so many signs in their presence, they still would not believe in him. This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet: “Lord, who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?” For this reason they could not believe, because, as Isaiah says elsewhere: “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn—and I would heal them.” Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus’ glory and spoke about him.”JOHN 12:37-41 Interesting, so Isaiah saw Jesus’ glory. Therefore Jesus is Yahweh. I don't see that you have a point. John is first referring to Isaiah 53, which talks about the Messiah. So, as you said, you've got: Isaiah saw Yahweh with his own eyes.
Isaiah saw Jesus. How can you conclude "Therefore Jesus is Yahweh" when you could just as easily conclude that Isaiah saw them both?
A) We have no scriptural reference to go on of Isaiah seeing the messiah. B) Jesus existing pre-incarnation testifies to his deity. C) What Isaiah saw was Yahweh who exists as a trinity. Father, Son and Holy Spirit. D) All the great Christian commentators conclude that it was Jesus whom Isaiah saw in chapter 6:5. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2019 13:57:27 GMT
Who the hell is yahweh?
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Post by Isapop on Jun 20, 2019 14:13:49 GMT
I don't see that you have a point. John is first referring to Isaiah 53, which talks about the Messiah. So, as you said, you've got: Isaiah saw Yahweh with his own eyes.
Isaiah saw Jesus. How can you conclude "Therefore Jesus is Yahweh" when you could just as easily conclude that Isaiah saw them both?
A) We have no scriptural reference to go on of Isaiah seeing the messiah. There's plenty of Christian commentary out there saying that Isaiah 53 is about the messiah. Here are two samples. carm.org/does-isaiah-53-predict-jesus-messiah www.gotquestions.org/suffering-servant-Isaiah-53.html His deity (divine quality) doesn't automatically make him Yahweh.That's what you are trying to prove with your OP. You can't state your conclusion as an argument in support of your conclusion. (That's like a really really basic violation of logic.)If they do, it has to be for reasons other than what's in your OP. Because your OP just fails to prove what you claim it does.
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Post by Cody™ on Jun 20, 2019 14:50:29 GMT
A) We have no scriptural reference to go on of Isaiah seeing the messiah. There's plenty of Christian commentary out there saying that Isaiah 53 is about the messiah. Here are two samples. carm.org/does-isaiah-53-predict-jesus-messiah www.gotquestions.org/suffering-servant-Isaiah-53.html His deity (divine quality) doesn't automatically make him Yahweh.That's what you are trying to prove with your OP. You can't state your conclusion as an argument in support of your conclusion. (That's like a really really basic violation of logic.)If they do, it has to be for reasons other than what's in your OP. Because your OP just fails to prove what you claim it does. “There's plenty of Christian commentary out there saying that Isaiah 53 is about the messiah. Here are two samples.” Yes we know. But there’s a world of difference between prophesying about the messiah and actually seeing him with your own eyes. “His deity (divine quality) doesn't automatically make him Yahweh.” Actually it does. Because the bible teaches that there is only one true God, Yahweh. So if Jesus is a true deity/God/divine as the bible attests, then he is indeed Yahweh. “That's what you are trying to prove with your OP. You can't state your conclusion as an argument in support of your conclusion. (That's like a really really basic violation of logic.)” Already presented my argument. In the OT Isaiah claims to have seen Yahweh in his glory. John ties Jesus to Yahweh by declaring that it was Jesus’ glory that was seen by Isaiah in a gospel that overwhelmingly teaches the deity of Christ. And we have no other reference of Isaiah seeing the messiah or some other divine figure other than Yahweh. |
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Post by drystyx on Jun 22, 2019 8:44:52 GMT
It's whose way that Frank does it when he doesn't do it his own way. Then he does it "yah weh".
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jun 22, 2019 11:03:32 GMT
Here I thought this was some kind of "Verses we like" thread... John Is literally telling us the quote is Isaiah 53...Not even vaguely.  |
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Post by Cody™ on Jun 22, 2019 11:13:26 GMT
Here I thought this was some kind of "Verses we like" thread... John Is literally telling us the quote is Isaiah 53...Not even vaguely. We know Isaiah spoke about Jesus, but when exactly did he see him in his glory as John is literally telling us?...Not even vaguely. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jun 22, 2019 12:27:51 GMT
Here I thought this was some kind of "Verses we like" thread... John Is literally telling us the quote is Isaiah 53...Not even vaguely. We know Isaiah spoke about Jesus, but when exactly did he see him in his glory as John is literally telling us?...Not even vaguely. That would require research beyond the link you present. Isaiah is a pretty big book, but I can look for it for you.
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Post by Cody™ on Jun 22, 2019 13:16:38 GMT
We know Isaiah spoke about Jesus, but when exactly did he see him in his glory as John is literally telling us?...Not even vaguely. That would require research beyond the link you present. Isaiah is a pretty big book, but I can look for it for you. Be my guest. |
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