ryboto
Sophomore
@ryboto
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Post by ryboto on Apr 24, 2017 17:52:03 GMT
The fight against the trooper who calls him out with the melee weapon SHOWS you he's competent with the sabre. This implies he has some experience. He murders a trooper on the way to that fight. The whole problem here is that we didn't care, and now, we kind of do. If 90% of the troops were kidnapped and brainwashed, I absolutely care! It's actually pretty fricken terrible! Finn, instead of abstaining and running from the fight like Rey, ACTIVELY ENGAGES. It just doesn't jive with his background, but it enables an action sequence? Establishes he can sort of handle a sabre so that we aren't so taken aback later when he fights Kylo? If he were to have had character development, he'd have maybe not been keen on killing, but instead, disabling, and then maybe there would have been a scene where he tried to snap one of the soldiers out of it....maybe he'd find it impossible, and then when he lets his guard down, the trooper tries to kill him and he has to kill in self defense...he's torn, but he had to do it. TOTALLY would have given Finn more depth, changed the tone of his ridiculously useless character. Rey wasn't running from the fight. She was running from her destiny. But then she was running from Kylo because... "Shit I left that lightsaber behind." But why should we care that he isn't disabling them instead of killing them? That's like thinking that they shouldn't kill Terminators because they were programmed to kill humans. It's not their fault. The First Order Stormtroopers are programmed to kill whoever they are told to kill. Should they have had him say a prayer that he shouldn't know every time he shot a Stormtrooper? All he knew is that they wanted to kill him so he had to survive. If your neighbors turned into zombies, would you shoot them in the knees or kill them? It's not their fault they became zombies. But Terminators were built to kill. The FO soldiers are just like every other New Republic citizen, except they're forced against their will...shouldn't this be a focal point? I don't think you're getting it. Obviously the brainwashing can break, so this is utterly different than the analogies you've mentioned. EVEN IF Finn was a one-off, the progression I suggested is one of many different ways they could have shown us he isn't a mindless killer like everyone else. Instead he goes balls to the walls to kill soldiers because...revenge...for brainwashing? Shouldn't his anger be focused at Phasma and the higher ranking officers? Finn, makes zero sense. We could have had him be ANYTHING else before meeting Rey, and you could still get the bumbling sidekick that he's turned into later on. In fact, the only thing significant about Finn being a FO trooper is that it serves as another on the long list of plot contrivances, this one existing so he can save Poe. The only other thing we learn is that the soldiers are all brainwashed, but as myself and others have stated, that's a fact that's of zero consequence.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 24, 2017 18:05:49 GMT
The fight against the trooper who calls him out with the melee weapon SHOWS you he's competent with the sabre. This implies he has some experience. He murders a trooper on the way to that fight. The whole problem here is that we didn't care, and now, we kind of do. If 90% of the troops were kidnapped and brainwashed, I absolutely care! It's actually pretty fricken terrible! Finn, instead of abstaining and running from the fight like Rey, ACTIVELY ENGAGES. It just doesn't jive with his background, but it enables an action sequence? Establishes he can sort of handle a sabre so that we aren't so taken aback later when he fights Kylo? If he were to have had character development, he'd have maybe not been keen on killing, but instead, disabling, and then maybe there would have been a scene where he tried to snap one of the soldiers out of it....maybe he'd find it impossible, and then when he lets his guard down, the trooper tries to kill him and he has to kill in self defense...he's torn, but he had to do it. TOTALLY would have given Finn more depth, changed the tone of his ridiculously useless character. Rey wasn't running from the fight. She was running from her destiny. But then she was running from Kylo because... "Shit I left that lightsaber behind." But why should we care that he isn't disabling them instead of killing them? That's like thinking that they shouldn't kill Terminators because they were programmed to kill humans. It's not their fault. The First Order Stormtroopers are programmed to kill whoever they are told to kill. Should they have had him say a prayer that he shouldn't know every time he shot a Stormtrooper? All he knew is that they wanted to kill him so he had to survive. If your neighbors turned into zombies, would you shoot them in the knees or kill them? It's not their fault they became zombies. Because it contradicts what we saw from Finn at the very start of the movie. He actually stopped in battle to try and help one of his dying colleagues, he was the only one who was affected by seeing his teammates die. Then thereafter he basically has manic fits over slaughtering them or seeing them slaughtered. That's just bad writing.
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Post by ThatGuy on Apr 24, 2017 18:20:56 GMT
Rey wasn't running from the fight. She was running from her destiny. But then she was running from Kylo because... "Shit I left that lightsaber behind." But why should we care that he isn't disabling them instead of killing them? That's like thinking that they shouldn't kill Terminators because they were programmed to kill humans. It's not their fault. The First Order Stormtroopers are programmed to kill whoever they are told to kill. Should they have had him say a prayer that he shouldn't know every time he shot a Stormtrooper? All he knew is that they wanted to kill him so he had to survive. If your neighbors turned into zombies, would you shoot them in the knees or kill them? It's not their fault they became zombies. But Terminators were built to kill. The FO soldiers are just like every other New Republic citizen, except they're forced against their will...shouldn't this be a focal point? I don't think you're getting it. Obviously the brainwashing can break, so this is utterly different than the analogies you've mentioned. EVEN IF Finn was a one-off, the progression I suggested is one of many different ways they could have shown us he isn't a mindless killer like everyone else. Instead he goes balls to the walls to kill soldiers because...revenge...for brainwashing? Shouldn't his anger be focused at Phasma and the higher ranking officers? Finn, makes zero sense. We could have had him be ANYTHING else before meeting Rey, and you could still get the bumbling sidekick that he's turned into later on. In fact, the only thing significant about Finn being a FO trooper is that it serves as another on the long list of plot contrivances, this one existing so he can save Poe. The only other thing we learn is that the soldiers are all brainwashed, but as myself and others have stated, that's a fact that's of zero consequence. No, the Force Order Stormtroopers were taken as kids. They weren't adults that were kidnapped off the streets. And no, he isn't killing them just because. They are in a battle. People are killing each other. The only one you can say would be a revenge kill was Phasma. And she was the only one he showed anger toward. Everyone else he showed fear and maybe determination. You just gave the reason for him being what he was. There needs to be a way for him to link up with the Resistance (Poe). So saving Poe, getting BB8 to the Resistance, and having knowledge of the Starkiller Base puts him in the middle of things. Him being random guy that happens to be there wouldn't do that would it? Nothing else would have had him having knowledge of Starkiller Base. He would have had to be something connected to Starkiller. That means he's in the First Order. Being an officer means that he believes in what they are doing. Only thing left is being a faceless grunt. Gasp! Stormtrooper.
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Post by ThatGuy on Apr 24, 2017 18:28:54 GMT
Rey wasn't running from the fight. She was running from her destiny. But then she was running from Kylo because... "Shit I left that lightsaber behind." But why should we care that he isn't disabling them instead of killing them? That's like thinking that they shouldn't kill Terminators because they were programmed to kill humans. It's not their fault. The First Order Stormtroopers are programmed to kill whoever they are told to kill. Should they have had him say a prayer that he shouldn't know every time he shot a Stormtrooper? All he knew is that they wanted to kill him so he had to survive. If your neighbors turned into zombies, would you shoot them in the knees or kill them? It's not their fault they became zombies. Because it contradicts what we saw from Finn at the very start of the movie. He actually stopped in battle to try and help one of his dying colleagues, he was the only one who was affected by seeing his teammates die. Then thereafter he basically has manic fits over slaughtering them or seeing them slaughtered. That's just bad writing. You mean the people trying to kill him? The ones he was afraid of? Being happy that there is one less person trying to kill him?
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Post by audiosane on Apr 24, 2017 18:32:31 GMT
Wow... they actually have something like The Basher's Sanctuary... at TheForce.net? Hmm. Thanks for the heads up. During the prequel era they had to open it up to contain all the angry posts in one thread. They shut it down shortly after ROTS and had to reopen it briefly after TFA. Well, shittt.... I know where I'm going this December!
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 24, 2017 18:38:29 GMT
Because it contradicts what we saw from Finn at the very start of the movie. He actually stopped in battle to try and help one of his dying colleagues, he was the only one who was affected by seeing his teammates die. Then thereafter he basically has manic fits over slaughtering them or seeing them slaughtered. That's just bad writing. You mean the people trying to kill him? The ones he was afraid of? Being happy that there is one less person trying to kill him? Since when was he so afraid of his fellow Stormtroopers other than possibly his confrontation with TR8R? The irony is he is the most gleeful person about killing them. Not Rey who grew up thinking the Empire to be a repressive regime. Not Han Solo who has hated the Empire back before the events of ANH. Even more gleeful than Poe who was beaten and tortured by them!... Like I said, bad writing.
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Post by ThatGuy on Apr 24, 2017 18:45:57 GMT
You mean the people trying to kill him? The ones he was afraid of? Being happy that there is one less person trying to kill him? Since when was he so afraid of his fellow Stormtroopers other than possibly his confrontation with TR8R? The irony is he is the most gleeful person about killing them. Not Rey who grew up thinking the Empire to be a repressive regime. Not Han Solo who has hated the Empire back before the events of ANH. Even more gleeful than Poe who was beaten and tortured by them!... Like I said, bad writing. Because of what he saw them do on his first mission out? They shot villagers and used flame throwers on them. You gotta remember that he knew them, but he wasn't one of them. They were the soldiers. They went out and did that on a regular. He worked in sanitation. He didn't go out and kill regularly. And there was no glee in killing them. He wasn't laughing maniacally because he was killing them. He did show joy in hitting a target.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 24, 2017 19:08:29 GMT
Since when was he so afraid of his fellow Stormtroopers other than possibly his confrontation with TR8R? The irony is he is the most gleeful person about killing them. Not Rey who grew up thinking the Empire to be a repressive regime. Not Han Solo who has hated the Empire back before the events of ANH. Even more gleeful than Poe who was beaten and tortured by them!... Like I said, bad writing. Because of what he saw them do on his first mission out? They shot villagers and used flame throwers on them. You gotta remember that he knew them, but he wasn't one of them. They were the soldiers. They went out and did that on a regular. He worked in sanitation. He didn't go out and kill regularly. And there was no glee in killing them. He wasn't laughing maniacally because he was killing them. He did show joy in hitting a target. First of all who says he was the only one whom was pulled from sanitation or that was their first assignment? That's not specified in the movie. And if he was then that comes off as very contrived, which is another sign of bad writing. Secondly if he wasn't one of them why was he the only Stormtrooper upset at seeing one of his fellow troopers die? (It was rumored that they deleted a scene where Finn crossed paths with a villager none of the other Stormtroopers saw. Instead of shooting them he just let them go. That would've been more consistent with his character. But I can only guess that they went with trooper smearing blood on Finn because they thought it was more dramatic. Screw the character development). Bad writing. Thirdly he certainly had a satisfied expression on his face when shooting up Stormtroopers from the TIE fighter. He looked like a guy getting off on racking up points and killing enemies in a video game! He certainly turned into the manic cheerleader when Poe was gunning down Stormtroopers! The only one on that entire battlefield to do so. (It wasn't like he was feeding off of other people's behavior). Was anyone else in TFA expressing their joy over these kinds of events as much as Finn?
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ryboto
Sophomore
@ryboto
Posts: 776
Likes: 724
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Post by ryboto on Apr 24, 2017 19:32:00 GMT
But Terminators were built to kill. The FO soldiers are just like every other New Republic citizen, except they're forced against their will...shouldn't this be a focal point? I don't think you're getting it. Obviously the brainwashing can break, so this is utterly different than the analogies you've mentioned. EVEN IF Finn was a one-off, the progression I suggested is one of many different ways they could have shown us he isn't a mindless killer like everyone else. Instead he goes balls to the walls to kill soldiers because...revenge...for brainwashing? Shouldn't his anger be focused at Phasma and the higher ranking officers? Finn, makes zero sense. We could have had him be ANYTHING else before meeting Rey, and you could still get the bumbling sidekick that he's turned into later on. In fact, the only thing significant about Finn being a FO trooper is that it serves as another on the long list of plot contrivances, this one existing so he can save Poe. The only other thing we learn is that the soldiers are all brainwashed, but as myself and others have stated, that's a fact that's of zero consequence. No, the Force Order Stormtroopers were taken as kids. They weren't adults that were kidnapped off the streets. And no, he isn't killing them just because. They are in a battle. People are killing each other. The only one you can say would be a revenge kill was Phasma. And she was the only one he showed anger toward. Everyone else he showed fear and maybe determination. You just gave the reason for him being what he was. There needs to be a way for him to link up with the Resistance (Poe). So saving Poe, getting BB8 to the Resistance, and having knowledge of the Starkiller Base puts him in the middle of things. Him being random guy that happens to be there wouldn't do that would it? Nothing else would have had him having knowledge of Starkiller Base. He would have had to be something connected to Starkiller. That means he's in the First Order. Being an officer means that he believes in what they are doing. Only thing left is being a faceless grunt. Gasp! Stormtrooper. Yes, free children are equivalent to free citizens of the rest of the galaxy...what I said stands. He charged into conflict. He wasn't conflicted about it. He went from scared and afraid, BECAUSE of killing, to killing out of anger or vengeance. Which, is utterly contradictory. Why does there need to be a way for him to link up? Because plot? Why can't the characters lead the plot, instead of the shitty plot leading the characters into 1-dimensional boxes? He knows very little of SK base that the Resistance plans didn't already contain. Why would ever FO officer have detailed information about the entire base anyway? Contrivance. It's the theme of the movie. Disney Princess Contrivance. You're describing the chain of events as if they're the only logical way it could happen. Oddly enough the level of detail you go into(not much) is about what we get from the rushed film. In fact, there are any number of ways Finn could have been made actually useful to the plot, and all the while he could have actually had an arc, instead of a devolution.
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Post by audiosane on Apr 24, 2017 20:11:46 GMT
Wait, speaking of Batman: My god, I'm so disappointed I overlooked this post until now. Hadn't seen HISHE vids in a while. Thanks for the good laughs.
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Post by ThatGuy on Apr 25, 2017 14:42:15 GMT
Because of what he saw them do on his first mission out? They shot villagers and used flame throwers on them. You gotta remember that he knew them, but he wasn't one of them. They were the soldiers. They went out and did that on a regular. He worked in sanitation. He didn't go out and kill regularly. And there was no glee in killing them. He wasn't laughing maniacally because he was killing them. He did show joy in hitting a target. First of all who says he was the only one whom was pulled from sanitation or that was their first assignment? That's not specified in the movie. And if he was then that comes off as very contrived, which is another sign of bad writing. Secondly if he wasn't one of them why was he the only Stormtrooper upset at seeing one of his fellow troopers die? (It was rumored that they deleted a scene where Finn crossed paths with a villager none of the other Stormtroopers saw. Instead of shooting them he just let them go. That would've been more consistent with his character. But I can only guess that they went with trooper smearing blood on Finn because they thought it was more dramatic. Screw the character development). Bad writing. Thirdly he certainly had a satisfied expression on his face when shooting up Stormtroopers from the TIE fighter. He looked like a guy getting off on racking up points and killing enemies in a video game! He certainly turned into the manic cheerleader when Poe was gunning down Stormtroopers! The only one on that entire battlefield to do so. (It wasn't like he was feeding off of other people's behavior). Was anyone else in TFA expressing their joy over these kinds of events as much as Finn? Finn said it was his first time out. And how is that contrived? Or they went with blood smearing because it was now an identifier. You know who he is from the other nameless, faceless, drones. You mean those Stormtroopers trying to kill him? and Poe as they are escaping. Also, you guys cry about some of that mental conditioning seeping through. There you go. And where is this joy you are talking about? The only joy I see is when they took out the turbo lasers.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 26, 2017 1:59:49 GMT
First of all who says he was the only one whom was pulled from sanitation or that was their first assignment? That's not specified in the movie. And if he was then that comes off as very contrived, which is another sign of bad writing. Secondly if he wasn't one of them why was he the only Stormtrooper upset at seeing one of his fellow troopers die? (It was rumored that they deleted a scene where Finn crossed paths with a villager none of the other Stormtroopers saw. Instead of shooting them he just let them go. That would've been more consistent with his character. But I can only guess that they went with trooper smearing blood on Finn because they thought it was more dramatic. Screw the character development). Bad writing. Thirdly he certainly had a satisfied expression on his face when shooting up Stormtroopers from the TIE fighter. He looked like a guy getting off on racking up points and killing enemies in a video game! He certainly turned into the manic cheerleader when Poe was gunning down Stormtroopers! The only one on that entire battlefield to do so. (It wasn't like he was feeding off of other people's behavior). Was anyone else in TFA expressing their joy over these kinds of events as much as Finn? Finn said it was his first time out. And how is that contrived? Or they went with blood smearing because it was now an identifier. You know who he is from the other nameless, faceless, drones. You mean those Stormtroopers trying to kill him? and Poe as they are escaping. Also, you guys cry about some of that mental conditioning seeping through. There you go. And where is this joy you are talking about? The only joy I see is when they took out the turbo lasers. - How is it contrived? Because why you choose a Stormtrooper who has no combat experience for one of the most crucial missions of the First Order? Finding a map that would lead you to the last Jedi? And if that's your policy to do such things, then why is only one guy a first timer?... contrived. - So they used a scene contradictory to his character just to make it easy to visually identify him... Maybe they could've had the villager in the deleted scene hit Finn with a thrown piece of food. Maybe they could've had an explosion go off that visibly damaged his armor distinguishing him from the other Stormtroopers. Or maybe we just would've known the difference by his contrasting actions and behavior. (And that's off the top of my head). Bad writing! - Mental conditioning seeping through on his own colleagues?!? That would be like Emperor Palpatine executing Order 66 and a few of the Clonetroopers deciding that they instantly needed to kill Emperor Palpatine! - Finn may not be joyful in expression but he clearly has that look of a video game player getting off on points kills! Ironically I had never seen that YouTube video you posted before and someone made the very same observation I did in the comments section!!
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Post by Nightman on Apr 26, 2017 3:28:45 GMT
Not to mention, he joined the Stormtroopers as a child, and he appears to be somewhere in his mid-20s. It would be very odd if this really was his first time out in the field. That's why I think this was just his first time in battle, but not out completely.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Apr 26, 2017 9:05:39 GMT
Finn said it was his first time out. And how is that contrived? And where is this joy you are talking about? The only joy I see is when they took out the turbo lasers. - Finn may not be joyful in expression but he clearly has that look of a video game player getting off on points kills! Ironically I had never seen that YouTube video you posted before and someone made the very same observation I did in the comments section!!
next to the racial stereotyping and incongruent character writing, Finn's amorality of shooting his comrades (he grew up with and who were abducted as kids like him) without hesitation or conflict, and even with triumph, is one of the criticisms against the writing and execution of this character.
From the top of my head:
- "did you see that, did you see that" when hitting enemy targets - cries of triumph when hitting the Tie with the Falcon turret on Jakku - cheerleader-like triumph (what a pilot!!!) when best-buddy-ever-I-just-met Poe shoots 10+ Ties and countless ground troop soldiers in a few seconds - "I'm in charge Phasma, im in charge, Im in charge"
These characters seem to have a video game like black and white switch built into them.
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Post by ThatGuy on Apr 26, 2017 13:35:28 GMT
- How is it contrived? Because why you choose a Stormtrooper who has no combat experience for one of the most crucial missions of the First Order? Finding a map that would lead you to the last Jedi? And if that's your policy to do such things, then why is only one guy a first timer?... contrived. - So they used a scene contradictory to his character just to make it easy to visually identify him... Maybe they could've had the villager in the deleted scene hit Finn with a thrown piece of food. Maybe they could've had an explosion go off that visibly damaged his armor distinguishing him from the other Stormtroopers. Or maybe we just would've known the difference by his contrasting actions and behavior. (And that's off the top of my head). Bad writing! - Mental conditioning seeping through on his own colleagues?!? That would be like Emperor Palpatine executing Order 66 and a few of the Clonetroopers deciding that they instantly needed to kill Emperor Palpatine! - Finn may not be joyful in expression but he clearly has that look of a video game player getting off on points kills! Ironically I had never seen that YouTube video you posted before and someone made the very same observation I did in the comments section!! Maybe because they were pulling people from other places and his name came up for the assignment. And the mission really wasn't crucial for the Stormtroopers because all they were there for was to kill some villagers. They weren't going into battle against the Resistance. Or they could have done exactly what they did and it would have come out the same. Good writing. Yes. See you are only thinking about the obeying First Order officers or whatever. There's also the conditioning that has them want to fight while in a battle. Bloodlust. Finn didn't like what they had to do. He was watching his fellow Stormtroopers slaughter a village. He saw a fellow Stormtrooper killed. Didn't want that for himself. He saw Kylo Ren cut down an old man. The First Order was not right. He had to get away. That part of the conditioning was gone. He had to get away, he had to survive. He also wasn't being personally attacked. But when he was being attacked he went into fight mode. He had the look of someone getting off on kill points?
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 26, 2017 16:04:39 GMT
- How is it contrived? Because why you choose a Stormtrooper who has no combat experience for one of the most crucial missions of the First Order? Finding a map that would lead you to the last Jedi? And if that's your policy to do such things, then why is only one guy a first timer?... contrived. - So they used a scene contradictory to his character just to make it easy to visually identify him... Maybe they could've had the villager in the deleted scene hit Finn with a thrown piece of food. Maybe they could've had an explosion go off that visibly damaged his armor distinguishing him from the other Stormtroopers. Or maybe we just would've known the difference by his contrasting actions and behavior. (And that's off the top of my head). Bad writing! - Mental conditioning seeping through on his own colleagues?!? That would be like Emperor Palpatine executing Order 66 and a few of the Clonetroopers deciding that they instantly needed to kill Emperor Palpatine! - Finn may not be joyful in expression but he clearly has that look of a video game player getting off on points kills! Ironically I had never seen that YouTube video you posted before and someone made the very same observation I did in the comments section!! Maybe because they were pulling people from other places and his name came up for the assignment. And the mission really wasn't crucial for the Stormtroopers because all they were there for was to kill some villagers. They weren't going into battle against the Resistance. Or they could have done exactly what they did and it would have come out the same. Good writing. Yes. See you are only thinking about the obeying First Order officers or whatever. There's also the conditioning that has them want to fight while in a battle. Bloodlust. Finn didn't like what they had to do. He was watching his fellow Stormtroopers slaughter a village. He saw a fellow Stormtrooper killed. Didn't want that for himself. He saw Kylo Ren cut down an old man. The First Order was not right. He had to get away. That part of the conditioning was gone. He had to get away, he had to survive. He also wasn't being personally attacked. But when he was being attacked he went into fight mode. He had the look of someone getting off on kill points? Yeah really! Like I said I'm not the only one who saw it that way. It's documented right in the comments section of that YouTube video. So spare me the lame comeback as if I was off base. - Your ability to make stuff up that's not onscreen or even suggested onscreen to explain this bad writing knows no limits! But it doesn't surprise me because it's the only defense TFA/Rey fans can come up with (that and the misogyny accusation). That's all that you can turn to once the logic and credibility of your arguments fall apart... and they always do! - Maybe Finn's name was pulled from other places? They just pulled his name out of hat?!? (Bad writing). - The mission wasn't crucial for Stormtroopers? How did they know that only villagers would be there? Supposed all the villagers were armed? (Some of them were). Supposed that they crossed paths with the Resistance? (They in fact did by way of Poe). You're just going to take that chance of losing the skirmish with totally inexperienced Stormtroopers?!? A mission that will secure something that you're obsessed with obtaining?!? (And please don't say something stupid like Kylo and Hux and Snoke weren't obsessed with it!).... Bad writing! - If those troopers had bloodlust training that was stronger than programming to be loyal and obedient to the First Order then those Stormtroopers would be going rogue all the time! Then it wouldn't make since for TR8R to scream "Traitor!" at Finn. He would've just said "Come on!" or let out a battle yell or something.... Bad theory (on your part) to try and defend bad writing!
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Post by ThatGuy on Apr 26, 2017 21:07:56 GMT
Maybe because they were pulling people from other places and his name came up for the assignment. And the mission really wasn't crucial for the Stormtroopers because all they were there for was to kill some villagers. They weren't going into battle against the Resistance. Or they could have done exactly what they did and it would have come out the same. Good writing. Yes. See you are only thinking about the obeying First Order officers or whatever. There's also the conditioning that has them want to fight while in a battle. Bloodlust. Finn didn't like what they had to do. He was watching his fellow Stormtroopers slaughter a village. He saw a fellow Stormtrooper killed. Didn't want that for himself. He saw Kylo Ren cut down an old man. The First Order was not right. He had to get away. That part of the conditioning was gone. He had to get away, he had to survive. He also wasn't being personally attacked. But when he was being attacked he went into fight mode. He had the look of someone getting off on kill points? Yeah really! Like I said I'm not the only one who saw it that way. It's documented right in the comments section of that YouTube video. So spare me the lame comeback as if I was off base. - Your ability to make stuff up that's not onscreen or even suggested onscreen to explain this bad writing knows no limits! But it doesn't surprise me because it's the only defense TFA/Rey fans can come up with (that and the misogyny accusation). That's all that you can turn to once the logic and credibility of your arguments fall apart... and they always do! - Maybe Finn's name was pulled from other places? They just pulled his name out of hat?!? (Bad writing). - The mission wasn't crucial for Stormtroopers? How did they know that only villagers would be there? Supposed all the villagers were armed? (Some of them were). Supposed that they crossed paths with the Resistance? (They in fact did by way of Poe). You're just going to take that chance of losing the skirmish with totally inexperienced Stormtroopers?!? A mission that will secure something that you're obsessed with obtaining?!? (And please don't say something stupid like Kylo and Hux and Snoke weren't obsessed with it!).... Bad writing! - If those troopers had bloodlust training that was stronger than programming to be loyal and obedient to the First Order then those Stormtroopers would be going rogue all the time! Then it wouldn't make since for TR8R to scream "Traitor!" at Finn. He would've just said "Come on!" or let out a battle yell or something.... Bad theory (on your part) to try and defend bad writing! I'm making stuff up? Irony. You do know that happens. Not really pulling a name from a hat, but pulling from different companies. Send me 2 from this group, 2 from that group, 2 from that other group. Do you know what a pawn is? The mission wasn't crucial to the Stormtroopers. It might have been crucial to Kylo, Hux, and Snoke. The Stormtroopers are just there to shoot and kill. Or the obedience was overridden by fear in this one trooper. And since this trooper worked in sanitation... Maybe he didn't get regular conditioning. They way they talked about him needing to go back under, it probably does happen a lot. Or maybe they have them come in for regular reconditioning so it doesn't happen. He called him traitor because he just killed another Stormtrooper in front of him with a lightsaber. Maybe he was about to say something to him until he saw that. I think anything said would be called bad writing to you because you want it to not make sense or be bad. No matter what you don't want to like the movie. And I really don't care. I'm not here to try and change your mind on this. You have your way of seeing this and nothing is going to alter that. And just like that I'm now bored with you.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 27, 2017 0:39:20 GMT
Yeah really! Like I said I'm not the only one who saw it that way. It's documented right in the comments section of that YouTube video. So spare me the lame comeback as if I was off base. - Your ability to make stuff up that's not onscreen or even suggested onscreen to explain this bad writing knows no limits! But it doesn't surprise me because it's the only defense TFA/Rey fans can come up with (that and the misogyny accusation). That's all that you can turn to once the logic and credibility of your arguments fall apart... and they always do! - Maybe Finn's name was pulled from other places? They just pulled his name out of hat?!? (Bad writing). - The mission wasn't crucial for Stormtroopers? How did they know that only villagers would be there? Supposed all the villagers were armed? (Some of them were). Supposed that they crossed paths with the Resistance? (They in fact did by way of Poe). You're just going to take that chance of losing the skirmish with totally inexperienced Stormtroopers?!? A mission that will secure something that you're obsessed with obtaining?!? (And please don't say something stupid like Kylo and Hux and Snoke weren't obsessed with it!).... Bad writing! - If those troopers had bloodlust training that was stronger than programming to be loyal and obedient to the First Order then those Stormtroopers would be going rogue all the time! Then it wouldn't make since for TR8R to scream "Traitor!" at Finn. He would've just said "Come on!" or let out a battle yell or something.... Bad theory (on your part) to try and defend bad writing! I'm making stuff up? Irony. You do know that happens. Not really pulling a name from a hat, but pulling from different companies. Send me 2 from this group, 2 from that group, 2 from that other group. Do you know what a pawn is? The mission wasn't crucial to the Stormtroopers. It might have been crucial to Kylo, Hux, and Snoke. The Stormtroopers are just there to shoot and kill. Or the obedience was overridden by fear in this one trooper. And since this trooper worked in sanitation... Maybe he didn't get regular conditioning. They way they talked about him needing to go back under, it probably does happen a lot. Or maybe they have them come in for regular reconditioning so it doesn't happen. He called him traitor because he just killed another Stormtrooper in front of him with a lightsaber. Maybe he was about to say something to him until he saw that. I think anything said would be called bad writing to you because you want it to not make sense or be bad. No matter what you don't want to like the movie. And I really don't care. I'm not here to try and change your mind on this. You have your way of seeing this and nothing is going to alter that. And just like that I'm now bored with you. - No it doesn't happen if you're organizing a very crucial mission, villagers or no. Did Director Krennic surround himself with thrown together Stormtrooper squads made up of newbies (in Rogue One)? He didn't even do that when he went to pick up Galen Erso! And he was one scientist with a wife and a daughter! (Now there's good writing! Pay attention and take notes!). - Yeah I know what a pawn is. And a pawn takes orders from everybody. It wasn't the pawns choice of whether they are there or not. It's their bosses. What kind of bosses would surround themselves with incompetent newbies on an important mission? (Go see Rogue One if you want to see a well written portrayal of troops selection on a mission). - Maybe? Maybe, maybe, maybe. The writing of TFA is such that almost everything is open to maybes. And then when the writing flaws are exposed, they're defended and explained with maybes. - Bad is bad. I simply choose to recognize it rather than invent flawed excuses. It's popularity is irrelevant. If you love the movie that's fine. But I'm not going to pretend it's not badly written to appease your love affair with it, and the side effect of manufacturing an image of being immaculately and perfectly written. I choose not to blind myself on the subject. You do. - Of course you've gotten bored with me. Your argument was in quicksand from the start. And you're realizing that it's reaching the bottom of the sandpit. And there's nowhere else to go.
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Post by audiosane on May 8, 2017 17:47:13 GMT
- Finn may not be joyful in expression but he clearly has that look of a video game player getting off on points kills! Ironically I had never seen that YouTube video you posted before and someone made the very same observation I did in the comments section!!
next to the racial stereotyping and incongruent character writing, Finn's amorality of shooting his comrades (he grew up with and who were abducted as kids like him) without hesitation or conflict, and even with triumph, is one of the criticisms against the writing and execution of this character.
From the top of my head:
- "did you see that, did you see that" when hitting enemy targets - cries of triumph when hitting the Tie with the Falcon turret on Jakku - cheerleader-like triumph (what a pilot!!!) when best-buddy-ever-I-just-met Poe shoots 10+ Ties and countless ground troop soldiers in a few seconds - "I'm in charge Phasma, im in charge, Im in charge"
These characters seem to have a video game like black and white switch built into them.
I had only focused on Finn killing stormtroopers during his escape. Thanks for reminding me of those other times. Yeah, he definitely feels like someone who doesn't give a shit about them. Finn also has no real interest in learning more about his past, unlike Rey. Hmm.
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