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Post by kls on Jun 25, 2019 23:11:35 GMT
My sisters and I have made it known to our father if he isn't civil to our mother he won't be included in any family activity or event. I've told him "If only one of you can be around you know it's Mom we'd pick." Are your parents separated k? They have been for about 16 or 17 years. They never officially divorced.
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Jun 25, 2019 23:14:42 GMT
Are your parents separated k? They have been for about 16 or 17 years. They never officially divorced. I was thinking that they were together and your father would ridicule her when around others. At least she doesn't have to deal with the abuse all the time now.
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Post by Sulla on Jun 26, 2019 0:24:18 GMT
The only time I had to stand up to my dad was when I was 17. I told him I wasn't going to church anymore. He didn't take it well and we argued. Over my mother's objections he took away my car and kicked me out of the house. I stayed with an aunt and uncle for a while. When I couldn't get a ride from friends, I walked to work every day or wherever else I wanted to go until I saved enough money to buy a used car.
After several months he realized I wasn't in league with Lucifer or about to embark on a life of crime. And coercion certainly wasn't working. So I moved back home. At that point he tended to treat me more like an adult. He was always a good father. I think he just had difficulty accepting my desire to make my own decisions. I imagine it's a common issue that many parents at some point have trouble letting go of control.
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Jun 26, 2019 1:09:00 GMT
The only time I had to stand up to my dad was when I was 17. I told him I wasn't going to church anymore. He didn't take it well and we argued. Over my mother's objections he took away my car and kicked me out of the house. I stayed with an aunt and uncle for a while. When I couldn't get a ride from friends, I walked to work every day or wherever else I wanted to go until I saved enough money to buy a used car. After several months he realized I wasn't in league with Lucifer or about to embark on a life of crime. And coercion certainly wasn't working. So I moved back home. At that point he tended to treat me more like an adult. He was always a good father. I think he just had difficulty accepting my desire to make my own decisions. I imagine it's a common issue that many parents at some point have trouble letting go of control. I think that is what "family" means to many parents, to have control and dominance over others that they have created out of an act of f<>king, and then they think they have sole heir and right to ownership of their children's life. It is all boils down to ego notions of self. Forcing religion onto children as well is one of the most corrupting and manipulating things a parent can do to a child as well. I at least was left to make up my own mind in this respect.
Parents more often than not screw up their kids, rather than guide and nurture them in a way that is fitting, appropriate and ideal to give their children a decent head start in life. Most parents are not ideal to be parents, but the wheels keep on spinning.
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Post by Sulla on Jun 26, 2019 2:21:38 GMT
The only time I had to stand up to my dad was when I was 17. I told him I wasn't going to church anymore. He didn't take it well and we argued. Over my mother's objections he took away my car and kicked me out of the house. I stayed with an aunt and uncle for a while. When I couldn't get a ride from friends, I walked to work every day or wherever else I wanted to go until I saved enough money to buy a used car. After several months he realized I wasn't in league with Lucifer or about to embark on a life of crime. And coercion certainly wasn't working. So I moved back home. At that point he tended to treat me more like an adult. He was always a good father. I think he just had difficulty accepting my desire to make my own decisions. I imagine it's a common issue that many parents at some point have trouble letting go of control. I think that is what "family" means to many parents, to have control and dominance over others that they have created out of an act of f<>king, and then they think they have sole heir and right to ownership of their children's life. It is all boils down to ego notions of self. Forcing religion onto children as well is one of the most corrupting and manipulating things a parent can do to a child as well. I at least was left to make up my own mind in this respect.
Parents more often than not screw up their kids, rather than guide and nurture them in a way that is fitting, appropriate and ideal to give their children a decent head start in life. Most parents are not ideal to be parents, but the wheels keep on spinning. After reading so many horror stories of childhood from others, I count myself among the fortunate ones.
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Jun 26, 2019 2:41:27 GMT
I think that is what "family" means to many parents, to have control and dominance over others that they have created out of an act of f<>king, and then they think they have sole heir and right to ownership of their children's life. It is all boils down to ego notions of self. Forcing religion onto children as well is one of the most corrupting and manipulating things a parent can do to a child as well. I at least was left to make up my own mind in this respect.
Parents more often than not screw up their kids, rather than guide and nurture them in a way that is fitting, appropriate and ideal to give their children a decent head start in life. Most parents are not ideal to be parents, but the wheels keep on spinning. After reading so many horror stories of childhood from others, I count myself among the fortunate ones. Despite my own grievances with my folks, I also consider myself one of the lucky ones. They were only human too and molded and conditioned by their own generation\era. Stepping out of the victim 'why me' mold, has been one of the biggest lessons I have had to learn. Nothing that has happened to me, wasn't not meant to happen. I just had to realize that for the most part, my own actions brought upon my own consequences. This is the greatest learning tool.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Jun 26, 2019 3:14:53 GMT
1) It could be better, but it could be far worse. The main problem is that they still don't see me as an adult and I don't know what more I can do to make that happen. Our relationship is stuck in an arrested state of development where I am still a kid in their eyes.
2) A specific recent example is them having problems with someone I dated. Quite frankly, they don't get an opinion in the matter. I'M the one who's going to do the dating, not them. I'd love it if they liked who I was dating, but if they don't "I love you, but too bad!"
Parents who can't see their children as adults do not want to face the fact that they are aging themselves. It is a matter of degrees. It is nice and warm and touching for the parent to want to see their child as still a child, this is sweet and it is nice when there is some of this. However, parents also need to learn to let go. And this can be near impossible for some parents. Ideally it is the parents job to guide their child into becoming a mature, productive and happy adult. But it hardly ever works out that way. Good parenting is to draw a fine line. I personally cannot imagine being a parent. To be, more or less, responsible for a human being for 18 + years seems incredibly daunting. But most parents unload their own baggage onto their hapless child. If the child is able to break the cycle, then more power to him or her. I broke the cycle by not having children My Dad would have loved to have a grandchild, but a grandchild would have been one more person for my mother to manipulate. My mother's brother did the same thing - never married, never had a child, because he could see that he had many of the same tendencies as his father, who was an abusive, controlling drunk. The cycle went on in other siblings, and not in a good way. My husband always told me he thought I would be a great mom, but I wasn't willing to take the chance. So all my nurturing tendencies go towards abandoned baby kittens, and other animals in need. A friend of mine said that "kittens were my bliss", and I tend to agree.
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Post by ck100 on Jun 26, 2019 3:20:15 GMT
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Post by dirtypillows on Jun 26, 2019 3:28:08 GMT
"They mess you up, your Mom and Dad. They may not mean to, but they do. They fill you with the faults they had, and add some extra - just for you." Philip Larkin I've said more than enough on here about my mother. Confrontation gets me nothing but crocodile tears, so we passively/aggressively share barbs back and forth. It will end when she passes away. I hope I have come to terms with that. I've had to confront myself; she trained me well to always be agreeable and compliant, and put everyone else's needs before my own, especially hers. I am still learning how to say "no" to unreasonable expectations and manipulations, from her and others. It's difficult to grow a backbone at my age, and the people around me have gotten used to me saying, "okay, whatever you need/want to do." Somehow, "no" doesn't register. And, yes, the 'cult' of Motherhood is Sacred has done me no favors. Learning to say "no" to my parents was one of the most difficult hurdles for me to cross. Even if it was over something that might have appeared trivial, it was the control games and them wanting me to be compliant with them. How dare I defy them, they made me and I owe them.....  Did your parents ever use these words? You owe them? Well, I guess that depends on how a person looks at things. If you owe them for life, then that sort of makes them responsible for the bad stuff, too. And who did they do it for? My mom has never been nice to my sister. She was always very loving towards me, sometimes to an uncomfortable degree, but she always had it out for my sister. I think it's a female thing. Women are very, very competitive and my mom wanted to live through my sister, when sister was in high school. I think she was jealous that it was now my sister's turn to date boys and receive attention. The maddening thing is that our dad never stood up for us even when he saw what our mom was doing to us. I have just as many horror stories as Annie does, though mine are a different color. With mom and her son, it was us against the world. I had no say to the matter whether or not I wanted to be a part of this unhealthy arrangement or not. But as I was probably around four when she started getting certain sick notions in her head... If I only go back and spend 48 hours with the teenage and badly used me by folks before they making other follow up decisions about who I was, even what they could two ears, eyes and node could have given them sufficient evidence about who their song, but that would have been too scary.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Jun 26, 2019 3:55:15 GMT
"They mess you up, your Mom and Dad. They may not mean to, but they do. They fill you with the faults they had, and add some extra - just for you." Philip Larkin I've said more than enough on here about my mother. Confrontation gets me nothing but crocodile tears, so we passively/aggressively share barbs back and forth. It will end when she passes away. I hope I have come to terms with that. I've had to confront myself; she trained me well to always be agreeable and compliant, and put everyone else's needs before my own, especially hers. I am still learning how to say "no" to unreasonable expectations and manipulations, from her and others. It's difficult to grow a backbone at my age, and the people around me have gotten used to me saying, "okay, whatever you need/want to do." Somehow, "no" doesn't register. And, yes, the 'cult' of Motherhood is Sacred has done me no favors. Learning to say "no" to my parents was one of the most difficult hurdles for me to cross. Even if it was over something that might have appeared trivial, it was the control games and them wanting me to be compliant with them. How dare I defy them, they made me and I owe them..... They made me... and the true mission of parenting should be raising self-sufficient children that make a positive difference in the world. Too many people make children for the wrong reasons; showing their parents how they can do it better, all of their friends are having children, society programs us to reproduce... So few do it for the right reasons. And the children are the ones who suffer. Which then trickles down to the next generation. Edit: there is this great quote, by Keanu Reeves' character in "Parenthood" (1989)...
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Post by poelzig on Jun 26, 2019 7:28:39 GMT
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Jun 26, 2019 9:10:41 GMT
Learning to say "no" to my parents was one of the most difficult hurdles for me to cross. Even if it was over something that might have appeared trivial, it was the control games and them wanting me to be compliant with them. How dare I defy them, they made me and I owe them..... ::eyes:: Did your parents ever use these words? You owe them? Well, I guess that depends on how a person looks at things. If you owe them for life, then that sort of makes them responsible for the bad stuff, too. And who did they do it for? My mom has never been nice to my sister. She was always very loving towards me, sometimes to an uncomfortable degree, but she always had it out for my sister. I think it's a female thing. Women are very, very competitive and my mom wanted to live through my sister, when sister was in high school. I think she was jealous that it was now my sister's turn to date boys and receive attention. The maddening thing is that our dad never stood up for us even when he saw what our mom was doing to us. I have just as many horror stories as Annie does, though mine are a different color. With mom and her son, it was us against the world. I had no say to the matter whether or not I wanted to be a part of this unhealthy arrangement or not. But as I was probably around four when she started getting certain sick notions in her head... If I only go back and spend 48 hours with the teenage and badly used me by folks before they making other follow up decisions about who I was, even what they could two ears, eyes and node could have given them sufficient evidence about who their song, but that would have been too scary. Not that I recall verbatim, but similar things said were implicit. When I was a kid, I used to feel a sense of ownership about what having babies meant and regarding my father and my relationship with him. I thought it was my own ideal\notion, until I got older and realised it was his own ego projection I picked up on. |
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Jun 26, 2019 14:45:57 GMT
I went to talk with my father and pretty much got him out of my life from that point on. Last time I saw him was a few years ago at my brother's graduation ceremony otherwise we had no contact at all for 10 years and it still goes like that. I did what was needed. Wow. I got a similar situation with my biological dad. It's sad. How did that conversation go for you?
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Post by mecano04 on Jun 26, 2019 14:48:54 GMT
I went to talk with my father and pretty much got him out of my life from that point on. Last time I saw him was a few years ago at my brother's graduation ceremony otherwise we had no contact at all for 10 years and it still goes like that. I did what was needed. Wow. I got a similar situation with my biological dad. It's sad. How did that conversation go for you?
He didn't like what was said and it's his right. Still everything was said and done and I'm sleeping well every night since.
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Jun 27, 2019 0:39:52 GMT
Learning to say "no" to my parents was one of the most difficult hurdles for me to cross. Even if it was over something that might have appeared trivial, it was the control games and them wanting me to be compliant with them. How dare I defy them, they made me and I owe them..... They made me... and the true mission of parenting should be raising self-sufficient children that make a positive difference in the world. Too many people make children for the wrong reasons; showing their parents how they can do it better, all of their friends are having children, society programs us to reproduce... So few do it for the right reasons. And the children are the ones who suffer. Which then trickles down to the next generation.Edit: there is this great quote, by Keanu Reeves' character in "Parenthood" (1989)... It is about self-gratification as well. The thought behind the process is corrupted and it is not only about ownership of children, but I find women can have children, because they want to claim dibs on men.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Jun 27, 2019 3:08:21 GMT
They made me... and the true mission of parenting should be raising self-sufficient children that make a positive difference in the world. Too many people make children for the wrong reasons; showing their parents how they can do it better, all of their friends are having children, society programs us to reproduce... So few do it for the right reasons. And the children are the ones who suffer. Which then trickles down to the next generation.Edit: there is this great quote, by Keanu Reeves' character in "Parenthood" (1989)... It is about self-gratification as well. The thought behind the process is corrupted and it is not only about ownership of children, but I find women can have children, because they want to claim dibs on men. There is that aspect - trapping a man. And also pointing to the child and taking credit for things they excel at. And then there is the aspect of producing a human that you think will love you forever, and you will be the center of their world. To quote a friend of mine, "I'd rather have a spotted pup"! (She didn't reproduce, either, LOL). Since I never had the desire to have a child, I find it hard to relate to any reason to have them. I didn't have a wonderful childhood that I wanted to relive with a child of my own, I never wanted to take on the huge responsibility of raising a child for some personal sense of validation, I just never really "got it". Just managing my own life seemed to be a daunting task; an education, a job to pay the bills, all that real-life stuff that my parents never really broached. I think they expected me to live with them forever, and take care of them in their old age. I don't think they saw me as anything but a daughter. I have friends that had a very different experience, and have led very productive, happy lives. I had to fight tooth-and-nail, just to be a separate human being. They were shocked, shocked, I tell you, when I married at age 30. (Actually, I think my Dad was just befuddled by it; my mother was the one who felt betrayed and abandoned.) Up until fairly modern times, people had kids whether they wanted to or not; they didn't have a lot of choice. But now they do, and I wish more people made the choice not to have kids.
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Jun 27, 2019 3:14:02 GMT
It is about self-gratification as well. The thought behind the process is corrupted and it is not only about ownership of children, but I find women can have children, because they want to claim dibs on men. There is that aspect - trapping a man. And also pointing to the child and taking credit for things they excel at. And then there is the aspect of producing a human that you think will love you forever, and you will be the center of their world. To quote a friend of mine, "I'd rather have a spotted pup"! (She didn't reproduce, either, LOL). Since I never had the desire to have a child, I find it hard to relate to any reason to have them. I didn't have a wonderful childhood that I wanted to relive with a child of my own, I never wanted to take on the huge responsibility of raising a child for some personal sense of validation, I just never really "got it". Just managing my own life seemed to be a daunting task; an education, a job to pay the bills, all that real-life stuff that my parents never really broached. I think they expected me to live with them forever, and take care of them in their old age. I don't think they saw me as anything but a daughter. I have friends that had a very different experience, and have led very productive, happy lives. I had to fight tooth-and-nail, just to be a separate human being. They were shocked, shocked, I tell you, when I married at age 30. (Actually, I think my Dad was just befuddled by it; my mother was the one who felt betrayed and abandoned.) Up until fairly modern times, people had kids whether they wanted to or not; they didn't have a lot of choice. But now they do, and I wish more people made the choice not to have kids. The establishment promotes it and most people are just sheep anyway. I just look at my parents, and they just did what they thought they were supposed to do. Very naive really. My father also chose a simpleminded woman, whom he found very easy to manipulate. She then manipulated in the process regarding myself. Not sure how my sister feels about this, but being a female, she may have seen my mother in a different light.
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Post by Harmless elf on Jun 27, 2019 3:26:01 GMT
I'm fourteen and my mother and father are fighting again. Y'know, because she caught him again. Caught him; this time the girl drove by the house to pick him up. And I finally realized, he wasn't just cheating on my mother, he was cheating us. So I told him; I said, "You're bad to us. We don't love you. I'll take care of my mother and my sister. We don't need you any more." And he made like he was gonna hit me, but I didn't budge. And he turned around and he left. He never bothered us again. Well, I took care of my mother and my sister from that day on. That's my best day
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