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Post by Agent of Chaos on Jun 21, 2019 23:11:39 GMT
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Post by ThatGuy on Jun 22, 2019 12:42:30 GMT
Or it could be that it's the same writer of both movies? He is just remaking a previous movie of his.
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Post by politicidal on Jun 22, 2019 16:54:12 GMT
Or it could be that it's the same writer of both movies? He is just remaking a previous movie of his. Perhaps. Unless it was just another red herring.  Simon, you rascal.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Jun 23, 2019 3:07:16 GMT
Or it could be that it's the same writer of both movies? He is just remaking a previous movie of his. Are you referring to The Last Stand or Days of Future Past? If it’s the former, this not only has no cure plot but it also technically lacks a... Dark Phoenix plot as well.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Jun 23, 2019 12:23:37 GMT
So this what we're doing out here with our free time? Remaking X3? It's like they only listened to the "Take the Cure plot out" people. Bait and switch.  |
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Post by ThatGuy on Jun 23, 2019 17:51:59 GMT
Or it could be that it's the same writer of both movies? He is just remaking a previous movie of his. Are you referring to The Last Stand or Days of Future Past? If it’s the former, this not only has no cure plot but it also technically lacks a... Dark Phoenix plot as well. Heh...
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Jun 24, 2019 10:01:34 GMT
Are you referring to The Last Stand or Days of Future Past? If it’s the former, this not only has no cure plot but it also technically lacks a... Dark Phoenix plot as well. Heh... But seriously...
the whole point of the movie was that Jean doesn’t become Dark Phoenix again despite it being her “destiny” and she doesn’t become this because Xavier believed that she can control her powers and that she doesn’t need fixing. Which is in contrast to X-Men: The Last Stand where Xavier believed that Jean couldn’t control her power and needed to be fixed, which resulted in her becoming Dark Phoenix.
Its not a remake if the story is turned upside down.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jun 24, 2019 13:16:01 GMT
But seriously...
the whole point of the movie was that Jean doesn’t become Dark Phoenix again despite it being her “destiny” and she doesn’t become this because Xavier believed that she can control her powers and that she doesn’t need fixing. Which is in contrast to X-Men: The Last Stand where Xavier believed that Jean couldn’t control her power and needed to be fixed, which resulted in her becoming Dark Phoenix.
Its not a remake if the story is turned upside down. That makes it even worse than a [bad] remake. It's some weird fix which no one asked for but, West, vain as he is, felt he needed to go back and patch his earlier work.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Jul 9, 2019 19:38:38 GMT
But seriously...
the whole point of the movie was that Jean doesn’t become Dark Phoenix again despite it being her “destiny” and she doesn’t become this because Xavier believed that she can control her powers and that she doesn’t need fixing. Which is in contrast to X-Men: The Last Stand where Xavier believed that Jean couldn’t control her power and needed to be fixed, which resulted in her becoming Dark Phoenix.
Its not a remake if the story is turned upside down. That makes it even worse than a [bad] remake. It's some weird fix which no one asked for but, West, vain as he is, felt he needed to go back and patch his earlier work. I came across an interview that Simon Kinberg did with Screen Rant back in May. He said this movie is suppose to connect to DOFP and it’s ending. Remember, how that ended? With Jean alive and as one of the heroes. It’s not a remake but a prequel to that ending showing how Jean’s fate was changed.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jul 9, 2019 22:48:36 GMT
That makes it even worse than a [bad] remake. It's some weird fix which no one asked for but, West, vain as he is, felt he needed to go back and patch his earlier work. I came across an interview that Simon Kinberg did with Screen Rant back in May. He said this movie is suppose to connect to DOFP and it’s ending. Remember, how that ended? With Jean alive and as one of the heroes. It’s not a remake but a prequel to that ending showing how Jean’s fate was changed. This is all very headache-inducing and, none of it explains why Dark Phoenix is an abject failure as a superhero film. Kinberg sounds like he's so far up his own ass he'd tell you that DoFP and DP were meant to be spiritual successors to Citizen Kane. It seemed that he was "trying" to do a lot of things with DP and failed at most of them. That said, let's assume this is all true and Kinberg was successful (at whatever it was he was trying to accomplish). What does it all mean? Do we leapfrog over apocalypse as if it never happened? Does the tenuous connection between DoFP and DP somehow make DP a better film? All of these explanations, rationalizations, and reminiscing on loves long lost don't add up to anything other than a generous serving of nothing-burger with a flowery garnish.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Jul 9, 2019 23:20:42 GMT
I came across an interview that Simon Kinberg did with Screen Rant back in May. He said this movie is suppose to connect to DOFP and it’s ending. Remember, how that ended? With Jean alive and as one of the heroes. It’s not a remake but a prequel to that ending showing how Jean’s fate was changed. This is all very headache-inducing and, none of it explains why Dark Phoenix is an abject failure as a superhero film. Kinberg sounds like he's so far up his own ass he'd tell you that DoFP and DP were meant to be spiritual successors to Citizen Kane. It seemed that he was "trying" to do a lot of things with DP and failed at most of them. That said, let's assume this is all true and Kinberg was successful (at whatever it was he was trying to accomplish). What does it all mean? Do we leapfrog over apocalypse as if it never happened? Does the tenuous connection between DoFP and DP somehow make DP a better film? All of these explanations, rationalizations, and reminiscing on loves long lost don't add up to anything other than a generous serving of nothing-burger with a flowery garnish. The story doesn’t land when you look at it as a stand-alone film, but it works a little when you look at it from the context of all the Kinberg written X-films. Its connection to DOFP is stronger than you think. And we are not suppose to leapfrog over Apocalypse because that sets up Jean’s overarching character arc. 
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jul 10, 2019 0:04:47 GMT
This is all very headache-inducing and, none of it explains why Dark Phoenix is an abject failure as a superhero film. Kinberg sounds like he's so far up his own ass he'd tell you that DoFP and DP were meant to be spiritual successors to Citizen Kane. It seemed that he was "trying" to do a lot of things with DP and failed at most of them. That said, let's assume this is all true and Kinberg was successful (at whatever it was he was trying to accomplish). What does it all mean? Do we leapfrog over apocalypse as if it never happened? Does the tenuous connection between DoFP and DP somehow make DP a better film? All of these explanations, rationalizations, and reminiscing on loves long lost don't add up to anything other than a generous serving of nothing-burger with a flowery garnish. The story doesn’t land when you look at it as a stand-alone film, but it works a little when you look at it from the context of all the Kinberg written X-films. Its connection to DOFP is stronger than you think. And we are not suppose to leapfrog over Apocalypse because that sets up Jean’s overarching character arc. Interesting, it's too bad that no one outside of the hardcore fanbase is going to take any of this into account when evaluating Dark Phoenix on its own. You can't will Dark Phoenix into being a better film than it is. No amount of conjecturing or evangelizing for Kinberg and the weak-willed execution of his vision can do that. I could be wrong, but I don't see a day where the majority of audiences revisit DoFP, XMA, and DP and suddenly hail them as a singular entity with a perfectly unified and symmetrical vision. These films will end up in dollar bins. They will be used as come-ons for you to up your streaming service premiums. The copy will read, "stream the complete series now in glorious 4K for only $2 more per month!" I know what it's like to be on the tail end of a dying fandom, at some point, you have to accept things as they are.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Jul 10, 2019 0:54:35 GMT
The story doesn’t land when you look at it as a stand-alone film, but it works a little when you look at it from the context of all the Kinberg written X-films. Its connection to DOFP is stronger than you think. And we are not suppose to leapfrog over Apocalypse because that sets up Jean’s overarching character arc. Interesting, it's too bad that no one outside of the hardcore fanbase is going to take any of this into account when evaluating Dark Phoenix on its own. You can't will Dark Phoenix into being a better film than it is. No amount of conjecturing or evangelizing for Kinberg and the weak-willed execution of his vision can do that. I could be wrong, but I don't see a day where the majority of audiences revisit DoFP, XMA, and DP and suddenly hail them as a singular entity with a perfectly unified and symmetrical vision. These films will end up in dollar bins. They will be used as come-ons for you to up your streaming service premiums. The copy will read, "stream the complete series now in glorious 4K for only $2 more per month!" I know what it's like to be on the tail end of a dying fandom, at some point, you have to accept things as they are. That is exactly what the Screen Rant review said.  So no, I don’t expect most people to sit down marathoning X3, DOFP, XMA, and DP. I do expect people to enjoy Dark Phoenix more over time since I believe that it’s misleading marketing of Jean being a villain hurt the film based on the many reviews I have seen.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Jul 10, 2019 11:12:43 GMT
Btw, Lord Death Man would you agree that many of the emotional beats of the MCU films such as Endgame and Far From Home wouldn’t land without their connection to previous films? |
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jul 10, 2019 14:25:05 GMT
Btw, Lord Death Man would you agree that many of the emotional beats of the MCU films such as Endgame and Far From Home wouldn’t land without their connection to previous films? I think a lot of them would land but, they would be far less impactful without their corresponding counterpart.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Jul 10, 2019 15:37:55 GMT
Btw, Lord Death Man would you agree that many of the emotional beats of the MCU films such as Endgame and Far From Home wouldn’t land without their connection to previous films? I think a lot of them would land but, they would be far less impactful without their corresponding counterpart. I dunno. Endgame really doesn’t hold the audience’s hand. Like Gamora and Peter’s “reunion” would hold zero weight without knowledge of previous films. Don’t think they even said that they had a relationship until after that scene.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jul 10, 2019 16:56:27 GMT
I think a lot of them would land but, they would be far less impactful without their corresponding counterpart. I dunno. Endgame really doesn’t hold the audience’s hand. Like Gamora and Peter’s “reunion” would hold zero weight without knowledge of previous films. Don’t think they even said that they had a relationship until after that scene. But that's not really a callback like "I can do this all day" or, "I am Iron Man." Peter's reunion with Gamora is a legit and DIRECT continuation of a story thread which started in a previous film in the series. Endgame, while not giving you the full story of their separation, does communicate enough information for an audience member to know that two people who were once in a close relationship are now getting back together after a long separation. You may not gather all of the subtle nuances of their exchanges, but you do get that they were close.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Jul 10, 2019 22:05:43 GMT
I dunno. Endgame really doesn’t hold the audience’s hand. Like Gamora and Peter’s “reunion” would hold zero weight without knowledge of previous films. Don’t think they even said that they had a relationship until after that scene. But that's not really a callback like "I can do this all day" or, "I am Iron Man." Peter's reunion with Gamora is a legit and DIRECT continuation of a story thread which started in a previous film in the series. Endgame, while not giving you the full story of their separation, does communicate enough information for an audience member to know that two people who were once in a close relationship are now getting back together after a long separation. You may not gather all of the subtle nuances of their exchanges, but you do get that they were close. I wasn’t talking about callbacks. By “emotional beats” I mean like Mystique’s death and Beast grieving her. I remember seeing one review that said he didn’t care because he never knew they had a thing(seems like he never saw First Class).
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jul 10, 2019 23:02:16 GMT
But that's not really a callback like "I can do this all day" or, "I am Iron Man." Peter's reunion with Gamora is a legit and DIRECT continuation of a story thread which started in a previous film in the series. Endgame, while not giving you the full story of their separation, does communicate enough information for an audience member to know that two people who were once in a close relationship are now getting back together after a long separation. You may not gather all of the subtle nuances of their exchanges, but you do get that they were close. I wasn’t talking about callbacks. By “emotional beats” I mean like Mystique’s death and Beast grieving her. I remember seeing one review that said he didn’t care because he never knew they had a thing(seems like he never saw First Class). The distance between First Class and Dark Phoenix is immense when compared to say Infinity War and Endgame. Peter and Gamora are firmly established as a couple in an immediately proceeding entry in the same series. Can we really expect that the average critique could think back nearly a decade to First Class without being a dedicated stalwart of the series? I think not especially given the uneven performance of the series overall.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Jul 12, 2019 17:49:52 GMT
I wasn’t talking about callbacks. By “emotional beats” I mean like Mystique’s death and Beast grieving her. I remember seeing one review that said he didn’t care because he never knew they had a thing(seems like he never saw First Class). The distance between First Class and Dark Phoenix is immense when compared to say Infinity War and Endgame. Peter and Gamora are firmly established as a couple in an immediately proceeding entry in the same series. Can we really expect that the average critique could think back nearly a decade to First Class without being a dedicated stalwart of the series? I think not especially given the uneven performance of the series overall. Yeah, but this movie was marketed as the culmination of the series similar to Endgame. It was pretty obvious that this wasn't a standalone story.
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Simon, you rascal. 