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Post by faustus5 on Aug 20, 2019 10:34:24 GMT
Okay then, prove how The Last Jedi is very well-liked by most movie goers, keep in mind financial gain does not reflect quality and likeability but popularity. Not my problem--it's up to you to use scientifically accurate data which shows the film was a failure, which of course you will never be able to do. But it is hilarious the way your deluded state of mind forces you into pretzel like twists of non-logic where the enormous popularity of the film mysteriously can't be allowed to reflect on the film's "likeability". Pathetic. Unlike the other projects which you claim were cancelled or delayed because TLJ was a "failure", the Johnson trilogy was NEVER cancelled and he's writing it now, clear evidence that the studio liked his work a lot. It may never actually happen. Or they may take what he came up with and hand it to someone else to "polish" it into something more to their liking. But it is still moving forward--you see, that's what him writing it means. Stop right there. Personal anecdotes are bullshit. For all I know, and this seems likely, you hang out mostly with equally deluded morons.
The fact that you would write this kind of garbage bullshit is all the evidence I need to know that intellectually you are a knuckle dragging Neanderthal unworthy of any further response. I hope every subsequent Star Wars project makes you want to vomit. That would be a good indication that the artists are doing something right.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Aug 20, 2019 16:12:37 GMT
Okay then, prove how The Last Jedi is very well-liked by most movie goers, keep in mind financial gain does not reflect quality and likeability but popularity. Not my problem--it's up to you to use scientifically accurate data which shows the film was a failure, which of course you will never be able to do. But it is hilarious the way your deluded state of mind forces you into pretzel like twists of non-logic where the enormous popularity of the film mysteriously can't be allowed to reflect on the film's "likeability". Pathetic. Unlike the other projects which you claim were cancelled or delayed because TLJ was a "failure", the Johnson trilogy was NEVER cancelled and he's writing it now, clear evidence that the studio liked his work a lot. It may never actually happen. Or they may take what he came up with and hand it to someone else to "polish" it into something more to their liking. But it is still moving forward--you see, that's what him writing it means. Stop right there. Personal anecdotes are bullshit. For all I know, and this seems likely, you hang out mostly with equally deluded morons.
The fact that you would write this kind of garbage bullshit is all the evidence I need to know that intellectually you are a knuckle dragging Neanderthal unworthy of any further response. I hope every subsequent Star Wars project makes you want to vomit. That would be a good indication that the artists are doing something right.
Wow, I'm sure you're great entertainment at parties, that is if you've ever been invited to one before...I asked you to prove that The Last Jedi is a very much liked movie among most cinema goers and you provided nothing. Personal anecdotes are BS? User ratings are BS? So, what should I use to prove my point that The Last Jedi was very divisive amongst cinema goers, in particular fans of the brand? It seems like nothing will satisfy you. So if everything was all in the hood why the shake up at Lucasfilm? Why the cancelled projects? Why the decision to stop having a Star Wars film released every year - as was the hope of Bob Iger? I will believe Johnson's trilogy is being made when there is actually serious news coming about it like when casting actually happens and there is a photo shared from the set. You have to be in serious denial if you do not think The Last Jedi didn't pander to the SJW crowd, for goodness sake Laura Dern's character's hair color was purple for crying out loud, and pretty much all the men in the movie were written as incompetent, lousy, betas.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Aug 20, 2019 16:43:47 GMT
Not my problem--it's up to you to use scientifically accurate data which shows the film was a failure, which of course you will never be able to do. But it is hilarious the way your deluded state of mind forces you into pretzel like twists of non-logic where the enormous popularity of the film mysteriously can't be allowed to reflect on the film's "likeability". Pathetic. Unlike the other projects which you claim were cancelled or delayed because TLJ was a "failure", the Johnson trilogy was NEVER cancelled and he's writing it now, clear evidence that the studio liked his work a lot. It may never actually happen. Or they may take what he came up with and hand it to someone else to "polish" it into something more to their liking. But it is still moving forward--you see, that's what him writing it means. Stop right there. Personal anecdotes are bullshit. For all I know, and this seems likely, you hang out mostly with equally deluded morons.
The fact that you would write this kind of garbage bullshit is all the evidence I need to know that intellectually you are a knuckle dragging Neanderthal unworthy of any further response. I hope every subsequent Star Wars project makes you want to vomit. That would be a good indication that the artists are doing something right.
Wow, I'm sure you're great entertainment at parties, that is if you've ever been invited to one before...I asked you to prove that The Last Jedi is a very much liked movie among most cinema goers and you provided nothing. Personal anecdotes are BS? User ratings are BS? So, what should I use to prove my point that The Last Jedi was very divisive amongst cinema goers, in particular fans of the brand? It seems like nothing will satisfy you. So if everything was all in the hood why the shake up at Lucasfilm? Why the cancelled projects? Why the decision to stop having a Star Wars film released every year - as was the hope of Bob Iger? I will believe Johnson's trilogy is being made when there is actually serious news coming about it like when casting actually happens and there is a photo shared from the set. You have to be in serious denial if you do not think The Last Jedi didn't pander to the SJW crowd, for goodness sake Laura Dern's character's hair color was purple for crying out loud, and pretty much all the men in the movie were written as incompetent, lousy, betas. The decision to stop releasing Star Wars films every year wasn’t brought about by TLJ. It was brought about by the failure of Solo. Also, how does a character having purple hair qualify as pandering? And how were the men in the movie portrayed as “incompetent, lousy, betas”?
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Post by kuatorises on Aug 20, 2019 16:52:39 GMT
So, these are still in the works. This sounds like the right approach from Rian, because Star Wars needs to grow by introducing new characters & concepts etc and expanding beyond the original films in order to be viable going forward.The current trilogy has already done that.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Aug 20, 2019 20:30:55 GMT
Wow, I'm sure you're great entertainment at parties, that is if you've ever been invited to one before...I asked you to prove that The Last Jedi is a very much liked movie among most cinema goers and you provided nothing. Personal anecdotes are BS? User ratings are BS? So, what should I use to prove my point that The Last Jedi was very divisive amongst cinema goers, in particular fans of the brand? It seems like nothing will satisfy you. So if everything was all in the hood why the shake up at Lucasfilm? Why the cancelled projects? Why the decision to stop having a Star Wars film released every year - as was the hope of Bob Iger? I will believe Johnson's trilogy is being made when there is actually serious news coming about it like when casting actually happens and there is a photo shared from the set. You have to be in serious denial if you do not think The Last Jedi didn't pander to the SJW crowd, for goodness sake Laura Dern's character's hair color was purple for crying out loud, and pretty much all the men in the movie were written as incompetent, lousy, betas. The decision to stop releasing Star Wars films every year wasn’t brought about by TLJ. It was brought about by the failure of Solo. Also, how does a character having purple hair qualify as pandering? And how were the men in the movie portrayed as “incompetent, lousy, betas”? Yes, because backlash from TLJ lessened interest in the product. 'Social Justice Warrior' types normally have brightly colored hair styles such as purple to draw attention to themselves and tell a person what it is that they are for politically and socially on the surface level so if one agrees they are welcome to say hi if not they should keep their mouths shut. It would be a different story for most who see it this way(pandering) if Holdo were a better character that was more likeable and willing to give every and any one person their chance to speak instead of barking orders at Poe and shutting him down(which did more harm than good). She was a very stereotypical character. Most of the movie Poe is talked down to and treated like an incompetent dolt, Finn spends most of the movie acting awkward and doing what others want him to do without much to no pause or hesitation, Luke was made into a quitter who abandoned his principles, let his emotions get the better of him and try to kill his own nephew in his sleep and abandoned Rey for real, and then there's Hux who is even more comical in this movie and Kylo Ren who is made into an bigger crybaby who has very violent temper tantrums.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Aug 20, 2019 20:50:20 GMT
The decision to stop releasing Star Wars films every year wasn’t brought about by TLJ. It was brought about by the failure of Solo. Also, how does a character having purple hair qualify as pandering? And how were the men in the movie portrayed as “incompetent, lousy, betas”? Yes, because backlash from TLJ lessened interest in the product. 'Social Justice Warrior' types normally have brightly colored hair styles such as purple to draw attention to themselves and tell a person what it is that they are for politically and socially on the surface level so if one agrees they are welcome to say hi if not they should keep their mouths shut. It would be a different story for most who see it this way(pandering) if Holdo were a better character that was more likeable and willing to give every and any one person their chance to speak instead of barking orders at Poe and shutting him down(which did more harm than good). She was a very stereotypical character. Most of the movie Poe is talked down to and treated like an incompetent dolt, Finn spends most of the movie acting awkward and doing what others want him to do without much to no pause or hesitation, Luke was made into a quitter who abandoned his principles, let his emotions get the better of him and try to kill his own nephew in his sleep and abandoned Rey for real, and then there's Hux who is even more comical in this movie and Kylo Ren who is made into an bigger crybaby who has very violent temper tantrums. That’s a really odd conclusion to come up with. Holdo was given purple hair because they wanted to emphasize how much of a SJW she is? That sounds like the kind of thing you would do if you wanted to make fun of SJWs. It would help if you could clarify what you mean about Poe being treated like an “incompetent dolt”. Also, Finn acting awkward is pretty consistent with his character in TFA. He also managed to kill Captain Phasma (a woman), so I’m not sure what the problem is. As for Luke, his character in the film wasn’t an attempt to make men look bad. Luke was portrayed as being disillusioned with the Jedi because it helped build up conflict for the movie, not because Rian Johnson wanted to shit all over the character. Besides, his sacrifice at the end of the film was treated as a pretty pivotal moment. Finally, Hux was nothing more than a generic Nazi-esque villain in TFA, so him being treated like a joke doesn’t strike me as a big deal, and Kylo Ren was already shown having violent temper tantrums in TFA. That’s the entire point of the character. He’s not supposed to be some big badass like Darth Vader. He’s a very emotional man who desperately wants to be like his grandfather. To to be clear, I’m not saying you’re wrong for disliking TLJ. There are valid reasons to dislike the movie. However, claiming that it was promoting some man-hating agenda is just silly.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Aug 20, 2019 23:06:02 GMT
Yes, because backlash from TLJ lessened interest in the product. 'Social Justice Warrior' types normally have brightly colored hair styles such as purple to draw attention to themselves and tell a person what it is that they are for politically and socially on the surface level so if one agrees they are welcome to say hi if not they should keep their mouths shut. It would be a different story for most who see it this way(pandering) if Holdo were a better character that was more likeable and willing to give every and any one person their chance to speak instead of barking orders at Poe and shutting him down(which did more harm than good). She was a very stereotypical character. Most of the movie Poe is talked down to and treated like an incompetent dolt, Finn spends most of the movie acting awkward and doing what others want him to do without much to no pause or hesitation, Luke was made into a quitter who abandoned his principles, let his emotions get the better of him and try to kill his own nephew in his sleep and abandoned Rey for real, and then there's Hux who is even more comical in this movie and Kylo Ren who is made into an bigger crybaby who has very violent temper tantrums. That’s a really odd conclusion to come up with. Holdo was given purple hair because they wanted to emphasize how much of a SJW she is? That sounds like the kind of thing you would do if you wanted to make fun of SJWs. It would help if you could clarify what you mean about Poe being treated like an “incompetent dolt”. Also, Finn acting awkward is pretty consistent with his character in TFA. He also managed to kill Captain Phasma (a woman), so I’m not sure what the problem is. As for Luke, his character in the film wasn’t an attempt to make men look bad. Luke was portrayed as being disillusioned with the Jedi because it helped build up conflict for the movie, not because Rian Johnson wanted to shit all over the character. Besides, his sacrifice at the end of the film was treated as a pretty pivotal moment. Finally, Hux was nothing more than a generic Nazi-esque villain in TFA, so him being treated like a joke doesn’t strike me as a big deal, and Kylo Ren was already shown having violent temper tantrums in TFA. That’s the entire point of the character. He’s not supposed to be some big badass like Darth Vader. He’s a very emotional man who desperately wants to be like his grandfather. To to be clear, I’m not saying you’re wrong for disliking TLJ. There are valid reasons to dislike the movie. However, claiming that it was promoting some man-hating agenda is just silly. It's not really a conclusion that I have made on my own, there are actually lots of people who have described Holdo as being a stereotype of 'SJW Hollywood' from personality to appearance. The reason behind such conclusion is not based entirely on the character itself from the movie but in larger part of how Disney and the creatives involved have handled the Star Wars property since the acquisition and how they have treated the hardcore fans labeling most who even have fair criticism as really bad folk. There is a lot of meat and bones here to break down why such conclusions were drawn, but YouTube is full of some pretty solid videos on the matter that would explain it better than I probably could, like Midnight's Edge. Poe is treated like an incompetent dolt by Holdo and other superiors and is often talked down to or silenced, and the thing is Holdo is not really presented as an antagonist in the situation very well. I give Finn a pass for acting awkward in TFA because for half of that movie he has PTSD from his experiences on the battlefront, at the end and in TLJ he should be over it as he's made his decision to be on the side of the rebellion. I am not saying Luke's characterization in TLJ was an attempt to make men look bad, or that Rian Johnson intentionally wanted to ruin the character but his attempt deconstruction did not do the film any favors or felt respectful to what had come before. You are right about Hux and Kylo Ren, as they were like that in TFA, which is another issue I have in that they have been both very static and flat for two whole movies, Johnson could have made them better but he ended up making them worse in my opinion. FOR THE RECORD I do not hate The Last Jedi, but I am no fan of it either and my reasons stretch beyond politics. Do I think Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy had some kind of anti-male agenda when it was being made? No, not necessarily, but I know there are those out there who certainly received that kind of message.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Aug 20, 2019 23:22:09 GMT
That’s a really odd conclusion to come up with. Holdo was given purple hair because they wanted to emphasize how much of a SJW she is? That sounds like the kind of thing you would do if you wanted to make fun of SJWs. It would help if you could clarify what you mean about Poe being treated like an “incompetent dolt”. Also, Finn acting awkward is pretty consistent with his character in TFA. He also managed to kill Captain Phasma (a woman), so I’m not sure what the problem is. As for Luke, his character in the film wasn’t an attempt to make men look bad. Luke was portrayed as being disillusioned with the Jedi because it helped build up conflict for the movie, not because Rian Johnson wanted to shit all over the character. Besides, his sacrifice at the end of the film was treated as a pretty pivotal moment. Finally, Hux was nothing more than a generic Nazi-esque villain in TFA, so him being treated like a joke doesn’t strike me as a big deal, and Kylo Ren was already shown having violent temper tantrums in TFA. That’s the entire point of the character. He’s not supposed to be some big badass like Darth Vader. He’s a very emotional man who desperately wants to be like his grandfather. To to be clear, I’m not saying you’re wrong for disliking TLJ. There are valid reasons to dislike the movie. However, claiming that it was promoting some man-hating agenda is just silly. It's not really a conclusion that I have made on my own, there are actually lots of people who have described Holdo as being a stereotype of 'SJW Hollywood' from personality to appearance. The reason behind such conclusion is not based entirely on the character itself from the movie but in larger part of how Disney and the creatives involved have handled the Star Wars property since the acquisition and how they have treated the hardcore fans labeling most who even have fair criticism as really bad folk. There is a lot of meat and bones here to break down why such conclusions were drawn, but YouTube is full of some pretty solid videos on the matter that would explain it better than I probably could, like Midnight's Edge. Poe is treated like an incompetent dolt by Holdo and other superiors and is often talked down to or silenced, and the thing is Holdo is not really presented as an antagonist in the situation very well. I give Finn a pass for acting awkward in TFA because for half of that movie he has PTSD from his experiences on the battlefront, at the end and in TLJ he should be over it as he's made his decision to be on the side of the rebellion. I am not saying Luke's characterization in TLJ was an attempt to make men look bad, or that Rian Johnson intentionally wanted to ruin the character but his attempt deconstruction did not do the film any favors or felt respectful to what had come before. You are right about Hux and Kylo Ren, as they were like that in TFA, which is another issue I have in that they have been both very static and flat for two whole movies, Johnson could have made them better but he ended up making them worse in my opinion. FOR THE RECORD I do not hate The Last Jedi, but I am no fan of it either and my reasons stretch beyond politics. Do I think Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy had some kind of anti-male agenda when it was being made? No, not necessarily, but I know there are those out there who certainly received that kind of message. Midnight’s Edge? The same people who claimed they had “insider information” that Wonder Woman was a mess, only to then backtrack after people ended up liking the movie? Yeah, I’m inclined to take what they say with a grain of salt. Didn't Holdo complement Poe, and say to Leia that she likes him after it was revealed that she was a good guy all along? If Finn has PTSD, then that’s not something you simply get over just like that, especially given that TLJ takes place shortly after TFA. Anyway, I would argue that Finn killing Phasma near the end was a pretty major moment for him, and that it signaled his growth as a Resistance fighter.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Aug 20, 2019 23:51:21 GMT
It's not really a conclusion that I have made on my own, there are actually lots of people who have described Holdo as being a stereotype of 'SJW Hollywood' from personality to appearance. The reason behind such conclusion is not based entirely on the character itself from the movie but in larger part of how Disney and the creatives involved have handled the Star Wars property since the acquisition and how they have treated the hardcore fans labeling most who even have fair criticism as really bad folk. There is a lot of meat and bones here to break down why such conclusions were drawn, but YouTube is full of some pretty solid videos on the matter that would explain it better than I probably could, like Midnight's Edge. Poe is treated like an incompetent dolt by Holdo and other superiors and is often talked down to or silenced, and the thing is Holdo is not really presented as an antagonist in the situation very well. I give Finn a pass for acting awkward in TFA because for half of that movie he has PTSD from his experiences on the battlefront, at the end and in TLJ he should be over it as he's made his decision to be on the side of the rebellion. I am not saying Luke's characterization in TLJ was an attempt to make men look bad, or that Rian Johnson intentionally wanted to ruin the character but his attempt deconstruction did not do the film any favors or felt respectful to what had come before. You are right about Hux and Kylo Ren, as they were like that in TFA, which is another issue I have in that they have been both very static and flat for two whole movies, Johnson could have made them better but he ended up making them worse in my opinion. FOR THE RECORD I do not hate The Last Jedi, but I am no fan of it either and my reasons stretch beyond politics. Do I think Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy had some kind of anti-male agenda when it was being made? No, not necessarily, but I know there are those out there who certainly received that kind of message. Midnight’s Edge? The same people who claimed they had “insider information” that Wonder Woman was a mess, only to then backtrack after people ended up liking the movie? Yeah, I’m inclined to take what they say with a grain of salt. Didn't Holdo complement Poe, and say to Leia that she likes him after it was revealed that she was a good guy all along? If Finn has PTSD, then that’s not something you simply get over just like that, especially given that TLJ takes place shortly after TFA. Anyway, I would argue that Finn killing Phasma near the end was a pretty major moment for him, and that it signaled his growth as a Resistance fighter. No, you're thinking of someone else or some other channel, one of the authors of ME said in a video that they heard via Reddit that Wonder Woman was, at that stage in production, a mess but a very fixable one, they did not say the movie was doomed and they liked the movie but didn't think it was great. But fair enough, even so though they are not the only channels that have gone into detail about the Star Wars situation in discussion. I get that, but it felt at the end of The Force Awakens that he was beyond that and knew what to do and how to act. Fair enough. Once again, good to have a fair and civilized discussion Guy, the internet needs more people like you.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Aug 21, 2019 0:11:54 GMT
Midnight’s Edge? The same people who claimed they had “insider information” that Wonder Woman was a mess, only to then backtrack after people ended up liking the movie? Yeah, I’m inclined to take what they say with a grain of salt. Didn't Holdo complement Poe, and say to Leia that she likes him after it was revealed that she was a good guy all along? If Finn has PTSD, then that’s not something you simply get over just like that, especially given that TLJ takes place shortly after TFA. Anyway, I would argue that Finn killing Phasma near the end was a pretty major moment for him, and that it signaled his growth as a Resistance fighter. No, you're thinking of someone else or some other channel, one of the authors of ME said in a video that they heard via Reddit that Wonder Woman was, at that stage in production, a mess but a very fixable one, they did not say the movie was doomed and they liked the movie but didn't think it was great. But fair enough, even so though they are not the only channels that have gone into detail about the Star Wars situation in discussion. I get that, but it felt at the end of The Force Awakens that he was beyond that and knew what to do and how to act. Fair enough. Once again, good to have a fair and civilized discussion Guy, the internet needs more people like you. Thanks. I appreciate that. For the record, I’m not crazy about Disney’s Star Wars films either.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Aug 21, 2019 15:46:21 GMT
Why would Disney have expected TLJ to make more than TFA? Is there any statement from them where they claimed such a thing would happen? They were optimistically hopeful TLJ would be in the vicinity of TFA box office, but they didn't have an expectation it would make as much or more. But they also didn't think it had a chance of making anything less than 1.5 billion.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Aug 21, 2019 16:57:07 GMT
Yes, because backlash from TLJ lessened interest in the product. 'Social Justice Warrior' types normally have brightly colored hair styles such as purple to draw attention to themselves and tell a person what it is that they are for politically and socially on the surface level so if one agrees they are welcome to say hi if not they should keep their mouths shut. It would be a different story for most who see it this way(pandering) if Holdo were a better character that was more likeable and willing to give every and any one person their chance to speak instead of barking orders at Poe and shutting him down(which did more harm than good). She was a very stereotypical character. Most of the movie Poe is talked down to and treated like an incompetent dolt, Finn spends most of the movie acting awkward and doing what others want him to do without much to no pause or hesitation, Luke was made into a quitter who abandoned his principles, let his emotions get the better of him and try to kill his own nephew in his sleep and abandoned Rey for real, and then there's Hux who is even more comical in this movie and Kylo Ren who is made into an bigger crybaby who has very violent temper tantrums. That’s a really odd conclusion to come up with. Holdo was given purple hair because they wanted to emphasize how much of a SJW she is? That sounds like the kind of thing you would do if you wanted to make fun of SJWs. It would help if you could clarify what you mean about Poe being treated like an “incompetent dolt”. Also, Finn acting awkward is pretty consistent with his character in TFA. He also managed to kill Captain Phasma (a woman), so I’m not sure what the problem is. As for Luke, his character in the film wasn’t an attempt to make men look bad. Luke was portrayed as being disillusioned with the Jedi because it helped build up conflict for the movie, not because Rian Johnson wanted to shit all over the character. Besides, his sacrifice at the end of the film was treated as a pretty pivotal moment. Finally, Hux was nothing more than a generic Nazi-esque villain in TFA, so him being treated like a joke doesn’t strike me as a big deal, and Kylo Ren was already shown having violent temper tantrums in TFA. That’s the entire point of the character. He’s not supposed to be some big badass like Darth Vader. He’s a very emotional man who desperately wants to be like his grandfather. To to be clear, I’m not saying you’re wrong for disliking TLJ. There are valid reasons to dislike the movie. However, claiming that it was promoting some man-hating agenda is just silly. It may or may not be silly. Let's say it is silly. I myself am not one to scream SJW because something detracts/degrades a male character or something promotes a female character. But like it or not, Rian Johnson made some head-scratching writing decisions that seemed to have invited this argument. 1. How did all of the generals and admirals become female? At the end of TFA, most of the generals and admirals are male. We see them gathered around the command center when they are making plans to blow up Starkiller base. Only Ackbar is among the generals and admirals in TLJ. They all have mysteriously disappeared and been replaced by female leaders. 2. Holdo's in charge. But why? Oh My Aching Ackbar-Raddus! actually brought this up in jest some time ago. But Ackbar is a full admiral and Holdo is a vice admiral. In case you're not familiar with military rank, that means that Ackbar outranks Holdo. So why was she ever in charge in the first place? There were other writing decisions you could make a good argument had nothing to do with gender but have been latched onto by those trying to politicize it. Hux: He was a scheming tattletale in TFA. In TLJ he had a bigger cowardly streak and he was turned into a clueless stooge. Not only did the humor not land but there's no precedent for Imperial military leader being an inept clown. Admiral Ozzel made bad decisions because of being blinded by his own pride and presumptuousness. But even he wasn't a clueless joke. Luke "Jake" Skywalker: You can argue his character was written this way for tension or contrast or backdrop narrative purposes. There's still a dozen reasons why it can fairly be said Rian Johnson went unnecessarily overboard with changing and defaming Luke Skywalker. Rian Johnson was faced with some unfair challenges in writing TLJ to begin with, but these are some examples that were unnecessarily problematic beyond that.
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shinnickneth
Junior Member
@shinnickneth
Posts: 2,514
Likes: 1,782
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Post by shinnickneth on Aug 21, 2019 17:10:26 GMT
Except the talent, the vision, the ability to collaborate with others (be able to work with already established canon, listen to people who have been with the franchise decades longer than himself, etc.), the ability to take the high road, the ability to accept any kind of criticism, etc.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Aug 21, 2019 17:49:41 GMT
That’s a really odd conclusion to come up with. Holdo was given purple hair because they wanted to emphasize how much of a SJW she is? That sounds like the kind of thing you would do if you wanted to make fun of SJWs. It would help if you could clarify what you mean about Poe being treated like an “incompetent dolt”. Also, Finn acting awkward is pretty consistent with his character in TFA. He also managed to kill Captain Phasma (a woman), so I’m not sure what the problem is. As for Luke, his character in the film wasn’t an attempt to make men look bad. Luke was portrayed as being disillusioned with the Jedi because it helped build up conflict for the movie, not because Rian Johnson wanted to shit all over the character. Besides, his sacrifice at the end of the film was treated as a pretty pivotal moment. Finally, Hux was nothing more than a generic Nazi-esque villain in TFA, so him being treated like a joke doesn’t strike me as a big deal, and Kylo Ren was already shown having violent temper tantrums in TFA. That’s the entire point of the character. He’s not supposed to be some big badass like Darth Vader. He’s a very emotional man who desperately wants to be like his grandfather. To to be clear, I’m not saying you’re wrong for disliking TLJ. There are valid reasons to dislike the movie. However, claiming that it was promoting some man-hating agenda is just silly. It may or may not be silly. Let's say it is silly. I myself am not one to scream SJW because something detracts/degrades a male character or something promotes a female character. But like it or not, Rian Johnson made some head-scratching writing decisions that seemed to have invited this argument. 1. How did all of the generals and admirals become female? At the end of TFA, most of the generals and admirals are male. We see them gathered around the command center when they are making plans to blow up Starkiller base. Only Ackbar is among the generals and admirals in TLJ. They all have mysteriously disappeared and been replaced by female leaders. 2. Holdo's in charge. But why? Oh My Aching Ackbar-Raddus! actually brought this up in jest some time ago. But Ackbar is a full admiral and Holdo is a vice admiral. In case you're not familiar with military rank, that means that Ackbar outranks Holdo. So why was she ever in charge in the first place? There were other writing decisions you could make a good argument had nothing to do with gender but have been latched onto by those trying to politicize it. Hux: He was a scheming tattletale in TFA. In TLJ he had a bigger cowardly streak and he was turned into a clueless stooge. Not only did the humor not land but there's no precedent for Imperial military leader being an inept clown. Admiral Ozzel made bad decisions because of being blinded by his own pride and presumptuousness. But even he wasn't a clueless joke. Luke "Jake" Skywalker: You can argue his character was written this way for tension or contrast or backdrop narrative purposes. There's still a dozen reasons why it can fairly be said Rian Johnson went unnecessarily overboard with changing and defaming Luke Skywalker. Rian Johnson was faced with some unfair challenges in writing TLJ to begin with, but these are some examples that were unnecessarily problematic beyond that. As far as Holdo being in charge is concerned, was anyone really expecting Admiral Ackbar to take the reigns? Would people even be able to take him seriously in that role? Admiral Ackbar is pretty much only popular for being a meme.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Aug 21, 2019 18:33:59 GMT
It may or may not be silly. Let's say it is silly. I myself am not one to scream SJW because something detracts/degrades a male character or something promotes a female character. But like it or not, Rian Johnson made some head-scratching writing decisions that seemed to have invited this argument. 1. How did all of the generals and admirals become female? At the end of TFA, most of the generals and admirals are male. We see them gathered around the command center when they are making plans to blow up Starkiller base. Only Ackbar is among the generals and admirals in TLJ. They all have mysteriously disappeared and been replaced by female leaders. 2. Holdo's in charge. But why? Oh My Aching Ackbar-Raddus! actually brought this up in jest some time ago. But Ackbar is a full admiral and Holdo is a vice admiral. In case you're not familiar with military rank, that means that Ackbar outranks Holdo. So why was she ever in charge in the first place? There were other writing decisions you could make a good argument had nothing to do with gender but have been latched onto by those trying to politicize it. Hux: He was a scheming tattletale in TFA. In TLJ he had a bigger cowardly streak and he was turned into a clueless stooge. Not only did the humor not land but there's no precedent for Imperial military leader being an inept clown. Admiral Ozzel made bad decisions because of being blinded by his own pride and presumptuousness. But even he wasn't a clueless joke. Luke "Jake" Skywalker: You can argue his character was written this way for tension or contrast or backdrop narrative purposes. There's still a dozen reasons why it can fairly be said Rian Johnson went unnecessarily overboard with changing and defaming Luke Skywalker. Rian Johnson was faced with some unfair challenges in writing TLJ to begin with, but these are some examples that were unnecessarily problematic beyond that. As far as Holdo being in charge is concerned, was anyone really expecting Admiral Ackbar to take the reigns? Would people even be able to take him seriously in that role? Admiral Ackbar is pretty much only popular for being a meme. Veteran SW fans probably would take him seriously. Have you forgotten that being in charge was his role in ROTJ? And he pulled it off quite well. Ackbar did become a meme in the years following ROTJ but that's only a sidebar to the essence and role of his character. Even if his meme status could've created unintentional humor with some people, I don't see how it's any more risky than having Hux be the clueless butt of jokes and having him "Force rag dolled" over the floor several times in the movie. Rian really needs to leave the comedy writing and decisions to someone else when he makes his upcoming trilogy.
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