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Post by Prime etc. on Dec 6, 2019 1:12:15 GMT
Wow, so the Vatican, Martin Luther and all those Christian fundie idiots are Middle Eastern? Their religion is. Pretty stupid to believe the "Holy Land" is half way around the world. Makes no practical sense. No wonder it is called a slave religion.
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Post by gameboy on Dec 6, 2019 1:19:07 GMT
Wow, so the Vatican, Martin Luther and all those Christian fundie idiots are Middle Eastern? Their religion is. Pretty stupid to believe the "Holy Land" is half way around the world. Makes no practical sense. No wonder it is called a slave religion.
Well, my point is that it's become so thoroughly Europeanized.
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Post by Prime etc. on Dec 6, 2019 1:24:42 GMT
Well, my point is that it's become so thoroughly Europeanized.
The idea of redemption and seasonal renewal (resurrection) is European but the alienation from Nature is totally not European. Christianity was on life support when Martin Luther did his own revision but as we see it is thoroughly fucked up nowadays--getting even more exotic and erratic. It can't reconcile Islamic sex slavery with Christianity even though the Bible condones slavery. That's because Europe did not have Oriental-style slavery (and why it was Christians who took the lead against slavery, not Jews or Muslims).
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Post by gameboy on Dec 6, 2019 5:56:35 GMT
Well, my point is that it's become so thoroughly Europeanized.
The idea of redemption and seasonal renewal (resurrection) is European but the alienation from Nature is totally not European. Christianity was on life support when Martin Luther did his own revision but as we see it is thoroughly fucked up nowadays--getting even more exotic and erratic. It can't reconcile Islamic sex slavery with Christianity even though the Bible condones slavery. That's because Europe did not have Oriental-style slavery (and why it was Christians who took the lead against slavery, not Jews or Muslims).
Resurrection comes from Egyptian religion as well with Osiris. But Egypt heavily influenced European civilizations. I actually don't see alienation from nature as non-European. I would say the opposite. Europeans try and isolate themselves from nature. Western technology came from manipulation of nature. Earth religions which worship mother goddesses are more tied to nature and fertility cults. Judaism and later Christianity are Sky God religions which put man above nature. The Bible merely accepts slavery because it existed in the world at the time and was not considered an issue. I don't see that the Bible advocates or condones slavery. It doesn't address it as it's not seen as a spiritual issue.
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Post by Prime etc. on Dec 6, 2019 8:07:56 GMT
Resurrection comes from Egyptian religion as well with Osiris. But Egypt heavily influenced European civilizations. I actually don't see alienation from nature as non-European. I would say the opposite. Europeans try and isolate themselves from nature. Western technology came from manipulation of nature. Earth cults which worship mother goddesses are more tied to nature and fertility cults. Judaism and later Christianity are Sky God religions which put man above nature. The Bible merely accepts slavery because it existed in the world at the time and was not considered an issue. I don't see that the Bible advocates or condones slavery. It doesn't address it as it's not seen as a spiritual issue. Resurrection also comes from Babylonian and Assyrian religions but in Europe it is linked to seasonal renewal. This is the only reason the Jesus story is barely palatable-it made adjustments to satisfy local custom (i.e. the promotion of Mary-a fertility figure, to suggest a mother goddess aspect--but the "cover your head" stuff is totally oriental and not aryan--might even be dictated by desert living which is another reason it makes no sense to have it as a guidebook for Europe--the so-called "Holy Land" is one big bloodbath arena). Technology isolates people from Nature but that is different issue from a religious system. The religious system of Christianity helps condone that isolation (whether it has much propaganda effect is debatable--perhaps it never did but since the church structure is bureaucratic and corrupt it certainly does not help--like the persecution of mid wives to pave the way for modern medicine which caused many deaths due to doctors having bad hygiene--not a problem for midwives).
The Bible has specific passages on the proper way to beat a slave.
Beating and Killing Slaves: Although an owner could beat a male or female slave, she/he would have to avoid serious injury to eyes or teeth. The owner would have to avoid beating the slave to death. But it was acceptable to beat a slave so that he/she was mortally injured and died a day or so later: Exodus 21:20-21 "And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money [property]."
Not a book of morality.
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Post by gameboy on Dec 7, 2019 7:10:56 GMT
Resurrection comes from Egyptian religion as well with Osiris. But Egypt heavily influenced European civilizations. I actually don't see alienation from nature as non-European. I would say the opposite. Europeans try and isolate themselves from nature. Western technology came from manipulation of nature. Earth cults which worship mother goddesses are more tied to nature and fertility cults. Judaism and later Christianity are Sky God religions which put man above nature. The Bible merely accepts slavery because it existed in the world at the time and was not considered an issue. I don't see that the Bible advocates or condones slavery. It doesn't address it as it's not seen as a spiritual issue. Resurrection also comes from Babylonian and Assyrian religions but in Europe it is linked to seasonal renewal. This is the only reason the Jesus story is barely palatable-it made adjustments to satisfy local custom (i.e. the promotion of Mary-a fertility figure, to suggest a mother goddess aspect--but the "cover your head" stuff is totally oriental and not aryan--might even be dictated by desert living which is another reason it makes no sense to have it as a guidebook for Europe--the so-called "Holy Land" is one big bloodbath arena). Technology isolates people from Nature but that is different issue from a religious system. The religious system of Christianity helps condone that isolation (whether it has much propaganda effect is debatable--perhaps it never did but since the church structure is bureaucratic and corrupt it certainly does not help--like the persecution of mid wives to pave the way for modern medicine which caused many deaths due to doctors having bad hygiene--not a problem for midwives).
The Bible has specific passages on the proper way to beat a slave.
Beating and Killing Slaves: Although an owner could beat a male or female slave, she/he would have to avoid serious injury to eyes or teeth. The owner would have to avoid beating the slave to death. But it was acceptable to beat a slave so that he/she was mortally injured and died a day or so later: Exodus 21:20-21 "And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money [property]."
Not a book of morality.
However most European Protestant denominations have removed the special status given to Mary by the Catholic Church. So that works against your idea that harvest and season are intrinsically European religious ideas. And I don't think you can separate that Europeans excelled in technology like no other culture without considering the religion which shaped European society. On the issue of killing slaves, the Bible was the first to say a master should be punished for killing a slave. That was a moral step forward in ancient slave societies.
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Post by Prime etc. on Dec 7, 2019 7:22:53 GMT
However most European Protestant denominations have removed the special status given to Mary by the Catholic Church. So that works against your idea that harvest and season are intrinsically European religious ideas. And I don't think you can separate that Europeans excelled in technology like no other culture without considering the religion which shaped European society. On the issue of killing slaves, the Bible was the first to say a master should be punished for killing a slave. That was a moral step forward in ancient slave societies. It means the Protestant churches are seeking to make themselves distinct from the Catholic Church but it doesn't change the initial reason. They couldn't have women in such a negative role a 1000 years ago when you have midwives and other matriarchal structures. They needed to sugar coat the foreign philosophy (at least until they could get enough power to start destroying the matriarchal element).
Protestants like Catholics are bureaucratic and universalist. They still use the same Middle Eastern text book.
Technology existed in pagan times as well--they aren't even sure how Stonehenge was built. Not much of a moral step when the same book says its ok to massacre entire nations.
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