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Post by thisguy4000 on Jul 5, 2019 23:24:55 GMT
As much as I would’ve been interested in seeing Zack Snyder’s story play out, at this point, I think it’s for the best that they are supposedly done with the shared universe idea. Not only did it obviously not work out for them, but they were always facing an uphill battle anyway. The simple truth of the matter is that the MCU is what kickstarted the shared universe craze of the 2010s (before DC-Fan says anything, I’m aware that we technically got a shared universe with that old Supergirl movie, but that film was a failure), and pretty much every other attempt to create a shared universe has had less than stellar results.
Beyond DC, you had Sony trying to do a shared Spider-Man universe, which ended up underperforming and forced the company to make a deal with Marvel. Then there’s the Dark Universe nonsense that Universal tried to get off the ground, which failed after a single movie. Then there’s the MonsterVerse, which comprises the Godzilla and King Kong movie by Legendary Pictures. Surprisingly, this universe seemed like it might had a chance of doing pretty well in its own right, but then KotM came around to less than stellar reviews and disappointing box office numbers. The only shared universe I can think of that I guess you can really consider to be a consistently successful venture has the Conjuring Universe, and that’s just a series of low budget horror movies about ghosts and killer dolls.
What I’m getting at here is that no matter what WB and DC would’ve done with their shared universe, it was never going to match the success of the MCU for the simple reason that Marvel stole their thunder. They were the ones who made headlines with The Avengers, which was a massively successful crossover film that inspired a bunch of other studios to try and follow in their footsteps. Then they upped the ante with Infinity War and Endgame, which culminated in EG experiencing a record shattering run. No matter how ambitious Snyder’s plans with Darkseid and Knightmare Earth may have been, The undeniable fact is that because Marvel did it first, which means that the novelty would’ve gone by that point. Even if Snyder hadn’t been such a controversial director, I don’t think anyone could’ve pulled off a shared DC universe that would’ve been forced to follow in the footsteps of Marvel. The MCU was a lightning in a bottle scenario. I don’t think there’s anyway of topping that.
As as much as I was initially skeptical about the idea of a Joker standalone origin film, at this point, if it means doing something that Marvel wouldn’t even consider doing, I say go for it. Give us weird and experimental films. Give us down to Earth movies with Billy Batson and his family. Give us an R-rated Suicide Squad movie (preferably without Harley Quinn). Hell, if they can pull it off, I say give us horror movies like that Trench film that’s in development.
Well, with that long monologue out of the way, does anyone else have any thoughts on the matter?
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Post by politicidal on Jul 6, 2019 0:30:25 GMT
I'd still like them to try it again but later down the line once they settle into something more their speed. I think with stuff like BVS and JL, they thought the simple fact these characters were all together was more than enough with or without Snyder's controversial vision. And clearly that was a gross miscalculation.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Jul 6, 2019 19:40:23 GMT
OF COURSE they need to continue trying to create their own shared universe!
How can we ever have truly great Justice League movies? How else can we have truly great crossover type movies based on DC's awesome stories like Crisis on Infinite Earths, Zero Hour, Blackest Night, Identity Crisis, Infinite Crisis, Flashpoint, Dark Knights Metal?
These things NEED to happen! And within my lifetime! I'm getting old, dammit! Don't they understand that! There's NO time to waste. WTF?!?!?
The issue before was that they handed everything over to one man, Snyder. Now that he's out, they can try again. I don't see the problem really! They're working from a place of fear, rather than realizing that they have a stable of characters that are just as great, if not greater than MCU (imo)! They're being stupid.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Jul 6, 2019 19:55:04 GMT
What I’m getting at here is that no matter what WB and DC would’ve done with their shared universe, it was never going to match the success of the MCU for the simple reason that Marvel stole their thunder. This is true. Marvel got there first. They had faith that a shared universe could work.
However, DC didn't need to be quite as successful as MCU in order to be successful. 2nd place is a very good neighborhood. If your movie makes 1 billion, and mine only makes 900 million... what difference does it make? I'd be more than fine with that.
Also, the opening weekend numbers for BvS were outstanding. The audience was there! They were ready! If that movie had been as good as people had hoped we definitely would have had another billionaire.
The take for Suicide Squad was good too (Whether or not you like the movie). The Take for Wonder Woman was good. The take for Aquaman was good. This is all still workable material. The goods are there, the diamonds just need to be polished.
It can still happen...
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Post by thisguy4000 on Jul 6, 2019 20:00:01 GMT
What I’m getting at here is that no matter what WB and DC would’ve done with their shared universe, it was never going to match the success of the MCU for the simple reason that Marvel stole their thunder. This is true. Marvel got there first. They had faith that a shared universe could work.
However, DC didn't need to be quite as successful as MCU in order to be successful. 2nd place is a very good neighborhood. If your movie makes 1 billion, and mine only makes 900 million... what difference does it make? I'd be more than fine with that.
Also, the opening weekend numbers for BvS were outstanding. The audience was there! They were ready! If that movie had been as good as people had hoped we definitely would have had another billionaire.
The take for Suicide Squad was good too (Whether or not you like the movie). The Take for Wonder Woman was good. The take for Aquaman was good. This is all still workable material. The goods are there, the diamonds just need to be polished.
It can still happen...
The opening weekend for BvS seemed pretty underwhelming to me. It barely opened to more than the Chris Nolan Batman movies, despite having 3D tickets and Thursday night previews. Sure, the movie had strong Friday numbers, but as far as I’m aware, that was partially because of Good Friday, and it quickly dropped like a rock over the next couple of days.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Jul 6, 2019 20:28:48 GMT
This is true. Marvel got there first. They had faith that a shared universe could work.
However, DC didn't need to be quite as successful as MCU in order to be successful. 2nd place is a very good neighborhood. If your movie makes 1 billion, and mine only makes 900 million... what difference does it make? I'd be more than fine with that.
Also, the opening weekend numbers for BvS were outstanding. The audience was there! They were ready! If that movie had been as good as people had hoped we definitely would have had another billionaire.
The take for Suicide Squad was good too (Whether or not you like the movie). The Take for Wonder Woman was good. The take for Aquaman was good. This is all still workable material. The goods are there, the diamonds just need to be polished.
It can still happen...
The opening weekend for BvS seemed pretty underwhelming to me. It barely opened to more than the Chris Nolan Batman movies, despite having 3D tickets and Thursday night previews. Sure, the movie had strong Friday numbers, but as far as I’m aware, that was partially because of Good Friday, and it quickly dropped like a rock over the next couple of days. They may not have been Endgame sized (what is?), but they were solid blockbuster numbers...
BvS opening weekend: $166,007,347 total, $39,134 per 4,242 screens
...as compared to its nearest competition, which was...
Civil War opening weekend: $179,139,142, $42,390 per 4,226 screens
Close numbers. So...
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Post by politicidal on Jul 7, 2019 0:48:49 GMT
What I’m getting at here is that no matter what WB and DC would’ve done with their shared universe, it was never going to match the success of the MCU for the simple reason that Marvel stole their thunder. This is true. Marvel got there first. They had faith that a shared universe could work.
However, DC didn't need to be quite as successful as MCU in order to be successful. 2nd place is a very good neighborhood. If your movie makes 1 billion, and mine only makes 900 million... what difference does it make? I'd be more than fine with that.
Also, the opening weekend numbers for BvS were outstanding. The audience was there! They were ready! If that movie had been as good as people had hoped we definitely would have had another billionaire.
The take for Suicide Squad was good too (Whether or not you like the movie). The Take for Wonder Woman was good. The take for Aquaman was good. This is all still workable material. The goods are there, the diamonds just need to be polished.
It can still happen...
That and Shazam was a major critical success (while admittedly just a moderate financial success-even though it grossed 3.5x its budget but whatever. I digress) which is key for the series to continue further.
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Post by jakesully on Jul 7, 2019 16:21:44 GMT
I approve! For example, I do NOT want to see Batman side by side on the screen with Superman or anyone else. I love it when Batman is working alone solving crimes.
Have each of the main DC characters have their own separate universes. It will work just fine.
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Post by politicidal on Jul 7, 2019 22:40:32 GMT
I approve! For example, I do NOT want to see Batman side by side on the screen with Superman or anyone else. I love it when Batman is working alone solving crimes. Have each of the main DC characters have their own separate universes. It will work just fine. I've seen that before already. I'd like it if he did interact with Superman (on friendlier terms).
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Jul 8, 2019 4:12:54 GMT
Disapprove. Snyder was one half of the problem, and rushing it was the second. But there's no reason a shared universe in and of itself can't work. I actually prefer the DC heroes together more than Marvel. When I'm watching Spider-Man or X-Men, I could give a fuck what Nick Fury or Iron Man are doing. I think a lot of those characters actually work better individually, it's just that the MCU ended up being more competent than the DCEU. But you look at something like the Justice League cartoon, and they're awesome together.
As much as Shyder shat on Batman and Superman, I dug all of the references to them in Shazam. I was pretty disappointed they couldn't bring in Cavill at the end.
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Post by _ on Jul 8, 2019 4:45:56 GMT
don't care
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Post by thisguy4000 on Jul 8, 2019 4:53:53 GMT
But you look at something like the Justice League cartoon, and they're awesome together. I personally can’t get past what that cartoon did to Wonder Woman. She was too much of a hothead there.
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 8, 2019 16:18:02 GMT
Shared universes are (I believe) the future of cinema and Hollywood. Could you imagine how awesome it would have been for Rambo and Dutch to have teamed up and formed Contra? Or for Conan to have met He-Man? Or for Mr. and Mrs. Smith to have gone up against the Joneses?
Ok, so maybe we're a bit far from that happening yet. But the shared universe concept that the MCU started is definitely a step in the right direction. A huge step in the right direction. DC already had a foot in that pond, they just needed to learn how to swim in it. By declaring that they're now staying away from shared universe is a big step backwards for them. They're missing out on a huge opportunity here.
The shared universe concept wasn't the problem, it was because they didn't care about the characters (or the story) and only cared about making money.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Jul 8, 2019 16:56:04 GMT
If shared universes are the future of cinema, that doesn’t speak well to the fate of cinema, given that every attempt to build one outside of the MCU has more or less failed.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jul 8, 2019 17:25:18 GMT
If shared universes are the future of cinema, that doesn’t speak well to the fate of cinema, given that every attempt to build one outside of the MCU has more or less failed. It's a good thing that they are not. As always, good ideas are.
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 8, 2019 18:23:11 GMT
If shared universes are the future of cinema, that doesn’t speak well to the fate of cinema, given that every attempt to build one outside of the MCU has more or less failed. That's because all of them made only half-assed attempts and gave up way too easily. I mean, Universal made one movie. ONE. How was that ever going to be a successful shared universe? DC put a bit more effort but then gave up just because of some less-than-stellar results. What did they expect, instant overwhelming success? It's not like the first few MCU movies were immediate billion dollar hits with ridiculously high ratings either. IM, TIH, Thor and CAFTA weren't quite that successful. Could you imagine if the MCU gave up after TIH because it didn't perform as expected? The MCU's shared universe worked because they had 1. A plan and 2. The balls to push through with their plan despite a few roadblocks. The others don't succeed because 1. They don't have a plan and 2. they tuck tail and run the moment some difficulties arise.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Jul 8, 2019 18:30:12 GMT
If shared universes are the future of cinema, that doesn’t speak well to the fate of cinema, given that every attempt to build one outside of the MCU has more or less failed. That's because all of them made only half-assed attempts and gave up way too easily. I mean, Universal made one movie. ONE. How was that ever going to be a successful shared universe? DC put a bit more effort but then gave up just because of some less-than-stellar results. What did they expect, instant overwhelming success? It's not like the first few MCU movies were immediate billion dollar hits with ridiculously high ratings either. IM, TIH, Thor and CAFTA weren't quite that successful. Could you imagine if the MCU gave up after TIH because it didn't perform as expected? The MCU's shared universe worked because they had 1. A plan and 2. The balls to push through with their plan despite a few roadblocks. The others don't succeed because 1. They don't have a plan and 2. they tuck tail and run the moment some difficulties arise. IM was pretty successful. It made $300 million domestically, and had the second best OW for a non-sequel after the Sam Raimi Spider-Man film. It did a lot better than anyone was expecting it to. You are right about TIH not doing very well, but the success of IM was enough to make up for it.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jul 8, 2019 18:31:18 GMT
every attempt to build one outside of the MCU has more or less failed. No, they haven't. The Star Trek shared universe existed long before MCU and consists of a dozen feature-length movies as well as a half-dozen TV shows.
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Post by _ on Jul 8, 2019 18:38:07 GMT
every attempt to build one outside of the MCU has more or less failed. No, they haven't. The Star Trek shared universe existed long before MCU and consists of a dozen feature-length movies as well as a half-dozen TV shows. 
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 8, 2019 18:40:08 GMT
That's because all of them made only half-assed attempts and gave up way too easily. I mean, Universal made one movie. ONE. How was that ever going to be a successful shared universe? DC put a bit more effort but then gave up just because of some less-than-stellar results. What did they expect, instant overwhelming success? It's not like the first few MCU movies were immediate billion dollar hits with ridiculously high ratings either. IM, TIH, Thor and CAFTA weren't quite that successful. Could you imagine if the MCU gave up after TIH because it didn't perform as expected? The MCU's shared universe worked because they had 1. A plan and 2. The balls to push through with their plan despite a few roadblocks. The others don't succeed because 1. They don't have a plan and 2. they tuck tail and run the moment some difficulties arise. IM was pretty successful. It made $300 million domestically, and had the second best OW for a non-sequel after the Sam Raimi Spider-Man film. It did a lot better than anyone was expecting it to. You are right about TIH not doing very well, but the success of IM was enough to make up for it. It was decently successful, but not so successful that you'd think "OMG! That was so successful that it's a clear sign we can make a shared universe work!". Pretty much all the DCEU movies earned more money than it did, yet DC still felt they were failing. And other than IM2, all the phase 1 MCU movies prior to Avengers earned less than IM. Other studios would have probably given up by the time CATFA numbers came in. But the MCU never gave up and stuck to their plan. That's what's missing with these other studios - commitment to their shared universe. I'm hoping the Monsters universe holds up.
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