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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Oct 13, 2019 23:17:09 GMT
Catwoman (The Catwoman from the Burton movies appear on a picture) Suicide Squad (Batman appears) Joker (there's Bruce Wayne and the movie is about THE archenemy of Batman) Birds of Prey They are all part of the Batman franchise. Even Justice League is part of it. Batman is the primary lead character, Superman is the secondary character - Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Flash and Cyborg had no solo movies at that point. I mean that’s your opinion. If you want to include all of them, more power to you. I might agree with JL to some extent since he plays a far more centric role in that than in Joker or SS, but that’d be like saying that Avengers is an Iron Man movie. Avengers featured Hulk, Thor and Captain America. They all had solo movies before Avengers 1. Also, there was no primary character among them. They were equal. In JL, Batman was the absolute lead.
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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Oct 13, 2019 23:18:06 GMT
Batman is not irrelevant. Thomas and Bruce matter. Joker is Bruce's brother in this universe. A sequel is a possibility. Yeah Batman vs 70 year old Joker, that seems like a possibility. Maybe Bruce will become Batman earlier, in this universe. Maybe Fleck is not old as he appears. Maybe he imagined the whole movie in his head.
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Post by James on Oct 13, 2019 23:18:14 GMT
I see it the same way as Venom (2018) is to Spider-Man. He’s an anti-hero so it would only be fair to let it be its own thing. Venom is a standalone superhero at this point. Spider-Man doesn't appear. Venom has no Spider-powers anymore. Right, but even though Bruce appears in Joker, he isn’t Batman. Plus I don’t believe they’ll take the Batman vs Joker route as traditional.
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Post by James on Oct 13, 2019 23:20:03 GMT
I mean that’s your opinion. If you want to include all of them, more power to you. I might agree with JL to some extent since he plays a far more centric role in that than in Joker or SS, but that’d be like saying that Avengers is an Iron Man movie. Avengers featured Hulk, Thor and Captain America. They all had solo movies before Avengers 1. Also, there was no primary character among them. They were equal. In JL, Batman was the absolute lead. Fair enough. I was gonna counter by saying WW and Supes has solo movies before but yeah it’s mainly Bats’ story.
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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Oct 13, 2019 23:20:08 GMT
Venom is a standalone superhero at this point. Spider-Man doesn't appear. Venom has no Spider-powers anymore. Right, but even though Bruce appears in Joker, he isn’t Batman. Plus I don’t believe they’ll take the Batman vs Joker route as traditional. Peter Parker IS Spider-Man. Bruce Wayne IS Batman. Batman is Batman, he has no superpowers. In the "Joker" universe, there are several ways to ponder in regards to the Batman vs Joker route.
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Post by James on Oct 13, 2019 23:21:09 GMT
Right, but even though Bruce appears in Joker, he isn’t Batman. Plus I don’t believe they’ll take the Batman vs Joker route as traditional. Peter Parker IS Spider-Man. Bruce Wayne IS Batman. Batman is Batman, he has no superpowers. In the "Joker" universe, there are several ways to ponder in regards to the Batman vs Joker route. We’ll see if they’ll do it, but I just don’t think they will.
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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Oct 13, 2019 23:21:28 GMT
Avengers featured Hulk, Thor and Captain America. They all had solo movies before Avengers 1. Also, there was no primary character among them. They were equal. In JL, Batman was the absolute lead. Fair enough. I was gonna counter by saying WW and Supes has solo movies before but yeah it’s mainly Bats’ story. WW solo movie came some months after JL. Superman was a secondary character (sadly). Batman was the driving force of the story, the founder of the Justice League and the leader.
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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Oct 13, 2019 23:22:01 GMT
Peter Parker IS Spider-Man. Bruce Wayne IS Batman. Batman is Batman, he has no superpowers. In the "Joker" universe, there are several ways to ponder in regards to the Batman vs Joker route. We’ll see if they’ll do it, but I just don’t think they will. They will not do it. But we can imagine it.
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Post by scabab on Oct 13, 2019 23:29:11 GMT
If you're including Joker for Batman then you need to add $800+ million for Venom.
If you're including Suicide Squad for Batman then you need to add the $2 billion that Infinity War made.
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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Oct 13, 2019 23:32:11 GMT
If you're including Joker for Batman then you need to add $800+ million for Venom. If you're including Suicide Squad for Batman then you need to add the $2 billion that Infinity War made. In comic books, Green Goblin is the archenemy of Spider-Man - as well as Dr. Octopus. Venom became a standalone superhero with many solo titles under his belt. PLUS, the Venom movie has no Spider-Man on it, no spider-powers, no visual connections.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Oct 13, 2019 23:49:58 GMT
Joker is doing better than Venom, so that’s certainly something of note.
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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Oct 13, 2019 23:50:43 GMT
Joker is doing better than Venom, so that’s certainly something of note. I guess 800 million dollars is a lock, 1 billion a possibility.
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Post by merh on Oct 14, 2019 5:57:37 GMT
Joker isn't a Batman movie. Bruce Wayne is not Batman in this one. Bruce Wayne is Batman. Joker is a Bat-villain and there are no (other) superheroes in this film. It's a 100% Bat-movie. Bruce is what, 9 yrs old? The main Wayne discussed in Joker is Thomas. The standard parent murder that created Bats takes place in the wind-up.
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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Oct 14, 2019 13:19:24 GMT
Bruce Wayne is Batman. Joker is a Bat-villain and there are no (other) superheroes in this film. It's a 100% Bat-movie. Bruce is what, 9 yrs old? The main Wayne discussed in Joker is Thomas. The standard parent murder that created Bats takes place in the wind-up. Bruce Wayne is the main character of the Batman franchise, so his age doesn't matter, this is still an origin story for both Batman's greatest archenemy and Batman himself. Joker is not a superhero, he is Batman's archenemy, so this movie is a Bat-movie. Batman is simply the most popular superhero in history.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2019 14:45:15 GMT
I wouldn't have thought of Joker as a Batman movie though. Maybe there's an association where there's anything related to Batman, there's Batman (like the Pennyworth show - Batman related character, but no Batman) but surely that association would be smashed by seeing the movie. Bruce Wayne the child probably has no more than 2-3 minutes screen time and he's a child.
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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Oct 14, 2019 19:04:05 GMT
I wouldn't have thought of Joker as a Batman movie though. Maybe there's an association where there's anything related to Batman, there's Batman (like the Pennyworth show - Batman related character, but no Batman) but surely that association would be smashed by seeing the movie. Bruce Wayne the child probably has no more than 2-3 minutes screen time and he's a child. Bruce Wayne is on there. Thomas Wayne is on there. It's about the Waynes and their origin story (can't spoil it). JOKER is not a superhero. He is the archenemy of Batman. This movie is about the archenemy of Batman. The setting is Gotham City. This is a Bat-movie. Batman is winning again, guys. He's just the most popular superhero.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2019 20:08:19 GMT
I wouldn't have thought of Joker as a Batman movie though. Maybe there's an association where there's anything related to Batman, there's Batman (like the Pennyworth show - Batman related character, but no Batman) but surely that association would be smashed by seeing the movie. Bruce Wayne the child probably has no more than 2-3 minutes screen time and he's a child. Bruce Wayne is on there. Thomas Wayne is on there. It's about the Waynes and their origin story (can't spoil it). JOKER is not a superhero. He is the archenemy of Batman. This movie is about the archenemy of Batman. The setting is Gotham City. This is a Bat-movie. Batman is winning again, guys. He's just the most popular superhero. No argument from me the best DC stuff tends to be Batman or Batman adjacent, but I didn't think it was Batman related at all. In spite of the Bruce Wayne cameo, this is a movie I never thought I'd see. It's a Joker movie about the Joker.
Why would Bruce Wayne's fleeting presence in this movie make it a Batman movie but Spiderman's much greater role in the Avengers movies not make them Spiderman movies?
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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Oct 14, 2019 20:15:41 GMT
Bruce Wayne is on there. Thomas Wayne is on there. It's about the Waynes and their origin story (can't spoil it). JOKER is not a superhero. He is the archenemy of Batman. This movie is about the archenemy of Batman. The setting is Gotham City. This is a Bat-movie. Batman is winning again, guys. He's just the most popular superhero. No argument from me the best DC stuff tends to be Batman or Batman adjacent, but I didn't think it was Batman related at all. In spite of the Bruce Wayne cameo, this is a movie I never thought I'd see. It's a Joker movie about the Joker.
Why would Bruce Wayne's fleeting presence in this movie make it a Batman movie but Spiderman's much greater role in the Avengers movies not make them Spiderman movies?
Avengers are superheroes. Lots of superheroes. They are not supervillains belonging to superhero solo franchises. They are superheroes, and they had solo movies before Avengers 3 and 4. Joker is not a superhero. He's the archenemy of Batman. And it's a story focused on the Waynes anyway.
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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Oct 14, 2019 20:16:30 GMT
Found this:
DC COMICS EXTENDED UNIVERSE
est. $6.48 billion
•Box office – $5.276 billion[454] •Home video sales – $704 million[ge] •Merchandise sales – $500 million[457]
BATMAN
est. $25 billion
•Retail sales – $20.202 billion[bm] ◦Home video – $1.212 billion[bn] •Box office – $4.994 billion[bo] •TV revenue – $40 million[148]
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Post by sostie on Oct 14, 2019 20:27:03 GMT
Found this: DC COMICS EXTENDED UNIVERSE est. $6.48 billion •Box office – $5.276 billion[454] •Home video sales – $704 million[ge] •Merchandise sales – $500 million[457] BATMAN est. $25 billion•Retail sales – $20.202 billion[bm] ◦Home video – $1.212 billion[bn] •Box office – $4.994 billion[bo] •TV revenue – $40 million[148] Found This on the same page Marvel Cinematic Universe
est. $34 billion
Box office – $22.535 billion Merchandise sales – $5.43 billion Home entertainment – $5.254 billion Comic volumes – $520,000 Spider-Man
est. $28 billion
Merchandise sales – $14.805 billion Box office – $7.059 billion DVD & VHS sales – $1.924 billion Video games – $1.65 billion Comic sales – $1.074 billion TV revenue – $880 million Pachinko sales – $308 million Broadway musical – $212 million Blu-ray sales – $150 million
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