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Post by xystophoros on Jun 26, 2019 1:50:18 GMT
At the beginning of the season, in a thread about Bruce Harper being overrated, I argued a guy like Gleyber Torres is better and more valuable than Bryce Harper. A surprising number of people bowled about that.
With almost half a season in the books, let’s see what we’ve got:
Gleyber Torres, SS/2B, 22 years old, $605k salary, under team control until 2025
Slash line. 287 BA, .352 OBP, .544 SPG, .896 OPS
19 home runs, 46 RBI, 48 runs
Bryce Harper, 26 years old, OF, $26 million salary/$330 million contract, signed through 2031
Slash line: .251 BA, .365 OBP, .467 SLG, .832 OPS
13 home runs, 54 RBI, 44 runs
Harper earns 43 times as much money as Torres and lags behind him in every major batting stat except OBP. He’s on pace for 27 home runs this year, while Torres is on pace for 40. Batting in the three hole, Harper has 8 more RBI than Torres — who customarily bats 7th or 8th — and 4 fewer runs.
The numbers alone show Torres is a better player, and more valuable to his team, than Harper is. That’s not counting the fact that Torres is an excellent and versatile fielder who played SS for the first three months of the season to cover for the injured Didi Gregorious, and has no problem being slotted back at 2B. Production out of SS/2B is always more valuable than comparable production from OF, since it’s a lot easier to find great offense among outfielders than among the two most difficult infield positions.
Saying Harper is more valuable in terms of putting asses in seats is a fair point. People show up to see players like Harper. But nothing draws a crowd like a great team.
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Jun 26, 2019 1:59:01 GMT
How many homers would Harper have if he played in that Little League park the Yankees play in? 90?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2019 2:52:15 GMT
At the beginning of the season, in a thread about Bruce Harper being overrated, I argued a guy like Gleyber Torres is better and more valuable than Bryce Harper. A surprising number of people bowled about that. With almost half a season in the books, let’s see what we’ve got: Gleyber Torres, SS/2B, 22 years old, $605k salary, under team control until 2025 Slash line. 287 BA, .352 OBP, .544 SPG, .896 OPS 19 home runs, 46 RBI, 48 runs Bryce Harper, 26 years old, OF, $26 million salary/$330 million contract, signed through 2031 Slash line: .251 BA, .365 OBP, .467 SLG, .832 OPS 13 home runs, 54 RBI, 44 runs Harper earns 43 times as much money as Torres and lags behind him in every major batting stat except OBP. He’s on pace for 27 home runs this year, while Torres is on pace for 40. Batting in the three hole, Harper has 8 more RBI than Torres — who customarily bats 7th or 8th — and 4 fewer runs. The numbers alone show Torres is a better player, and more valuable to his team, than Harper is. That’s not counting the fact that Torres is an excellent and versatile fielder who played SS for the first three months of the season to cover for the injured Didi Gregorious, and has no problem being slotted back at 2B. Production out of SS/2B is always more valuable than comparable production from OF, since it’s a lot easier to find great offense among outfielders than among the two most difficult infield positions. Saying Harper is more valuable in terms of putting asses in seats is a fair point. People show up to see players like Harper. But nothing draws a crowd like a great team. The the thread wasn't at the beginning of the season, it was only 3 weeks ago.
The thread wasn't going your way, so you abandoned it and started a new one? How do think this one is going to go?
As I noted three weeks ago and you conveniently ignored, you keep claiming Torres bats 7th or 8th. The hard cold truth is that Torres bats smack dab in the middle of the Yankees lineup. 64% of his plate appearances are in the 4th or 5th spot. 84% of his plate appearances come in the 4th, 5th or 6th spots in the line up.
Torres is not going to be cheap in arbitration. I don't if you've noticed but arbitration numbers are now in high teens and low twenties. If he goes to arbitration, he'll be making about 70% of Harper's salary. If they extend him, he is likely to be making just as much or more per year.
Harper is one of the best hitters in the game with runners on base. A very strong cause can be made for Harper being the best in the league in driving those runners home. Torres is no where close to that level. Torres is among the very worst middle of the order hitters in driving in runs.
And you can pretend all you want about how great Torres is hitting but lets have a moment of honesty here and acknowledge the elephant in the room that is the Baltimore Orioles.
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Post by Winston Wolfe on Jun 26, 2019 6:52:50 GMT
That's a clown statement, bro.
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Post by xystophoros on Jun 26, 2019 10:24:19 GMT
At the beginning of the season, in a thread about Bruce Harper being overrated, I argued a guy like Gleyber Torres is better and more valuable than Bryce Harper. A surprising number of people bowled about that. With almost half a season in the books, let’s see what we’ve got: Gleyber Torres, SS/2B, 22 years old, $605k salary, under team control until 2025 Slash line. 287 BA, .352 OBP, .544 SPG, .896 OPS 19 home runs, 46 RBI, 48 runs Bryce Harper, 26 years old, OF, $26 million salary/$330 million contract, signed through 2031 Slash line: .251 BA, .365 OBP, .467 SLG, .832 OPS 13 home runs, 54 RBI, 44 runs Harper earns 43 times as much money as Torres and lags behind him in every major batting stat except OBP. He’s on pace for 27 home runs this year, while Torres is on pace for 40. Batting in the three hole, Harper has 8 more RBI than Torres — who customarily bats 7th or 8th — and 4 fewer runs. The numbers alone show Torres is a better player, and more valuable to his team, than Harper is. That’s not counting the fact that Torres is an excellent and versatile fielder who played SS for the first three months of the season to cover for the injured Didi Gregorious, and has no problem being slotted back at 2B. Production out of SS/2B is always more valuable than comparable production from OF, since it’s a lot easier to find great offense among outfielders than among the two most difficult infield positions. Saying Harper is more valuable in terms of putting asses in seats is a fair point. People show up to see players like Harper. But nothing draws a crowd like a great team. The the thread wasn't at the beginning of the season, it was only 3 weeks ago.
The thread wasn't going your way, so you abandoned it and started a new one? How do think this one is going to go?
As I noted three weeks ago and you conveniently ignored, you keep claiming Torres bats 7th or 8th. The hard cold truth is that Torres bats smack dab in the middle of the Yankees lineup. 64% of his plate appearances are in the 4th or 5th spot. 84% of his plate appearances come in the 4th, 5th or 6th spots in the line up.
Torres is not going to be cheap in arbitration. I don't if you've noticed but arbitration numbers are now in high teens and low twenties. If he goes to arbitration, he'll be making about 70% of Harper's salary. If they extend him, he is likely to be making just as much or more per year.
Harper is one of the best hitters in the game with runners on base. A very strong cause can be made for Harper being the best in the league in driving those runners home. Torres is no where close to that level. Torres is among the very worst middle of the order hitters in driving in runs.
And you can pretend all you want about how great Torres is hitting but lets have a moment of honesty here and acknowledge the elephant in the room that is the Baltimore Orioles.
You can't argue with numbers, so you rely on saying "Torres is going to be expensive in the future," and "He bats in the middle of the lineup sometimes."
No shit Torres is going to make more money in the future. That's like saying the sun will rise tomorrow.
Even your claim about batting order is disingenuous, since the only reason Torres got those ABs in those slots was because of the absurd amount of injuries the Yankees have dealt with. Three months of moving up in the order because he was playing on a team with minor league replacement guys. With Judge, Stanton, Hicks and Didi back, Torres batted eighth last night. Last season the bottom of the order was his customary position, and now he's returned to it.
The fact remains that Torres is better than Harper by every hitting metric except one, and he plays for 1/43rd Harper's salary. The fact remains that if you were playing in a fantasy league with a nice cash award, you'd pick Torres over Harper every time.
Now you may be accustomed to swinging from Harper's nutsack, but the plain truth is that no GM in the league would take Harper over Torres if you removed their names and the decision had to be made on ability alone. The only thing Harper has going for him is "star power," which is largely the result of years of sports columnists hyping the shit out of him like the second coming of Joe Dimaggio, even while Harper's meager accomplishments, such as they are, have been dwarfed by that other young-starting, far-less-heralded player, Mike Trout.
Torres isn't even the point. Pick Soto or Acuna, or any other up-and-coming guy. The point is that Harper is an overrated, overpaid diva.
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Post by FrankSobotka1514 on Jun 26, 2019 11:35:50 GMT
DC-Fan, is that you? Is Harper your new Tom Brady? Is this your new DC vs. Marvel? You can’t fool us, DC.
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