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Post by Power Ranger on Jul 12, 2019 20:00:16 GMT
I saw that. Well Michael Winner was never well received by critics so you surely aren’t alone. In fact many thought he was a hack. I like his work myself in films like DW and his two westerns, Chato’s Land and Lawman. I like his work but just accept that the majority don’t. That is kind of my opinion of him as a director. I hate The Mechanic for example, but not because of the writing. I know what you mean. I think his strongest directing was probably in his Westerns. |
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Post by nostromo87 on Jul 12, 2019 20:10:05 GMT
Don't think most people even consider this debatable. I don’t think that popular opinion is worth much anyway. I like both series. I don’t know how someone could think there is such a disparity in quality. The DW series embraced a cartoonishness from the first sequel, but DH did so as well. It was rather absurd the adventures that a San Fran cop found himself in. If someone thinks the DH series is just of a higher quality, than fine, but it’s not like it wasn’t much less ridiculous than DW, if that’s the issue. I think you answered your own question. Clint Eastwood's appeal IS sky high. Neither movie is very elegant in any way and largely depends on its lead. Bronson doesnt have that charisma that Eastwood has, and its really evident. And neither are great actors, but at least Eastwood can portra...guy--a normal person, or even a cop, which Bronson cannot. But my opinion of Bronson isn't very high to begin with.
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Post by dirtypillows on Jul 12, 2019 20:12:11 GMT
I don’t think that popular opinion is worth much anyway. I like both series. I don’t know how someone could think there is such a disparity in quality. The DW series embraced a cartoonishness from the first sequel, but DH did so as well. It was rather absurd the adventures that a San Fran cop found himself in. If someone thinks the DH series is just of a higher quality, than fine, but it’s not like it wasn’t much less ridiculous than DW, if that’s the issue. I think you answered your own question. Clint Eastwood's appeal IS sky high. Neither movie is very elegant in any way and largely depends on its lead. Bronson doesnt have that charisma that Eastwood has, and its really evident. And neither are great actors, but at least Eastwood can portra...guy--a normal person, or even a cop, which Bronson cannot. But my opinion of Bronson isn't very high to begin with. Charles Bronson has this combination of being totally masculine, yet vulnerable at the same time. I feel like I want to protect him. Clint Eastwood does not have that.
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Post by Prime etc. on Jul 12, 2019 20:13:39 GMT
Well I like Bronson. When they did the "clean up public lands" PSAs in the 80s it was Eastwood and Bronson where were telling people to clean up their act or else.
I have to read the books Bronson's Loose and Bronson's Loose Again sometime.
I think he is just totally different from Eastwood and its wrong to compare them. Bronson would have been a bad choice for the Dollars films and Eastwood would have been wrong for Harmonica.
FAREWELL FRIEND, SOMEONE BEHIND THE DOOR, and HARD TIMES are Bronson flicks that play up his limitations/strengths.
And who else could have been the mountain man in DEATH HUNT?
Eastwood would have been terrible for Death Wish.
Funny thing is Bronson was very sensitive about his height and there's a scene in TELEFON where he walks through a hotel lobby and this really short guy walks by him. That was no coincidence.
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Post by Prime etc. on Jul 12, 2019 20:15:55 GMT
Bronson could be funny when he raises his voice too.
"You know what this is for, Warren? It's for JACKING OFF!"
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Post by nostromo87 on Jul 12, 2019 20:19:03 GMT
I think you answered your own question. Clint Eastwood's appeal IS sky high. Neither movie is very elegant in any way and largely depends on its lead. Bronson doesnt have that charisma that Eastwood has, and its really evident. And neither are great actors, but at least Eastwood can portra...guy--a normal person, or even a cop, which Bronson cannot. But my opinion of Bronson isn't very high to begin with. Charles Bronson has this combination of being totally masculine, yet vulnerable at the same time. I feel like I want to protect him. Clint Eastwood does not have that. You're probably right. But maybe then i just dont want that sort of acting (if you can call it that) in my badass revenge movies. I want someone who is either super cool or giving a good acting performance. Mel Gibson in Edge of Darkness is my example for the latter. And obviously someone like Clint Eastwood would be the other.
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Post by dirtypillows on Jul 12, 2019 20:24:56 GMT
Charles Bronson has this combination of being totally masculine, yet vulnerable at the same time. I feel like I want to protect him. Clint Eastwood does not have that. You're probably right. But maybe then i just dont want that sort of acting (if you can call it that) in my badass revenge movies. I want someone who is either super cool or giving a good acting performance. Mel Gibson in Edge of Darkness is my example for the latter. And obviously someone like Clint Eastwood would be the other. No, Charles Bronson was never an actor. He was just himself. And he could be quite remote. And people either liked him or they did not. But you could tell he would lay down and die for a loved one, especially his wife, Jill Ireland.
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Post by dirtypillows on Jul 12, 2019 20:29:30 GMT
Charles Bronson has this combination of being totally masculine, yet vulnerable at the same time. I feel like I want to protect him. Clint Eastwood does not have that. You're probably right. But maybe then i just dont want that sort of acting (if you can call it that) in my badass revenge movies. I want someone who is either super cool or giving a good acting performance. Mel Gibson in Edge of Darkness is my example for the latter. And obviously someone like Clint Eastwood would be the other. I get what you are saying. And I do like Clint Eastwood quite a bit. My favorite demonstration of male flash is without a doubt Jack Nicholson as Randall Patrick MacMurphy in "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest". It's the only movie where I actually leaped out of my seat in edgy anticipation. I wanted him to kill the bitch nurse... My second favorite "man" performance is Rutger Hauer in "Turkish Delight"... Wow. My third favorite is Christopher Walken in "The Deer Hunter". Who does not want to just hold him? He is a heartbreaker. But I get digress...
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Post by nostromo87 on Jul 12, 2019 20:35:20 GMT
You're probably right. But maybe then i just dont want that sort of acting (if you can call it that) in my badass revenge movies. I want someone who is either super cool or giving a good acting performance. Mel Gibson in Edge of Darkness is my example for the latter. And obviously someone like Clint Eastwood would be the other. I get what you are saying. And I do like Clint Eastwood quite a bit. My favorite demonstration of male flash is without a doubt Jack Nicholson as Randall Patrick MacMurphy in "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest". It's the only movie where I actually leaped out of my seat in edgy anticipation. I wanted him to kill the bitch nurse... My second favorite "man" performance is Rutger Hauer in "Turkish Delight"... Wow. But I get digress... Let's not forget to mention Louise Fletcher, who, if not for her great performance as the bitch nurse, is the one responsible for Jacks great acting.
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Post by dirtypillows on Jul 12, 2019 20:39:05 GMT
I get what you are saying. And I do like Clint Eastwood quite a bit. My favorite demonstration of male flash is without a doubt Jack Nicholson as Randall Patrick MacMurphy in "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest". It's the only movie where I actually leaped out of my seat in edgy anticipation. I wanted him to kill the bitch nurse... My second favorite "man" performance is Rutger Hauer in "Turkish Delight"... Wow. But I get digress... Let's not forget to mention Louise Fletcher, who if not for her great performance as the bitch nurse, we wouldnt be talking about Jack in that scene. Oh, Louise Fletcher was stunningly good. Yes, there would have been no ooomph if it had been anybody else playing nurse. I really think they got the two perfect people for these roles. And she seems so sweet and mild-mannered in real life. Oh, wow, she nailed a certain type of female. I can't even be around this type of person. They are maddening.
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Post by Power Ranger on Jul 12, 2019 20:44:01 GMT
You're probably right. But maybe then i just dont want that sort of acting (if you can call it that) in my badass revenge movies. I want someone who is either super cool or giving a good acting performance. Mel Gibson in Edge of Darkness is my example for the latter. And obviously someone like Clint Eastwood would be the other. No, Charles Bronson was never an actor. He was just himself. And he could be quite remote. And people either liked him or they did not. But you could tell he would lay down and die for a loved one, especially his wife, Jill Ireland. He showed a high degree of acting skill in a telemovie named ‘Act of Vengeance’. I think he wanted to express himself in this way but was always cast in laconic roles. I don’t think he was a bad actor, I think he was capable, but he simply had a presence which he could rely on. |
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Post by dirtypillows on Jul 12, 2019 21:13:42 GMT
No, Charles Bronson was never an actor. He was just himself. And he could be quite remote. And people either liked him or they did not. But you could tell he would lay down and die for a loved one, especially his wife, Jill Ireland. He showed a high degree of acting skill in a telemovie named ‘Act of Vengeance’. I think he wanted to express himself in this way but was always cast in laconic roles. I don’t think he was a bad actor, I think he was capable, but he simply had a presence which he could rely on. That's a fair estimation. I just like him. Always have. He was so damn cute when he was a yung 'un!
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Post by vegalyra on Jul 12, 2019 21:25:13 GMT
Some good points made here for both films. I chose Dirty Harry, but I actually like Magnum Force better as a film. Deathwish is an excellent film, but Eastwood just embodies the role of Callahan.
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Post by lostinlimbo on Jul 13, 2019 7:35:13 GMT
I like both series, but I give Dirty Harry the edge.
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Post by mslo79 on Jul 13, 2019 8:19:01 GMT
Dirty Harry (series) ; hands down.I would still hand it to Dirty Harry as I like all five of those where as at this point in time I don't like a single Death Wish movie. p.s. in terns of Charles Bronson in general my favorite movies of his are... Once Upon a Time in the West (1968)(10/10)/Hard Times (1975)(7/10). In terms of their screen presence I would say they both hold their own but it's hard for me to side with Bronson at this point because the Dirty Harry movies are much better overall as even the worst Dirty Harry movies top all of the Death Wish movies (even though at one point in the past that would not have been true for me as I liked some of the Death Wish movies over some of the Dirty Harry movies). but putting aside these movies (i.e. Dirty Harry series/Death Wish series)... I think both are solid in the right movie but overall Eastwood takes the edge for me due to a higher volume of movies that stand out as Eastwood has 6 movies for me and Bronson only has 2. plus, even those aside... looking at movies I mildly like I am sure that favors Eastwood to. but I suspect my opinion ain't much different from the wide public in that Eastwood is a bigger name than Charles Bronson overall. drystyxI think Dirty Harry series easily tops Death Wish series overall. sure, the Dirty Harry series declined in quality after the first two but I still mildly like all of those where as at this point Death Wish series I no longer like. I rank the Dirty Harry series like this... 1.Dirty Harry (1971) - 7.5-8/10 (within my Top 81 movies) -.Magnum Force (1973) 3.The Dead Pool (1988) - 6/10 (a mild Thumbs Up) 4.Sudden Impact (1983) 5.The Enforcer (1976) as for Death Wish... none score above a 5/10 (Thumbs Down) for me at this point in time. but I did think the first movie or so was solid years ago (like the first movie for example... peaked at 7.5-8/10). but I will say while the first two Dirty Harry movies for me are currently tied in a re-watch of the series in May 2019 that I had the 2nd movie a little above the 1st movie but now, I call them pretty much tied, but I won't be surprised if in the future the 1st movie takes the slight edge.
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Post by ant-mac on Jul 13, 2019 8:19:41 GMT
I enjoy both film series, but I have to agree with the majority in this case.
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Post by FridayOnElmStreet on Jul 13, 2019 9:00:32 GMT
Death Wish
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Post by biker1 on Jul 13, 2019 9:23:43 GMT
Dirty Harry
Harry went downhill, yes, but at least it was up the hill in the first place.
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Post by Marv on Jul 13, 2019 11:55:35 GMT
I prefer Dirty Harry.
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Post by darksidebeadle on Jul 13, 2019 12:36:27 GMT
Funnily I rank each series in the same order
First film
Second film
Fifth film
Fourth film
Third film
Dirty Harry is the much better series overall though
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