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Post by clusium on Jul 27, 2019 17:41:34 GMT
That's what I feel - if you couldn't get 15/15 on that score, you simply don't care about religion one way or the other. Which would make it more likely that you'd be a member of the same religion as your family. There's never been a reason to care about all religions. Caring about all religions & knowing about them, are 2 different things.
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Post by Karl Aksel on Jul 27, 2019 17:41:34 GMT
That's what I feel - if you couldn't get 15/15 on that score, you simply don't care about religion one way or the other. Which would make it more likely that you'd be a member of the same religion as your family. There's never been a reason to care about all religions. Why on earth would you say that? If you care about one, then you have every reason to care about all.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jul 27, 2019 17:48:54 GMT
There's never been a reason to care about all religions. Caring about all religions & knowing about them, are 2 different things. Well, knowing about them is simply a part of being in a diversified society. You care about them to the extent that you want their rights protect to the same extent as yours. That doesn't mean I need to know the various parts of Buddhism unless Buddhists recommend it to me. Basically, interest in a religion only goes so far as the religion itself promotes it if one is already happy with the religion they've got...& that is especially if there are variations within that religion. Every major religion has denominations that add tenets to the original doctrine.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jul 27, 2019 17:53:04 GMT
There's never been a reason to care about all religions. Why on earth would you say that? If you care about one, then you have every reason to care about all. Why? So when I say there's no reason to care, I'm saying I don;t need to know any particular religion in detail in order to reject it. The reason I did well on the test has more to do with incidental knowledge. I would never reject learning about a religion, but neither would I work hard to seek it out. I will clarify and say I do care about protection for all/most religions.
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Post by clusium on Jul 27, 2019 17:57:58 GMT
Caring about all religions & knowing about them, are 2 different things. Well, knowing about them is simply a part of being in a diversified society. You care about them to the extent that you want their rights protect to the same extent as yours. That doesn't mean I need to know the various parts of Buddhism unless Buddhists recommend it to me. Basically, interest in a religion only goes so far as the religion itself promotes it if one is already happy with the religion they've got...& that is especially if there are variations within that religion. Every major religion has denominations that add tenets to the original doctrine. Very true that, regarding religious denominations. Yes, knowing about other religions may lead to caring about them also. However, it is also a very useful tool to know about the various religions in the world. As the old ancient quote says "Knowledge is Power," therefore, it very useful for Christians to know about other religions, as well as their own.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jul 27, 2019 18:06:23 GMT
Well, knowing about them is simply a part of being in a diversified society. You care about them to the extent that you want their rights protect to the same extent as yours. That doesn't mean I need to know the various parts of Buddhism unless Buddhists recommend it to me. Basically, interest in a religion only goes so far as the religion itself promotes it if one is already happy with the religion they've got...& that is especially if there are variations within that religion. Every major religion has denominations that add tenets to the original doctrine. Very true that, regarding religious denominations. Yes, knowing about other religions may lead to caring about them also. However, it is also a very useful tool to know about the various religions in the world. As the old ancient quote says "Knowledge is Power," therefore, it very useful for Christians to know about other religions, as well as their own. Knowledge is power, but that doesn't mean you must be knowledgeable about everything. You start with what's important. If you start with what you thin is a true religion, then why study for one that isn't that true religion? So of one is a devout Catholic, of what benefit is it to simply learn about Judaism or Islam? To be clear, those religions would should perhaps feel an obligation of some kind to explain what makes their religion true if they are interested in as many people as possible joining in that religion. But if they don't, I've got better things to do than look it up in detail when there's not much issue with Christianity.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Jul 27, 2019 18:14:12 GMT
There's never been a reason to care about all religions. Why on earth would you say that? If you care about one, then you have every reason to care about all. 42 minutes ago Karl Aksel said: That's what I feel - if you couldn't get 15/15 on that score, you simply don't care about religion one way or the other. Which would make it more likely that you'd be a member of the same religion as your family.
I think he's one of those. Edit: I got 15/15 correct also. Though I had a bit of an advantage, having studied Asian art during my transition from childhood Christianity to agnostic atheist. One of the few good things about religion is that it has given artists and architects jobs.
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Post by clusium on Jul 27, 2019 18:15:46 GMT
Very true that, regarding religious denominations. Yes, knowing about other religions may lead to caring about them also. However, it is also a very useful tool to know about the various religions in the world. As the old ancient quote says "Knowledge is Power," therefore, it very useful for Christians to know about other religions, as well as their own. Knowledge is power, but that doesn't mean you must be knowledgeable about everything. You start with what's important. If you start with what you thin is a true religion, then why study for one that isn't that true religion? So of one is a devout Catholic, of what benefit is it to simply learn about Judaism or Islam? To be clear, those religions would should perhaps feel an obligation of some kind to explain what makes their religion true if they are interested in as many people as possible joining in that religion. But if they don't, I've got better things to do than look it up in detail when there's not much issue with Christianity. It is better to know about those other religions or even other denominations of one's particular religion, in order to arm one's self, when you are either a)challenging someone, or b)being challenged, regarding on the truths of one's particular religion, or lack of. Christians (or any other particular religious group) who decide that simply because they have the true faith, that they do not need to know about any others, risk making a huge mistake. You never know when you are going to be challenged by someone of a different religious belief (or even by someone who has none), regarding your faith.
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Post by Karl Aksel on Jul 27, 2019 18:16:20 GMT
Why on earth would you say that? If you care about one, then you have every reason to care about all. 42 minutes ago Karl Aksel said: That's what I feel - if you couldn't get 15/15 on that score, you simply don't care about religion one way or the other. Which would make it more likely that you'd be a member of the same religion as your family.
I think he's one of those. I think you had better elaborate on that.
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Post by Karl Aksel on Jul 27, 2019 18:21:44 GMT
Why on earth would you say that? If you care about one, then you have every reason to care about all. Why? So when I say there's no reason to care, I'm saying I don;t need to know any particular religion in detail in order to reject it. That would only be true if you're non-religious. If you are religious, however, you have to know that there are other people out there who are every bit as convinced as you are - but belonging to different religions. So you would have to examine what it is that makes them so convinced, if you are at all interested in having the right belief. That's right, that test was only about the very basics. Which is why I said you'd have to be completely disinterested in religion in order to score anything less than 15/15. I never got an impression to the contrary.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Jul 27, 2019 18:40:59 GMT
42 minutes ago Karl Aksel said: That's what I feel - if you couldn't get 15/15 on that score, you simply don't care about religion one way or the other. Which would make it more likely that you'd be a member of the same religion as your family.
I think he's one of those. I think you had better elaborate on that. Okay, I grew up as 'one of those'. And never, in all of the time that I was a card-carrying Christian, was any other religion even spoken about, except that they were wrong. It took public education in a state college to get me to look at anything else. And it started in Art History, first with the Renaissance, during which I was appalled at some of the paintings of the things Christians did to non-Christians. Then there was Asian art, which covered the religions that generated the art. So I was exposed to all religion's art and the basis for it. My family was all for me studying Christian art. They helped me study for tests, reveling in the fact that I seeing pictures of the Madonna and child, angels, biblical stories. It reinforced their adherence to Christianity, though they were concerned about the emphasis on Catholicism. They were Protestants. But when there were no more classes to take on Christian art, I took the class on Asian art. They no longer helped me study for tests. They were certain that I was backsliding down the slippery path to hell. In a way, they were right - the cruel aspects of some of the Christian art started my doubts, the different attitude of the Asian art (mostly Buddhism and Hinduism) suggested that there might be other ways to live one's life. After looking at them all, I went with the Christopher Hitchens observation that they can't all be right, and the most logical thing was that they were all wrong. It created a rift in my family that has never healed. I am still viewed as a 'lost sheep' at best, under demonic influence at worst.
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Post by Karl Aksel on Jul 27, 2019 18:52:02 GMT
I think you had better elaborate on that. Okay, I grew up as 'one of those'. And never, in all of the time that I was a card-carrying Christian, was any other religion even spoken about, except that they were wrong. It took public education in a state college to get me to look at anything else. And it started in Art History, first with the Renaissance, during which I was appalled at some of the paintings of the things Christians did to non-Christians. Then there was Asian art, which covered the religions that generated the art. So I was exposed to all religion's art and the basis for it. My family was all for me studying Christian art. They helped me study for tests, reveling in the fact that I seeing pictures of the Madonna and child, angels, biblical stories. It reinforced their adherence to Christianity, though they were concerned about the emphasis on Catholicism. They were Protestants. But when there were no more classes to take on Christian art, I took the class on Asian art. They no longer helped me study for tests. They were certain that I was backsliding down the slippery path to hell. In a way, they were right - the cruel aspects of some of the Christian art started my doubts, the different attitude of the Asian art (mostly Buddhism and Hinduism) suggested that there might be other ways to live one's life. After looking at them all, I went with the Christopher Hitchens observation that they can't all be right, and the most logical thing was that they were all wrong. It created a rift in my family that has never healed. I am still viewed as a 'lost sheep' at best, under demonic influence at worst. I still don't see what that has to do with me. I grew up Christian, at first. My mother was never particularly religious, but my father was (and is) - as were his parents. And I was quite religious myself, though my parents never forced religion on me in any way. They went to church each Sunday, but never even asked us kids if we wanted to come. Still, I was quite religious in my early years. But as soon as I learned there were other religions out there, it got me thinking. "A Muslim is just as convinced that he is right, as I am convinced that I am right." The realisation that a feeling of certainty was not itself evidence of veracity, was quite profound. So at around the age of 7 I could no longer see myself as convinced of Christianity, and instead I became pan-religious: I liked to think that all religions were correct somehow, and that Christians went to Christian heaven, Muslims went to Muslim heaven etc. That was a comforting thought for a while, but eventually I owned up to the fact that this was all just wishful thinking. I guess I was about 13 when I saw myself as an atheist. But I never lost the profound interest I had always had for religion, and kept wanting to learn more. I love to discuss religion, but I avoid the subject completely when speaking with my father - the very last thing I want is to shake his faith.
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Post by clusium on Jul 27, 2019 19:11:30 GMT
Okay, I grew up as 'one of those'. And never, in all of the time that I was a card-carrying Christian, was any other religion even spoken about, except that they were wrong. It took public education in a state college to get me to look at anything else. And it started in Art History, first with the Renaissance, during which I was appalled at some of the paintings of the things Christians did to non-Christians. Then there was Asian art, which covered the religions that generated the art. So I was exposed to all religion's art and the basis for it. My family was all for me studying Christian art. They helped me study for tests, reveling in the fact that I seeing pictures of the Madonna and child, angels, biblical stories. It reinforced their adherence to Christianity, though they were concerned about the emphasis on Catholicism. They were Protestants. But when there were no more classes to take on Christian art, I took the class on Asian art. They no longer helped me study for tests. They were certain that I was backsliding down the slippery path to hell. In a way, they were right - the cruel aspects of some of the Christian art started my doubts, the different attitude of the Asian art (mostly Buddhism and Hinduism) suggested that there might be other ways to live one's life. After looking at them all, I went with the Christopher Hitchens observation that they can't all be right, and the most logical thing was that they were all wrong. It created a rift in my family that has never healed. I am still viewed as a 'lost sheep' at best, under demonic influence at worst. I still don't see what that has to do with me. I grew up Christian, at first. My mother was never particularly religious, but my father was (and is) - as were his parents. And I was quite religious myself, though my parents never forced religion on me in any way. They went to church each Sunday, but never even asked us kids if we wanted to come. Still, I was quite religious in my early years. But as soon as I learned there were other religions out there, it got me thinking. "A Muslim is just as convinced that he is right, as I am convinced that I am right." The realisation that a feeling of certainty was not itself evidence of veracity, was quite profound. So at around the age of 7 I could no longer see myself as convinced of Christianity, and instead I became pan-religious: I liked to think that all religions were correct somehow, and that Christians went to Christian heaven, Muslims went to Muslim heaven etc. That was a comforting thought for a while, but eventually I owned up to the fact that this was all just wishful thinking. I guess I was about 13 when I saw myself as an atheist. But I never lost the profound interest I had always had for religion, and kept wanting to learn more. I love to discuss religion, but I avoid the subject completely when speaking with my father - the very last thing I want is to shake his faith. I too, love learning about different world religions. I think it is a very fascinating topic of study. The difference between me & you, of course, is that I remain a devout Christian right down to this very day. Studying different religions & people's commitment to their religions & their particular gods, only strenghtened my Christianity, not weakened it. 
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Jul 27, 2019 19:15:57 GMT
Okay, I grew up as 'one of those'. And never, in all of the time that I was a card-carrying Christian, was any other religion even spoken about, except that they were wrong. It took public education in a state college to get me to look at anything else. And it started in Art History, first with the Renaissance, during which I was appalled at some of the paintings of the things Christians did to non-Christians. Then there was Asian art, which covered the religions that generated the art. So I was exposed to all religion's art and the basis for it. My family was all for me studying Christian art. They helped me study for tests, reveling in the fact that I seeing pictures of the Madonna and child, angels, biblical stories. It reinforced their adherence to Christianity, though they were concerned about the emphasis on Catholicism. They were Protestants. But when there were no more classes to take on Christian art, I took the class on Asian art. They no longer helped me study for tests. They were certain that I was backsliding down the slippery path to hell. In a way, they were right - the cruel aspects of some of the Christian art started my doubts, the different attitude of the Asian art (mostly Buddhism and Hinduism) suggested that there might be other ways to live one's life. After looking at them all, I went with the Christopher Hitchens observation that they can't all be right, and the most logical thing was that they were all wrong. It created a rift in my family that has never healed. I am still viewed as a 'lost sheep' at best, under demonic influence at worst. I still don't see what that has to do with me. I grew up Christian, at first. My mother was never particularly religious, but my father was (and is) - as were his parents. And I was quite religious myself, though my parents never forced religion on me in any way. They went to church each Sunday, but never even asked us kids if we wanted to come. Still, I was quite religious in my early years. But as soon as I learned there were other religions out there, it got me thinking. "A Muslim is just as convinced that he is right, as I am convinced that I am right." The realisation that a feeling of certainty was not itself evidence of veracity, was quite profound. So at around the age of 7 I could no longer see myself as convinced of Christianity, and instead I became pan-religious: I liked to think that all religions were correct somehow, and that Christians went to Christian heaven, Muslims went to Muslim heaven etc. That was a comforting thought for a while, but eventually I owned up to the fact that this was all just wishful thinking. I guess I was about 13 when I saw myself as an atheist. But I never lost the profound interest I had always had for religion, and kept wanting to learn more. I love to discuss religion, but I avoid the subject completely when speaking with my father - the very last thing I want is to shake his faith. Well, Karl, you are one of the exceptions. And I wish I had not let my family know of my atheism, because it gave my father particular anguish, thinking that he would not see me in heaven when he got there. He was in a coma, in the dying process, when one of his Christian buddies told me that Dad had told him that he was afraid to die, knowing that I wasn't saved. So I promptly went in to Dad's room, sat next to his bed and told him that "I had a little talk with Jesus, and wherever you are going, Dad, that's where I will be going, too." He died two days later. It wasn't entirely a lie - Dad and I would be going to the same place, non-existence - but I did lie about the little talk with Jesus. But I loved my father very much, and didn't want him to suffer. Good for you, letting your dad keep his faith unshaken.
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Post by goz on Jul 27, 2019 21:51:08 GMT
Why on earth would you say that? If you care about one, then you have every reason to care about all. Why? So when I say there's no reason to care, I'm saying I don;t need to know any particular religion in detail in order to reject it. The reason I did well on the test has more to do with incidental knowledge. I would never reject learning about a religion, but neither would I work hard to seek it out. I will clarify and say I do care about protection for all/most religions Why?...and who decides which ones and how?
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jul 27, 2019 21:59:48 GMT
Why? So when I say there's no reason to care, I'm saying I don;t need to know any particular religion in detail in order to reject it. The reason I did well on the test has more to do with incidental knowledge. I would never reject learning about a religion, but neither would I work hard to seek it out. I will clarify and say I do care about protection for all/most religionsWhy?...and who decides which ones and how? Religious freedom for all protects mine. It's the whole Golden Rule thing. There's no reason to restrict religion when they cause no harm to people beyond hurt feelings, or in the case of most theophobiacs, simple annoyance.
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Post by goz on Jul 27, 2019 22:06:20 GMT
Why?...and who decides which ones and how? Religious freedom for all protects mine. The why is because there's no reason to restrict religion when they cause no harm to people beyond hurt feelings, or in the case of most theophobiacs, simple annoyance. Why does it need protection? That is patently untrue. In both Christianity and Islam (amongst others) there is real harm (even physical) discrimination and sociological rejection of minority groups. How can you possibly say otherwise? It is unequal, not egalitarian nor democratic to put your own religion above the secular or religioous rights of others. Edit: for another point What if YOUR religion directly contradicts another? ( as it so often does)
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Post by OpiateOfTheMasses on Jul 27, 2019 23:22:18 GMT
I would have thought "True" believers (in whatever religion) should have a good knowledge of all religions. After all, if they are interested in religion, wouldn't they want to ensure they have the correct one? And how would they really, really know that unless they'd looked into the other ones?
Otherwise a cynic might come to the conclusion that many believers are just indoctrinated into a religion from birth and never think to challenge that indoctrination. And that couldn't possibly be the case, could it?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2019 4:15:19 GMT
Evangelical here
15/15
Funny they never asked me though so I have to wonder about those averages.
We cover every bit of this in church.
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Post by goz on Jul 28, 2019 5:50:20 GMT
Evangelical here 15/15 Funny they never asked me though so I have to wonder about those averages. We cover every bit of this in church. What's an evangelical compared to a regular Christian?
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