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Post by The Herald Erjen on Sept 29, 2019 9:21:41 GMT
Enjoy. Disclaimer: The usual. My thoughts: Complicated. I'll explain them if the thread takes off, but for now suffice it for me to say that if you believe in the Christ, you should be prepared to suffer and not expect some kind of easy out because you believe.
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Post by Stammerhead on Sept 29, 2019 10:07:08 GMT
I’ve had two ruptures.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Sept 29, 2019 10:59:03 GMT
If so, we are still waiting. But then with purported apocalyptic events and their ilk that is ever the case. With religion it is always jam tomorrow, never today.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2019 11:04:52 GMT
Don't think so... I woke up with terrible leg cramp last night, but I think I just slept on it funny.
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Post by koskiewicz on Sept 29, 2019 15:11:47 GMT
There's a movie entitl3d "The Rapture" w/Mimi Rogers
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Sept 29, 2019 15:38:54 GMT
If so, we are still waiting. But then with purported apocalyptic events and their ilk that is ever the case. With religion it is always jam tomorrow, never today. If I've interpreted it correctly, two of the Four Horsemen have already ridden, and the third one is riding now. The Apocalypse is more of a process than an event.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Sept 29, 2019 15:39:36 GMT
There's a movie entitl3d "The Rapture" w/Mimi Rogers I saw it when I lived in Florida. Very strange movie.
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Post by Cody™ on Sept 29, 2019 16:23:08 GMT
Andrew Wommack is a prosperity gospel preaching false teacher though.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2019 16:27:21 GMT
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Sept 29, 2019 16:46:06 GMT
There's a movie entitl3d "The Rapture" w/Mimi Rogers Nic Cage appeared in a Rapture-infuenced film called Knowing a decade ago. I thought it had some great individual scenes though the ending is unsatisfactory.
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Post by Cody™ on Sept 29, 2019 17:38:26 GMT
It's mentioned nowhere in the Bible. It's a cultic heresy. Much like the Trinity the word isn’t mentioned but the concept is. “For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.” 1 THESSALONIANS 4:16-18.I believe in a post-tribulation rapture.
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Post by mikef6 on Sept 29, 2019 17:50:11 GMT
There is no doubt that the Bible writers all expected the immediate return of Jesus which would bring an end to everything and judge the cosmos. But…no one knew anything about a rapture with all the non-Jesus people left behind until around 1850 when the concept was seen in a vision by someone in a Brethren Church in London, England. The pastor of that church was John Nelson Darby, a prominent individual in Church of the Brethren history. Darby began to preach the Rapture and from there the concept was picked up by Christians in, mainly, what is now known as the Pentecostal Tradition. The idea of the Rapture followed by the Great Tribulation (Dispensationalism) is also popular in non-Pentecostal Fundamentalist Protestant churches.
Two important bullet points:
1) Dispensationalism is not quite 170 years old out of more than 2000 years of Christianity. Truly, the entire basis of the Christian scriptures (e.g. The New Testament) is the immediate End Of The Age, but the Rapture was unknown by the writers, by the Church Fathers, by the Reformers, or by anyone else until about 1850.
2) Even though Rapturists (a word I just made up) consider dispensationalism to be clear Biblical teaching, the vast majority of Christians worldwide do NOT believe in the Rapture. Even though it is easy to hear about it (almost all radio and TV preachers are Pentecostal) and almost impossible to avoid the “Left Behind” books, the Rapture as orthodoxy is limited to a small minority of believers. Neither mainstream Protestant denominations, Roman Catholics, nor Eastern Orthodox have a place for the Rapture in their belief systems.
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Post by Cody™ on Sept 29, 2019 19:28:41 GMT
There is no doubt that the Bible writers all expected the immediate return of Jesus which would bring an end to everything and judge the cosmos. But…no one knew anything about a rapture with all the non-Jesus people left behind until around 1850 when the concept was seen in a vision by someone in a Brethren Church in London, England. The pastor of that church was John Nelson Darby, a prominent individual in Church of the Brethren history. Darby began to preach the Rapture and from there the concept was picked up by Christians in, mainly, what is now known as the Pentecostal Tradition. The idea of the Rapture followed by the Great Tribulation (Dispensationalism) is also popular in non-Pentecostal Fundamentalist Protestant churches. Two important bullet points: 1) Dispensationalism is not quite 170 years old out of more than 2000 years of Christianity. Truly, the entire basis of the Christian scriptures (e.g. The New Testament) is the immediate End Of The Age, but the Rapture was unknown by the writers, by the Church Fathers, by the Reformers, or by anyone else until about 1850. 2) Even though Rapturists (a word I just made up) consider dispensationalism to be clear Biblical teaching, the vast majority of Christians worldwide do NOT believe in the Rapture. Even though it is easy to hear about it (almost all radio and TV preachers are Pentecostal) and almost impossible to avoid the “Left Behind” books, the Rapture as orthodoxy is limited to a small minority of believers. Neither mainstream Protestant denominations, Roman Catholics, nor Eastern Orthodox have a place for the Rapture in their belief systems. What do you think the rapture actually is?
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Post by mikef6 on Sept 29, 2019 20:38:09 GMT
What do you think the rapture actually is? Didn't you see the movie of Left Behind? I did (the Kirk Cameron one from 2000). Actually, I know its schematics from a combination of academic religious studies, personal reading, and, back in the 1980s and '90s, watching a lot of TV evangelists for sociology of religion study purposes. More to the point, how do YOU reconcile your belief of the Rapture and the Tribulation as orthodoxy considering that its history dates just from the mid-19th century?
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Post by maya55555 on Sept 29, 2019 21:38:01 GMT
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Post by Cody™ on Sept 29, 2019 21:49:09 GMT
What do you think the rapture actually is? Didn't you see the movie of Left Behind? I did (the Kirk Cameron one from 2000). Actually, I know its schematics from a combination of academic religious studies, personal reading, and, back in the 1980s and '90s, watching a lot of TV evangelists for sociology of religion study purposes. More to the point, how do YOU reconcile your belief of the Rapture and the Tribulation as orthodoxy considering that its history dates just from the mid-19th century? What is your personal understanding of what the rapture is? Sum it up for me. BTW no I haven’t seen that movie.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Sept 29, 2019 22:09:42 GMT
Didn't you see the movie of Left Behind? I did (the Kirk Cameron one from 2000). Actually, I know its schematics from a combination of academic religious studies, personal reading, and, back in the 1980s and '90s, watching a lot of TV evangelists for sociology of religion study purposes. More to the point, how do YOU reconcile your belief of the Rapture and the Tribulation as orthodoxy considering that its history dates just from the mid-19th century? What is your personal understanding of what the rapture is? Sum it up for me. The rapture is an eschatological concept of certain Christians, particularly within branches of American evangelicalism, consisting of an end time event when all Christian believers who are alive, along with the resurrected dead believers, will rise "in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air". Except a particular class of virgins, apparently.
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fatpaul
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Post by fatpaul on Sept 29, 2019 23:15:39 GMT
I remember watching a Christian made film (around 2007/8 maybe) about a H.G. Wells character who builds a time machine in the late 19th century in which two Christians take a trip to modern times. As soon as these two men arrive, they’re mugged by someone and even get arrested because they have no I.D. They witness the world in their future and consider it portends to biblical prophesy, signalling the end of days, which alarms them and so they return back to their own time with the intent to warn others. They were Christians that didn’t believe in the rapture and thought the future would be more Christian-like (for lack of a better word) but after witnessing the future, they changed their minds. They come back and tell the inventor about what they have seen and warn him that the end of days was coming but the inventor brushed them off. Curious though, the inventor inputs a date into the time machine just after the last journey, which the machine accepts as input. Then he tries a later date which is also accepted and then another even later date which is accepted too. The inventor is relieved and laughs to himself and again dismisses the two men. However the ‘dun-dun-duuunnn’ moment comes when he chooses a date thousands of years into the future but the machine doesn’t accepted it. Then he tries an earlier date and again, the machine doesn’t accept it. Then another and another, still not being accepted. And so the film ends with the poor inventor shitting himself after date after date is rejected. Even though it was evangelical propaganda, I enjoyed the film as it played out like an extended version of a twilight zone episode. I forget the name of this film and it had unknown actors in it, making it difficult to find references for it. If you The Herald Erjen (I remember you being pretty good in such tasks when I lurked on the old board) or anyone knows of the film I’d appreciate it if you could let me know because I’d love to watch it again as it was quite good and suspenseful. However I do understand the difficulty in this task. As to your thread title question, no I don't believe in any eschatology but it can be good sci-fi.
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Post by yougotastewgoinbaby on Sept 29, 2019 23:21:46 GMT
Andrew Wommack is a prosperity gospel preaching false teacher though. So, he’s a Christian?
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Sept 29, 2019 23:27:13 GMT
I remember watching a Christian made film (around 2007/8 maybe) about a H.G. Wells character who builds a time machine in the late 19th century in which two Christians take a trip to modern times. As soon as these two men arrive, they’re mugged by someone and even get arrested because they have no I.D. They witness the world in their future and consider it portends to biblical prophesy, signalling the end of days, which alarms them and so they return back to their own time with the intent to warn others. They were Christians that didn’t believe in the rapture and thought the future would be more Christian-like (for lack of a better word) but after witnessing the future, they changed their minds. They come back and tell the inventor about what they have seen and warn him that the end of days was coming but the inventor brushed them off. Curious though, the inventor inputs a date into the time machine just after the last journey, which the machine accepts as input. Then he tries a later date which is also accepted and then another even later date which is accepted too. The inventor is relieved and laughs to himself and again dismisses the two men. However the ‘dun-dun-duuunnn’ moment comes when he chooses a date thousands of years into the future but the machine doesn’t accepted it. Then he tries an earlier date and again, the machine doesn’t accept it. Then another and another, still not being accepted. And so the film ends with the poor inventor shitting himself after date after date is rejected. Even though it was evangelical propaganda, I enjoyed the film as it played out like an extended version of a twilight zone episode. I forget the name of this film and it had unknown actors in it, making it difficult to find references for it. If you The Herald Erjen (I remember you being pretty good in such tasks when I lurked on the old board) or anyone knows of the film I’d appreciate it if you could let me know because I’d love to watch it again as it was quite good and suspenseful. However I do understand the difficulty in this task. As to your thread title question, no I don't believe in any eschatology but it can be good sci-fi. No, I'm not familiar with that film but I'd like to see it. I'll look for it and if I find it I'll let you know. Thanks.
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