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Post by Salzmank on Feb 4, 2017 19:06:17 GMT
I'm trying to save the very long Sleuth thread wherever I can: I don't want it to disappear, but I also doubt I can copy all of the postings there. So, to make it easier on myself and everyone else, I'll copy the most important parts here. ______________________________ I'm sure somebody has posted about this before because it's seemingly such a big mystery (see www.soundtrackcollector.com/forum/displayquestion.php?topicid=7598, en.allexperts.com/q/Classic-Film-2786/Cole-Porter-Sleuth-movie.htm, and www.imdb.com/title/tt0069281/board/thread/10107549), so, if there is another thread about this, it would help me a great deal if someone can post a link to it. The mystery is that just about no one seems to know who sang three Cole Porter songs--"Just One of Those Things," "You Do Something to Me," and "Anything Goes"--in the movie Sleuth (1972). Here's a link to a video of Laurence Olivier's character dancing to them in a scene from the movie: www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_VVr8ScGOc. One would think that by this time someone would have some idea of who sang them, but the identity of the singer just seems a mystery despite some promising leads over the years, none of which have panned out. Even more curiously, there is no singer identified in the end credits, and the three songs did not appear on the movie's soundtrack. From what I could find, the last time that someone could look into this question was at the website "Soundtrack Collector" on March 5 of this year; the last poster stated that he had found "the exact song" of "Anything Goes" on Amazon Music for $1.29. After checking Amazon Music and looking through/previewing the many different versions of "Anything Goes," I was unable to find the song to which he referred and could not find the version from Sleuth. The poster immediately before him suggested that "You Do Something to Me" was on the soundtrack for Woody Allen's Magic in the Moonlight, but, after checking that, I discovered that that version was sung by Frank Luther for Leo Reisman's orchestra, a candidate considered since the beginning--and not the actual singer from Sleuth. The weird thing about the whole thing is that it seems so mysterious. Why should it be so difficult to find who sang three songs? Why wasn't the singer's name in the credits? Why didn't the soundtrack include the songs? My only guess--and I concede that this is far-fetched--is that it's on purpose. The film is all about tricks, games, mysteries, puzzles, etc., and, unlikely as it sounds, I wonder if director Joseph Mankiewicz and screenwriter Anthony Shaffer made this mysterious singer so hard to find on purpose. That is to say, I wonder if the versions were specially created for the film or put together from other recordings (somehow)--or that it's someone whom we wouldn't suspect of being a singer (someone suggested Michael Caine himself, though I very much doubt it). More likely, of course, no one ever thought that anyone would be trying so hard to find this guy--but that still leaves the above questions unanswered. I apologize for going on so long, but I did want to provide all the background that I could. Thank you all very much--it would be great if someone could finally put this old question to rest! |
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Post by Salzmank on Feb 4, 2017 19:17:51 GMT
After figuring out that it is not actually Frank Luther's singing for Leo Reisman's orchestra, WillEd came to the conclusion that these were actually recordings made just for the movie. His theory was backed up by "MusicProf78," who posted the Leo Reisman/Frank Luther track, and "Lyncounion" at soundtrackcollector.com. D'après "Lyncounion":
""I'm pretty certain these are modern recordings.
"There are a number of giveaways, if you listen closely:
- The arrangements of "You Do Something to Me" and "Anything Goes" do not stylistically fit the big band music of the period in that they start with a vocal verse instead of an instrumental verse. More significantly, in "Anything Goes" there are multiple instrumental verses after the vocal verse, which very conveniently occur exactly when the characters in the film start talking.
- The length of "You Do Something to Me" is barely over 2 minutes, short for a 78 of this style.
- The acoustic bass, on all the numbers, is very loud and well defined in the mix. Recording technology was not sufficiently advanced in the 30s to capture a rich bass sound like this.
- The snare fill played by the drummer at the beginning of "Anything Goes" (right after the bell rings), is uncharacteristic of the period. It's also quite loud and trebly, which wasn't easily captured in older recordings.
- In the same song, in the first measure of the verse the guitar and bass play a figure with a strong backbeat that would sound more common in the rock era--rhythm sections didn't play like this in the 30's.
"I'm far from an expert on 1930's recordings or big-band music, but after listening to it on good headphones I think these are very well done fakes done by studio pros. I certainly could be wrong, but that so many people have been interested in this question and it hasn't been easily resolved makes it more likely that these vintage recordings don't actually exist. It's still a wonderful film."
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Post by Salzmank on Feb 4, 2017 19:18:06 GMT
Then "WillEd" argued that it could conceivably be '30s recordings, as unlikely as it seemed:
"Guess what? I found a singer who started in 1925 and it looks like in all his recordings he sings in what later became the standard. Short music into. Sings the song, short music break, then repeats the last two verses. I never heard of him until now, but he was very popular, so I think my theory before was correct. If a singer was popular enough, that is the way it went, but if the focus is the orchestra, the singer is second fiddle to that and has to wait until the orchestra starts before he gets to sing and usually does it fast, like so they can get back to the orchestra."
and
"It means it could be an old recording because the modern method was sometimes used then, but I still think they are modern recordings. My gut tells me they are not authentic from that period. The singer obviously is not someone famous and you still have the problem of three Cole Porter songs from the same singer and one of the songs is from the twenties while the other two are mid thirties and the orchestra is the same in all three. The two from the thirties could possibly be A and B sides on the same record. The twenties one is harder to explain."
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Post by Salzmank on Feb 4, 2017 19:18:34 GMT
And then I was able to find an e-mail address for someone who worked on the film, Graham Hartstone. Mr. Hartstone was kind enough to respond to my e-mail but could shed no light on the matter:
"I have had this enquiry before, a few years ago and I'm afraid I wasn't able to spread any light on this conundrum. I don't know if anyone is around who worked for Palomar Pictures - there may be a paper trail showing who either paid or paid for the vocalist.
"Sorry I can't be more help.
"Kind regards
"Graham."
OK, those are the major points that we made on the original IMDb. Maybe one or two sleuths here can start work on this puzzle too!
Thanks!
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paislene
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Post by paislene on Feb 12, 2017 20:47:11 GMT
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Post by Salzmank on Feb 13, 2017 18:07:59 GMT
Ah, thank you, Paislene!
The thread was very long, and I didn't want to lose any of the progress we'd made on solving it. I also posted this information to the Rotten Tomatoes forum and the Soundtrack Collector forum--no answers yet. (On the former, it seems that the folks there are resistant to former IMDb forum-users--I don't know why exactly.) I will take your advice and post in the soundtrack section here as well.
Best,
Salzmank
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 18:18:49 GMT
To me, it sounds like Cole Porter himself singing. I'll keep looking into it.
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Post by Salzmank on Feb 15, 2017 19:36:59 GMT
I probably should have been clearer about this, but, just to let you know, the one thing we did establish fairly early on was that this is not Cole Porter singing. I had that opinion verified by several music experts. Thanks for chiming in, though, and for looking for an answer!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 21:21:43 GMT
I probably should have been clearer about this, but, just to let you know, the one thing we did establish fairly early on was that this is not Cole Porter singing. I had that opinion verified by several music experts. Thanks for chiming in, though, and for looking for an answer! I'm sorry. I should've known that would've been explored already. I've been using my music ID app, but no results yet. I guess the film clip is a tad busy, sound wise. It sounds a bit like Al Bowlly (sp?), but lower pitched. |
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Post by Salzmank on Feb 16, 2017 19:44:28 GMT
No worries, Fandomsavan--no need to be sorry! I had actually thought of Al Bowlly too, but, you're right, this singer's voice is lower--and, of course, there are the problems that WillEd and Lyncounion pointed out. Thanks again.
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Post by Salzmank on Feb 20, 2017 5:33:04 GMT
In the grand manner that we used to do on the sadly now-defunct IMDb Board, and in honor thereof,
BUMP!
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Post by Salzmank on Feb 20, 2017 18:15:36 GMT
I just posted this to the other thread, but here it is for this one: I have tried a different tack in hunting for the answer. On " Soundtrack Collector," one of the posters--McNeal_182--went to the trouble of reaching out to the Cole Porter HQ in New York--which, like everything else in this mystery, resulted only in a dead end. Inspired by that, I (again) looked up composer John Addison's page on Wikipedia; Mr. Addison is no longer with us (indeed, I believe Graham Hartstone, whom I e-mailed, as noted above, may be the last still-living crew member, sadly), but he of course wrote the music for Sleuth. Well! What do I see? "Addison's collection of correspondence, scores, and studio recordings were donated to the Film Music Archives at Brigham Young University in 1994." So I went to the BYU Film Music Archives and saw advertised on the front page that it still has Addison's papers in its collection. I e-mailed the Archive's curator, James D'Arc, this morning. He still has yet to respond to me, but it's a step in the right direction, no? I will copy his response, or the crux thereof, here as soon as he responds (if he does). |
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Post by mattjoes on Feb 20, 2017 23:32:15 GMT
Hello, I think this is very, very strong evidence to suggest the songs were especifically re-recorded for the film. Maybe I'm not saying anything extraordinary here, but it's probably worth asking oneself why the filmmakers would want to use such an obscure version of a song in the movie. Wouldn't the original version be preferrable? If not, would it be because of the cost of licensing it or because of the need for it to match the dialogue and sound effects? Then, would the filmmakers go to the trouble of looking at tons of versions of Anything Goes until running into the one that was cheaper or that fit the film? Or would they just get the rights to re-record it (cheaper than getting an existing version) and have someone re-arrange and re-record them for the film? About the cost of the re-recording itself, look at this: (SOURCE: www.robin-hoffmann.com/tutorials/guide-to-working-with-a-film-composer/6-music-budget/)10-20 minutes per session. With this in mind, it's not unfeasible to think the benefits of re-arranging and re-recording could outweigh the money and time (= more money) required to find an suitable existing version. As you know, the IMDb lists Gary Hughes as music arranger for songs. He's uncredited in the film, but I think it's clear the credit implies he did the Cole Porter re-recordings. That's a lead to follow. Hughes has passed away, but I wonder if there's a way of finding out who submitted that information to the IMDb... |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 1:32:37 GMT
It's probably sung by Alec Cawthorne...  |
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Post by Salzmank on Feb 21, 2017 3:29:37 GMT
Hello, I think this is very, very strong evidence to suggest the songs were especifically re-recorded for the film. Maybe I'm not saying anything extraordinary here, but it's probably worth asking oneself why the filmmakers would want to use such an obscure version of a song in the movie. Wouldn't the original version be preferrable? If not, would it be because of the cost of licensing it or because of the need for it to match the dialogue and sound effects? Then, would the filmmakers go to the trouble of looking at tons of versions of Anything Goes until running into the one that was cheaper or that fit the film? Or would they just get the rights to re-record it (cheaper than getting an existing version) and have someone re-arrange and re-record them for the film? About the cost of the re-recording itself, look at this: (SOURCE: www.robin-hoffmann.com/tutorials/guide-to-working-with-a-film-composer/6-music-budget/)10-20 minutes per session. With this in mind, it's not unfeasible to think the benefits of re-arranging and re-recording could outweigh the money and time (= more money) required to find an suitable existing version. As you know, the IMDb lists Gary Hughes as music arranger for songs. He's uncredited in the film, but I think it's clear the credit implies he did the Cole Porter re-recordings. That's a lead to follow. Hughes has passed away, but I wonder if there's a way of finding out who submitted that information to the IMDb... Exactly. I think someone sang them just for the movie as well. I was just trying to copy down all viewpoints over the years. It has been a while since people really, dedicatedly looked into this mystery, so I'm hoping to put everything together in one thread. I'm having difficulty contacting anyone who was affiliated with the production who is still alive. Graham Hartstone was a lead, which as you know didn't pan out. (Heaven help us, I feel like Ellery Queen!) I can try to contact IMDb about the identity of the person who posted Hughes's name, as you suggested, but I somehow doubt they'd tell me even if they know. Hartstone, like Deep Throat, basically told me to "follow the money"—the money trail of the now-defunct Palomar Pictures. Unfortunately, I haven't found any ways to do so. That's why I'm hoping this bit with BYU turns up something. I hope so, but then again I'm not holding my breath. Thanks for your excellent analysis and thoughts! Please write back if you have something else. |
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Post by Salzmank on Feb 21, 2017 3:31:23 GMT
It's probably sung by Alec Cawthorne... Or, for that matter, Eve Channing! |
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carlcarlson1
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Post by carlcarlson1 on Feb 22, 2017 2:44:50 GMT
Have you tried contacting Warner Brothers Publishing? Music: Songs: "Just One of Those Things," "You Do Something to Me" and "Anything Goes," music and lyrics by Cole Porter, by arrangement with Warner Brothers Publishing. Composer: Cole Porter www.afi.com/members/catalog/DetailView.aspx?s=&Movie=54560 |
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Post by Salzmank on Feb 22, 2017 3:41:17 GMT
Have you tried contacting Warner Brothers Publishing? Music: Songs: "Just One of Those Things," "You Do Something to Me" and "Anything Goes," music and lyrics by Cole Porter, by arrangement with Warner Brothers Publishing. Composer: Cole Porter www.afi.com/members/catalog/DetailView.aspx?s=&Movie=54560An excellent suggestion, and one of which I'm embarrassed I hadn't thought before. In my defense, I had thought that someone from Soundtrack Collector had already done this, but, reading his post again, it seems he only contacted the Cole Porter HQ in New York. I have just now sent them an e-mail. Thanks, Carl! |
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Post by Salzmank on Feb 22, 2017 16:30:59 GMT
Hello, I think this is very, very strong evidence to suggest the songs were especifically re-recorded for the film. Maybe I'm not saying anything extraordinary here, but it's probably worth asking oneself why the filmmakers would want to use such an obscure version of a song in the movie. Wouldn't the original version be preferrable? If not, would it be because of the cost of licensing it or because of the need for it to match the dialogue and sound effects? Then, would the filmmakers go to the trouble of looking at tons of versions of Anything Goes until running into the one that was cheaper or that fit the film? Or would they just get the rights to re-record it (cheaper than getting an existing version) and have someone re-arrange and re-record them for the film? About the cost of the re-recording itself, look at this: (SOURCE: www.robin-hoffmann.com/tutorials/guide-to-working-with-a-film-composer/6-music-budget/)10-20 minutes per session. With this in mind, it's not unfeasible to think the benefits of re-arranging and re-recording could outweigh the money and time (= more money) required to find an suitable existing version. As you know, the IMDb lists Gary Hughes as music arranger for songs. He's uncredited in the film, but I think it's clear the credit implies he did the Cole Porter re-recordings. That's a lead to follow. Hughes has passed away, but I wonder if there's a way of finding out who submitted that information to the IMDb... Just one other point. I contacted IMDb to ask if they had any information about the person who had submitted Hughes's name, but they were wildly unhelpful. I understand their not giving out private contact information, even if they have it, but they wouldn't even respond to my question if Jim Marshall, who wrote the biography on Hughes's IMDb page, were an IMDb employee! |
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carlcarlson1
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Post by carlcarlson1 on Feb 22, 2017 21:36:56 GMT
This link only mentions Gary Hughes as composer and arranger. Perhaps following the info on this soundtrack list can provide frequent collaborators, vocalists, or contact information to leads. ringostrack.com/en/artist/gary-hughes/21824 |
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