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Post by fjenkins on Aug 13, 2019 16:43:41 GMT
The Giants used to be one of the last teams to only retire numbers of HOFers. Then when they retired Bonds number, that all change. They're not going to retire Will Clark's, a guy who only played half his career with the Giants hitting .299 and 170 home runs, who will never be in the Hall of Fame in any shape or form.
I was talking to one of the guys on my softball team about it last night. The conversation went like this:
Me: "They're retiring Clark's number"
Him: "About time."
"About time? Clark is a Hall of Good at best. Retiring his number opens the door for a slew of good but not great players getting their number retired. Robby Thompson, Kevin Mitchell..."
"(laughs) Rich Aurilla" (we both laugh)
Me: "Well that means Bumgardner's number will get retired for sure"
Him: "He's going to be in the hall of fame for sure so good."
Me: "Huh? Hall of fame? Are you high?"
And this is the common fan's thinking. Popular players on teams will be in the Hall. Bum won't last past the first ballot but I'm sure lots of Giants fans think he's a future Hall fo Famer. Tom Tolbert on the radio has been calling for Will Clark to be the Hall for a couple years. And this is why fans don't vote who gets into the Hall.
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Post by tristramshandy on Aug 13, 2019 17:10:15 GMT
The Giants used to be one of the last teams to only retire numbers of HOFers. Then when they retired Bonds number, that all change. They're not going to retire Will Clark's, a guy who only played half his career with the Giants hitting .299 and 170 home runs, who will never be in the Hall of Fame in any shape or form. I was talking to one of the guys on my softball team about it last night. The conversation went like this: Me: "They're retiring Clark's number" Him: "About time." "About time? Clark is a Hall of Good at best. Retiring his number opens the door for a slew of good but not great players getting their number retired. Robby Thompson, Kevin Mitchell..." "(laughs) Rich Aurilla" (we both laugh) Me: "Well that means Bumgardner's number will get retired for sure" Him: "He's going to be in the hall of fame for sure so good." Me: "Huh? Hall of fame? Are you high?" And this is the common fan's thinking. Popular players on teams will be in the Hall. Bum won't last past the first ballot but I'm sure lots of Giants fans think he's a future Hall fo Famer. Tom Tolbert on the radio has been calling for Will Clark to be the Hall for a couple years. And this is why fans don't vote who gets into the Hall. Are there any teams with three World Series championships who don't have a player in the Hall of Fame? If not Bumgardner is it Posey? Bochy? Somebody has to represent them, don't they? Will Clark is the type of player that should be put on a Wall of Fame or Circle of Honor, not a retired number.
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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Aug 13, 2019 17:14:39 GMT
where's Matt Williams fit in this conversation?
just 'Wall of Fame' and no # retired I'm assuming?
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Post by klawrencio79 on Aug 13, 2019 17:30:03 GMT
where's Matt Williams fit in this conversation? just 'Wall of Fame' and no # retired I'm assuming? Probably in the same boat. Fairly similar overall bodies of work, with Williams hitting more HRs, but Clark being the better overall player by most metrics. I always liked both players, not being a fan of the team anyway.
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Post by FrankSobotka1514 on Aug 13, 2019 17:43:08 GMT
The Giants used to be one of the last teams to only retire numbers of HOFers. Then when they retired Bonds number, that all change. They're not going to retire Will Clark's, a guy who only played half his career with the Giants hitting .299 and 170 home runs, who will never be in the Hall of Fame in any shape or form. I was talking to one of the guys on my softball team about it last night. The conversation went like this: Me: "They're retiring Clark's number" Him: "About time." "About time? Clark is a Hall of Good at best. Retiring his number opens the door for a slew of good but not great players getting their number retired. Robby Thompson, Kevin Mitchell..." "(laughs) Rich Aurilla" (we both laugh) Me: "Well that means Bumgardner's number will get retired for sure" Him: "He's going to be in the hall of fame for sure so good." Me: "Huh? Hall of fame? Are you high?" And this is the common fan's thinking. Popular players on teams will be in the Hall. Bum won't last past the first ballot but I'm sure lots of Giants fans think he's a future Hall fo Famer. Tom Tolbert on the radio has been calling for Will Clark to be the Hall for a couple years. And this is why fans don't vote who gets into the Hall. Are there any teams with three World Series championships who don't have a player in the Hall of Fame? If not Bumgardner is it Posey? Bochy? Somebody has to represent them, don't they? Will Clark is the type of player that should be put on a Wall of Fame or Circle of Honor, not a retired number. Trying to think who’s even won 3 in my lifetime. The A’s have Reggie and Catfish Hunter in. The Reds (who only won two) have half their team in. The Yankees have Rivera and soon to be Jeter. Red Sox will probably have Ortiz. I don’t see any of these Giants with a player of that caliber so Bochy? I feel the standards of getting in anymore are a lot less than in years past so who knows. |
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Post by _ on Aug 13, 2019 17:51:51 GMT
I heard the Giants want to retire Tebow's number next.
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Post by sdm3 on Aug 13, 2019 17:55:15 GMT
I heard the Giants want to retire Tebow's number next. What?! But he only hit .163 in double A! Are you sure about this? |
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Post by klawrencio79 on Aug 13, 2019 17:56:10 GMT
Are there any teams with three World Series championships who don't have a player in the Hall of Fame? If not Bumgardner is it Posey? Bochy? Somebody has to represent them, don't they? Will Clark is the type of player that should be put on a Wall of Fame or Circle of Honor, not a retired number. Trying to think who’s even won 3 in my lifetime. The A’s have Reggie and Catfish Hunter in. The Reds (who only won two) have half their team in. The Yankees have Rivera and soon to be Jeter. Red Sox will probably have Ortiz. I don’t see any of these Giants with a player of that caliber so Bochy? I feel the standards of getting in anymore are a lot less than in years past so who knows. Madison Bumgarner's numbers are not only down the past 3 years, but his velocity is down, indicative of a relatively early downside. He already pitches in a pitcher-friendly park but maybe he can have a Verlander-type resurgence. He just turned 30 two weeks ago so he should have plenty left in the tank.
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Post by _ on Aug 13, 2019 17:57:24 GMT
I heard the Giants want to retire Tebow's number next. What?! But he only hit .163 in double A! Are you sure about this? i think it's legit, fjenkins fowarded the article to me from TimTebowFans.net
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Post by FrankSobotka1514 on Aug 13, 2019 18:01:21 GMT
Trying to think who’s even won 3 in my lifetime. The A’s have Reggie and Catfish Hunter in. The Reds (who only won two) have half their team in. The Yankees have Rivera and soon to be Jeter. Red Sox will probably have Ortiz. I don’t see any of these Giants with a player of that caliber so Bochy? I feel the standards of getting in anymore are a lot less than in years past so who knows. Madison Bumgarner's numbers are not only down the past 3 years, but his velocity is down, indicative of a relatively early downside. He already pitches in a pitcher-friendly park but maybe he can have a Verlander-type resurgence. He just turned 30 two weeks ago so he should have plenty left in the tank. I probably need to adjust my own standards when it comes to pitchers. To me Curt Schilling is the absolute borderline between who gets in and who doesn’t, and to me he’s not really a hall of famer (but I can see how he could go either way). So for me, if a pitcher isn’t as good as Schilling then he shouldn’t get in. Mad Bum was certainly dominant in the post-season but failing some Verlander-esque ending to his career I don’t see him getting in. But I’m still basing on stats like Randy Johnson and Pedro. The way pitchers are used now they’ll never put up those numbers again. |
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Post by klawrencio79 on Aug 13, 2019 18:57:58 GMT
Madison Bumgarner's numbers are not only down the past 3 years, but his velocity is down, indicative of a relatively early downside. He already pitches in a pitcher-friendly park but maybe he can have a Verlander-type resurgence. He just turned 30 two weeks ago so he should have plenty left in the tank. I probably need to adjust my own standards when it comes to pitchers. To me Curt Schilling is the absolute borderline between who gets in and who doesn’t, and to me he’s not really a hall of famer (but I can see how he could go either way). So for me, if a pitcher isn’t as good as Schilling then he shouldn’t get in. Mad Bum was certainly dominant in the post-season but failing some Verlander-esque ending to his career I don’t see him getting in. But I’m still basing on stats like Randy Johnson and Pedro. The way pitchers are used now they’ll never put up those numbers again. Agreed, I should have clarified that I don't think MadBum gets in the way he's going now. If he has a Verlander-esque career in this age 30 seasons then it's possible.
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Post by fjenkins on Aug 13, 2019 21:00:36 GMT
The Giants used to be one of the last teams to only retire numbers of HOFers. Then when they retired Bonds number, that all change. They're not going to retire Will Clark's, a guy who only played half his career with the Giants hitting .299 and 170 home runs, who will never be in the Hall of Fame in any shape or form. I was talking to one of the guys on my softball team about it last night. The conversation went like this: Me: "They're retiring Clark's number" Him: "About time." "About time? Clark is a Hall of Good at best. Retiring his number opens the door for a slew of good but not great players getting their number retired. Robby Thompson, Kevin Mitchell..." "(laughs) Rich Aurilla" (we both laugh) Me: "Well that means Bumgardner's number will get retired for sure" Him: "He's going to be in the hall of fame for sure so good." Me: "Huh? Hall of fame? Are you high?" And this is the common fan's thinking. Popular players on teams will be in the Hall. Bum won't last past the first ballot but I'm sure lots of Giants fans think he's a future Hall fo Famer. Tom Tolbert on the radio has been calling for Will Clark to be the Hall for a couple years. And this is why fans don't vote who gets into the Hall. Are there any teams with three World Series championships who don't have a player in the Hall of Fame? If not Bumgardner is it Posey? Bochy? Somebody has to represent them, don't they? Will Clark is the type of player that should be put on a Wall of Fame or Circle of Honor, not a retired number. Clark is on the wall of fame already. I do not get the number thing. The whole Giants retired numbers thing went to shit. I love Posey, have a dog named after him but right now, I do not think he's a Hall of Famer. As for Bochy, he gets in the second he's eligible.
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Post by fjenkins on Aug 13, 2019 21:04:13 GMT
I probably need to adjust my own standards when it comes to pitchers. To me Curt Schilling is the absolute borderline between who gets in and who doesn’t, and to me he’s not really a hall of famer (but I can see how he could go either way). So for me, if a pitcher isn’t as good as Schilling then he shouldn’t get in. Mad Bum was certainly dominant in the post-season but failing some Verlander-esque ending to his career I don’t see him getting in. But I’m still basing on stats like Randy Johnson and Pedro. The way pitchers are used now they’ll never put up those numbers again. Agreed, I should have clarified that I don't think MadBum gets in the way he's going now. If he has a Verlander-esque career in this age 30 seasons then it's possible. Bum would have to throw up some amazing seasons the last half of his career to get in the Hall. He's not remotely a HOFer right now or anywhere near. Right now he'd be one and done on a ballot. He's a 4 time all star, never won a Cy or any big award. Has the three WS and did well there and a solid 3.09 ERA but right now he's not comparible in the baseball-reference "similar pitchers" scores to anyone remotely close to the Hall. ON that note, I remember half way through Mussina's career people were saying he was going to be in the hall and I laughed. And he made it and with a far worse ERA and not throwing up a 20 win season until the end.
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Post by fjenkins on Aug 13, 2019 21:08:05 GMT
where's Matt Williams fit in this conversation? just 'Wall of Fame' and no # retired I'm assuming? If they're retiring Clark, might as well do Williams. They put another juicer up there already with Bonds, might as well celebrate everyone who juiced, the Giants have no integrity any more with that stuff. At least williams was with the Giants longer than Clark. On that note, most mad I've ever been in my life at a trade was the trade that sent Kent from the mets to the Giants and Williams to the Indians (3 way trade). Turned out to possibly be the best trade ever.
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Post by fjenkins on Aug 13, 2019 21:09:09 GMT
What?! But he only hit .163 in double A! Are you sure about this? i think it's legit, fjenkins fowarded the article to me from TimTebowFans.net I've created a spreadsheet to keep track of the Tebow posts I'm about to do, on the 4th tab I've got info from timtebowfans.net I'll be including in some of my posts here.
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Post by twothousandonemark on Aug 14, 2019 4:17:07 GMT
I always treated him like the NL's Don Mattingly.
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Post by nutsberryfarm 🏜 on Sept 11, 2019 23:35:07 GMT
The Giants used to be one of the last teams to only retire numbers of HOFers. Then when they retired Bonds number, that all change. They're not going to retire Will Clark's, a guy who only played half his career with the Giants hitting .299 and 170 home runs, who will never be in the Hall of Fame in any shape or form. I was talking to one of the guys on my softball team about it last night. The conversation went like this: Me: "They're retiring Clark's number" Him: "About time." "About time? Clark is a Hall of Good at best. Retiring his number opens the door for a slew of good but not great players getting their number retired. Robby Thompson, Kevin Mitchell..." "(laughs) Rich Aurilla" (we both laugh) Me: "Well that means Bumgardner's number will get retired for sure" Him: "He's going to be in the hall of fame for sure so good." Me: "Huh? Hall of fame? Are you high?" And this is the common fan's thinking. Popular players on teams will be in the Hall. Bum won't last past the first ballot but I'm sure lots of Giants fans think he's a future Hall fo Famer. Tom Tolbert on the radio has been calling for Will Clark to be the Hall for a couple years. And this is why fans don't vote who gets into the Hall. what about jt snow?
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Post by fjenkins on Sept 12, 2019 23:00:05 GMT
The Giants used to be one of the last teams to only retire numbers of HOFers. Then when they retired Bonds number, that all change. They're not going to retire Will Clark's, a guy who only played half his career with the Giants hitting .299 and 170 home runs, who will never be in the Hall of Fame in any shape or form. I was talking to one of the guys on my softball team about it last night. The conversation went like this: Me: "They're retiring Clark's number" Him: "About time." "About time? Clark is a Hall of Good at best. Retiring his number opens the door for a slew of good but not great players getting their number retired. Robby Thompson, Kevin Mitchell..." "(laughs) Rich Aurilla" (we both laugh) Me: "Well that means Bumgardner's number will get retired for sure" Him: "He's going to be in the hall of fame for sure so good." Me: "Huh? Hall of fame? Are you high?" And this is the common fan's thinking. Popular players on teams will be in the Hall. Bum won't last past the first ballot but I'm sure lots of Giants fans think he's a future Hall fo Famer. Tom Tolbert on the radio has been calling for Will Clark to be the Hall for a couple years. And this is why fans don't vote who gets into the Hall. what about jt snow? JT Snow doesn't even belong in the Hall of Good.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2019 23:51:03 GMT
Doesnt every team have their own hall of fame? I'd say Clark and Bumgarner should be in the Giants HOF but not really have their numbers retired.
I know the Braves have this with the likes of Andruw Jones, David Justice, Javy Lopez etc but those guys wont get into the Hall or have numbers retired. Still honors those guys without doing so.
In regards to MadBum and the HOF, if he got in it would be on the strength of his post season numbers. The guy has rings but never won a Cy Young. Doesnt seem like he will have the longevity to get to like 250 Wins. As someone above said, he would need a Verlander like comeback.
The comparison to Schilling is also fair. Schilling has the post season resume but also no Cy Young however he has a high Win total. However I would never vote for him because he is borderline imo and a massive douchebag.
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Post by nutsberryfarm 🏜 on Sept 14, 2019 15:31:13 GMT
JT Snow doesn't even belong in the Hall of Good. For real? Top D 1st baseman of the late 20th century in my book.
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