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Post by Vassaggo on Aug 21, 2020 21:43:01 GMT
I kinda want just Cyclops, Marvel Girl, Angel, Beast, Iceman and Professor X in the first movie and for fuck sake no Magneto (which I know is kind of a bummer with that first grouping) and no Logan cameo. Was just giving my idea of where the characters should be in terms of age range. I see people keep putting the characters at ages they shouldn't be. Casting Rogue with 30+ year old actresses because they think they could do the accent and they are hot. Oh ok. Yeah some of the ages have been hit or miss all the way back to X1...
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Post by ThatGuy on Aug 22, 2020 0:27:43 GMT
Was just giving my idea of where the characters should be in terms of age range. I see people keep putting the characters at ages they shouldn't be. Casting Rogue with 30+ year old actresses because they think they could do the accent and they are hot. Oh ok. Yeah some of the ages have been hit or miss all the way back to X1... I think the problem was the budget. And their use of the budget. They already had a tight budget, but they still decided to change the comics by opening up the school and higher a bunch of kid actors (or was that an excuse). They made Iceman one of the students so he wouldn't be strong enough to ice up (I mean, he's just a version of the T-1000). With a full budget I'd like to see a fully realized Iceman. A Jean Grey that's strong without the Phoenix, but is a nightmare when she gets it.
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Post by Vassaggo on Aug 22, 2020 6:06:29 GMT
Oh ok. Yeah some of the ages have been hit or miss all the way back to X1... I think the problem was the budget. And their use of the budget. They already had a tight budget, but they still decided to change the comics by opening up the school and higher a bunch of kid actors (or was that an excuse). They made Iceman one of the students so he wouldn't be strong enough to ice up (I mean, he's just a version of the T-1000). With a full budget I'd like to see a fully realized Iceman. A Jean Grey that's strong without the Phoenix, but is a nightmare when she gets it. Yeah why I keep using Marvel Girl instead Phoenix in this thread. I love Femke but her being 9-10 years older than the James and her being what 35 in the first movie you are starting off mid adult. Which don't get me wrong I loved the first 2 movies. X2 is still in my top 5-10 movies. And they grabbed some good actors they just were starting off a little older than I'd like. It's a shame that they've kinda used Magneto too much because I really want to see the original Line Up for X-men. And he goes well with that line up. Rebooting the franchise after so many movies they've touched on a lot of the major villains but really leaned on Mags and Stryker. (which I can go a whole life time not seeing him again) I guess the only one I really want to see they haven't used is Mr. Sinister, but I don't see using him with an original line up of X-men though.
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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Aug 22, 2020 13:32:21 GMT
Was just giving my idea of where the characters should be in terms of age range. I see people keep putting the characters at ages they shouldn't be. Casting Rogue with 30+ year old actresses because they think they could do the accent and they are hot. Oh ok. Yeah some of the ages have been hit or miss all the way back to X1... The X-Men Trilogy: Scott Summers was born in 1965 - During X1 he was 34 years old. Jean Grey was born in 1966/1967 - During X1 she was 32/33 years old.
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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Aug 22, 2020 13:39:02 GMT
In 1999-2000, the teachers were: Scott/Cyclops - he knew how to use his powers. Jean Grey - in her "MARVEL GIRL" status, she knew how to use her powers. "Phoenix" was an alternate identity with full access to hidden abilities. Ororo Munroe/Storm - she knew how to use her powers. Wolverine, Rogue, Iceman, Nightcrawler, Colossus, Shadowcat, Angel were X-Men --- but not teachers. Beast was ahead of anyone of them, even. Rogue, Iceman, Colossus, and Shadowcat weren't X-men until X3 and even then they were rookies with their powers. Angel was only hiding out at the mansion and was not an X-man. You are proving my point with Jean being in her 40s and still being at X-men vol. 1 #1 stage. She should have been further than that. Cyclops was in his 30s and still getting his visor taken off on multiple occasions. Sabretooth should have killed Storm in the train station. By "The Last Stand", Iceman had mastered his ability and thus turned into his full ice humanoid form. He was very young. Colossus and Shadowcat were ENOUGH skilled with their primary powers. Shadowcat's secondary mutation (Chronokinesis) had not triggered YET. It's not Xavier's fault. She was 20 or so. Jean was 32/33 years old in X1. She was born in 1966/1967. She was 8 years old in 1975. She was 16/17 years old in 1983. She was skilled with her "MARVEL GIRL" powers, not the "PHOENIX" powers. Blame Xavier for that. Cyclops having the visor taken off.... LMAO what does that mean? That happens tons of times in the comics. That doesn't mean that he doesn't know how to use his optical blast. He's very skilled at it in X1, X2 and Dark Phoenix, indeed. Storm was pretty bad ass in X1. Sabretooth wasn't set to kill her anyway. Magneto was behind him. Again, your arguments are incorrect and inconsistent. Sorry for that.
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Post by ThatGuy on Aug 22, 2020 14:14:14 GMT
I think the problem was the budget. And their use of the budget. They already had a tight budget, but they still decided to change the comics by opening up the school and higher a bunch of kid actors (or was that an excuse). They made Iceman one of the students so he wouldn't be strong enough to ice up (I mean, he's just a version of the T-1000). With a full budget I'd like to see a fully realized Iceman. A Jean Grey that's strong without the Phoenix, but is a nightmare when she gets it. Yeah why I keep using Marvel Girl instead Phoenix in this thread. I love Femke but her being 9-10 years older than the James and her being what 35 in the first movie you are starting off mid adult. Which don't get me wrong I loved the first 2 movies. X2 is still in my top 5-10 movies. And they grabbed some good actors they just were starting off a little older than I'd like. It's a shame that they've kinda used Magneto too much because I really want to see the original Line Up for X-men. And he goes well with that line up. Rebooting the franchise after so many movies they've touched on a lot of the major villains but really leaned on Mags and Stryker. (which I can go a whole life time not seeing him again) I guess the only one I really want to see they haven't used is Mr. Sinister, but I don't see using him with an original line up of X-men though. The problem is that they tried to use Magneto the same as he was used in the early days of the comics in a time when Magneto is an event villain. He use to be there as their main villain. Now, when he shows up there is something major happening. It's like a Loki vs Thanos situation.
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Post by ThatGuy on Aug 22, 2020 14:45:46 GMT
Rogue, Iceman, Colossus, and Shadowcat weren't X-men until X3 and even then they were rookies with their powers. Angel was only hiding out at the mansion and was not an X-man. You are proving my point with Jean being in her 40s and still being at X-men vol. 1 #1 stage. She should have been further than that. Cyclops was in his 30s and still getting his visor taken off on multiple occasions. Sabretooth should have killed Storm in the train station. By "The Last Stand", Iceman had mastered his ability and thus turned into his full ice humanoid form. He was very young. Colossus and Shadowcat were ENOUGH skilled with their primary powers. Shadowcat's secondary mutation (Chronokinesis) had not triggered YET. It's not Xavier's fault. She was 20 or so. Jean was 32/33 years old in X1. She was born in 1966/1967. She was 8 years old in 1975. She was 16/17 years old in 1983. She was skilled with her "MARVEL GIRL" powers, not the "PHOENIX" powers. Blame Xavier for that. Cyclops having the visor taken off.... LMAO what does that mean? That happens tons of times in the comics. That doesn't mean that he doesn't know how to use his optical blast. He's very skilled at it in X1, X2 and Dark Phoenix, indeed. Storm was pretty bad ass in X1. Sabretooth wasn't set to kill her anyway. Magneto was behind him. Again, your arguments are incorrect and inconsistent. Sorry for that. Colossus just turns into bio organic metal. Nothing there. He just has an on and off switch. The only way to show that he doesn't know how to control his powers is if parts of his body turns to metal randomly or he turns back to flesh during a fight. Chronopathy (because she sends the person's mind back to an earlier version of themself) is not a thing from her. She has never had mental powers. They didn't even put in that her phasing can paralyze people. It would make more sense if she sent Logan back as a ghost that was phasing through time. What they did in the movie wasn't an evolution of her powers.
Again. Jean is a veteran rookie. She's in her 80s by this time and she's still at the point of teen Jean in the 1st comics.
It means that Cyclops got his visor taken off twice in X1 and you'd think by now he'd be use to it. Nah, he looked at the skylight in the train station for like 15 minutes before turning and closing his eyes. Veteran rookie. Pyro, Iceman, Kitty, and Jubilee would have done better in that situation. And his optic blast is always on. All he has to do is uncover his eyes. But to control it he has to know how to keep his eyes covered.
Magneto was behind him literally or figuratively? Because I just watched the scene and he wasn't there... Storm creates weather patterns. She doesn't need to actually start a storm to use lightning. So having her be useless until Cyclops opens the skylight is pretty bad.
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Post by ThatGuy on Aug 22, 2020 14:55:19 GMT
And back to color and costumes. Why is it that the villains are the ones that have color on them? Until (and only in) First Class, all the villains are the colorful and memorable ones while the X-men are all in black with colored piping in a design that didn't make a difference. The only ones with color on them were the ones considered monsters (Nightcrawler and Beast). The sentinels found them by mutant signature, yet they still wore black. Even the sleeves on Logan looked black so it made no difference that it was blue and gold.
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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Aug 22, 2020 14:57:21 GMT
By "The Last Stand", Iceman had mastered his ability and thus turned into his full ice humanoid form. He was very young. Colossus and Shadowcat were ENOUGH skilled with their primary powers. Shadowcat's secondary mutation (Chronokinesis) had not triggered YET. It's not Xavier's fault. She was 20 or so. Jean was 32/33 years old in X1. She was born in 1966/1967. She was 8 years old in 1975. She was 16/17 years old in 1983. She was skilled with her "MARVEL GIRL" powers, not the "PHOENIX" powers. Blame Xavier for that. Cyclops having the visor taken off.... LMAO what does that mean? That happens tons of times in the comics. That doesn't mean that he doesn't know how to use his optical blast. He's very skilled at it in X1, X2 and Dark Phoenix, indeed. Storm was pretty bad ass in X1. Sabretooth wasn't set to kill her anyway. Magneto was behind him. Again, your arguments are incorrect and inconsistent. Sorry for that. Colossus just turns into bio organic metal. Nothing there. He just has an on and off switch. The only way to show that he doesn't know how to control his powers is if parts of his body turns to metal randomly or he turns back to flesh during a fight. Chronopathy (because she sends the person's mind back to an earlier version of themself) is not a thing from her. She has never had mental powers. They didn't even put in that her phasing can paralyze people. It would make more sense if she sent Logan back as a ghost that was phasing through time. What they did in the movie wasn't an evolution of her powers.
Again. Jean is a veteran rookie. She's in her 80s by this time and she's still at the point of teen Jean in the 1st comics.
It means that Cyclops got his visor taken off twice in X1 and you'd think by now he'd be use to it. Nah, he looked at the skylight in the train station for like 15 minutes before turning and closing his eyes. Veteran rookie. Pyro, Iceman, Kitty, and Jubilee would have done better in that situation. And his optic blast is always on. All he has to do is uncover his eyes. But to control it he has to know how to keep his eyes covered.
Magneto was behind him literally or figuratively? Because I just watched the scene and he wasn't there... Storm creates weather patterns. She doesn't need to actually start a storm to use lightning. So having her be useless until Cyclops opens the skylight is pretty bad.
SHADOWCAT: this is the movieverse. Different universe, different Kitty Pryde. NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. Her Chronokinesis is an altogether different power, a secondary mutation, totally unrelated to the primary mutation. IN SOME WAY, you can just say that she can make anyone else's mental consciousness "slip" and "phase" throughout the past. That said, it's a different power, like EMMA FROST's binary mutation. JEAN GREY: blame Xavier for that. That's the whole point of the resurgence of her alternate personality in the guise of "PHOENIX". Xavier locked most of her power inside herself. Rewatch the movies. That's the whole point of the third movie. CYCLOPS: MOVIE-TIME. He had his eyes open for very few seconds, but that looked and felt "stretched" in the movie. NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. Also, we can assume that in the movieverse he regularly makes a struggle to close his eyes, because there's the flow of concussive energy coming from the interdimensional fissures (do you know how his powers work...?). THAT OCCURS IN THE COMIC BOOKS TOO. He's afraid to harm anyone. Sometimes, the optical blast "occurs". Why? He could close his eyes. Maybe it's not easy. STORM: nitpicking at its worst. She was confused. She had been weakened by Sabretooth and his HOLD. Magneto ordered him to incapacitate them, not kill them. That said, Victor's hold on Storm's neck was heavy. She didn't breath anymore, she was going to be suffocated by it. Plus, in the movieverse, she absorbs lightnings from the sky. Again, this nitpicking is lame. It's just for the sake of it. It doesn't hold water. I don't mean to offend you anyway.
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Post by ThatGuy on Aug 22, 2020 15:23:12 GMT
Colossus just turns into bio organic metal. Nothing there. He just has an on and off switch. The only way to show that he doesn't know how to control his powers is if parts of his body turns to metal randomly or he turns back to flesh during a fight. Chronopathy (because she sends the person's mind back to an earlier version of themself) is not a thing from her. She has never had mental powers. They didn't even put in that her phasing can paralyze people. It would make more sense if she sent Logan back as a ghost that was phasing through time. What they did in the movie wasn't an evolution of her powers.
Again. Jean is a veteran rookie. She's in her 80s by this time and she's still at the point of teen Jean in the 1st comics.
It means that Cyclops got his visor taken off twice in X1 and you'd think by now he'd be use to it. Nah, he looked at the skylight in the train station for like 15 minutes before turning and closing his eyes. Veteran rookie. Pyro, Iceman, Kitty, and Jubilee would have done better in that situation. And his optic blast is always on. All he has to do is uncover his eyes. But to control it he has to know how to keep his eyes covered.
Magneto was behind him literally or figuratively? Because I just watched the scene and he wasn't there... Storm creates weather patterns. She doesn't need to actually start a storm to use lightning. So having her be useless until Cyclops opens the skylight is pretty bad.
SHADOWCAT: this is the movieverse. Different universe, different Kitty Pryde. NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. Her Chronokinesis is an altogether different power, a secondary mutation, totally unrelated to the primary mutation. IN SOME WAY, you can just say that she can make anyone else's mental consciousness "slip" and "phase" throughout the past. That said, it's a different power, like EMMA FROST's binary mutation. JEAN GREY: blame Xavier for that. That's the whole point of the resurgence of her alternate personality in the guise of "PHOENIX". Xavier locked most of her power inside herself. Rewatch the movies. That's the whole point of the third movie. CYCLOPS: MOVIE-TIME. He had his eyes open for very few seconds, but that looked and felt "stretched" in the movie. NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. Also, we can assume that in the movieverse he regularly makes a struggle to close his eyes, because there's the flow of concussive energy coming from the interdimensional fissures (do you know how his powers work...?). STORM: nitpicking at its worst. She was confused. She had been weakened by Sabretooth and his HOLD. Magneto ordered him to incapacitate them, not kill them. That said, his hold on Storm's neck was heavy. She didn't breath. Plus, in the movieverse, she absorbs lightnings from the sky. Again, this nitpicking is lame. It's just for the sake of it. It doesn't hold water. I don't mean to offend you anyway. Everything is wrong with that. You don't just change a person's powers to fit the story when it doesn't make sense. They only put her there because she was in the original story. Even Bishop was stupid to put in that movie like they did. It was bone throwing like having Nightcrawler interact with Mystique for people that know they are mother and son in the comics. They might as well introduced Rachel or even have Rogue do it. Have that opening of the movie be them rescuing Rogue instead of them lounging around. One line of Rogue having dozens of unique powers because they used her to experiment on for the sentinels. There was no reason to send Logan back in time.
Emma's dual powers comes from the comics. It's pretty suspect that Kitty is the only one with a secondary mutantion. Emma in the movies was actually born with both powers.
No, he locked away the Phoenix persona (which is just her original memories in the prequels). He didn't dampen her telekinesis and telepathy. She was still powerful in Apocalypse. The reason in X1 was budget. And, again, it made her look like a veteran rookie.
That's not how Cyclops's powers work in the movies. There is no interdimensional rift in his eyes. His powers are the same as Havok's except they come from his eyes. His powers do not harm him so closing his eyes is no problem. He squeezes them shut to make sure there is not even a small opening that the blast can fit through.
Storm does not absorb lightning... What the hell... The electricity just doesn't harm her.
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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Aug 22, 2020 15:30:43 GMT
JEAN GREY: no, no, no. APOCALYPSE is another timeline. Xavier repressed MOST of her powers, and this created an alternate personality inside her. In the Original Timeline, the "PHOENIX" wasn't just a simple alternate personality unrelated to her powers, but a standalone conscious manifestation of her suppressed powers in the guise of an "alternate personality".
CYCLOPS: no, no, no. You can assume that there are interdimensional fissures like in the comic books. The concussive energy comes from a NON-ENSTEINIAN dimension. Even comic book Cyclops in some issues showed no control over the optical blast, because he couldn't close his eyes INSTANTANIOUSLY like we do.
STORM: Movieverse Ororo Munroe doesn't generate electricity, she's immune to it (of course) and she can channel it from the SKY. Natural electricity.
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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Aug 22, 2020 15:33:01 GMT
The original 1983 Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe volume stated that Cyclops' eyes contain inter-dimensional apertures, releasing powerful energies from another dimension into his own via the beams. This account states that his body naturally metabolizes ambient energy that is used to open and focus the apertures in his eyes. The energy of the beam itself originates from this other dimension. Cyclops's body is naturally immune to the force of his own beams.[156] His mind projects a psionic field that envelops his body rendering it immune to his optic beam, allowing him to shut it off by simply closing his eyes. Scott is also immune to the power of his brother Alex (Havok) who has the ability to emit waves of energy that heat the air into plasma. Likewise, Havok has demonstrated immunity to Cyclops's optic beam. Scott has been shown as being able to absorb Storm's lightning bolt, although this act caused Cyclops a great deal of pain.[157] The ruby quartz used in his battle visor has been said to resonate with his body's psionic field. Scott has only limited resistance to his brother Vulcan's powers.
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Post by bud47 on Aug 22, 2020 16:13:36 GMT
Rogue, Iceman, Colossus, and Shadowcat weren't X-men until X3 and even then they were rookies with their powers. Angel was only hiding out at the mansion and was not an X-man. You are proving my point with Jean being in her 40s and still being at X-men vol. 1 #1 stage. She should have been further than that. Cyclops was in his 30s and still getting his visor taken off on multiple occasions. Sabretooth should have killed Storm in the train station. By "The Last Stand", Iceman had mastered his ability and thus turned into his full ice humanoid form. He was very young. Colossus and Shadowcat were ENOUGH skilled with their primary powers. Shadowcat's secondary mutation (Chronokinesis) had not triggered YET. It's not Xavier's fault. She was 20 or so. Jean was 32/33 years old in X1. She was born in 1966/1967. She was 8 years old in 1975. She was 16/17 years old in 1983. She was skilled with her "MARVEL GIRL" powers, not the "PHOENIX" powers. Blame Xavier for that. Cyclops having the visor taken off.... LMAO what does that mean? That happens tons of times in the comics. That doesn't mean that he doesn't know how to use his optical blast. He's very skilled at it in X1, X2 and Dark Phoenix, indeed. Storm was pretty bad ass in X1. Sabretooth wasn't set to kill her anyway. Magneto was behind him. Again, your arguments are incorrect and inconsistent. Sorry for that. In every film they come off as rookies on their first mission. In the first film, the trio of Cyclops, Jean Grey and Storm had trouble dealing with Toad. Cyclops was getting kicked around, Storm got kicked down an elevator shaft and Jean just had him in a telekinetic hold not knowing what to do next. In X2, they needed help from Magneto and Mystique to deal with...a squad of human soldiers and...Lady Deathstrike? Each film ends with the hope of them finally becoming the team we've been waiting for, then the next film comes and they're back to being rookies learning how to use their powers again. Bunch of amateurs. Wolverine is the only one that knows what he's doing and even he gets neutered. With the MCU, we've got a fully formed and completely functional team in the first Avengers film and they've held that standard with their gained experience added throughout the later films.
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Post by ThatGuy on Aug 22, 2020 18:13:35 GMT
The original 1983 Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe volume stated that Cyclops' eyes contain inter-dimensional apertures, releasing powerful energies from another dimension into his own via the beams. This account states that his body naturally metabolizes ambient energy that is used to open and focus the apertures in his eyes. The energy of the beam itself originates from this other dimension. Cyclops's body is naturally immune to the force of his own beams.[156] His mind projects a psionic field that envelops his body rendering it immune to his optic beam, allowing him to shut it off by simply closing his eyes. Scott is also immune to the power of his brother Alex (Havok) who has the ability to emit waves of energy that heat the air into plasma. Likewise, Havok has demonstrated immunity to Cyclops's optic beam. Scott has been shown as being able to absorb Storm's lightning bolt, although this act caused Cyclops a great deal of pain.[157] The ruby quartz used in his battle visor has been said to resonate with his body's psionic field. Scott has only limited resistance to his brother Vulcan's powers. You can't have it both ways that this is and is not the comics version of the characters to fit your own narrative.
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Post by ThatGuy on Aug 22, 2020 18:26:17 GMT
JEAN GREY: no, no, no. APOCALYPSE is another timeline. Xavier repressed MOST of her powers, and this created an alternate personality inside her. In the Original Timeline, the "PHOENIX" wasn't just a simple alternate personality unrelated to her powers, but a standalone conscious manifestation of her suppressed powers in the guise of an "alternate personality". CYCLOPS: no, no, no. You can assume that there are interdimensional fissures like in the comic books. The concussive energy comes from a NON-ENSTEINIAN dimension. Even comic book Cyclops in some issues showed no control over the optical blast, because he couldn't close his eyes INSTANTANIOUSLY like we do. STORM: Movieverse Ororo Munroe doesn't generate electricity, she's immune to it (of course) and she can channel it from the SKY. Natural electricity. But he still did the same thing to both Jean Greys.
Like I said in my previous post about Cyclops, you can't chose which parts of the comics you want in the movies (when they are not explained as such in the movies) to fit your narrative of why things work in the movies. Cyclops is immune to his own powers because they are his powers. They are the same as Havok's. There is no other dimension. The same goes for Nightcrawler's teleporting.
In the 1st two movies, Storm controls the actual weather. She doesn't create the semblance of the weather. Not until X3 did she start shooting electricity from her hands. At that age in life, comic book Storm would have tossed Toad with a blast of wind or shot lightning at him from her hand. When he jumped on the railing she just looked at him with her hand up. Like bud47 said, Jean just holds him up like she won. They've said that they have fought the Brotherhood many times before. The SoL fight makes it like this is the 1st time they have ever fought them. She'd know about the slime he spits.
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Post by bud47 on Aug 22, 2020 18:52:59 GMT
JEAN GREY: no, no, no. APOCALYPSE is another timeline. Xavier repressed MOST of her powers, and this created an alternate personality inside her. In the Original Timeline, the "PHOENIX" wasn't just a simple alternate personality unrelated to her powers, but a standalone conscious manifestation of her suppressed powers in the guise of an "alternate personality". CYCLOPS: no, no, no. You can assume that there are interdimensional fissures like in the comic books. The concussive energy comes from a NON-ENSTEINIAN dimension. Even comic book Cyclops in some issues showed no control over the optical blast, because he couldn't close his eyes INSTANTANIOUSLY like we do. STORM: Movieverse Ororo Munroe doesn't generate electricity, she's immune to it (of course) and she can channel it from the SKY. Natural electricity. But he still did the same thing to both Jean Greys.
Like I said in my previous post about Cyclops, you can't chose which parts of the comics you want in the movies (when they are not explained as such in the movies) to fit your narrative of why things work in the movies. Cyclops is immune to his own powers because they are his powers. They are the same as Havok's. There is no other dimension. The same goes for Nightcrawler's teleporting.
In the 1st two movies, Storm controls the actual weather. She doesn't create the semblance of the weather. Not until X3 did she start shooting electricity from her hands. At that age in life, comic book Storm would have tossed Toad with a blast of wind or shot lightning at him from her hand. When he jumped on the railing she just looked at him with her hand up. Like bud47 said, Jean just holds him up like she won. They've said that they have fought the Brotherhood many times before. The SoL fight makes it like this is the 1st time they have ever fought them. She'd know about the slime he spits.
On a side note, I always thought it was funny in X2 when the team was watching the news and Cyclops jumps in saying "My guess, Magneto's behind it!" Yeah, no shit! Who the hell else have you gone up against!
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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Aug 22, 2020 19:33:31 GMT
By "The Last Stand", Iceman had mastered his ability and thus turned into his full ice humanoid form. He was very young. Colossus and Shadowcat were ENOUGH skilled with their primary powers. Shadowcat's secondary mutation (Chronokinesis) had not triggered YET. It's not Xavier's fault. She was 20 or so. Jean was 32/33 years old in X1. She was born in 1966/1967. She was 8 years old in 1975. She was 16/17 years old in 1983. She was skilled with her "MARVEL GIRL" powers, not the "PHOENIX" powers. Blame Xavier for that. Cyclops having the visor taken off.... LMAO what does that mean? That happens tons of times in the comics. That doesn't mean that he doesn't know how to use his optical blast. He's very skilled at it in X1, X2 and Dark Phoenix, indeed. Storm was pretty bad ass in X1. Sabretooth wasn't set to kill her anyway. Magneto was behind him. Again, your arguments are incorrect and inconsistent. Sorry for that. Well, that's called "FIGHTING". They are not invicible or unbreakable, and you should admit that the MCU HUMAN heroes like Black Widow and Hawkeye have PLOT ARMOUR and seem 100% superpowered and unbeatable wherever they are not. Chitauri say: "Hello!". X-MEN and X2 are more grounded, the X-Men can be beaten (TOAD has superhuman capabilities, not just a long tongue), but they eventually combine their powers, kick ass and win, like in each PERFECT final fight of the Original X-Men Trilogy. Cyclops, Storm and Jean Grey/Marvel Girl use their powers in a great way and they are very skilled on the battlefield, but they have no superhuman strength, speed, agility or stamina. They are basically soldiers in uniform. Sabretooth has superhuman strength, speed, agility and stamina. Toad has superhuman strength (in the legs), agility and ability to leap.
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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Aug 22, 2020 20:31:56 GMT
REAL STAKES. Human superheroes. Grounded superhero movies. That was X-MEN and X2. And they are PERFECT.
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Post by ThatGuy on Aug 22, 2020 20:45:47 GMT
Well, that's called "FIGHTING". They are not invicible or unbreakable, and you should admit that the MCU HUMAN heroes like Black Widow and Hawkeye have PLOT ARMOUR and seem 100% superpowered and unbeatable wherever they are not. Chitauri say: "Hello!". X-MEN and X2 are more grounded, the X-Men can be beaten (TOAD has superhuman capabilities, not just a long tongue), but they eventually combine their powers, kick ass and win, like in each PERFECT final fight of the Original X-Men Trilogy. Cyclops, Storm and Jean Grey/Marvel Girl use their powers in a great way and they are very skilled on the battlefield, but they have no superhuman strength, speed, agility or stamina. They are basically soldiers in uniform. Sabretooth has superhuman strength, speed, agility and stamina. Toad has superhuman strength (in the legs), agility and ability to leap. Black Widow is basically a lower level super soldier. The Red Room is just another version of the Winter Soldier program. Also, if you watch the movies, you see all of them getting tired as the fights go on. Is X1 grounded? They made a machine that is meant to turn people into mutants, but instead breaks down their body into water. Saying the X-men movies are grounded is like saying Lord of the Rings is grounded.
The X-men can be beaten because they are veteran rookies. Jean knows Toad's abilities because they have fought the Brotherhood before. And yet, she holds him up like his legs is his only mutant ability when she just saw he could have hit her with his tongue. She thought she won a fight. Rookie mistake. Slam him into a wall head first. That's like if Wanda just held Thanos up instead of crushing his armor on him.
I know what the problem is. They are wearing all black. Wearing black when you have a telepath to make you invisible is stupid to the eye and an electrokinesis to short out cameras is stupid. They rely too much on wearing black.
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Post by ThatGuy on Aug 22, 2020 20:50:53 GMT
REAL STAKES. Human superheroes. Grounded superhero movies. That was X-MEN and X2. And they are PERFECT. You know what Jean should have done, besides not wearing all black, was to make a telekinetic bubble around him. If he would have tried to spit his tongue or slime at her it would have slammed into an invisible wall. She held him up like a pet. It's all that black they are wearing. Hey, remember that time Iceman was in the Blackbird* and a flood was coming at them? You'd think that if she can control powers that she would have boosted his so they could freeze all that water. Musta been the black she was wearing.**
*Even the jet is a black.
**Trying to keep it on the costumes.
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