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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Oct 25, 2019 18:24:34 GMT
Don't believe the negative hype.
Ruby Rose delivers the best, she has charisma and a good "badass"-type acting. Cinematography is far better than The Flash or Supergirl. Great direction too. There's the spirit of Batman in this series, and it's fairly entertaining. I love the main plot.
The pilot has been a success, and second and third episodes performed very good nonetheless. Watch it if you're a Batman fan!
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Oct 26, 2019 4:35:01 GMT
Great for being boring that is.
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csale
New Member
@csale
Posts: 33
Likes: 14
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Post by csale on Oct 26, 2019 7:59:43 GMT
I have it sitting on my pvr and will eventually get to it.
TBH, what is putting me off more and more are the advert spots on Collider podcast that make it seem trashy - including the tag line “she is a bad ass and has the ink to prove it...”. Wow is that garbage...
On a side note: I’m finishing Swamp Thing right now and really enjoying it - too bad they screwed that production up. IMO it was the best production of any of the darker (non-Berlanti) DC shows.
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Post by dazz on Oct 26, 2019 16:36:39 GMT
It's not terrible but it's far from great, and Ruby Rose is a terrible lead, she's wooden and utterly void of charisma, the action stuff works for what it is, the shows story is generic and obvious as hell, I have been able to tell what the major points of each episode will be within like 2 minutes of each episode so far, none of the characters have stood out yet, none are likeable or loath-able at this point.
An issue I have though is the continuity of this show is dumb, it was established in Elseworlds that Batman wasn't provably real, yet in this not only is he accepted as real there is photographic evidence of him and now Batwoman, and this show is set up before Elseworlds happens, so how did Oliver & Barry not KNOW about Batman or even Batwoman being the real deal before they turned up in Gotham?
Oh and apparently being Batman is so reliant on the suit just being super awesome that you can be Batman or Batwoman for days or even weeks without issue without learning what any of the gadgets are...kind of takes away from the specialness of it if any physically fit person puts on the suit they to can be a Batsomething.
Early days yet but the show hasn't been impressive so far, but it also hasn't made me want to skip massive chunks of it either *cough*Supergirl*cough*, it could pick up, but if the Arrowverse's track record is to remain the show wont improve but get worse as historically the shows actually start off at their strongest and wain, only exception really being Legends of Tomorrow which started so craptastic it literally had nowhere to go but up, Batwoman however could get worse, so it most likely will sadly.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Oct 26, 2019 17:03:23 GMT
I don’t get why the show takes place in the prime Arrowverse universe rather than the Supergirl universe. It was already established that Batman exists in Supergirl’s universe, and the idea that he’s existed in the main universe for so long kind of cheapens the impact of Oliver Queen becoming a vigilante in the first place.
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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Oct 26, 2019 17:09:22 GMT
1- Ruby Rose is plain badass. She is great for THIS role. It's not Hamlet. Kate's father and Alice are also fascinating characters, especially Alice. Great job from the writers' part. 2- Batman is still considered an "urban legend" for MOST of the people in Gotham, I guess. Batwoman's picture is the only one evidence. In the Arrowverse, you must pretend that Star City is located very distant from Gotham City. FORCED nitpicking is stupid and lame. Fill the gaps by yourself. 3- Kate Kane is 100% special, and she trained for years and years and years. She's not like "everyone else". Must be in the blood. Don't be negative. The show is wonderful and the plot is getting more and more interesting. The Riddler is coming, even.
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Post by ThatGuy on Oct 26, 2019 18:43:07 GMT
I don’t get why the show takes place in the prime Arrowverse universe rather than the Supergirl universe. It was already established that Batman exists in Supergirl’s universe, and the idea that he’s existed in the main universe for so long kind of cheapens the impact of Oliver Queen becoming a vigilante in the first place. It's established that there is a Batman on Earth 1, also. They have all these heroes and villains from Gotham on the show. Earth 1 Batman isn't as out as the Earth 2* one. I think he's more urban hero to Gotham.
*Oops. It's Earth 38.
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Oct 26, 2019 18:49:06 GMT
So i should not belive the negative types, but tell me why should i belive you?
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Post by ThatGuy on Oct 26, 2019 18:49:11 GMT
It's not terrible but it's far from great, and Ruby Rose is a terrible lead, she's wooden and utterly void of charisma, the action stuff works for what it is, the shows story is generic and obvious as hell, I have been able to tell what the major points of each episode will be within like 2 minutes of each episode so far, none of the characters have stood out yet, none are likeable or loath-able at this point. An issue I have though is the continuity of this show is dumb, it was established in Elseworlds that Batman wasn't provably real, yet in this not only is he accepted as real there is photographic evidence of him and now Batwoman, and this show is set up before Elseworlds happens, so how did Oliver & Barry not KNOW about Batman or even Batwoman being the real deal before they turned up in Gotham?Oh and apparently being Batman is so reliant on the suit just being super awesome that you can be Batman or Batwoman for days or even weeks without issue without learning what any of the gadgets are...kind of takes away from the specialness of it if any physically fit person puts on the suit they to can be a Batsomething. Early days yet but the show hasn't been impressive so far, but it also hasn't made me want to skip massive chunks of it either *cough*Supergirl*cough*, it could pick up, but if the Arrowverse's track record is to remain the show wont improve but get worse as historically the shows actually start off at their strongest and wain, only exception really being Legends of Tomorrow which started so craptastic it literally had nowhere to go but up, Batwoman however could get worse, so it most likely will sadly. Because Batman (and now Batwoman) is a Gotham thing. There are lots of things that happen in other cities that you wouldn't hear/ read about. There is no Superman on that Earth for him to stand next to so he'd be on the national news.
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Post by dazz on Oct 26, 2019 19:02:49 GMT
1- Ruby Rose is plain badass. She is great for THIS role. It's not Hamlet. Kate's father and Alice are also fascinating characters, especially Alice. Great job from the writers' part. 2- Batman is still considered an "urban legend" for MOST of the people in Gotham, I guess. Batwoman's picture is the only one evidence. In the Arrowverse, you must pretend that Star City is located very distant from Gotham City. FORCED nitpicking is stupid and lame. Fill the gaps by yourself. 3- Kate Kane is 100% special, and she trained for years and years and years. She's not like "everyone else". Must be in the blood. Don't be negative. The show is wonderful and the plot is getting more and more interesting. The Riddler is coming, even. 1: No she isn't, this is a better argument if she were playing someone like Speedy, A Black Canary or even White Canary, where their face isn't 90% obscured by a mask, Ruby Rose whether she is doing a lot of the action scenes herself or not is meaningless because you can easily hide a full on stunt woman in that suit without it being noticeable, someone capable of doing their own stuff matters more when the characters face isn't mostly obscured, Rose is wooden and bland with her acting because she is a terrible actor.
The dad isn't that interesting neither is Alice, they are tropes and nothing more at this point, maybe they will become fascinating characters but at this point they are nothing special, none of the characters are, only one I kind of like is the step-sister because she seems like a nice person, but again this isn't to say the characters are bad, none make me want to turn off the show, but none above average either.
2: No he isn't, the entire city knows Batman abandoned them years ago, they know what Batman looks like hence them mistaking Kate as Batman and the need for her to add the wig and her own colours to the suit, they have a bat signal for Christ sake, the government would not create and fund a alert system for an urban legend without proof, and the fact that Batwoman isn't some new thing by the time of Elseworlds but an established vigilante in that city considering the moment she added the wig everyone knows oh it isn't Batman but a chick makes it all the more silly that Barry & Oliver were so surprised by her. Also don't know how far it is meant to be as isn't Bludhaven located right by Gotham? and Oliver has been to Bludhaven as that's where Malcolm hide Walter in S1, for Oliver to go there, save Walter and make it back without being questioned on where he has been makes it seem like that's not too far and neither is Gotham tbh.
What is lame is your need to unquestionably orally massage anything Bat related mate, as someone else pointed out putting Batwoman in the prime Arrowverse was daft, should have been the same earth as Supergirl which would allow them to do easy crossover episodes and two part episodes as they share the same night as well, putting it on E-1 just added way too many complications for no reason.
3: Not saying Kate isn't meant to be special, problem is the shows spent more time establishing that the Batsuit is what is super special, not the wearer, should have been the other way around, the suits superness shouldn't, the last episode had Kate afraid to put the suit on the second she found out there was a weapon that could penetrate it, Luke had to tell her there had to be a way to disable the gun and he would find it, she only puts it back on when he has found that out, that's meant to be the other way around, hero doesn't care if they can get hurt whilst the sidekick does, hero refuses to back down so the sidekick finds a way to protect the hero.
The show isn't bad, but it isn't good, it's passable and mediocre in most places, it has a lot of room for improvement though, but sadly the Arrowverse shows do not tend to improve, which is why S1 is usually the pinnacle for all of them, if this is as good as Bawoman gets then we are in for some shit.
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Post by dazz on Oct 26, 2019 19:08:53 GMT
It's not terrible but it's far from great, and Ruby Rose is a terrible lead, she's wooden and utterly void of charisma, the action stuff works for what it is, the shows story is generic and obvious as hell, I have been able to tell what the major points of each episode will be within like 2 minutes of each episode so far, none of the characters have stood out yet, none are likeable or loath-able at this point. An issue I have though is the continuity of this show is dumb, it was established in Elseworlds that Batman wasn't provably real, yet in this not only is he accepted as real there is photographic evidence of him and now Batwoman, and this show is set up before Elseworlds happens, so how did Oliver & Barry not KNOW about Batman or even Batwoman being the real deal before they turned up in Gotham?Oh and apparently being Batman is so reliant on the suit just being super awesome that you can be Batman or Batwoman for days or even weeks without issue without learning what any of the gadgets are...kind of takes away from the specialness of it if any physically fit person puts on the suit they to can be a Batsomething. Early days yet but the show hasn't been impressive so far, but it also hasn't made me want to skip massive chunks of it either *cough*Supergirl*cough*, it could pick up, but if the Arrowverse's track record is to remain the show wont improve but get worse as historically the shows actually start off at their strongest and wain, only exception really being Legends of Tomorrow which started so craptastic it literally had nowhere to go but up, Batwoman however could get worse, so it most likely will sadly. Because Batman (and now Batwoman) is a Gotham thing. There are lots of things that happen in other cities that you wouldn't hear/ read about. There is no Superman on that Earth for him to stand next to so he'd be on the national news. Star City is located 600 miles away from Central City but they have routinely showed news from one being reported in the other, Oliver went to Bludhaven during a time when Batman was operating still and Bludhaven iirc is meant to be located close to Gotham, Bruce Wayne and Gotham have been referenced many times in these shows, so it being in another city doesn't fly as an excuse imo, especially no when there have been multiple world threatening events to which Batman not only had never shown up to help with but no one ever mentioned him before as someone who could help, it all just makes more sense for Batwoman to be on the same earth as Supergirl or her own earth entirely, cramming a character like Batman into an established continuity like the Arrowverse with his full backstory and career behind him is just stupid.
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Post by ThatGuy on Oct 26, 2019 20:46:26 GMT
Because Batman (and now Batwoman) is a Gotham thing. There are lots of things that happen in other cities that you wouldn't hear/ read about. There is no Superman on that Earth for him to stand next to so he'd be on the national news. Star City is located 600 miles away from Central City but they have routinely showed news from one being reported in the other, Oliver went to Bludhaven during a time when Batman was operating still and Bludhaven iirc is meant to be located close to Gotham, Bruce Wayne and Gotham have been referenced many times in these shows, so it being in another city doesn't fly as an excuse imo, especially no when there have been multiple world threatening events to which Batman not only had never shown up to help with but no one ever mentioned him before as someone who could help, it all just makes more sense for Batwoman to be on the same earth as Supergirl or her own earth entirely, cramming a character like Batman into an established continuity like the Arrowverse with his full backstory and career behind him is just stupid. Because Bruce Wayne is a public, important, rich figure that does a lot with his money. Without a Justice League or World's Finest (partnered with Superman), Batman is a local urban myth. Flash is a known public hero. Green Arrow is now a known public vigilante. Also, going to Bludhaven doesn't mean that Oliver would run into Batman. Also, they heard of Batman. The problem is, like I said, they see him as an urban myth.
Watching the Elseworlds episode when they go to Gotham (Arrow ep). Barry brings Batman up and Oliver thinks he's a myth created by the cops. Barry makes fun of him for not believing he is real. Oliver yells at him "I'm the original vigilante, Barry!"
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Post by dazz on Oct 26, 2019 21:39:03 GMT
Star City is located 600 miles away from Central City but they have routinely showed news from one being reported in the other, Oliver went to Bludhaven during a time when Batman was operating still and Bludhaven iirc is meant to be located close to Gotham, Bruce Wayne and Gotham have been referenced many times in these shows, so it being in another city doesn't fly as an excuse imo, especially no when there have been multiple world threatening events to which Batman not only had never shown up to help with but no one ever mentioned him before as someone who could help, it all just makes more sense for Batwoman to be on the same earth as Supergirl or her own earth entirely, cramming a character like Batman into an established continuity like the Arrowverse with his full backstory and career behind him is just stupid. Because Bruce Wayne is a public, important, rich figure that does a lot with his money. Without a Justice League or World's Finest (partnered with Superman), Batman is a local urban myth. Flash is a known public hero. Green Arrow is now a known public vigilante. Also, going to Bludhaven doesn't mean that Oliver would run into Batman. Also, they heard of Batman. The problem is, like I said, they see him as an urban myth.
Watching the Elseworlds episode when they go to Gotham (Arrow ep). Barry brings Batman up and Oliver thinks he's a myth created by the cops. Barry makes fun of him for not believing he is real. Oliver yells at him "I'm the original vigilante, Barry!"
Yes because in Elseworld's it was implied Batman was more a shadowy figure, but now Batwoman is telling us no he was an open hero, being seen by people as he saved them as is Batwoman apparently, Gotham actually has a bat signal they have used and Batman was an active crime fighter for atleast what 15 years possibly 20+ with many of his rogues gallery having fought him.
Elseworld's set up was a bit of a stretch but it was doable, but Batwoman has pissed all over that making the idea no one knew about Batman and he never showed up to help anyone in these crossovers ridiculous, this is why it should have been set on Earth 37 or whatever where Batman is openly operational and this backstory would not contradict the flow or continuity of the existing lore.
Then again if Batman is 20 years or so into his career so he's going to be what early to mid 40's maybe older, yet he's supposedly outside of Gotham a myth, so why is a local myth/vigilante remembered in the future alongside the Man of Steel by the likes of Rip? if his glory days are behind him and he's bailed on his mission to save Gotham at this point already why is remembered alongside Superman in the future?
This is all just such a stupid jumble of bollocks, should have just set it on Supergirl's earth and made it a thing.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Oct 26, 2019 21:50:35 GMT
I guess it maybe won’t matter much in the grand scheme of things that the show takes place in the same universe as Arrow and The Flash, since they’re supposed to get rid of the multiverse when they do Crisis on Infinite Earths. Still, it is weird to buy the idea that Batman was around in this universe all along.
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Post by dazz on Oct 26, 2019 23:10:34 GMT
I guess it maybe won’t matter much in the grand scheme of things that the show takes place in the same universe as Arrow and The Flash, since they’re supposed to get rid of the multiverse when they do Crisis on Infinite Earths. Still, it is weird to buy the idea that Batman was around in this universe all along. But that's what makes me laugh, set it on earth 37 or 19 or whatever then after crisis who cares about the old continuity as it's all mushed together now, any discrepancies is simply due to crisis, but because they set it out as they did it's just an obvious lack of forethought on the creatives part.
How goofy is it they had the perfect out for this type of issue and fucked up utilising it?
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Post by thisguy4000 on Oct 26, 2019 23:22:13 GMT
I guess it maybe won’t matter much in the grand scheme of things that the show takes place in the same universe as Arrow and The Flash, since they’re supposed to get rid of the multiverse when they do Crisis on Infinite Earths. Still, it is weird to buy the idea that Batman was around in this universe all along. But that's what makes me laugh, set it on earth 37 or 19 or whatever then after crisis who cares about the old continuity as it's all mushed together now, any discrepancies is simply due to crisis, but because they set it out as they did it's just an obvious lack of forethought on the creatives part.
How goofy is it they had the perfect out for this type of issue and fucked up utilising it?
I realize this is irrelevant to mention, but I believe the Supergirl universe is designated as Earth-38, which is an obvious nod to the year when the first Superman comic was published.
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Post by dazz on Oct 26, 2019 23:26:13 GMT
But that's what makes me laugh, set it on earth 37 or 19 or whatever then after crisis who cares about the old continuity as it's all mushed together now, any discrepancies is simply due to crisis, but because they set it out as they did it's just an obvious lack of forethought on the creatives part.
How goofy is it they had the perfect out for this type of issue and fucked up utilising it?
I realize this is irrelevant to mention, but I believe the Supergirl universe is designated as Earth-38, which is an obvious nod to the year when the first Superman comic was published. Oh cool, I always wondered why it was numbered that when before hand it was E-1, E-2, E-3 in order of recognition then suddenly with SG it was E-30 something, 38 I will have to try and remember that...for the next what 6 weeks until all the multiverse collapses in on itself.
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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Oct 26, 2019 23:27:10 GMT
1- Ruby Rose is plain badass. She is great for THIS role. It's not Hamlet. Kate's father and Alice are also fascinating characters, especially Alice. Great job from the writers' part. 2- Batman is still considered an "urban legend" for MOST of the people in Gotham, I guess. Batwoman's picture is the only one evidence. In the Arrowverse, you must pretend that Star City is located very distant from Gotham City. FORCED nitpicking is stupid and lame. Fill the gaps by yourself. 3- Kate Kane is 100% special, and she trained for years and years and years. She's not like "everyone else". Must be in the blood. Don't be negative. The show is wonderful and the plot is getting more and more interesting. The Riddler is coming, even. 1: No she isn't, this is a better argument if she were playing someone like Speedy, A Black Canary or even White Canary, where their face isn't 90% obscured by a mask, Ruby Rose whether she is doing a lot of the action scenes herself or not is meaningless because you can easily hide a full on stunt woman in that suit without it being noticeable, someone capable of doing their own stuff matters more when the characters face isn't mostly obscured, Rose is wooden and bland with her acting because she is a terrible actor.
The dad isn't that interesting neither is Alice, they are tropes and nothing more at this point, maybe they will become fascinating characters but at this point they are nothing special, none of the characters are, only one I kind of like is the step-sister because she seems like a nice person, but again this isn't to say the characters are bad, none make me want to turn off the show, but none above average either.
2: No he isn't, the entire city knows Batman abandoned them years ago, they know what Batman looks like hence them mistaking Kate as Batman and the need for her to add the wig and her own colours to the suit, they have a bat signal for Christ sake, the government would not create and fund a alert system for an urban legend without proof, and the fact that Batwoman isn't some new thing by the time of Elseworlds but an established vigilante in that city considering the moment she added the wig everyone knows oh it isn't Batman but a chick makes it all the more silly that Barry & Oliver were so surprised by her. Also don't know how far it is meant to be as isn't Bludhaven located right by Gotham? and Oliver has been to Bludhaven as that's where Malcolm hide Walter in S1, for Oliver to go there, save Walter and make it back without being questioned on where he has been makes it seem like that's not too far and neither is Gotham tbh.
What is lame is your need to unquestionably orally massage anything Bat related mate, as someone else pointed out putting Batwoman in the prime Arrowverse was daft, should have been the same earth as Supergirl which would allow them to do easy crossover episodes and two part episodes as they share the same night as well, putting it on E-1 just added way too many complications for no reason.
3: Not saying Kate isn't meant to be special, problem is the shows spent more time establishing that the Batsuit is what is super special, not the wearer, should have been the other way around, the suits superness shouldn't, the last episode had Kate afraid to put the suit on the second she found out there was a weapon that could penetrate it, Luke had to tell her there had to be a way to disable the gun and he would find it, she only puts it back on when he has found that out, that's meant to be the other way around, hero doesn't care if they can get hurt whilst the sidekick does, hero refuses to back down so the sidekick finds a way to protect the hero.
The show isn't bad, but it isn't good, it's passable and mediocre in most places, it has a lot of room for improvement though, but sadly the Arrowverse shows do not tend to improve, which is why S1 is usually the pinnacle for all of them, if this is as good as Bawoman gets then we are in for some shit.
Your opinions. Sorry, I don't agree with them at all.
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Post by dazz on Oct 26, 2019 23:45:25 GMT
1: No she isn't, this is a better argument if she were playing someone like Speedy, A Black Canary or even White Canary, where their face isn't 90% obscured by a mask, Ruby Rose whether she is doing a lot of the action scenes herself or not is meaningless because you can easily hide a full on stunt woman in that suit without it being noticeable, someone capable of doing their own stuff matters more when the characters face isn't mostly obscured, Rose is wooden and bland with her acting because she is a terrible actor.
The dad isn't that interesting neither is Alice, they are tropes and nothing more at this point, maybe they will become fascinating characters but at this point they are nothing special, none of the characters are, only one I kind of like is the step-sister because she seems like a nice person, but again this isn't to say the characters are bad, none make me want to turn off the show, but none above average either.
2: No he isn't, the entire city knows Batman abandoned them years ago, they know what Batman looks like hence them mistaking Kate as Batman and the need for her to add the wig and her own colours to the suit, they have a bat signal for Christ sake, the government would not create and fund a alert system for an urban legend without proof, and the fact that Batwoman isn't some new thing by the time of Elseworlds but an established vigilante in that city considering the moment she added the wig everyone knows oh it isn't Batman but a chick makes it all the more silly that Barry & Oliver were so surprised by her. Also don't know how far it is meant to be as isn't Bludhaven located right by Gotham? and Oliver has been to Bludhaven as that's where Malcolm hide Walter in S1, for Oliver to go there, save Walter and make it back without being questioned on where he has been makes it seem like that's not too far and neither is Gotham tbh.
What is lame is your need to unquestionably orally massage anything Bat related mate, as someone else pointed out putting Batwoman in the prime Arrowverse was daft, should have been the same earth as Supergirl which would allow them to do easy crossover episodes and two part episodes as they share the same night as well, putting it on E-1 just added way too many complications for no reason.
3: Not saying Kate isn't meant to be special, problem is the shows spent more time establishing that the Batsuit is what is super special, not the wearer, should have been the other way around, the suits superness shouldn't, the last episode had Kate afraid to put the suit on the second she found out there was a weapon that could penetrate it, Luke had to tell her there had to be a way to disable the gun and he would find it, she only puts it back on when he has found that out, that's meant to be the other way around, hero doesn't care if they can get hurt whilst the sidekick does, hero refuses to back down so the sidekick finds a way to protect the hero.
The show isn't bad, but it isn't good, it's passable and mediocre in most places, it has a lot of room for improvement though, but sadly the Arrowverse shows do not tend to improve, which is why S1 is usually the pinnacle for all of them, if this is as good as Bawoman gets then we are in for some shit.
Your opinions. Sorry, I don't agree with them at all. I didn't expect you to, and no duh it's my opinion, just like what you wrote is just your opinion, maybe I could have expressed that what I said was just my opinion better but then I highly doubt you would have noticed that I had.
But if you like the show good for you, I still think it's mediocre so far, but I am sticking with it to see if it improves, god knows I stuck with Supergirl for 4 seasons, so Batwoman would need to become extremely shitty to get me to stop watching at this point.
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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Oct 26, 2019 23:52:25 GMT
Your opinions. Sorry, I don't agree with them at all. I didn't expect you to, and no duh it's my opinion, just like what you wrote is just your opinion, maybe I could have expressed that what I said was just my opinion better but then I highly doubt you would have noticed that I had.
But if you like the show good for you, I still think it's mediocre so far, but I am sticking with it to see if it improves, god knows I stuck with Supergirl for 4 seasons, so Batwoman would need to become extremely shitty to get me to stop watching at this point.
I think "Supergirl" is fairly entertaining. I don't expect it to be a masterpiece at all; I mean, it's a Supergirl show. "Batwoman" features a vastly better cinematography, a more fascinating actress and a Batman-themed character. People will love it and I'm sure that the show will quicky become more loved than "Supergirl" and other superhero shows.
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