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Post by spiderwort on Apr 17, 2017 21:17:23 GMT
One of the most interesting themes for me, filled with so much internal conflict and moral import. And the character change in the narrative arc is always so satisfying, even when sometimes sad.
Among my favorites and, I believe, among the best:
On the Waterfront (1954)
It's a Wonderful Life (1946)
Dead Man Walking (1995)
Remember the Night (1941)
Meet John Doe (1941)
There are so many more, I know. . .
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Post by mattgarth on Apr 17, 2017 23:43:09 GMT
For your consideration -- THE BRAVADOS. Gregory Peck as a self-appointed avenging angel who makes a terrible discovery about the bad guys that he has mercilessly tracked down and killed -- and now must find a way back.
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Post by mikef6 on Apr 18, 2017 1:56:47 GMT
Sidney Carton spectacularly redeems his life as a wastrel and alcoholic in “A Tale of Two Cities.”
Not a classic and a mediocre movie but Antoine Fuqua’s “The Replacement Killers” (1998) has a memorable scene near the end when the two title characters, career criminals Meg (Mira Sorvino) and John (Chow Yun-Fat) have to decide whether to go to the rescue of the young son of the detective who has hounded them all the way through or take the money and make a getaway. I couldn’t find the exact quote anywhere but Meg says something like this to John: “If we do this for him, then then maybe our lives, lived as we have, will finally have some meaning. We can live with a clear conscience.” And they ride off to the rescue.
Maybe a few more later when I have time to think about it.
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Post by teleadm on Apr 18, 2017 18:58:59 GMT
Henry Frankenstein (Colin Clive) in Frankenstein 1931, when he understands what he has done, but can't escape his guilt and responsibility. But only in that movie, not in the sequels, and certainly not in the Hammer series where the doctor (Peter Cushing) can't see he doing anything wrong.
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Post by jeffersoncody on Apr 18, 2017 22:15:21 GMT
One of the most interesting themes for me, filled with so much internal conflict and moral import. And the character change in the narrative arc is always so satisfying, even when sometimes sad. Among my favorites and, I believe, among the best: On the Waterfront (1954) It's a Wonderful Life (1946) Dead Man Walking (1995) Remember the Night (1941) Meet John Doe (1941) There are so many more, I know. . . Clint Eastwood's UNFORGIVEN (1992) CLint Eastwood's MILLION DOLLAR BABY (2004) Marc Foster's MONSTER'S BALL (2001) Scott Cooper's CRAZY HEART (2009) Frank Darabont's THE SHAWSHANK REDEMPTION (1994) Abel Ferrara's BAD LIEUTENANT (1992) Darren Aronofsky's THE WRESTLER (2009) |
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Post by london777 on Apr 19, 2017 0:05:46 GMT
Redemption is a bit more than "turning over a new leaf" or "being sorry for what you have done".
Henry Frankenstein (Colin Clive) in Frankenstein 1931, when he understands what he has done, but can't escape his guilt and responsibility.
In which case he is not redeemed. Redeemed people do not feel guilty, because it is not fruitful but negative. A big part of redemption is forgiveness, of yourself as well as of others.
For me it is closer to achieving an integrated psyche. It is a hard thing to portray in a film without appearing either sentimental or sanctimonious because it is internal. Easier to do in classical music. The resolution of conflicts in a symphony or string quartet are analogous to redemption.
Scott Cooper's CRAZY HEART (2009)
Yes, I think that was a good example.
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Post by Doghouse6 on Apr 19, 2017 0:17:23 GMT
Maybe a few more later when I have time to think about it. While you're thinking about it, Mike, your avatar might provide some inspiration. |
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Post by mikef6 on Apr 19, 2017 1:16:13 GMT
Maybe a few more later when I have time to think about it. While you're thinking about it, Mike, your avatar might provide some inspiration. lol. Of course. I can miss things that are right under my nose, as My Lovely Wife frequently tells me. Bogie did redemption more than once. In more than one film he plays a character that was defined in “Casablanca” as the cynical, world (or war)-weary guy who doesn’t care for anyone except himself. “I stick my neck out for nobody.” Of course, this has all changed by the end of the film. He essayed full-fledged versions of this character in “To Have and Have Not,” “Key Largo,” and in his last film, “The Harder They Fall.” There are also elements of his first-detached then-committed character in “The Maltese Falcon,” “The Big Sleep,” and “Chain Lightning.” I should point out that in each of these, he makes indelible, individual people out of what could have been just another film in which he plays the Bogart Guy. And moving on to others I thought of: A couple of pre-Bogart war-beaten pessimists who achieve redemption: Leslie Howard in "The Petrified Forest" (redemption is dealt out by Bogart, himself) Melvyn Douglas in "The Old Dark House" Others Takashi Shimura in “Ikiru” Bette Davis in "Jezebel" Bette Davis in "Dark Victory" Joseph Calleia in "Five Came Back" Rod Steiger in "Back From Eternity" That's all for now. I'll let somebody else name some.  |
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Post by pippinmaniac on Apr 19, 2017 2:17:41 GMT
How about "The Four Feathers" (1939)?
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Post by spiderwort on Apr 19, 2017 18:49:54 GMT
Redemption is a bit more than "turning over a new leaf" or "being sorry for what you have done". A big part of redemption is forgiveness, of yourself as well as of others. For me it is closer to achieving an integrated psyche. It is a hard thing to portray in a film without appearing either sentimental or sanctimonious because it is internal. Very much appreciate your comments, London. And I agree with you, especially with this: "For me it is closer to achieving an integrated psyche." I think that perfectly illustrates the theme as an internal, conflict-laden process that, indeed, integrates a fractured psyche. And it is hard to portray on film, but the best films with this theme, in my opinion, do it beautifully without being sentimental or sanctimonious (although I agree if done poorly that can, indeed, be the result). Thanks for articulating so well the deepest truth about this theme. And I didn't see Crazy Heart, though from what I've heard about it, it would seem to be a fine example. |
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Post by Doghouse6 on Apr 19, 2017 20:25:05 GMT
While you're thinking about it, Mike, your avatar might provide some inspiration. lol. Of course. I can miss things that are right under my nose, as My Lovely Wife frequently tells me. Joseph Calleia in "Five Came Back" Rod Steiger in "Back From Eternity" That's all for now. I'll let somebody else name some. Great call on Calleia in Five Came Back. A complex and multi-layered character, and Calleia's equally complex and deeply intelligent portrayal surely represents one of his finest hours (among so many). I don't recall the remake well enough to evaluate Steiger, but of course, the plot was the same. And thanks for being so nice about my gentle teasing. |
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Post by london777 on Apr 19, 2017 22:06:08 GMT
And I didn't see Crazy Heart, though from what I've heard about it, it would seem to be a fine example. Don't lose any sleep over it. It is a very good, but not great, movie. But jeffersoncody offered it as a film treating redemption, and I think he is right. Another possibility is Sling Blade (1996). |
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Post by london777 on Apr 19, 2017 22:44:32 GMT
Joseph Calleia in "Five Came Back" Great call on Calleia in Five Came Back. The main reason I visit this board (apart from the joy of trolling) is to be recommended films of which I am unaware. I then follow them up on IMDb, and if still interested, see if I can locate an affordable copy. On looking up Five Came Back I saw a note that the plane involved was a Capelis XC-12. Now it is over sixty years since I was a keen plane-spotter, but I know I had never heard of that type or that company. Following up on Wikipedia I found it had an interesting history. It was the designer's only project and its construction was funded by Greek restaurateurs (and all my life I have been spelling that word with an "n"). Only one prototype was built and it was found to be unsafe. It never saw service but was sold as a prop to RKO. It appeared in around a dozen movies, and a model built for flying sequences in a further eight. You could say that having failed in its primary mission it found redemption helping to entertain folks. John Farrow also directed the remake 17 years later. How often does that happen? I know Leo McCarey directed both Love Affair (1939) and its remake An Affair to Remember (1957). Any other examples? |
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Post by Doghouse6 on Apr 19, 2017 23:02:52 GMT
Great call on Calleia in Five Came Back. The main reason I visit this board (apart from the joy of trolling) is to be recommended films of which I am unaware. I then follow them up on IMDb, and if still interested, see if I can locate an affordable copy. On looking up Five Came Back I saw a note that the plane involved was a Capelis XC-12. Now it is over sixty years since I was a keen plane-spotter, but I know I had never heard of that type or that company. Following up on Wikipedia I found it had an interesting history. It was the designer's only project and its construction was funded by Greek restaurateurs (and all my life I have been spelling that word with an "n"). Only one prototype was built and it was found to be unsafe. It never saw service but was sold as a prop to RKO. It appeared in around a dozen movies, and a model built for flying sequences in a further eight. You could say that having failed in its primary mission it found redemption helping to entertain folks. Fascinating, london, and it's just such unexpected enlightenment that's among the reasons I enjoy it. You can never tell what you'll learn or when. It never occurred to me to wonder about its authenticity, but it was rather a distinctive-looking craft, wasn't it? Perhaps not quite as distinctive as the ungainly "Reindeer" in 1951's No Highway, the authenticity of which I did doubt. Nice tie-in to the topic, too; well done. |
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Post by london777 on Apr 19, 2017 23:07:03 GMT
You could say that having failed in its primary mission it found redemption helping to entertain folks. It was a bit of a stretch! |
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Post by Doghouse6 on Apr 19, 2017 23:16:52 GMT
Nice tie-in to the topic, too It was a bit of a stretch! Well, as a packrat who resists disposing of anything with the slightest conceivable use left in it, as well as someone with the tendency to anthropomorphize (I apologize to furniture I bump into), it appealed to me, stretch or no. |
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Post by mcavanaugh on Apr 20, 2017 14:26:46 GMT
"Schindler's List," apart from being perhaps the most powerful depiction of the Holocaust ever put on film, is about the redemption of Oskar Schindler. He starts out as a war profiteer, planning to use his money-making talents to make a fortune off the war. But when he sees what is happening to the Jews, his redemption begins, and he does everything he can and spends all the money he has to save as many Jews as possible.
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Post by mikef6 on Apr 20, 2017 15:54:57 GMT
And thanks for being so nice about my gentle teasing. I knew that was what it was. If this had been on the old threads and certain people would have written the exact thing, I would have replied with a crushing repartee. Thus far at this site everyone has been amazingly friendly, polite, and gently joking. I am will not be shocked when the trolls show up, but until then I will enjoy the ride. |
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Post by Salzmank on Apr 20, 2017 16:18:01 GMT
It was a bit of a stretch! Well, as a packrat who resists disposing of anything with the slightest conceivable use left in it, as well as someone with the tendency to anthropomorphize (I apologize to furniture I bump into), it appealed to me, stretch or no. Oh, Good Lord, Doghouse, for some reason this post makes me think of you as Jimmy Stewart in Harvey (may help that I recently watched it again), wandering around and apologizing, quite nicely, to the furniture. (I can just imagine Jimmy doing it, too: "Well..well, well...I just..I'm just trying to say sorry! Hope I haven't hurt your surface, Mr. Table.") Actually, though, I tend to do the same thing. |
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Post by Doghouse6 on Apr 20, 2017 16:37:25 GMT
And thanks for being so nice about my gentle teasing. I knew that was what it was. If this had been on the old threads and certain people would have written the exact thing, I would have replied with a crushing repartee. Thus far at this site everyone has been amazingly friendly, polite, and gently joking. I am will not be shocked when the trolls show up, but until then I will enjoy the ride. Thanks again. Mike. I was 99% sure it wouldn't be misinterpreted but, as Dana Andrews said in Laura, I had to get rid of that one percent doubt. It occurs to me that film might qualify at least loosely for the topic. The theme isn't central, but there does come the point when Laura, having existed for so long under Waldo's manipulation as his Galatea, finally asserts her independence. It also occurs to me that this theme may be represented, in at least a passing way, in what may be more films than not: a protagonist or major character develops or is transformed and benefited by events in some way that imparts a personal lesson and/or a different and better path for the future. Or would that be, as in london's phrase in an earlier reply, a bit of a stretch? |
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