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Post by Agent of Chaos on Sept 11, 2019 11:53:12 GMT
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Post by scabab on Sept 11, 2019 12:58:52 GMT
I've still yet to see it myself so I don't know if it was mismarketed but seeing the trailers, they once again seemed to have an emphasis on Xavier and Magneto having some kind of dispute with different recruits on either side.
Something that was done with...I guess all of them to varying extents. Magneto was already the main villain of three of them and it was still there in X-Men 2, First Class and Apocalypse in a way too.
It'll still probably be a while before I see it so I can't watch the video or it'll spoil it but that was my initial impression seeing the trailer.
Then add on to Dark Phoenix having already had a turn in X-Men 3.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Sept 11, 2019 14:00:50 GMT
I've still yet to see it myself so I don't know if it was mismarketed but seeing the trailers, they once again seemed to have an emphasis on Xavier and Magneto having some kind of dispute with different recruits on either side. Something that was done with...I guess all of them to varying extents. Magneto was already the main villain of three of them and it was still there in X-Men 2, First Class and Apocalypse in a way too. It'll still probably be a while before I see it so I can't watch the video or it'll spoil it but that was my initial impression seeing the trailer. Then add on to Dark Phoenix having already had a turn in X-Men 3. Don’t worry. Magneto doesn’t show up over halfway through the movie. He has only 13 minutes of screen time and not much is done with him as far as being an antagonist goes.
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Post by politicidal on Sept 11, 2019 15:14:04 GMT
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Post by Lord Death Man on Sept 11, 2019 15:45:23 GMT
I can't help but feel that even though essays like these, as thoughtful and thorough as they are, still only add up to excuses for why this film failed to perform. Beyond being misleading, the film's early marketing is just terrible. Having worked briefly in a marketing-adjacent role for movies and television, here is the thing about "misleading marketing." Marketers typically turn to misdirection when the product they are trying to promote is a dog. As conceived, Dark Phoenix is not a strong film. It's dull, self-important, and underwhelming. The marketers could not have marketed the movie on that basis and expected a huge turnout. Truth in advertising would have likely hurt this film more than the misleading advertising. Anyone who believes otherwise is deceiving themselves. Contrary to this person's statements, when Disney took over the marketing of the film, they positioned it as the last chapter in the X-Men saga, which at that point it indeed was. It was literally the Fox X-Men Endgame. If Disney were hoping people would get caught up in Endgame-style nostalgia, who can blame them? The only thing they had to work with was that DP was the last installment in the series. If a movie falls flat at the box office, you can only partially blame it on bad marketing. If the film is good enough, those who saw it and liked it tend to advocate for it with others. This can sometimes cause a groundswell. All Dark Phoenix fans said to everyone is that it's not as bad as they're saying. That's not the same as being good. I've never seen diehard fans work so hard to promote a movie's perceived status from bad to mediocre. What is the functional difference? What is the value proposition for the moviegoer? See DP, it was mediocre AF? The movement to save the reputation of this film strikes me as disingenuous. It puts the blame for the film's many shortcomings on everyone and everything except for the people who were chiefly responsible --- the filmmakers. Blaming moviegoers and critics for not remembering minor events and specific dialogue from another film in the series is not a viable strategy for defending the current movie. People remember those moments in Marvel movies because they resonate. With the X-Men series, those moments usually are clichéd filler, or they meant to rectify some past error within the series. And are we really saying that because Kinberg lifted dialogue from T2 almost verbatim, I should believe the X-Men films are better than they are?
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Sept 11, 2019 19:10:40 GMT
I can't help but feel that even though essays like these, as thoughtful and thorough as they are, still only add up to excuses for why this film failed to perform. The video was purely discussing critical reception with no mentioning of Box Office other than the fact that the studio mis-marketed it because they knew the film would get buried in the summer by all the competition. I dunno. As mentioned in the video the movie was made to be a psychological thriller about a woman going through something many people have to deal with in real life(mental illness). How is showing the movie is about Jean going evil(again) more interesting than showing that she is having a relatable struggle? Representation has helped some superhero films. I’ve seen people who are familiar with mental health issues and dealing with trauma really like the movie. Though that would not have been a strong enough draw for a summer release. Saying: “The X-Men’s final battle will be their greatest” is promoting it as a grand finale and will have loads of spectacle even though it was made to cut back on spectacle. Actually, the video blames the marketing campaign. I mean no offense but you are making a serious strawman here.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Sept 15, 2019 6:19:42 GMT
I can't help but feel that even though essays like these, as thoughtful and thorough as they are, still only add up to excuses for why this film failed to perform. The video was purely discussing critical reception with no mentioning of Box Office other than the fact that the studio mis-marketed it because they knew the film would get buried in the summer by all the competition. I dunno. As mentioned in the video the movie was made to be a psychological thriller about a woman going through something many people have to deal with in real life(mental illness). How is showing the movie is about Jean going evil(again) more interesting than showing that she is having a relatable struggle? Representation has helped some superhero films. I’ve seen people who are familiar with mental health issues and dealing with trauma really like the movie. Though that would not have been a strong enough draw for a summer release. Saying: “The X-Men’s final battle will be their greatest” is promoting it as a grand finale and will have loads of spectacle even though it was made to cut back on spectacle. Actually, the video blames the marketing campaign. I mean no offense but you are making a serious strawman here. I hope you're only unintentionally being facetious here. A story about a hero turned villain is far more likely to gain traction with genre fans than a hapless tale of a young girl suddenly afflicted with mental illness. You can't randomly choose a group and decide to represent them with your film and expect audiences to be instantly grateful and interested. The choice to advocate for a group or cause has to mesh with the material organically and not be some outsized statement of virtue signaling. The source material, which even the most casual fans are familiar with by now, goes out of its way to show a formerly "good" character break bad. That wasn't an unreasonable expectation for this film. Deciding to make Dark Phoenix into a smaller character piece was synonymous with blatantly disregarding the scope and scale of the source material. And for what? To keep the material "grounded?" Selling the film as their "greatest battle" was misrepresentative, but attempting to market the movie as a half-baked mental health PSA would have been disastrous. What does Dark Phoenix do to change the perception of mental illness stereotypes in popular media? Jean behaves violently and is rendered childlike because of her condition. Standard treatment is dismissed as being of no use to her and recovery, for whatever reason, is entirely out of her reach. She literally has to isolate herself from everyone by the end of the film. These are all standard tropes of mental illness in movies. Turner may have acted it well but, DP isn't a revelation in the portrayal of mental illness in cinema. Yes, the video may blame the marketing campaign. YOU, however, are always quick to point out who forgot some obscure plot point or piece of dialogue from films that go as far back as five years ago.
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Post by darkpast on Sept 15, 2019 6:26:55 GMT
Edge of Tomorrow may have had the worst, 3 title changes during its release
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Post by Lord Death Man on Sept 15, 2019 18:13:33 GMT
Edge of Tomorrow may have had the worst, 3 title changes during its release They should have named it All You Need is Kill.
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Post by ThatGuy on Sept 16, 2019 22:59:27 GMT
Okay, if the movie was marketed as it was suppose to be, do you think it wouldn't have failed? People still wouldn't have gone to see it because it wouldn't have been the movie they wanted.
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Post by ThatGuy on Sept 16, 2019 23:03:55 GMT
And are we really saying that because Kinberg lifted dialogue from T2 almost verbatim, I should believe the X-Men films are better than they are? Hey... Remember that time I...
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Post by blockbusted on Sept 16, 2019 23:57:30 GMT
You think THAT film had the worst marketing? Just take a look at THIS:
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Sept 17, 2019 22:35:07 GMT
A story about a hero turned villain is far more likely to gain traction with genre fans than a hapless tale of a young girl suddenly afflicted with mental illness. That only works if you’ve seen them as a hero first and if it was advertised as it was suppose to be you wouldn’t have people calling it The Last Stand 2.0. Interesting that you say that. Because it wasn’t really random. It’s somewhat rooted in the source material. I wouldn’t say half-baked. A follow-up video has been done on that subject. Treatment wasn’t really dismissed Jean just avoided it. Xavier offered her help and Jean’s condition got better once she looked through Xavier’s mind.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Sept 17, 2019 23:17:18 GMT
Okay, if the movie was marketed as it was suppose to be, do you think it wouldn't have failed? People still wouldn't have gone to see it because it wouldn't have been the movie they wanted. You wouldn’t have people saying “been there done that” at least. But I still think it would have failed. It was released in a very competitive time and was under-promoted.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Sept 18, 2019 20:36:35 GMT
A story about a hero turned villain is far more likely to gain traction with genre fans than a hapless tale of a young girl suddenly afflicted with mental illness. That only works if you’ve seen them as a hero first and if it was advertised as it was suppose to be you wouldn’t have people calling it The Last Stand 2.0. Interesting that you say that. Because it wasn’t really random. It’s somewhat rooted in the source material. I wouldn’t say half-baked. A follow-up video has been done on that subject. Treatment wasn’t really dismissed Jean just avoided it. Xavier offered her help and Jean’s condition got better once she looked through Xavier’s mind. I don't think anything could have prevented people from calling the film The Last Stand 2.0. Given the lackluster response to The Last Stand, it wasn't unreasonable to assume that Dark Phoenix would more accurately adapt the source material. I don't believe that marketing that leaned into the mental health aspects of the film would have altered that perception amongst those who do not follow industry news. What other reason would there have been to revisit the material if not for a do-over of some kind? In the source material, Jean's mental illness is not random or sudden. It happens over time and results in a steady deterioration of her mental state. I can't say the same for the films. I don't think Dark Phoenix does all that much to represent people with mental illness or make any statement about the topic one way or the other. Yes, Jean is emotionally disturbed in the film due to past trauma, but the film itself doesn't acknowledge this in any meaningful way. Sight unseen, a movie like the upcoming Joker seems to handle the topic in a way that resonates.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Nov 12, 2019 3:03:00 GMT
Next video is coming up soon. The script is already finished.
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Post by politicidal on Nov 12, 2019 3:22:42 GMT
You think THAT film had the worst marketing? Just take a look at THIS: Now when the first trailer dropped, that one with the song, I think the Trekkies overreacted.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Nov 12, 2019 4:40:00 GMT
I watched Dark Phoenix last weekend. Sadly, there isn’t much there. Even the special effects are mundane. Too bad, because I liked most X-Men movies. I was conflicted when I first viewing but enjoyed it more on repeated views. I actually thought the effects were pretty good overall. Especially, the stuff involving the Phoenix.
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Post by hobowar on Nov 14, 2019 4:28:02 GMT
Joker could have been called "Dark Phoenix."
Ba Dum Tss!
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