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Post by mortsahlfan on Aug 21, 2019 1:19:43 GMT
He's one of my favorite people. He's anti-establishment, a true rebel. But outside of "Citizen Kane", I can't think of any other great movies or acting gigs (and I've seen almost all). To me, his interviews are better than his movies, even though he does the false modest bit, and the annoying "I could give you a false answer or I can tell you the truth" that he uses so much in interviews.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Aug 21, 2019 1:33:25 GMT
But outside of "Citizen Kane", I can't think of any other great movies or acting gigs Well, that's like saying "Is Neil Armstrong overrated as an astronaut? Outside of walking on the moon..." Citizen Kane revolutionized filmmaking and is considered one of the best movies ever made. He could have retired right then and had nothing else to prove. He had some bad luck as a filmmaker, and made enemies from Citizen Kane, which held him back a little creatively. But Touch of Evil is pretty good from a directing standpoint, and he's great as Harry Lime in The Third Man.
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Post by moviemouth on Aug 21, 2019 1:43:02 GMT
He is responsible for making what is often considered the best movie ever made, it wouldn't matter if every movie he made after that was crap (which far and away isn't the case), it would still be understandable to hold him in very high regard.
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Post by ck100 on Aug 21, 2019 2:49:29 GMT
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Post by mslo79 on Aug 21, 2019 5:29:28 GMT
He's overrated, period.
Citizen Kane is overrated for sure as it's no where near as good as critics claim it is. I am confident the common person would not praise it anywhere near how much the critics (over)praise it.
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Post by biker1 on Aug 21, 2019 6:27:05 GMT
He's overrated, period. Citizen Kane is overrated for sure as it's no where near as good as critics claim it is. I am confident the common person would not praise it anywhere near how much the critics (over)praise it. and how many Orson Welles movies have you seen? And stop speaking for other people - you are the last person in the world who has any comprehension of other people and their opinions - you are an ignoramus of the most disturbing kind, regardless of possessing the film taste of a mule. As far as I can tell, you don't even like movies!
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Post by jakesully on Aug 21, 2019 6:39:38 GMT
No way in hell is he overrated. Wasn't he like only in his mid 20s when he directed Citizen Kane?? That is insane.
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Post by mortsahlfan on Aug 21, 2019 12:30:17 GMT
No way in hell is he overrated. Wasn't he like only in his mid 20s when he directed Citizen Kane?? That is insane. Yes, he was very talented, but I think some of his personal problems seemed to get into the way. He didn't fight as hard as Cassavetes to make movies.
Orson said the key to his success was ignorance, and I can understand from other mediums. If you don't know "the rules" you aren't inhibited, and you don't' even know you're breaking them.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Aug 21, 2019 14:42:56 GMT
He's overrated, period. Citizen Kane is overrated for sure as it's no where near as good as critics claim it is. I am confident the common person would not praise it anywhere near how much the critics (over)praise it. That's like saying the common person wouldn't praise Shakespeare. Citizen Kane is as good as critics claim. It established and refined so many aspects of cinema people take for granted. It'd be like saying the Matrix's slow motion effects are overrated.
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Post by mortsahlfan on Aug 21, 2019 14:45:59 GMT
He's overrated, period. Citizen Kane is overrated for sure as it's no where near as good as critics claim it is. I am confident the common person would not praise it anywhere near how much the critics (over)praise it. It'd be like saying the Matrix's slow motion effects are overrated. It is overrated. In fact, so is the entire movie...
I love "Citizen Kane", but not because of any technical achievements or influence -- I like the story of power, and the loss of innocence.
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Post by Dirty Santa PaulsLaugh on Aug 21, 2019 15:06:05 GMT
Welles was certainly a great director who could work in other mediums. He mounted innovative stage productions as well as radio drama like War of the Worlds. But he didn’t like fighting with the studios.
His other great RKO film, The Magnificent Ambersons had an ending different from the one Welles originally wrote when he left the country on a government sponsored mission to South America.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Aug 21, 2019 15:09:30 GMT
Short answer ? NO ! Long answer ? No, Orson Welles is NOT "over-rated" as a director !
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Post by PreachCaleb on Aug 21, 2019 18:07:10 GMT
It'd be like saying the Matrix's slow motion effects are overrated. It is overrated. In fact, so is the entire movie...
I love "Citizen Kane", but not because of any technical achievements or influence -- I like the story of power, and the loss of innocence.
Nah, it's not. It's influence alone is testament to a that. A movie's greatness may extend beyond merely story telling.
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Post by mslo79 on Aug 24, 2019 16:09:25 GMT
PreachCaleb Here is my main problem with that mindset... your basically giving it credit because it's "ahead of it's time", or broke new ground etc, more than it just still being a flat out interesting movie to watch to this day, which should be paramount. because if a movie is not interesting to watch for the viewer, it's ultimately nothing special. hence, it's overrated by critics. so while it's fine to recognize a movie being ahead of it's time or breaking new ground etc... that does not automatically make a movie good on that alone as the movie itself needs to be interesting to watch and in this regard, it's clearly overrated if you base it's general praise by critics vs with what many more average people would say about it and in this regard I am confident it's overrated as there is simply no way the average person (like the masses a whole) likes that movie anywhere near the critics claim to in that it's one of the very top tier movies as go ask a random common person what their favorite movies are, I would not expect to see Citizen Kane mentioned all that often unless they are that type who lists it out of fear of being dissed if they don't kiss up to it. sure, I acknowledge that some people honestly do like it quite a bit but I would be surprised if most people praised it like critics do and are being honest. because when you look at all movies as a whole there are not that many that stand out from the pack and the ones that do are the true gems where as everything else is pretty much just-another-movie sort of thing. biker1 I am primarily speaking of Citizen Kane is overrated and it's safe to say I am not the only person who thinks so. you surely can't say I am wrong here. if you are going to dis me, at least give a decent reason reason WHY you do. it would make your argument against me more credible instead of talking out of your @$$ like you always do about me acting like I am the worst person ever when it comes to movies when it's pretty safe to say I am far from it, I just don't think the vast majority of movies are anything special is all and my ratings of them reflect this fact (hell, look at the masses, even based on this standard it's pretty safe to say the vast majority of movies are nothing special as the ones that are tend to become classics etc). because your dises on me are unfounded as you basically dis me because you don't agree with me is all. but if your going to dis me, at least make a plausible argument as to why. NOTE: ill bet he won't reply to this because he knows I am right and will just continue spouting off at the mouth about me anyways. also, if you think I honestly don't like movies your clearly wrong because here is some basic facts about myself... about 20% of everything I see (i.e. about 1 out of every 5 movies I have seen over the long term) gets a Thumbs Up because I ultimately judge movies based on whether I want to re-watch them or not. so with that in mind it will appear I dislike a lot of movies (since about 80% of everything I have seen ultimately gets a Thumbs Down). but... I will say the majority of what I have seen is at least decent enough not to have wasted my time. so looking at this very basic thing of 'wasting my time or not', I have a decent enough success rate. but like I say movies of any real worth are ones you want to re-watch here and there as the years pass as those that fail that basic test, are ultimately forgettable. my general rating system revolves around that which is well setup as when I rate a movie high it carries more weight than when someone who routinely hands out high scores hands out a 'high score' because after a certain point there must surely become a point for that person to where if they made a list of their favorites, alot of the movies they scored pretty high will ultimately fall short. so basically what I am saying is... some people hand out higher scores than what they truly feel about that movie as something that does not really stand out to that viewer, should not be given a fairly high score.
as for 'speaking for other people'... while I can't speak for everyone, I suspect my guesstimates on what the masses would say (as in their collective voice as a whole) are not far off  (or put it this way... I doubt you could outright say that I am wrong) ; because when topics come up whether a movie is good or not, since movies are ultimately subjective, which means there is really no right or wrong answer, I tend to go with the mindset of whatever the majority of people say is sort of the 'correct' opinion in a way (like if you are going to use a measure to judge whether a movie is ultimately good or not, I tend to go with majority opinion among a wide range of people). so in this regard... I am confident Citizen Kane is not as well liked as critics make it seem as I give more weight to wide opinion than I would critics who mostly just kiss up to the same movies more by movies being 'ahead of their time' etc more than just picking what movies they personally enjoy watching the most. because if someone does not personally like a movie that much, then it's ultimately nothing special for that viewer.
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Post by maya55555 on Aug 24, 2019 19:02:36 GMT
Mr. Welles was brilliant!
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Post by teleadm on Aug 24, 2019 19:47:00 GMT
Over-rated as a peronality maybe, as a director he did what he could with tiny budgets he had in later years.  It didn't hold him back from singing and dancing on The Dean Martin Show and wearing a wig.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 24, 2019 19:56:12 GMT
No
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Post by politicidal on Aug 24, 2019 20:15:57 GMT
I can’t say I loved Citizen Kane or Touch of Evil as a viewing experience. But his technical prowess was undeniable.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Aug 26, 2019 13:17:59 GMT
PreachCaleb Here is my main problem with that mindset... your basically giving it credit because it's "ahead of it's time", or broke new ground etc, more than it just still being a flat out interesting movie to watch to this day, which should be paramount. because if a movie is not interesting to watch for the viewer, it's ultimately nothing special. hence, it's overrated by critics. so while it's fine to recognize a movie being ahead of it's time or breaking new ground etc... that does not automatically make a movie good on that alone as the movie itself needs to be interesting to watch and in this regard, it's clearly overrated if you base it's general praise by critics vs with what many more average people would say about it and in this regard I am confident it's overrated as there is simply no way the average person (like the masses a whole) likes that movie anywhere near the critics claim to in that it's one of the very top tier movies as go ask a random common person what their favorite movies are, I would not expect to see Citizen Kane mentioned all that often unless they are that type who lists it out of fear of being dissed if they don't kiss up to it. sure, I acknowledge that some people honestly do like it quite a bit but I would be surprised if most people praised it like critics do and are being honest. because when you look at all movies as a whole there are not that many that stand out from the pack and the ones that do are the true gems where as everything else is pretty much just-another-movie sort of thing. What would the average person say about Hamlet? Most probably couldn't follow it and would be so distracted wondering what happened to the ghost that they'd miss the themes of madness, power, deception, and betrayal. That wouldn't mean Hamlet is overrated and doesn't tell a great story. Just as it doesn't mean the same thing for Citizen Kane. It's an interesting engaging story told in an interesting engaging way. Overrated is an overrated word. Most people just use it to mean "Others are wrong for liking it more than me."
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Post by marianne48 on Aug 27, 2019 1:40:41 GMT
I'm re-watching Citizen Kane right now. I think I'm more impressed with it now than I've been with previous viewings. Yes, it was ahead of its time. And it still holds its own, IMO, among films of today. Besides its innovative style, it's still very timely, too.
I know Welles was repulsed with the colorization of classic films (the trend at the time of his death). I wonder what his opinion would be regarding CGI.
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