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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Oct 26, 2019 23:22:45 GMT
I've just watched ENDGAME for the first time in my life. On blu-ray.
Basically, it's an adventure movie tinted with very nostalgic tones... turning into an epic battle at the very end. Since I had the whole movie spoiled, the "I'm Iron Man" sequence and Tony's death were less emotional form me, but emotional nonetheless.
It's a weird movie. Very disjointed. The first part feels like a nostalgic post-apocalyptic TV series. The time travel sequence feels like an adventure movie. The epic battle is very good but confusing. The best part is Captain America vs Thanos, such a terrific fight.
Well, I think Thor Lebowski was OVER THE TOP and way too far from the tone of the movie. The comedy surrounding him and his scenes was out of place and embarassing. I'm sorry to say that it ruins the movie a bit. After all, they have been destroying the Thor character and his meaning since 'THOR: THE DARK WORLD'.
The Funeral Sequence was a bit too long, and the Hologram Message was... I don't know, too "Disney" for my tastes? Also, I feel like the final sequences of Tony should have been more spectacular and desperate, before and after the SNAP.
All in all, a very good movie. I don't know if it could have been better. I just don't know. I just feel that Infinity War is better, overall.
By the way:
Old Steve at the end doesn't make sense. How did he manage to travel to the Universe 1?
And Professor Hulk, before sending Captain America back in time, just talked about "destroying" the "branched universes". WTF? Well, it doesn't make sense. You can't erase THEIR counterparts stealing the gems. Steve just brought back the gems MINUTES after they had been stolen from the Avengers counterparts. The branched realites exist. Forever. The Steve & Peggy Universe, the 2012 Universe, the 2013 Universe and the 2014 Universe.
That's it.
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Post by ThatGuy on Oct 27, 2019 2:15:36 GMT
Don't like your heroes going through depression, huh?
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Post by darkpast on Oct 27, 2019 4:03:53 GMT
The movie is a big mess and all over the place but you enjoyed it anyway? Endgame won a MTV award for best movie so we know its good and has a big red tomato on the fruit site, must consume.
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thenolan
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Post by thenolan on Oct 27, 2019 7:24:24 GMT
it was a good movie for kids. especially the last cgi cartoon colourful battle.
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Post by hobowar on Oct 27, 2019 11:39:01 GMT
I think my problems with the movie all stem from them having to create a story around actors contracts being up. Overall I have to say I didn't like this film very much which is a shame because there were a lot of things that I really liked, but the more I think about it, the more things I didn't like stand out. It's like my mcu rose tinted shades take more of a beating everytime I think about Endgame. Still I'm happy it did so well and I'm glad other people enjoyed it, but it's just not a film I could see myself coming back to a lot.
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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Oct 27, 2019 11:59:58 GMT
Don't like your heroes going through depression, huh? Not when depression is treated like a joke...
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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Oct 27, 2019 12:00:55 GMT
I think my problems with the movie all stem from them having to create a story around actors contracts being up. Overall I have to say I didn't like this film very much which is a shame because there were a lot of things that I really liked, but the more I think about it, the more things I didn't like stand out. It's like my mcu rose tinted shades take more of a beating everytime I think about Endgame. Still I'm happy it did so well and I'm glad other people enjoyed it, but it's just not a film I could see myself coming back to a lot. Tony's death seemed forced to me, indeed.
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Post by hobowar on Oct 27, 2019 12:32:36 GMT
Don't like your heroes going through depression, huh? Not when depression is treated like a joke... With the exception of one or two moments, fat Thor was probably one of the darkest and most realistic takes on depression that I've ever seen. A lot of comedians suffer from depression so it makes sense that some of it would come across as funny.
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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Oct 27, 2019 12:48:25 GMT
Not when depression is treated like a joke... With the exception of one or two moments, fat Thor was probably one of the darkest and most realistic takes on depression that I've ever seen. A lot of comedians suffer from depression so it makes sense that some of it would come across as funny. Are you serious? Thor, the God of Thunder. Have you ever read THOR in your life? And believe me, that is not a realistic portrait of depression by any stretch of imagination LMAO. That's just a comedy moment in pure MCU style. I'm sorry to say this, but you don't get a clue.
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Post by hobowar on Oct 27, 2019 13:03:24 GMT
With the exception of one or two moments, fat Thor was probably one of the darkest and most realistic takes on depression that I've ever seen. A lot of comedians suffer from depression so it makes sense that some of it would come across as funny. Are you serious? Thor, the God of Thunder. Have you ever read THOR in your life? And believe me, that is not a realistic portrait of depression by any stretch of imagination LMAO. That's just a comedy moment in pure MCU style. I'm sorry to say this, but you don't get a clue. I didn't find anything Thor did to be funny and I don't think it was meant to be. When he was arguing with noobmaster, that's probably the closest any of these characters ever got to suicide.
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Post by Vassaggo on Oct 27, 2019 13:34:24 GMT
With the exception of one or two moments, fat Thor was probably one of the darkest and most realistic takes on depression that I've ever seen. A lot of comedians suffer from depression so it makes sense that some of it would come across as funny. Are you serious? Thor, the God of Thunder. Have you ever read THOR in your life? And believe me, that is not a realistic portrait of depression by any stretch of imagination LMAO. That's just a comedy moment in pure MCU style. I'm sorry to say this, but you don't get a clue. As a person who has attempted suicide 4 times. Once at 17, 23, 26, and 32 the last time having to stay in a psychiatric hospital for 2 months over christmas that year. It does represent Depression very well. I have Dysthymia or Persistent depressive disorder which is a chronic depression that has less severe daily symptoms but last a lot longer than other forms of depression. Where other forms are sharper but usually lasting weeks or months in duration. Dysthymia episodes lasts for Years. On top of that I am susceptible to Major Depression Disorder. This is the classic depression. Sharp sudden intense lasting weeks to months. (If untreated an episode can last years) Where Dysthymia is more caused by genetics and is just occurs without outside stimuli. Major Depression Disorder can be triggered by life events. These two together are called Double Depression. The four times I attempted were caused by life experience that caused an Episode of Major Depression Disorder on top of my chronic Dysthymia. Usually it's the loss of an interpersonal relationship that causes the onset of the Major Depression in me it's one of my triggers. The length of Thor's episode of Depression is abnormal, but all other aspects of his depiction fits Major Depression Disorder caused by external stimuli. (it's abnormal length but not unheard of. I've met and known people who have MDD caused by external stimuli like the loss of a child, husband, etc who didn't have Dysthymia or chronic depression that lasted decades though it's just not typical) Lack of motivation, lethargy, increased eating, sleeping, self medicating with alcohol or drugs is shown by Thor. The main thing that hobowar gets right is the use of humor as a shield. Some of the funniest people I know are depressed people. It's a shield. When forced to interact with the outside world and not left to stew in ones depression us depressives tend to try and be funny. We also avoid talking about what has triggered us. "We don't say that name" Even if you don't self medicated you become foggy brained it's just a symptom of the depression. Forgetting important things, losing your train of thought when talking. Drugs and Alcohol increases this. Sometimes you try and fix others or their problems to avoid your own. All seen in the movie. If you see how much Thor lost from Thor the Dark World on (His Father, Mother, Brother, Planet, Half his People, and the guilt of fucking up and feeling responsible for Trillions of Deaths) then the abnormal length of his MDD is understandable. And even the meta-wise it fits. Depression to the person who has it feels stripped of pride, self worth, purpose, direction, and well being. What would be the easiest way to portray that feeling visually. Taking the buff, handsome, well kept, respected, and Godly person and turn him into the opposite of that. And that's what the film makers did. They took away everything that we knew of Thor and gave us the opposite. That's how you feel when you are in a MDD episode to a tee. So yeah what is shown in that movie does represent Depression very well.
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thenolan
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Post by thenolan on Oct 27, 2019 14:59:32 GMT
Don't like your heroes going through depression, huh? Not when depression is treated like a joke... Quoted in truth. I still don't understand how MCU fanbots not fanboys, since most of them are liked programmed Disney robots now are still defending clown Thor.
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Post by ThatGuy on Oct 27, 2019 17:15:13 GMT
Not when depression is treated like a joke... With the exception of one or two moments, fat Thor was probably one of the darkest and most realistic takes on depression that I've ever seen. A lot of comedians suffer from depression so it makes sense that some of it would come across as funny. The thing about of the funnier characters is that they use humor to mask their pain. Thor was the main one. You see this especially in Infinity War when he's talking to Rocket about loss and ends it jokingly. Thor is probably the most tragic character in the MCU.
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Post by ThatGuy on Oct 27, 2019 17:21:12 GMT
Don't like your heroes going through depression, huh? Not when depression is treated like a joke... Wasn't treated as a joke at all. It was just the direction the character went to. Thor lost everything and then, when he had nothing else, he lost his good looks. That gut was his rock bottom. Most of the time he was drunk and forgetful. The dude was clearly at a very low point. And he tried to hide it with humor.
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Post by hobowar on Oct 27, 2019 17:21:59 GMT
With the exception of one or two moments, fat Thor was probably one of the darkest and most realistic takes on depression that I've ever seen. A lot of comedians suffer from depression so it makes sense that some of it would come across as funny. The thing about of the funnier characters is that they use humor to mask their pain. Thor was the main one. You see this especially in Infinity War when he's talking to Rocket about loss and ends it jokingly. Thor is probably the most tragic character in the MCU. Couldn't agree more.
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Post by ThatGuy on Oct 27, 2019 17:29:31 GMT
Don't like your heroes going through depression, huh? Isn’t this what Scorsese was bitching about? That these films are not introspective enough? The superheroes don’t deal with human issues like death, betrayal, navigating the Mob. Can’t please everyone I guess. Thor went through all of that.
I think he only sees the bigger picture instead of the details. These characters are going through some heavy stuff. But I guess the humor makes you forget about all that.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 17:40:49 GMT
I'm sort of torn. What's done is done, and while I didn't like it at first, I'm more resigned now to just accept it. They did well with an angle I didn't particularly care for. I've always liked Thor but I didn't think he hit his stride until Ragnarok, then upped the ante in Infinity War. I wasn't finished watching him kick ass and take names with his new hair.
I'm but a simple viewer, so I'm not wrought with concern for the logistics of the franchise. I'll weigh in if I have to, but suffice to say, I'm not joined at the hip with what sort of arrangements Disney makes with its stars. I've heard through the grapevine this character turn revitalized Chris Hemsworth's enthusiasm for the character. Good for him, he gets paid, I don't.
He did it well though. And it all connects. I thought he had a sweet and tender moment with his mother, Rene Russo. I thought he was desperately unhappy. I thought he felt he lacked purpose because Thanos was no longer one of a long line of lackeys that fell before Thor. I think Thor was depressed and furious because Thanos did a better job at being the hero of his own story and accomplishing his tasks than Thor. In a way, Thanos did a better job at being Thanos than Thor did at being Thor. When it came to light Thanos destroyed the stones, it's over. Thor can't lay claim to stopping an all powerful, evil entity anymore. He's resigned to knowing he and the others outnumbered a wounded semi-retired Thanos in his house. No epic battle, as is usually the story legends are made of. Just killing an unarmed man in his kitchen while he's eating breakfast. Thor had to kill him violently to convince himself Thanos was anywhere near the threat that justified their presence there. Thanos' job was done at the expense of Thor's image of himself.
If Thor was in Ragnarok/Infinity War shape, he'd have never had a tender moment with his mother. He would have also never found out the most important feature to his character: just because he failed by his own standards doesn't mean he's unworthy. If Thor were in better shape, he could have done the snap back, but he wasn't. Enter Hulk, who may have found his purpose. Maybe this is why when Bruce put a bullet in his mouth, Hulk spat it out. Maybe this was why Bruce and Hulk survived the snap. This was foreshadowed in the first Avengers. Hulk survives for a reason.
It all checks out. I didn't like the new Thor or new Hulk, but they work. They're connected properly enough...my hands are tied. I can no longer imagine it a different way, nor do I want to. It's just... done.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 18:24:06 GMT
I'm sort of torn. What's done is done, and while I didn't like it at first, I'm more resigned now to just accept it. They did well with an angle I didn't particularly care for. I've always liked Thor but I didn't think he hit his stride until Ragnarok, then upped the ante in Infinity War. I wasn't finished watching him kick ass and take names with his new hair.
I'm but a simple viewer, so I'm not wrought with concern for the logistics of the franchise. I'll weigh in if I have to, but suffice to say, I'm not joined at the hip with what sort of arrangements Disney makes with its stars. I've heard through the grapevine this character turn revitalized Chris Hemsworth's enthusiasm for the character. Good for him, he gets paid, I don't.
He did it well though. And it all connects. I thought he had a sweet and tender moment with his mother, Rene Russo. I thought he was desperately unhappy. I thought he felt he lacked purpose because Thanos was no longer one of a long line of lackeys that fell before Thor. I think Thor was depressed and furious because Thanos did a better job at being the hero of his own story and accomplishing his tasks than Thor. In a way, Thanos did a better job at being Thanos than Thor did at being Thor. When it came to light Thanos destroyed the stones, it's over. Thor can't lay claim to stopping an all powerful, evil entity anymore. He's resigned to knowing he and the others outnumbered a wounded semi-retired Thanos in his house. No epic battle, as is usually the story legends are made of. Just killing an unarmed man in his kitchen while he's eating breakfast. Thor had to kill him violently to convince himself Thanos was anywhere near the threat that justified their presence there. Thanos' job was done at the expense of Thor's image of himself.
If Thor was in Ragnarok/Infinity War shape, he'd have never had a tender moment with his mother. He would have also never found out the most important feature to his character: just because he failed by his own standards doesn't mean he's unworthy. If Thor were in better shape, he could have done the snap back, but he wasn't. Enter Hulk, who may have found his purpose. Maybe this is why when Bruce put a bullet in his mouth, Hulk spat it out. Maybe this was why Bruce and Hulk survived the snap. This was foreshadowed in the first Avengers. Hulk survives for a reason.
It all checks out. I didn't like the new Thor or new Hulk, but they work. They're connected properly enough...my hands are tied. I can no longer imagine it a different way, nor do I want to. It's just... done.
My only problem with Fat Thor is his tubbiness looked fake. Had Hemsworth actually gained the pounds like De Niro or Christian Bale he would have looked less ridiculous...though Thor appearing ridiculous is the point. It's totally true. When I saw Thor I was aghast at his stomach. I almost couldn't believe it.
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Post by sdrew13163 on Oct 27, 2019 19:20:17 GMT
Don't like your heroes going through depression, huh? That’s not the issue at all, you know that. They made him a fat idiot in which his grief was a joke, not a piece of actual character development. It was awfully written and I still struggle to comprehend how it was approved.
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Post by Prime etc. on Oct 27, 2019 20:19:33 GMT
You don't usually go to a superhero film to watch them being depressed. Imagine a serial matinee adventure with Zorro sitting around whining about his life.
They have mocked Thor since the beginning--Avengers 1 for sure. Personally I think he is a really boring character in the comics but turning him into a joke doesn't help. Likewise, Captain America works better in animation:
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