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Post by njcardfan on Nov 7, 2019 8:31:47 GMT
This was, bar none, the greatest LCS of either league of all time even to this day and it isn't even close. Back then it was a 5 game series and 4 of the 5 games went to extra innings with the Phillies overcoming 8th inning deficits in both games 4 and 5 on the road. Game 5, Nolan Ryan had a 5-2 lead into the 8th inning and was something like 99-0 when entering the 8th inning for the lead only to see the Phils score 5 runs in the 8th to take a 7-5 lead but the pesky Astros tied it up in the bottom of the 8th. The Phils finally won it with doubles by Garry Maddox and Del Unser in the top of the 10th. Starting pitcher Dick Ruthven got the save in relief. I remember watching this series and to say it was a heart pounder was an understatement. No other LCS before or since had as much drama as this series had. This series was so emotionally draining that when the Phillies finally beat the Royals for their first ever World Series title, it was almost anti-climactic. The series went like this:
Game 1 @ Philadelphia: Phils-3 Astros-1
Game 2 @ Philadelphia: Astros-7 Phillies-4 (10 innings)
Game 3 @ Houston: Astros-1 Phillies-0 (11 innings)
Game 4 @ Houston: Phillies-5 Astros-3 (10 innings)
Game 5 @ Houston: Phillies-8 Astros-7 (10 innings)
Best play of the series, game 4 in the 10th inning game ties 3-3, Phillies had Pete Rose on 1st. Greg Lusinzki hits a screamer off of the left field wall and Rose, running all the way and through a stop sign, runs over now legendary manager Bruce Bochy planting his elbow on Bochy's grill in the process. Here is that play:
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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Nov 7, 2019 8:43:29 GMT
Before my time - but this description pretty much reminds me of how Lenny Dykstra used to play.
Two former Phils.
Two complete trainwrecks as human beings.
Think they're both always pretty much willing to do anything for a buck too -
Wonder if a celebrity boxing match has ever been discussed between the two of them.
I'd pay for it.
Don't know who I'd root for though unless it was one of those Rocky II moments where they both pretty much knock each other out - only both stay on the mat for the 10 count.
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Post by klawrencio79 on Nov 7, 2019 14:52:31 GMT
I'm partial to the 1986 NLCS for obvious reasons, but Game 6 of that series was probably the best single playoff game I've ever seen.
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Post by FrankSobotka1514 on Nov 7, 2019 15:42:02 GMT
I'm partial to the 1986 NLCS for obvious reasons, but Game 6 of that series was probably the best single playoff game I've ever seen. To refresh my memory I looked at the box score of that one. McDowell pitched 5 innings in relief, Orosco pitched 3. You’ll never see that again. Hell, if Kapler gets another job, in a similar situation he’d have his 5th outfielder closing the game. Pitchers were men back then. |
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Post by njcardfan on Nov 7, 2019 15:50:59 GMT
I'm partial to the 1986 NLCS for obvious reasons, but Game 6 of that series was probably the best single playoff game I've ever seen. I remember the '86 NLCS and it didn't have near the drama that the '80 series did. The '86 series was good and both featured the Astros but that series didn't have you on the edge of your seat like the '80 series did.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Nov 7, 2019 15:55:55 GMT
I'm partial to the 1986 NLCS for obvious reasons, but Game 6 of that series was probably the best single playoff game I've ever seen. To refresh my memory I looked at the box score of that one. McDowell pitched 5 innings in relief, Orosco pitched 3. You’ll never see that again. Hell, if Kapler gets another job, in a similar situation he’d have his 5th outfielder closing the game. Pitchers were men back then. What's the logic behind the way pitchers are used today? Is it simply analytics or is it just a shift in basic philosophy? The way pitchers were used even in the 1990s for example was radically different than pre-WWII. Are the times a-changing organically or have the bean counters ruined yet another element of sports?
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Nov 7, 2019 16:00:35 GMT
A few thoughts about that highlight. Rose is out by a mile with an accurate throw. Today that would be considered one of the dirtiest plays ever. Also, I'm not entirely sure Rose touched the bag rounding second.
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Post by klawrencio79 on Nov 7, 2019 16:02:20 GMT
To refresh my memory I looked at the box score of that one. McDowell pitched 5 innings in relief, Orosco pitched 3. You’ll never see that again. Hell, if Kapler gets another job, in a similar situation he’d have his 5th outfielder closing the game. Pitchers were men back then. What's the logic behind the way pitchers are used today? Is it simply analytics or is it just a shift in basic philosophy? The way pitchers were used even in the 1990s for example was radically different than pre-WWII. Are the times a-changing organically or have the bean counters ruined yet another element of sports? My understanding is that their entire training and fitness regiments are basically derived from their intended usage, so any straying from that would represent a dramatic shift from their pitcher's predictable capabilities. In other words, if a pitcher is only supposed to throw one inning, then his training is going to be geared towards short bursts of max effort. For starters, they're geared more towards endurance. Training is so methodically mapped out nowadays, not like even 20 years ago where guys just worked out and were in good shape and could pitch 8 innings or 1 inning all the same. I could be completely off, that's just how I've heard it explained to me by athletes and trainers in recent years.
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Post by FrankSobotka1514 on Nov 7, 2019 16:07:54 GMT
To refresh my memory I looked at the box score of that one. McDowell pitched 5 innings in relief, Orosco pitched 3. You’ll never see that again. Hell, if Kapler gets another job, in a similar situation he’d have his 5th outfielder closing the game. Pitchers were men back then. What's the logic behind the way pitchers are used today? Is it simply analytics or is it just a shift in basic philosophy? The way pitchers were used even in the 1990s for example was radically different than pre-WWII. Are the times a-changing organically or have the bean counters ruined yet another element of sports? In 2019 what pitcher would be allowed to pitch the “Jack Morris game?” Scherzer and Verlander and maybe Cole and that’s it? Three pitchers out of roughly 150 in the league. Every reliever now is a specialist. 7th inning lefties for one out. Such a waste of a roster space. As recently as the 2008 Phillies their average game went like this: starter for 7, Ryan Madson for the 8th, Lidge for the 9th. Sometimes throw JC Romero in there somewhere. That was it under ideal circumstances. Watch a 2018 Kapler game and it’s s complete joke. To me it’s the downside of analytics. |
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Nov 7, 2019 16:23:31 GMT
What's the logic behind the way pitchers are used today? Is it simply analytics or is it just a shift in basic philosophy? The way pitchers were used even in the 1990s for example was radically different than pre-WWII. Are the times a-changing organically or have the bean counters ruined yet another element of sports? In 2019 what pitcher would be allowed to pitch the “Jack Morris game?” Scherzer and Verlander and maybe Cole and that’s it? Three pitchers out of roughly 150 in the league. Every reliever now is a specialist. 7th inning lefties for one out. Such a waste of a roster space. As recently as the 2008 Phillies their average game went like this: starter for 7, Ryan Madson for the 8th, Lidge for the 9th. Sometimes throw JC Romero in there somewhere. That was it under ideal circumstances. Watch a 2018 Kapler game and it’s s complete joke. To me it’s the downside of analytics. I'd like to say there isn't an upside to analytics, but the Red Sox brass that have brought four titles the least 15 years after 86 years of nothing would tell me I'm wrong. I'm a basketball fan and I hate what analytics have done to that sport. Every 7'5" goon out of Ukraine is a volume three point shooter now because that's what 'the numbers' tell you to do. Take threes all night and whoever hits the most, wins. There's no mid-range game anymore. The better teams still move the ball well, but the end result is always to try to get a three. There's no value in a posting up at all. Shaq would be obsolete in today's NBA, how insane is that?
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Post by klawrencio79 on Nov 7, 2019 16:28:49 GMT
In 2019 what pitcher would be allowed to pitch the “Jack Morris game?” Scherzer and Verlander and maybe Cole and that’s it? Three pitchers out of roughly 150 in the league. Every reliever now is a specialist. 7th inning lefties for one out. Such a waste of a roster space. As recently as the 2008 Phillies their average game went like this: starter for 7, Ryan Madson for the 8th, Lidge for the 9th. Sometimes throw JC Romero in there somewhere. That was it under ideal circumstances. Watch a 2018 Kapler game and it’s s complete joke. To me it’s the downside of analytics. I'd like to say there isn't an upside to analytics, but the Red Sox brass that have brought four titles the least 15 years after 86 years of nothing would tell me I'm wrong. I'm a basketball fan and I hate what analytics have done to that sport. Every 7'5" goon out of Ukraine is a volume three point shooter now because that's what 'the numbers' tell you to do. Take threes all night and whoever hits the most, wins. There's no mid-range game anymore. The better teams still move the ball well, but the end result is always to try to get a three. There's no value in a posting up at all. Shaq would be obsolete in today's NBA, how insane is that? I think the impact of analytics on the game itself on a day-in, day-out basis are somewhat overstated, but the real impact is how teams are constructed, as you mentioned regarding the Red Sox. Analytics can help you decide between two players who have similar batting averages, HR and RBI totals but in reality are vastly different players who perhaps were buoyed by a great supporting cast, hindered by a poor supporting cast, helped out by a favorable ballpark, etc., things like that. Keith Law's book about this is really a great read for anyone who loves baseball and he gets into the good and bad of analytics (and I'm someone who never really paid much attention before that). I can't speak to how it's affected basketball. You can count on one hand the number of minutes of basketball I've watched during the last decade.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Nov 7, 2019 16:33:24 GMT
I'd like to say there isn't an upside to analytics, but the Red Sox brass that have brought four titles the least 15 years after 86 years of nothing would tell me I'm wrong. I'm a basketball fan and I hate what analytics have done to that sport. Every 7'5" goon out of Ukraine is a volume three point shooter now because that's what 'the numbers' tell you to do. Take threes all night and whoever hits the most, wins. There's no mid-range game anymore. The better teams still move the ball well, but the end result is always to try to get a three. There's no value in a posting up at all. Shaq would be obsolete in today's NBA, how insane is that? I think the impact of analytics on the game itself on a day-in, day-out basis are somewhat overstated, but the real impact is how teams are constructed, as you mentioned regarding the Red Sox. Analytics can help you decide between two players who have similar batting averages, HR and RBI totals but in reality are vastly different players who perhaps were buoyed by a great supporting cast, hindered by a poor supporting cast, helped out by a favorable ballpark, etc., things like that. Keith Law's book about this is really a great read for anyone who loves baseball and he gets into the good and bad of analytics (and I'm someone who never really paid much attention before that). I can't speak to how it's affected basketball. You can count on one hand the number of minutes of basketball I've watched during the last decade. And it totally makes sense considering how numbers-oriented baseball is. I absolutely see the value in it even if it's probably taken to extremes in some cases. But basketball kind of sucks now. It really is about who makes the most threes every night. Though I can't blame analytics entirely, as the NBA is so obsessed with the success of its best teams/players that defense has basically been taken out of the game completely and the officiating is borderline WWE quality these days.
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Nov 7, 2019 17:54:49 GMT
I'm partial to the 1986 NLCS for obvious reasons, but Game 6 of that series was probably the best single playoff game I've ever seen. The entirety of the 1986 playoffs were epic. Dave Henderson, Mike Scott, Bruce Hurst. Game 6 of the NLCS was epic. It had a Game 7 feel because the Astros had Mike Scott for Game 7 and everyone on the planet knew that the Mets couldn't hit Scott.
No doubt the '80 NLCS was great and it never gets enough love.
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Post by njcardfan on Nov 7, 2019 18:44:53 GMT
A few thoughts about that highlight. Rose is out by a mile with an accurate throw. Today that would be considered one of the dirtiest plays ever. Also, I'm not entirely sure Rose touched the bag rounding second. Couple of things. #1, as for it being a dirty play, it may have been but Bochy was blocking the plate and back then, when players weren't pussies, if you're a catcher blocking the plate, you better expect to get blown out. #2, yeah it's no secret that an accurate throw gets him but it wasn't an unmanageable throw. Bochy just botched it. He was putting on the tag before he caught the ball. And #3, as for he missing the bag, believe me, if you saw this series you'd know that they would have appealed as it was happening a lot during the last 2 games of this series. The Phillies actually had a appeal go their way.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Nov 7, 2019 19:10:09 GMT
A few thoughts about that highlight. Rose is out by a mile with an accurate throw. Today that would be considered one of the dirtiest plays ever. Also, I'm not entirely sure Rose touched the bag rounding second. Couple of things. #1, as for it being a dirty play, it may have been but Bochy was blocking the plate and back then, when players weren't pussies, if you're a catcher blocking the plate, you better expect to get blown out. #2, yeah it's no secret that an accurate throw gets him but it wasn't an unmanageable throw. Bochy just botched it. He was putting on the tag before he caught the ball. And #3, as for he missing the bag, believe me, if you saw this series you'd know that they would have appealed as it was happening a lot during the last 2 games of this series. The Phillies actually had a appeal go their way. Completely agree. It isn't a dirty play in my book, I'm just pointing out how much times have changed.
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Post by millar70 on Nov 7, 2019 19:50:10 GMT
Both the 1986 ALCS and NLCS are laughing at the 1980 NLCS.
Five games? Please......
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Post by njcardfan on Nov 7, 2019 21:54:47 GMT
Both the 1986 ALCS and NLCS are laughing at the 1980 NLCS. Five games? Please...... It was what it was. The 7 game LCS didn't start until 1985. But, yeah, you're obviously not old enough to remember the '80 series because it's universally looked at as one of if not the the greatest LCS of all time even at 5 games.
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Post by millar70 on Nov 7, 2019 22:29:57 GMT
Both the 1986 ALCS and NLCS are laughing at the 1980 NLCS. Five games? Please...... It was what it was. The 7 game LCS didn't start until 1985. But, yeah, you're obviously not old enough to remember the '80 series because it's universally looked at as one of if not the the greatest LCS of all time even at 5 games. I was 10 years old when that series took place, so I remember it. And it was a great series, I just think both of the 1986 ones were better. A case can also be made for the 1988 Dodgers/Mets NLCS, which was a pretty epic one. 1989 Giants/Cubs was also a great one. |
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Post by anthonyrocks on Nov 8, 2019 7:32:21 GMT
I actually think that the 1988 NLCS between the Los Angeles Dodgers and the New York Mets was Much Better.
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