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Post by Skaathar on Nov 20, 2019 20:22:07 GMT
If you dislike MCU movies, this thread is not for you. If you believe DCEU and Fox X-Men movies are generally better than MCU movies, this is not for you either. If you think the MCU is ruining cinema, this is not for you. If majority of the threads you make in this forum are anti-MCU, this thread is definitely not for you.
This question is directed for those hardcore MCU fans who think the MCU generally creates the best superhero movies ever. Who feel that the praise the MCU gets is truly deserved. Who thinks that the MCU has completely left DC and Fox superhero movies in the dust (barring a few good ones from those studios).
And the question is this: What things irritate you the most about the MCU? What are your most legitimate complaints against the MCU?
P.S. - I actually consider myself a hardcore MCU fan, and I will contribute my own answer to this thread in a bit.
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Post by hobowar on Nov 20, 2019 20:28:51 GMT
Sometimes the action scenes go a bit far with the shaky cam in my opinion.
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Post by Vassaggo on Nov 20, 2019 21:24:03 GMT
While I will defend using Humor to allow juxtaposition, laughing in the face of fear, and allowing moments to be bitter sweet; They have on a few occasions undercut the drama a bit.
Sometimes they've leaned on RDJ too much. He was a great asset to have, and I understand why they did use him; but by using him as much as they did, (not in screen time but just quantity of uses) now there is a huge RDJ sized hole in the MCU. It was the same with the XMU too. They had a great asset in Hugh Jackman, but anytime he wasn't in a movie lots of people were like well where's Hugh?
And lastly I hated having to catch some people up. If one person hadn't seen everything (didn't effect me personally) then before the movie I had to fill them in on things they might've missed.
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Post by Dirty Santa PaulsLaugh on Nov 20, 2019 22:24:48 GMT
This question is directed for those hardcore MCU fans who think the MCU generally creates the best superhero movies ever.
I don't think they make the best superhero movies. I've only seen one that comes close to transcending the genre: The Dark Knight and even this does not go much beyond its cartoon aspect mostly due to Heath Ledgers's landmark performance.
And then, why should any of them attempt to do this? Like all fantasy, they are not grounded in reality. There is no real life analog to Batman or Thor like there is an Ethan Edwards in The Searchers or Rick Blaine in Casablanca. Though fictional characters, Edwards and Blaine are modeled on actual circumstances like going through the trauma of a family being murdered and a child abduction or the stresses of life during wartime. And there is no way Captain America is like Mister Roberts.
The closest we can come to superheroes modeled on "real" people would be Bible epics like Samson and Delilah. Though I think these are fictional characters, millions of people believe Samson really lived. Therefore a secondary question rises: how do superhero movies stack up against Bible movies and even Batman can't hold a candle to Ben-Hur.
What things irritate you the most about the MCU? What are your most legitimate complaints against the MCU?
Nothing really irritates me about any superhero movie no matter who makes it. It is what it is.
Can they be improved upon? Of course. More artistic and unique film techniques could be used rather then the generic classic Hollywood style. I would like to see the characters be more introspective with the heroes, much more conflicted about their existence and mission in life. What does being super mutated humans feel like and what is the relationship to the regular humans. And involve more mundane humans in the narrative...how does schmo who lives next door to Captain America feel about his neighbor? Girly stuff like that. I doubt even the DC fans would want to see this.
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Post by twothousandonemark on Nov 20, 2019 22:44:34 GMT
I'm not a hardcore MCU fan, but I'll play along. The MCU for me is certainly finer as the sum of its parts.
For me, I just don't care too much about several of the standalone installments... my 10 favs really kinda go hand in hand & frankly I don't need the rest. Oversaturation I suppose, & yet I don't have to watch them so that's pretty subjective.
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Post by hobowar on Nov 21, 2019 9:00:01 GMT
While most of them do, some of these movies don't quite work so well as standalone movies.
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Post by hobowar on Nov 21, 2019 10:07:16 GMT
They waste time trying clear up plot holes from previous movies which is most often more annoying than it is anything else.
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Post by hobowar on Nov 21, 2019 10:08:53 GMT
You can tell they "listen to the fans" which is the worst thing anyone can do.
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Post by Vassaggo on Nov 21, 2019 12:01:26 GMT
While most of them do, some of these movies don't quite work so well as standalone movies. One of the nurses at my doctor's office confided in me the first 2 MCU movies she watched was Infinity War her second was End Game. I quizzed her about her experience. And she said she enjoyed the movies she knew she missed a lot but she had a nice time. I told her she basically watched the season finale with no context. I told her the next time I saw her she better have started watching the others...
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Post by hobowar on Nov 21, 2019 12:41:40 GMT
While most of them do, some of these movies don't quite work so well as standalone movies. One of the nurses at my doctor's office confided in me the first 2 MCU movies she watched was Infinity War her second was End Game. I quizzed her about her experience. And she said she enjoyed the movies she knew she missed a lot but she had a nice time. I told her she basically watched the season finale with no context. I told her the next time I saw her she better have started watching the others... ... or you're going to give her an ass whoopin'?
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Nov 21, 2019 13:25:18 GMT
One of the nurses at my doctor's office confided in me the first 2 MCU movies she watched was Infinity War her second was End Game. I quizzed her about her experience. And she said she enjoyed the movies she knew she missed a lot but she had a nice time. I told her she basically watched the season finale with no context. I told her the next time I saw her she better have started watching the others... ... or you're going to give her an ass whoopin'? No, he just trailed off and left it open ended like that. Much more intimidating when you let their imagination run with it.
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Post by Dirty Santa PaulsLaugh on Nov 21, 2019 13:41:10 GMT
You can tell they "listen to the fans" which is the worst thing anyone can do. Yeah. Don’t listen to the fans. 🙄
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Post by Dirty Santa PaulsLaugh on Nov 21, 2019 13:43:32 GMT
They waste time trying clear up plot holes from previous movies which is most often more annoying than it is anything else. Plot holes? Or Chekhov’s guns to be addressed in the next episode?
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Post by Vassaggo on Nov 21, 2019 15:27:48 GMT
... or you're going to give her an ass whoopin'? No, he just trailed off and left it open ended like that. Much more intimidating when you let their imagination run with it. Lol. I have a foot and some change in height on her and probably 100lbs, but she has that Nurse who's seen it all vibe. I honestly don't think I could intimidate her if I tried.
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Post by Skaathar on Nov 21, 2019 18:52:54 GMT
Here's my contributions. I have 2 main gripes with the MCU movies:
1. Inconsistent power levels - I understand that there will always be inconsistencies with characters power levels in superhero movies, but the MCU movies of late have been getting really bad at this, especially with the Russo movies.
2. Similar female characters - while there are some outliers here and there, majority of the female MCU characters all seem to have the same personalities with small variations. They really need to up their game in diversifying the uniqueness of their female personalities.
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Post by scabab on Nov 21, 2019 19:04:14 GMT
Too many movies place a bit too much emphasis on humour. I don't see why they can't make a few more in line with Winter Soldier or even a R rated movie.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Nov 21, 2019 19:05:32 GMT
Here's my contributions. I have 2 main gripes with the MCU movies: 1. Inconsistent power levels - I understand that there will always be inconsistencies with characters power levels in superhero movies, but the MCU movies of late have been getting really bad at this, especially with the Russo movies. 2. Similar female characters - while there are some outliers here and there, majority of the female MCU characters all seem to have the same personalities with small variations. They really need to up their game in diversifying the uniqueness of their female personalities. Your first point happens in comics, too. It even happens in all action movies, not just CBMs. If every hero used their abilities to their maximum potential at all times, it makes storytelling difficult. Your second point I want to agree with, but I'm not sure I do. A lot of them have similar personality traits, but different personalities. Widow, CM and Gamora for example are all stoic, but each have their own way of expressing emotion when it's warranted. You couldn't switch them out for each other in their respective films and achieve the same chemistry with the other characters. (Though powerset also plays a role in that.) I'd say the real gripe is none of them get enough screen time. If they're spending 90% of their time simply reacting to what the male characters are doing, they're going to come across as generic. They need agency. That's something the MCU could work on. Give the women something to do without contrived scenes like the Endgame feminist march across the battlefield.
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Post by Skaathar on Nov 21, 2019 19:51:47 GMT
Here's my contributions. I have 2 main gripes with the MCU movies: 1. Inconsistent power levels - I understand that there will always be inconsistencies with characters power levels in superhero movies, but the MCU movies of late have been getting really bad at this, especially with the Russo movies. 2. Similar female characters - while there are some outliers here and there, majority of the female MCU characters all seem to have the same personalities with small variations. They really need to up their game in diversifying the uniqueness of their female personalities. Your first point happens in comics, too. It even happens in all action movies, not just CBMs. If every hero used their abilities to their maximum potential at all times, it makes storytelling difficult. Your second point I want to agree with, but I'm not sure I do. A lot of them have similar personality traits, but different personalities. Widow, CM and Gamora for example are all stoic, but each have their own way of expressing emotion when it's warranted. You couldn't switch them out for each other in their respective films and achieve the same chemistry with the other characters. (Though powerset also plays a role in that.) I'd say the real gripe is none of them get enough screen time. If they're spending 90% of their time simply reacting to what the male characters are doing, they're going to come across as generic. They need agency. That's something the MCU could work on. Give the women something to do without contrived scenes like the Endgame feminist march across the battlefield. I'm not asking them to be portrayed at their max capacities, I'm just asking them to be more consistent at the portrayal... or at the very least don't do something too extremely contradictory. For example, you have Spiderman completely stomping Falcon and Bucky but losing decidedly against Cap when we know Bucky can fight Cap almost to a stand still. We're shown Thor unlocking his powers and not being dependent on a weapon then the very next movie he's dependent on a weapon again. Ironman on his own gave a 4-stone Thanos a far better fight than IM, Cap and Thor were able to give a stoneless Thanos. Etc. As for the women: BW, Carol, Gamora, Sif, Peggy Carter, Valkyrie, Okoye and Wasp all fall under the tough, badass chick with a sassy attitude stereotype. All of them have a bit of humor but are stoic for the most part. All of them are tough and extremely capable but show a bit of tenderness here and there. And I will disagree with you, in that I do think they can be interchanged with each other with some tweaks to powerset and maybe a slight tweak to personality. It's not a big change in personality, more like a difference between your normal day and a day when you woke up slightly grumpier than usual. What I'm hoping for is that they come up with females that have more strongly defined and unique personalities like Wanda, Hela, Nebula and Mantis. |
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Nov 21, 2019 20:02:30 GMT
Your first point happens in comics, too. It even happens in all action movies, not just CBMs. If every hero used their abilities to their maximum potential at all times, it makes storytelling difficult. Your second point I want to agree with, but I'm not sure I do. A lot of them have similar personality traits, but different personalities. Widow, CM and Gamora for example are all stoic, but each have their own way of expressing emotion when it's warranted. You couldn't switch them out for each other in their respective films and achieve the same chemistry with the other characters. (Though powerset also plays a role in that.) I'd say the real gripe is none of them get enough screen time. If they're spending 90% of their time simply reacting to what the male characters are doing, they're going to come across as generic. They need agency. That's something the MCU could work on. Give the women something to do without contrived scenes like the Endgame feminist march across the battlefield. I'm not asking them to be portrayed at their max capacities, I'm just asking them to be more consistent at the portrayal... or at the very least don't do something too extremely contradictory. For example, you have Spiderman completely stomping Falcon and Bucky but losing decidedly against Cap when we know Bucky can fight Cap almost to a stand still. We're shown Thor unlocking his powers and not being dependent on a weapon then the very next movie he's dependent on a weapon again. Ironman on his own gave a 4-stone Thanos a far better fight than IM, Cap and Thor were able to give a stoneless Thanos. Etc. As for the women: BW, Carol, Gamora, Sif, Valkyrie and Wasp all fall under the tough, badass chick with a sassy attitude stereotype. All of them have a bit of humor but are stoic for the most part. All of them are tough and extremely capable but show a bit of tenderness here and there. And I will disagree with you, in that I do think they can be interchanged with each other with some tweaks to powerset and maybe a slight tweak to personality. It's not a big change in personality, more like a difference between your normal day and a day when you woke up slightly grumpier than usual. Thor knew he needed something more than lightning to defeat Thanos. Stormbreaker does more than Mjolnir ever did. He wasn't dependent on a weapon in general, but he needed firepower if he was going to take on a guy wielding infinity stones. Yeah Thanos was all over the place though, it really sticks out if you watch both films in a short time. Tony, Spidey and Star-Lord all have the same personality if you use broad generalizations like you did with the women. I'm not even saying you're wrong, I'm saying it goes both ways. Thor eventually morphed into that same personality. Drax isn't entirely different from Hulk. They should mix up their character traits in the next go round so every group doesn't have the same character dynamic and power structure.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2019 20:23:37 GMT
It's hard to know where I fit in. Let me start by saying Martin Scorsese is wrong when he says there's no risk involved. It's not my opinion. He's factually wrong, and the reason for that is as follows. Only a few MCU films are the best of their genre alone. I would argue none of them individually rise above a few other films like The Dark Knight. But as a unit, the MCU is an untried, untested new form of entertainment. I know 23 films in 10 years is a lot to take in, but it's all the same story. It's untested territory in terms of storytelling because its shared continuity through many films all adds up to one. The sequels and world building are all deliberate. There was no decades long hiatus between installments, no revitalizing the franchise for the second or third time. The MCU unfolds onscreen like individual chapters of a story with self-contained plot points of its own. It almost reads like an onscreen graphic novel. Ergo, these 23 films are all servicing the same story, ergo, they're all the same risk. One big risk, the likes of which has never been accomplished. The biggest onscreen hiccup in terms of behind the scenes bleeding into the product was recasting Terrence Howard with Don Cheadle. Otherwise, no other franchise comes close to the continuity. They're 23 movies but all in service of one story. Individually, they're hit and miss, but together, they're greater than the sum of their parts of any other franchise. Half the franchises going today could have ended with their original run. All 23 of these films are its original run.
The drawbacks are you have to see them to know what's up. All of them, no exceptions. To maintain that kind of a presence, you gotta throw down a little muscle, lest the next installment be their last (which could happen at any time, for any reason). So it's understandable to me that film goers and industry insiders resent the MCU's omnipresence.
My criticisms are almost always the same. Anything that's good could be better. There are times where they undercut their own dramatic tension for comedy relief and go too balls out on the CGI. My real big looming criticism of the MCU is the individual personality from the directors. They're following Disney's instructions to a T and belting out technical feat after technical feat, but I'm missing the individual quirks and tropes that establish directors as unique creatures. With the exception of Taika Watiti (and perhaps Joss Whedon), almost all the films look like they could be directed by the same team. Like the Russo brothers. I'm in their debt because of what they did with the franchise, but between the Captain America's, Avengers' and Community, I can't tell what makes a Russo Brother's property distinctly Russo Brothers. Does that make sense?
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