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Post by dirtypillows on Jul 28, 2019 21:38:21 GMT
You don't know that he actually did anything that bad. I do know that people judge him nevertheless.
Again, there has never been a single accuser who wasn't looking for money, not a single family that had ANY credibility, not a single witness who should be believed because if they're being honest, their asses should've been thrown in prison as co-conspirators, there is NOBODY saying 'he did this' who has any credibility, so how can anybody reasonably say 'okay, EVERYBODY who says he's guilty is lying, but that DOESN'T MEAN anything, he's STILL guilty!'?
Are you responding to me or zos?
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Post by novastar6 on Jul 28, 2019 21:54:04 GMT
Again, there has never been a single accuser who wasn't looking for money, not a single family that had ANY credibility, not a single witness who should be believed because if they're being honest, their asses should've been thrown in prison as co-conspirators, there is NOBODY saying 'he did this' who has any credibility, so how can anybody reasonably say 'okay, EVERYBODY who says he's guilty is lying, but that DOESN'T MEAN anything, he's STILL guilty!'?
Are you responding to me or zos?
I'm responding to you, and agreeing, anybody who believes anything that these people say lack critical thinking skills. It's not good enough to say 'well he's weird and people have SAID he was inappropriate with kids', that's not good enough. If a guy's wife comes up missing and he doesn't call the police to report her missing, that's suspicious but not enough to prove guilt, if he NEVER does anything to try and help the authorities find her, and he keeps changing his story about what happened the day she disappeared, the evidence mounts.
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Post by poelzig on Jul 28, 2019 22:00:24 GMT
I have no time for the victims families who were also complicit in the quest for fame and money and pretty much rented their kids out to the nonce. Have never met anyone who's not a bit of a looney fan boy/girl who doubts his guilt. Odd that.
But you base your belief of his guilt on the WORD of 'families who rented their kids out'. Why would you trust ANYTHING they had to say?
So you admit your favorite probable pedophile and role model MJ rented little boys to sleep in the same bed with him but you don't think he had sex with those children jest because he denied it? Your idol Jackson admitted he continued to have children sleep in the same bed with him even after he had been told to stop by everyone he knew. Why would you trust ANYTHING he has to say.
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Post by dirtypillows on Jul 28, 2019 22:09:52 GMT
But you base your belief of his guilt on the WORD of 'families who rented their kids out'. Why would you trust ANYTHING they had to say?
So you admit your favorite probable pedophile and role model MJ rented little boys to sleep in the same bed with him but you don't think he had sex with those children jest because he denied it? Your idol Jackson admitted he continued to have children sleep in the same bed with him even after he had been told to stop by everyone he knew. Why would you trust ANYTHING he has to say. I know you weren't addressing me, but it really does come down to a "he said, she said" scenario... We all believe what we want to believe. If anyone doubts this, just take a look at religion and faith.
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Jul 28, 2019 22:43:58 GMT
Oh, God! The Salem Witch Trials! One of the most terrifying historical accounts that I know of. Just shuddering awful... Yes, group mob mentality has the potential to be as frightening as being eaten by a Great White. What makes the Salem Witch Trials even more disturbing is that, and please tell me if I am wrong, most of the victims were middle aged women who had never been married. So, they stood out as different and maybe a little scary and they paid a terrible price for it. Unfortunately the Salem women couldn't afford the lifestyle Jackson had and couldn't promote themselves as something special the way he did. Jackson's actions had as much (if not more) to do with how he was and is still perceived. I avoid saying he abused those boys but someone should have been there to control his behaviour. There were, but to protect his behavior and that is what is most disturbing.
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Jul 28, 2019 22:57:32 GMT
I think this point adds an important factor to the whole equation of Jackson's personality. The magnitude of fame and all that accompanies that fame, of the sort people in Jackson's stratosphere breathe along with the air they take in, places them in an environment so radically different from anything those of us outside of it know that I really believe it can't help but seriously distort the personalities of those experiencing it. They live in a sealed bubble totally cut off from the mundane world in its' entirety--the ways of the world outside of that bubble are, or become meaningless to the bubble's inhabitants (Donald Trump is an excellent example of this, and also a good example of why people who have spent their lives dwelling in such an environment are a not a good choice for real-world leadership roles). If you couple this with a pre-existing personality disorder--or even if you accept the theory that the environment produced the disorder--it's not that surprising that you end up with an individual who has only the haziest notions of what constitutes proper boundaries or 'normal' conduct among the hoi polloi who live outside of that exalted sphere, and probably no real comprehension at all of why they should be required to abide by those standards.I wouldn't disagree with any of this. And I am sure Michael Jackson was a likely candidate for having a personality disorder or at least tendencies towards. If he was not a narcissist, then I would have been surprised by that. Masses of people had idolized since he was a young child and not really for a great reason. It was all he knew. And it becomes very difficult to have bad feelings about the guy. And I am all hung up on intentions, anyway. But a special shout-out, amyghost, to your use of the phrase "hoi polloi"... I have only heard that phrase used once. And right now I am unable to recall exactly where. A movie or a tv show and whichever it was, I know I saw it 100 times. So it would have to be a movie that I love. I just can't think of it right now and it's driving me CRAZY! I am almost positive, though, that whoever said it, it was a male character. It's on the edge of my consciousness. But I am confident that I will remember before the day is over! But I always liked the way those words come out sounding and I just now looked up the meaning. I will have to integrate it into my working vocabulary. "hoi polloi..." "hoi polloi"...  I loved reading that in amyghost post and I had to think twice as to what it meant. I had heard it, but wasn't quite sure of the meaning when it clicked with what she meant. I think I may have used it myself, but on rare occasions and not recently. What a choice expression that the one and only amyghost would think of to use and all contextual!
Yes, Jacko had lived in his own special world for so long and he was treated like a God by many and to be fair, he was exploited by many himself, including his own family and his soft nature was tainted and easy to manipulate. He learned to manipulate in his own way due to what he was afforded, but this was also conditional based and what he learned was his own survival technique. One that was way off the charts to the "hoi polloi".
The hype and sensationalism of marketing him only goes to show how superficial and dangerous the corporate world can be when the all mighty dollar is idolized as well. Many rock stars end up living a life of decadence and debauchery and still end up lonely and damaged goods. The recent Rocketman about Elton John is testament to this. Stripped of everything else, the human side is still one of mortality and suffering, same as everyone else.
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Jul 28, 2019 23:00:16 GMT
Gee it couldn't be because growing up he knew 7 kids sleeping in 1 room as normal since they had a family of 11 crammed into a 2 bedroom home, could it? And if there wasn't anything wrong with that, why would he think something's wrong with inviting families out to his home, and allowing kids (and in some cases parents) whose parents gave the okay, to stay in his duplex apartment sized bedroom? 'It just is' isn't good enough, there has to be an actual reason.
I haven't attempted to say that those events had nothing to do with the formation of his personality and how they might or might not have contributed to pedophile behaviors, so I'm not getting your point here. At no place in my post did I state that 'it just is'--I'm equally uncertain of what you mean by that--and I certainly haven't said there weren't 'reasons' for his behavior. There are reasons for most behaviors, but they usually can't be reduced down to a simple set of externals as being the entire answer. You look deeper amy and are not fixed in a one track pov. novo appears to be coming from a space of deflection and some denial.
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Jul 28, 2019 23:06:23 GMT
So you admit your favorite probable pedophile and role model MJ rented little boys to sleep in the same bed with him but you don't think he had sex with those children jest because he denied it? Your idol Jackson admitted he continued to have children sleep in the same bed with him even after he had been told to stop by everyone he knew. Why would you trust ANYTHING he has to say. I know you weren't addressing me, but it really does come down to a "he said, she said" scenario... We all believe what we want to believe. If anyone doubts this, just take a look at religion and faith. Due to all the twisted agendas and devious lies mixed in with the truth, nothing about Jacko is ever going to clear cut. Many in the herd want to stoke their pokers red hot and prod and poke like little imp minions with them because of their own insecurities and ignorance, because they are afraid to see the larger landscape.
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Post by novastar6 on Jul 28, 2019 23:16:55 GMT
But you base your belief of his guilt on the WORD of 'families who rented their kids out'. Why would you trust ANYTHING they had to say?
So you admit your favorite probable pedophile and role model MJ rented little boys to sleep in the same bed with him but you don't think he had sex with those children jest because he denied it? Your idol Jackson admitted he continued to have children sleep in the same bed with him even after he had been told to stop by everyone he knew. Why would you trust ANYTHING he has to say.
I admit no such thing, merely quoting the previous poster. If they think that's what these parents were really doing, why are these people who prostituted their kids out for the right price credible whatsoever? Because they say what the MJ haters WANT to hear? That they actually WANT kids to be raped for the stories to be true, is what's really sick. They can't stand the thought that nobody touched those kids and their parents just made them lie for fast money.
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Post by poelzig on Jul 28, 2019 23:50:16 GMT
Are you responding to me or zos?
I'm responding to you, and agreeing, anybody who believes anything that these people say lack critical thinking skills. It's not good enough to say 'well he's weird and people have SAID he was inappropriate with kids', that's not good enough. If a guy's wife comes up missing and he doesn't call the police to report her missing, that's suspicious but not enough to prove guilt, if he NEVER does anything to try and help the authorities find her, and he keeps changing his story about what happened the day she disappeared, the evidence mounts.
You keep prattling on and on and on that we shouldn't trust the families because they were just trying to extort money from your hero MJ. Your role model settled for over TWENTY MILLION DOLLARS with one of those families. A sum that was more than they were suing him for by the way. I'm sure innocent people regularly settle for MORE than they are being sued for because it makes so little sense, right? That 20 mil was for just one of the families. There's no telling what MJ spent out over his lifetime to prevent Oops I forgot you lack thinking skills so let me help. set·tle·ment /ˈsedlmənt/ noun 1. an official agreement intended to resolve a dispute or conflict. "unions succeeded in reaching a pay settlement" synonyms: agreement, deal, arrangement, resolution, accommodation, bargain, understanding, pact Mikey spent a LOOOOOOOTTTT of money on the families of the many many many little boys he slept with. He bought them homes and cars and jewelry, vacations etc... with no sign the grave train would end. As long as little timmy played naked sleepover with Pedo Jackson they got paid so it wasn't like the families couldn't have kept quiet and kept getting paid. Not sure if your blind worship allows you to care about such things but the parents or in some cases the parent of these kids are as loathsome as your pal MJ as far as I'm concerned. You and several other here have all the excuses for why a grown ass man loved sleeping naked with children, (I mean other than the only one that makes any logical sense at all which is MJ was a piece of shit pedophile monster) so can you list a few reasons you think sleeping naked while spooning a small child is actually not perverse at all?
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Post by dirtypillows on Jul 28, 2019 23:55:51 GMT
I'm responding to you, and agreeing, anybody who believes anything that these people say lack critical thinking skills. It's not good enough to say 'well he's weird and people have SAID he was inappropriate with kids', that's not good enough. If a guy's wife comes up missing and he doesn't call the police to report her missing, that's suspicious but not enough to prove guilt, if he NEVER does anything to try and help the authorities find her, and he keeps changing his story about what happened the day she disappeared, the evidence mounts.
You keep prattling on and on and on that we shouldn't trust the families because they were just trying to extort money from your hero MJ. Your role model settled for over TWENTY MILLION DOLLARS with one of those families. A sum that was more than they were suing him for by the way. I'm sure innocent people regularly settle for MORE than they are being sued for because it makes so little sense, right? That 20 mil was for just one of the families. There's no telling what MJ spent out over his lifetime to prevent Oops I forgot you lack thinking skills so let me help. set·tle·ment /ˈsedlmənt/ noun 1. an official agreement intended to resolve a dispute or conflict. "unions succeeded in reaching a pay settlement" synonyms: agreement, deal, arrangement, resolution, accommodation, bargain, understanding, pact Mikey spent a LOOOOOOOTTTT of money on the families of the many many many little boys he slept with. He bought them homes and cars and jewelry, vacations etc... with no sign the grave train would end. As long as little timmy played naked sleepover with Pedo Jackson they got paid so it wasn't like the families couldn't have kept quiet and kept getting paid. Not sure if your blind worship allows you to care about such things but the parents or in some cases the parent of these kids are as loathsome as your pal MJ as far as I'm concerned. You and several other here have all the excuses for why a grown ass man loved sleeping naked with children, (I mean other than the only one that makes any logical sense at all which is MJ was a piece of shit pedophile monster) so can you list a few reasons you think sleeping naked while spooning a small child is actually not perverse at all? How do you know that he was naked during the sleepovers? I never heard that before.
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Post by novastar6 on Jul 28, 2019 23:56:37 GMT
I'm responding to you, and agreeing, anybody who believes anything that these people say lack critical thinking skills. It's not good enough to say 'well he's weird and people have SAID he was inappropriate with kids', that's not good enough. If a guy's wife comes up missing and he doesn't call the police to report her missing, that's suspicious but not enough to prove guilt, if he NEVER does anything to try and help the authorities find her, and he keeps changing his story about what happened the day she disappeared, the evidence mounts.
You keep prattling on and on and on that we shouldn't trust the families because they were just trying to extort money from your hero MJ. Your role model settled for over TWENTY MILLION DOLLARS with one of those families. A sum that was more than they were suing him for by the way. I'm sure innocent people regularly settle for MORE than they are being sued for because it makes so little sense, right? That 20 mil was for just one of the families. There's no telling what MJ spent out over his lifetime to prevent Oops I forgot you lack thinking skills so let me help. set·tle·ment /ˈsedlmənt/ noun 1. an official agreement intended to resolve a dispute or conflict. "unions succeeded in reaching a pay settlement" synonyms: agreement, deal, arrangement, resolution, accommodation, bargain, understanding, pact Mikey spent a LOOOOOOOTTTT of money on the families of the many many many little boys he slept with. He bought them homes and cars and jewelry, vacations etc... with no sign the grave train would end. As long as little timmy played naked sleepover with Pedo Jackson they got paid so it wasn't like the families couldn't have kept quiet and kept getting paid. Not sure if your blind worship allows you to care about such things but the parents or in some cases the parent of these kids are as loathsome as your pal MJ as far as I'm concerned. You and several other here have all the excuses for why a grown ass man loved sleeping naked with children, (I mean other than the only one that makes any logical sense at all which is MJ was a piece of shit pedophile monster) so can you list a few reasons you think sleeping naked while spooning a small child is actually not perverse at all?
Name the families, name the boys, list the amount each supposedly received, and when, and how long they were all allegedly abused.
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Post by clusium on Jul 29, 2019 0:13:04 GMT
You keep prattling on and on and on that we shouldn't trust the families because they were just trying to extort money from your hero MJ. Your role model settled for over TWENTY MILLION DOLLARS with one of those families. A sum that was more than they were suing him for by the way. I'm sure innocent people regularly settle for MORE than they are being sued for because it makes so little sense, right? That 20 mil was for just one of the families. There's no telling what MJ spent out over his lifetime to prevent Oops I forgot you lack thinking skills so let me help. set·tle·ment /ˈsedlmənt/ noun 1. an official agreement intended to resolve a dispute or conflict. "unions succeeded in reaching a pay settlement" synonyms: agreement, deal, arrangement, resolution, accommodation, bargain, understanding, pact Mikey spent a LOOOOOOOTTTT of money on the families of the many many many little boys he slept with. He bought them homes and cars and jewelry, vacations etc... with no sign the grave train would end. As long as little timmy played naked sleepover with Pedo Jackson they got paid so it wasn't like the families couldn't have kept quiet and kept getting paid. Not sure if your blind worship allows you to care about such things but the parents or in some cases the parent of these kids are as loathsome as your pal MJ as far as I'm concerned. You and several other here have all the excuses for why a grown ass man loved sleeping naked with children, (I mean other than the only one that makes any logical sense at all which is MJ was a piece of shit pedophile monster) so can you list a few reasons you think sleeping naked while spooning a small child is actually not perverse at all?
Name the families, name the boys, list the amount each supposedly received, and when, and how long they were all allegedly abused.
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Jul 29, 2019 0:26:55 GMT
I have just skimmed through that at this stage, but it appears staggering that the parents were just so naive and star smitten themselves to even entertain the notion that anything kinky would happen with allowing a grown man who was seen as a "special" child inside, by letting him sleep in the same bed with their boys time and time again.
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Post by clusium on Jul 29, 2019 0:34:04 GMT
I have just skimmed through that at this stage, but it appears staggering that the parents were just so naive and star smitten themselves to even entertain the notion that anything kinky would happen with allowing a grown man who was seen as a "special" child inside, by letting him sleep in the same bed with their boys time and time again. Yes. That was the problem. The parents were so naive & star-struck, that they forgot that MJ was just as much a stranger, as the unidentified man sitting at the park bench, watching the kids in the playground.
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Post by poelzig on Jul 29, 2019 1:26:06 GMT
You keep prattling on and on and on that we shouldn't trust the families because they were just trying to extort money from your hero MJ. Your role model settled for over TWENTY MILLION DOLLARS with one of those families. A sum that was more than they were suing him for by the way. I'm sure innocent people regularly settle for MORE than they are being sued for because it makes so little sense, right? That 20 mil was for just one of the families. There's no telling what MJ spent out over his lifetime to prevent Oops I forgot you lack thinking skills so let me help. set·tle·ment /ˈsedlmənt/ noun 1. an official agreement intended to resolve a dispute or conflict. "unions succeeded in reaching a pay settlement" synonyms: agreement, deal, arrangement, resolution, accommodation, bargain, understanding, pact Mikey spent a LOOOOOOOTTTT of money on the families of the many many many little boys he slept with. He bought them homes and cars and jewelry, vacations etc... with no sign the grave train would end. As long as little timmy played naked sleepover with Pedo Jackson they got paid so it wasn't like the families couldn't have kept quiet and kept getting paid. Not sure if your blind worship allows you to care about such things but the parents or in some cases the parent of these kids are as loathsome as your pal MJ as far as I'm concerned. You and several other here have all the excuses for why a grown ass man loved sleeping naked with children, (I mean other than the only one that makes any logical sense at all which is MJ was a piece of shit pedophile monster) so can you list a few reasons you think sleeping naked while spooning a small child is actually not perverse at all?
Name the families, name the boys, list the amount each supposedly received, and when, and how long they were all allegedly abused.
It took me a few minutes using google to find the info. If I thought you would bother to read it or were open to considering even slightly that MJ might not be the angel you think I would stop watching the quality programming premium cable offers on Sunday night, search again, copy and paste several times into one of my patented highly entertaining posts and wait for your reaction. However, you're not going to change your mind or you would already be reading the easily found information. You seem to want video evidence of MJ butt raping little boys but you would still have an excuse for why that proved nothing. I'll give you a link later if you still can't find it by yourself.
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Jul 29, 2019 1:42:55 GMT
I have just skimmed through that at this stage, but it appears staggering that the parents were just so naive and star smitten themselves to even entertain the notion that anything kinky would happen with allowing a grown man who was seen as a "special" child inside, by letting him sleep in the same bed with their boys time and time again. Yes. That was the problem. The parents were so naive & star-struck, that they forgot that MJ was just as much a stranger, as the unidentified man sitting at the park bench, watching the kids in the playground. All they would have been thinking of, is the memories that they would hold and share and bask in the glorification and ego pandering self-satisfaction for themselves. So gullible and leaving behind a bitter residue of memory that they didn't actually anticipate or would even want anymore.
They allowed it, they can only take on the full responsibility for exploiting their own children and the paradox is, they wouldn't have dared to even publicly question any shadow of doubt they had about Jacko sleeping with their boys due to his star power and stature. They would have been silenced.
It was all masked behind such innocent intentions and childhood fun and games. What this proves is that something like this should never happen again, in allowing a psychologically disturbed mega celebrity to have his whims and mental disorder pandered too and protected just because he was damaged goods himself. The boys were failed and Jacko was failed.
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Post by poelzig on Jul 29, 2019 1:54:26 GMT
I have just skimmed through that at this stage, but it appears staggering that the parents were just so naive and star smitten themselves to even entertain the notion that anything kinky would happen with allowing a grown man who was seen as a "special" child inside, by letting him sleep in the same bed with their boys time and time again. It's not so staggering when you consider MJ was carefully selecting these families based on vulnerabilities he could exploit. He groomed the families as well as the kids.
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Jul 29, 2019 3:16:00 GMT
I have just skimmed through that at this stage, but it appears staggering that the parents were just so naive and star smitten themselves to even entertain the notion that anything kinky would happen with allowing a grown man who was seen as a "special" child inside, by letting him sleep in the same bed with their boys time and time again. It's not so staggering when you consider MJ was carefully selecting these families based on vulnerabilities he could exploit. He groomed the families as well as the kids. Yes, there is that factor as well to be brought into the equation. He wanted to share his wonderland with little boys and of course no-one would question any dubious intentions, but if he was wanting to share it with little girls and let them sleep in his bed all hell would break loose and boys will just be boys.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Jul 29, 2019 14:54:15 GMT
It might have helped if there was a responsible adult living with him who could have explained why it was not a good idea for him to do that sort of thing. Agreed, but, I have a strong feeling he still would have done so. Remember the 'Marin Bashir ' interview, when he (Bashir) addressed the issues of MJ sleeping with kids? Bashar asked MJ if he understood peoples' concerns about him (Jackson) sleeping with kids, & he replied that he did. Bashir asked him why, & Jackson replied, "Because they are ignorant." I think that MJ (& other pedophiles, just like him)truly believed that what he was doing was caring, & not harmful in any kind of way. He was wrong, but, he just did not realize that he was wrong. I'll never forget that Martin Bashir interview. It was the first time I felt there was truly something more than rumor behind the accusations. In the interview he's seen holding a boys hand and talking about sleeping with him, in a way that made me think "aw, man, he did do it, and he doesn't see what's wrong with it".
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I loved reading that in 
