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Post by goz on Sept 18, 2019 7:54:27 GMT
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Post by mikef6 on Sept 18, 2019 21:26:41 GMT
I remember how I cheered when this decision came down. I love how the judge slapped around the defendants by pointing out what lairs and deceivers they are by presented transcripts of the Superintendent and School Board publicly discussed ways to get around the ruling on creationism and finally settled on ID as a work-around.
Just goes to show the lengths these "religious" people will go to, abandoning ethics entirely, in order to use public funds and programs to push their fundamentalist beliefs onto unwilling citizens.
Who said that about being willing to overturn the judgment?
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Post by goz on Sept 18, 2019 21:41:39 GMT
I remember how I cheered when this decision came down. I love how the judge slapped around the defendants by pointing out what lairs and deceivers they are by presented transcripts of the Superintendent and School Board publicly discussed ways to get around the ruling on creationism and finally settled on ID as a work-around. Just goes to show the lengths these "religious" people will go to, abandoning ethics entirely, in order to use public funds and programs to push their fundamentalist beliefs onto unwilling citizens. Who said that about being willing to overturn the judgment? It is Planet 'Arlon' of course! It is his whole MO on here!
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Post by mikef6 on Sept 18, 2019 21:51:54 GMT
I remember how I cheered when this decision came down. I love how the judge slapped around the defendants by pointing out what lairs and deceivers they are by presented transcripts of the Superintendent and School Board publicly discussed ways to get around the ruling on creationism and finally settled on ID as a work-around. Just goes to show the lengths these "religious" people will go to, abandoning ethics entirely, in order to use public funds and programs to push their fundamentalist beliefs onto unwilling citizens. Who said that about being willing to overturn the judgment? It is Planet 'Arlon' of course! It is his whole MO on here! Of course! 
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Post by phludowin on Sept 18, 2019 22:19:14 GMT
He said it again recently? You didn't just regurgitate some ancient Arlonry? He really keeps his shtick? If he does: What's his excuse now for withholding his findings that will overturn it? I mean, you can only advance bogus excuses like copyright infringement or vote manipulation so many times... Let me guess: The dog ate his proof? Note: I don't really like talking behind other people's back, so Arlon10 , if you read this: Now is your chance to impress us all.
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Post by goz on Sept 18, 2019 22:30:10 GMT
He said it again recently? You didn't just regurgitate some ancient Arlonry? He really keeps his shtick? If he does: What's his excuse now for withholding his findings that will overturn it? I mean, you can only advance bogus excuses like copyright infringement or vote manipulation so many times... Let me guess: The dog ate his proof? Note: I don't really like talking behind other people's back, so Arlon10 , if you read this: Now is your chance to impress us all. IMDB2.freeforums.net/post/3242298yesterday ( sorry I don't know how to do that link thingie. It was on that thread about Hail Satan
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Post by phludowin on Sept 18, 2019 22:37:32 GMT
It's really there. I didn't watch Hail Satan and didn't read that thread, so I missed that quote; which had admittedly not much to do with the rest of the post.
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Post by Arlon10 on Sept 18, 2019 23:02:12 GMT
He said it again recently? You didn't just regurgitate some ancient Arlonry? He really keeps his shtick? If he does: What's his excuse now for withholding his findings that will overturn it? I mean, you can only advance bogus excuses like copyright infringement or vote manipulation so many times... Let me guess: The dog ate his proof? Note: I don't really like talking behind other people's back, so Arlon10 , if you read this: Now is your chance to impress us all. Suppose everything that claimed to be science really was, no more charlatans, no more ne'er-do-wells. With no more internet fights what a peaceful world it would be! People would simply give medical professionals a blank check, problem solved. It would be difficult to know who was qualified to discuss science, but you wouldn't have to tell, anything claiming to be science must be. If anyone said they measured the temperature of the atmosphere of the entire planet to within a small percentage of 1.5 degrees Celsius, then it must be true. No, that's not a trap for amateur scientists, it's a fact. If anyone said they measured the eustatic ocean level to within some small percentage of one-eight inch, that must be true too. No, that's not a trap for amateur scientists, it's a fact. If anyone said theirs is the correct solution to the twin paradox, same thing, not a trap, a fact. Don't you agree? I'm not so certain that would be so great. I like the idea of having traps that make it easy dismiss the amateurs. It could save lots of time. ~~((((()()()#()()()))))~~
I'm not withholding anything. I say it every day. The short RNA chains are doing now what they ever will do. There is no reason to assume they will ever do anything else. If you believe they will then please tell us how that happens. Do you depend on some "random" agency to show up a million years from now? In two weeks? I still believe there is no random agency. All the agencies there are have limited characteristics, which we can observe in the laboratory every day. If you still believe something else can happen then you probably believe everything else set up as a trap for amateurs. When will we put an end to that trap? I'm sure we will have to get around to it eventually. Meanwhile there's catching people and denominations and political parties in them.
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Post by fatpaul on Sept 19, 2019 0:38:23 GMT
Imma just gonna leave this here and just to say, aren't modern books on Evolution great:
Carl T Bergstrom - Evolution: (W. W. Norton & Company (21 Nov. 2011)).
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Post by Arlon10 on Sept 19, 2019 2:34:49 GMT
Imma just gonna leave this here and just to say, aren't modern books on Evolution great: Carl T Bergstrom - Evolution: (W. W. Norton & Company (21 Nov. 2011)). No, that one is not great. Of course replication can occur if the players in the struggle for replication are carefully arranged and isolated. What is needed is to prevent partial chains of RNA from attempting to duplicate with not completely matched longer chains in a way that tears them apart. What is needed is to show that a mix of short chains can develop longer ones without tearing the longer ones apart. Those experiments only dealt with artificially and obviously "friendly" environments of compatible chains, which is not realistic. Given a short time of development, mismatching with unguarded chains would start destroying things. In a more realistic environment the destruction would proceed all along. For living things to benefit from genetic coding it is first necessary to develop a safe zone for genetic transfers and manipulation where the inauspicious tearing apart cannot happen. That however requires an existing engine of rather extensive complexity. The trick is to show how that engine arises from RNA pools that don't have one. You have not done that. Most "real" scientists realize that isn't possible. The reports you cite are from mentally retarded hacks trying to deny the obvious truth, or liars who think anyone is stupid enough to fall for it. As usual in such cases important details are missing. Most people agree that a tornado cannot assemble an automobile from the parts in a junkyard, however some mentally retarded people fail to see how that means short RNA can't self assemble either. They believe quite without reason that somehow the characteristics of the nucleobases must lead to successful construction and never to destruction. However unless the scientists eliminate or dramatically reduce the possibility of destruction, as in those reports, destruction does happen. Just as the 2nd law of thermodynamics predicts. However eliminating that possibility also eliminates the possibility for growth. The safe zone must be designed. Only the most simple minded high school drop out would imagine that those reports you cited are important. Sadly those people run the world for now. Look at the mess they're making of it.
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Post by goz on Sept 19, 2019 3:35:01 GMT
Imma just gonna leave this here and just to say, aren't modern books on Evolution great: Carl T Bergstrom - Evolution: (W. W. Norton & Company (21 Nov. 2011)). No, that one is not great. Of course replication can occur if the players in the struggle for replication are carefully arranged and isolated. What is needed is to prevent partial chains of RNA from attempting to duplicate with not completely matched longer chains in a way that tears them apart. What is needed is to show that a mix of short chains can develop longer ones without tearing the longer ones apart. Those experiments only dealt with artificially and obviously "friendly" environments of compatible chains, which is not realistic. Given a short time of development, mismatching with unguarded chains would start destroying things. In a more realistic environment the destruction would proceed all along. For living things to benefit from genetic coding it is first necessary to develop a safe zone for genetic transfers and manipulation where the inauspicious tearing apart cannot happen. That however requires an existing engine of rather extensive complexity. The trick is to show how that engine arises from RNA pools that don't have one. You have not done that. Most "real" scientists realize that isn't possible. The reports you cite are from mentally retarded hacks trying to deny the obvious truth, or liars who think anyone is stupid enough to fall for it. As usual in such cases important details are missing. Most people agree that a tornado cannot assemble an automobile from the parts in a junkyard, however some mentally retarded people fail to see how that means short RNA can't self assemble either. They believe quite without reason that somehow the characteristics of the nucleobases must lead to successful construction and never to destruction. However unless the scientists eliminate or dramatically reduce the possibility of destruction, as in those reports, destruction does happen. Just as the 2nd law of thermodynamics predicts. However eliminating that possibility also eliminates the possibility for growth. The safe zone must be designed. Only the most simple minded high school drop out would imagine that those reports you cited are important. Sadly those people run the world for now. Look at the mess they're making of it. Messrs Dunning and Kruger would be so proud of you, claiming to know more than working acknowledged experts in their field. Next you should try brain surgery, or heart lung transplants! You have fought against dictionaries and won...what is stopping you now, and when is your challenge to Kitzmiller v. whatsisface going to be heard in the courts? LOL Ladies and gentlemen, we are privileged to be sharing this board with genius! The world needs you Planet Arlon! LOL
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Post by Arlon10 on Sept 19, 2019 4:50:28 GMT
No, that one is not great. Of course replication can occur if the players in the struggle for replication are carefully arranged and isolated. What is needed is to prevent partial chains of RNA from attempting to duplicate with not completely matched longer chains in a way that tears them apart. What is needed is to show that a mix of short chains can develop longer ones without tearing the longer ones apart. Those experiments only dealt with artificially and obviously "friendly" environments of compatible chains, which is not realistic. Given a short time of development, mismatching with unguarded chains would start destroying things. In a more realistic environment the destruction would proceed all along. For living things to benefit from genetic coding it is first necessary to develop a safe zone for genetic transfers and manipulation where the inauspicious tearing apart cannot happen. That however requires an existing engine of rather extensive complexity. The trick is to show how that engine arises from RNA pools that don't have one. You have not done that. Most "real" scientists realize that isn't possible. The reports you cite are from mentally retarded hacks trying to deny the obvious truth, or liars who think anyone is stupid enough to fall for it. As usual in such cases important details are missing. Most people agree that a tornado cannot assemble an automobile from the parts in a junkyard, however some mentally retarded people fail to see how that means short RNA can't self assemble either. They believe quite without reason that somehow the characteristics of the nucleobases must lead to successful construction and never to destruction. However unless the scientists eliminate or dramatically reduce the possibility of destruction, as in those reports, destruction does happen. Just as the 2nd law of thermodynamics predicts. However eliminating that possibility also eliminates the possibility for growth. The safe zone must be designed. Only the most simple minded high school drop out would imagine that those reports you cited are important. Sadly those people run the world for now. Look at the mess they're making of it. Messrs Dunning and Kruger would be so proud of you, claiming to know more than working acknowledged experts in their field. Next you should try brain surgery, or heart lung transplants! You have fought against dictionaries and won...what is stopping you now, and when is your challenge to Kitzmiller v. whatsisface going to be heard in the courts? LOL Ladies and gentlemen, we are privileged to be sharing this board with genius! The world needs you Planet Arlon! LOL Logic is an awesome thing really. Maybe you should try it once. You might like it better than following the herd.
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Post by goz on Sept 19, 2019 5:12:45 GMT
Messrs Dunning and Kruger would be so proud of you, claiming to know more than working acknowledged experts in their field. Next you should try brain surgery, or heart lung transplants! You have fought against dictionaries and won...what is stopping you now, and when is your challenge to Kitzmiller v. whatsisface going to be heard in the courts? LOL Ladies and gentlemen, we are privileged to be sharing this board with genius! The world needs you Planet Arlon! LOL Logic is an awesome thing really. Maybe you should try it once. You might like it better than following the herd. Add knowledge to logic (neither of which you possess) and we have a winner.
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Post by phludowin on Sept 19, 2019 5:46:08 GMT
For living things to benefit from genetic coding it is first necessary to develop a safe zone for genetic transfers and manipulation where the inauspicious tearing apart cannot happen. That however requires an existing engine of rather extensive complexity. The trick is to show how that engine arises from RNA pools that don't have one. You have not done that. Most "real" scientists realize that isn't possible. The reports you cite are from mentally retarded hacks trying to deny the obvious truth, or liars who think anyone is stupid enough to fall for it. As usual in such cases important details are missing. Most people agree that a tornado cannot assemble an automobile from the parts in a junkyard, however some mentally retarded people fail to see how that means short RNA can't self assemble either. They believe quite without reason that somehow the characteristics of the nucleobases must lead to successful construction and never to destruction. However unless the scientists eliminate or dramatically reduce the possibility of destruction, as in those reports, destruction does happen. Just as the 2nd law of thermodynamics predicts. However eliminating that possibility also eliminates the possibility for growth. The safe zone must be designed.And there is still no evidence for the veracity of this bolded part. Unless you or some other people prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this "safe zone" must be designed and can not exist naturally, ID or creationism can be dismissed.
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Post by Arlon10 on Sept 19, 2019 10:28:32 GMT
For living things to benefit from genetic coding it is first necessary to develop a safe zone for genetic transfers and manipulation where the inauspicious tearing apart cannot happen. That however requires an existing engine of rather extensive complexity. The trick is to show how that engine arises from RNA pools that don't have one. You have not done that. Most "real" scientists realize that isn't possible. The reports you cite are from mentally retarded hacks trying to deny the obvious truth, or liars who think anyone is stupid enough to fall for it. As usual in such cases important details are missing. Most people agree that a tornado cannot assemble an automobile from the parts in a junkyard, however some mentally retarded people fail to see how that means short RNA can't self assemble either. They believe quite without reason that somehow the characteristics of the nucleobases must lead to successful construction and never to destruction. However unless the scientists eliminate or dramatically reduce the possibility of destruction, as in those reports, destruction does happen. Just as the 2nd law of thermodynamics predicts. However eliminating that possibility also eliminates the possibility for growth. The safe zone must be designed.And there is still no evidence for the veracity of this bolded part. Unless you or some other people prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this "safe zone" must be designed and can not exist naturally, ID or creationism can be dismissed. You're still missing the whole point of the 2nd Law of thermodynamics. There is no "Maxwell's Demon." There is no barrier that is "smart" enough to keep the bad out and still let the good in, especially when the chemical nature of both is simple strands of RNA. A phospholipid bilayer is simple enough that we might agree it could happen by "accident" (?), but it won't serve the purpose. A "smarter" barrier requires an array of "membrane proteins" that are beyond the scope of short RNA replication to design. That's where we are stuck. When can get the list of basic, simple amino acids using the logic of Miller-Urey. We can skip ahead (without much complaint) to RNA self replication at a very simple level. That's where the problem is. The path to further development appears blocked.
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Post by phludowin on Sept 19, 2019 11:02:17 GMT
And there is still no evidence for the veracity of this bolded part. Unless you or some other people prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this "safe zone" must be designed and can not exist naturally, ID or creationism can be dismissed. You're still missing the whole point of the 2nd Law of thermodynamics. The second law of thermodynamics only applies to thermodynamically closed systems, which the Earth is not.
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Post by Arlon10 on Sept 19, 2019 12:22:08 GMT
You're still missing the whole point of the 2nd Law of thermodynamics. The second law of thermodynamics only applies to thermodynamically closed systems, which the Earth is not. You're welcome to 'open" the system as much as you like. Add as much sunshine as you like. Add as much wind, electrostatic discharge or other naturally occurring agency as you like. It still won't do you any good. Only living things have the ability capture and utilize such energy for controlled uses such as the construction of complex systems. One of the few naturally occurring events with storage and release of outside energy is rainfall. Use that as much as you like as well. It still won't do you any good. Please don't repeat that nonsense about the Earth being an open system and thus outside energy directing the construction of complex systems. It makes you sound like a young schoolboy with bad grades.
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Post by fatpaul on Sept 19, 2019 20:11:29 GMT
Arlon10 I was going to answer on point but phludowin has voiced my rebuttals more succinctly than I could. I.D advocates remind me of a local proverb: if a man who lives in a shithole attempts to knock holes in his neighbour's mansion, he still lives in a shithole regardless.
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Post by Arlon10 on Sept 20, 2019 9:52:23 GMT
Arlon10 I was going to answer on point but phludowin has voiced my rebuttals more succinctly than I could. I.D advocates remind me of a local proverb: if a man who lives in a shithole attempts to knock holes in his neighbour's mansion, he still lives in a shithole regardless. It's like evolution but not like many people thought. In the prebiotic world smaller RNA strands have the competitive advantage.
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Post by faustus5 on Sept 20, 2019 10:10:32 GMT
In the prebiotic world smaller RNA strands have the competitive advantage. Meaningless garbage even if true under some kind of narrowly defined interpretation.
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