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Post by fatpaul on Aug 29, 2019 16:19:18 GMT
Intermediate eye fossils? Ah I see (pun intended) but I was just replying to your comment of: Which is just plain wrong. But anyhow, here's another reference that explains things far better than I: Carl T Bergstrom - Evolution: (W. W. Norton & Company (21 Nov. 2011)). The bold text is mine as this is the abductive reasoning I mentioned. If all there was was a tornado and a car in a junkyard and no car before the tornado then I could only conclude that the tornado was causal to the manufacture of a car. I could invoke some preternatural cause but then I’d have to have some explanation about this preternatural cause itself which I think would be ridiculously adhoc just to explain some gap in my understanding.
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Post by faustus5 on Aug 29, 2019 17:47:20 GMT
The evidence only special people can access. Which therefore makes it fail to qualify as genuine evidence to anyone with a shred of scientific literacy.
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Post by amyghost on Aug 29, 2019 18:43:47 GMT
You might want to avoid the term 'special people', Arlon. Around here I suspect that's going to be taken as instant pejorative against you  . Not to mention a tad arrogant. Your god and savior claim themselves as being accessible to all, not just to the 'special'. Nothing in your holy documents sets forth the claim that evidence for his/her/its can be had only by certain persons. Of all people I depend less on the evidence of 'special' witnesses in whatever field. You do not get to define what religion means or says. IMDB2.freeforums.net/post/3180503/thread And neither do you, Arlon, though I suspect that may come as news. Perhaps more Bible study on that point could prove helpful to you? More helpful than the self-promotional gambit of linking back to your own OP would be, anyway. Why then, if you don't have much dependence on 'special' witnesses (meaning people who have more expertise in a given field than you do, toward whom you manifest an evident hostility) would you feel confident in the 'special people' whom you think have a keener understanding of scripture (or 'evidence') than the average? You would appear to have even fewer qualms about blatant self-contradiction than Jesus himself did.
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Post by Arlon10 on Aug 29, 2019 21:08:52 GMT
The evidence only special people can access. Which therefore makes it fail to qualify as genuine evidence to anyone with a shred of scientific literacy. Do you know any scientists? It's obvious my opponents here are not.
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Post by Arlon10 on Aug 29, 2019 21:21:59 GMT
And neither do you, Arlon, though I suspect that may come as news. Perhaps more Bible study on that point could prove helpful to you? More helpful than the self-promotional gambit of linking back to your own OP would be, anyway. Why then, if you don't have much dependence on 'special' witnesses (meaning people who have more expertise in a given field than you do, toward whom you manifest an evident hostility) would you feel confident in the 'special people' whom you think have a keener understanding of scripture (or 'evidence') than the average? You would appear to have even fewer qualms about blatant self-contradiction than Jesus himself did. It is impossible to describe the color green to a person blind since before birth, just as it is impossible for you to know what the Bible means.
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Post by goz on Aug 29, 2019 22:42:27 GMT
OK. So a heart lung transplant doesn't happen in your opinion because you were not there to witness it, and the word of thousands of people including the patients themselves, doctors and nurse isn't enough evidence?? You are seriously the stupidest person on here and THAT is really saying something when you look at Heeeeey and Erjenious, and not to mention the rabid fundies who believe in the devil and all his works! If anyone is going to be scammed, it's you, just saying. You are very determined to avoid being scammed by religion, but you are totally dependent. You must have faith in something. For you that is faith in science. The same evidence for religion you reject, you quickly accept if you think it's science. I treat all evidence the same, and for that you call me stupid. How come you believe in Creationism and not heart lung transplants when you have seen neither?
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Post by goz on Aug 29, 2019 22:48:43 GMT
And neither do you, Arlon, though I suspect that may come as news. Perhaps more Bible study on that point could prove helpful to you? More helpful than the self-promotional gambit of linking back to your own OP would be, anyway. Why then, if you don't have much dependence on 'special' witnesses (meaning people who have more expertise in a given field than you do, toward whom you manifest an evident hostility) would you feel confident in the 'special people' whom you think have a keener understanding of scripture (or 'evidence') than the average? You would appear to have even fewer qualms about blatant self-contradiction than Jesus himself did. It is impossible to describe the color green to a person blind since before birth, just as it is impossible for you to know what the Bible means. You always say that. What does it even mean? Are we talking about 'special' people here? Like Dunning Kruger type people, , being the ONLY ones to understand the Bible?
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Post by Arlon10 on Aug 29, 2019 22:53:02 GMT
If anyone is going to be scammed, it's you, just saying. You are very determined to avoid being scammed by religion, but you are totally dependent. You must have faith in something. For you that is faith in science. The same evidence for religion you reject, you quickly accept if you think it's science. I treat all evidence the same, and for that you call me stupid.How come you believe in Creationism and not heart lung transplants when you have seen neither? I do not believe in "creationism." You think I do because you misunderstand the whole color thing.
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Post by thefleetsin on Aug 29, 2019 22:58:44 GMT
by supporting third-party genocide
evolution took a sharp u-turn when israel decided to cash in on america's slash and burn by directing its annual four billion dollar cash check and turn everything into a wasteland only a god could discern as righteous blood-letting never forgetting you only go around once in life so no one ever has to truly learn.
sjw 08/29/19 inspired at this very moment in time as the portal shines beyond the genocide that blinds.
from the 'beguiled series' of poems
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Post by goz on Aug 29, 2019 23:58:31 GMT
How come you believe in Creationism and not heart lung transplants when you have seen neither? I do not believe in "creationism." You think I do because you misunderstand the whole color thing. Do you know what? I can't be bothered with your epic delusional stupidity any more.
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Post by Arlon10 on Aug 30, 2019 0:05:11 GMT
I do not believe in "creationism." You think I do because you misunderstand the whole color thing. Do you know what? I can't be bothered with your epic delusional stupidity any more. Patience at my level of patience is rare.
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Post by faustus5 on Aug 30, 2019 2:40:49 GMT
Which therefore makes it fail to qualify as genuine evidence to anyone with a shred of scientific literacy. Do you know any scientists? It's obvious my opponents here are not. Yes, I do. Kind of desperate to change the subject, aren't you? (Business as usual.)
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Post by faustus5 on Aug 30, 2019 2:44:54 GMT
It is impossible to describe the color green to a person blind since before birth, just as it is impossible for you to know what the Bible means.
The key difference being that a blind person who can't perceive green lives in a world in which people who can perceive green have pragmatic social structures and a support network which make it obvious that they aren't trying to con her, since they aren't. She will have no reason to think they are making shit up. Religious claims are the exact opposite.
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Post by Arlon10 on Aug 30, 2019 7:22:12 GMT
It is impossible to describe the color green to a person blind since before birth, just as it is impossible for you to know what the Bible means.
The key difference being that a blind person who can't perceive green lives in a world in which people who can perceive green have pragmatic social structures and a support network which make it obvious that they aren't trying to con her, since they aren't. She will have no reason to think they are making shit up. Religious claims are the exact opposite.
I don't expect you to admit that you misunderstood religion all your life. However it must be dawning on even you by now that you are plainspoken to a fault.
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Post by faustus5 on Aug 30, 2019 10:10:22 GMT
I don't expect you to admit that you misunderstood religion all your life. I understand religion all too well, having taken courses on the philosophy and psychology of religion, having read scholarly works on the evolution of religion (both physiologically and culturally) and its history. I'm willing to bet my life you have done none of those things and possess so little intellectual curiosity about how the world works that you never, ever will.
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Post by amyghost on Aug 30, 2019 11:24:32 GMT
And neither do you, Arlon, though I suspect that may come as news. Perhaps more Bible study on that point could prove helpful to you? More helpful than the self-promotional gambit of linking back to your own OP would be, anyway. Why then, if you don't have much dependence on 'special' witnesses (meaning people who have more expertise in a given field than you do, toward whom you manifest an evident hostility) would you feel confident in the 'special people' whom you think have a keener understanding of scripture (or 'evidence') than the average? You would appear to have even fewer qualms about blatant self-contradiction than Jesus himself did. It is impossible to describe the color green to a person blind since before birth, just as it is impossible for you to know what the Bible means. Please Arlon--get over yourself. The continual display of amour propre in regard to things biblical is getting just a mite tedious. I could note that it's also impossible to describe to one blinded by their own ego since birth the limitations of that ego, but I fear such an observation would be lost on you. Too blind for truth, perhaps.
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Post by general313 on Aug 30, 2019 14:56:58 GMT
The key difference being that a blind person who can't perceive green lives in a world in which people who can perceive green have pragmatic social structures and a support network which make it obvious that they aren't trying to con her, since they aren't. She will have no reason to think they are making shit up. Religious claims are the exact opposite.
I don't expect you to admit that you misunderstood religion all your life. However it must be dawning on even you by now that you are plainspoken to a fault. One thing clear about religions is that they have a really, really low tolerance for competition. They often have special words in their vocabulary like crusade and jihad.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Aug 30, 2019 16:09:28 GMT
What type of descent or process does the existing fossil record show us, then Arlon? When I went to check my collection of fossils I realized I don't have any. I'll need to see some fossils before I decide what they indicate if anything. I have no need to prove evolution did or did not happen. I believe such need is unhealthy. People lose their objectivity. Second evasion noted.
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Post by Arlon10 on Aug 30, 2019 19:54:24 GMT
I don't expect you to admit that you misunderstood religion all your life. However it must be dawning on even you by now that you are plainspoken to a fault. One thing clear about religions is that they have a really, really low tolerance for competition. They often have special words in their vocabulary like crusade and jihad. While atheists are shining examples of what exactly?
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Post by Arlon10 on Aug 30, 2019 19:58:48 GMT
When I went to check my collection of fossils I realized I don't have any. I'll need to see some fossils before I decide what they indicate if anything. I have no need to prove evolution did or did not happen. I believe such need is unhealthy. People lose their objectivity. Second evasion noted. It's easy. I just stand still and watch you run off. Or perhaps you would like to explain what will make the short RNA chains stop tearing each other apart?
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