|
|
Post by Toasted Cheese on Dec 17, 2019 9:24:36 GMT
Not a bad interview—is 30 mins—and I don't mind watching Cathy Newman, but she does tend to ask black and white questions when rattled, as though it can then be answered as an absolute when there are other factors at play that make up the entire equation. That is her way of trying to get one-upmanship on someone who is smarter than her. She also got rattled and lost for words when she was processing something Jordan said about causing offense when they were discussing transgender issues. The truth in this instance is what he said, the truth. You can't argue with an absolute and she was literally choking to respond.
Peterson knows his stuff and for the most part remains very conducted and calm. He speaks things for what they are, not for what they get painted out to be and are supposed to represent. The gender pay gap has always been a contentious issue, but is always easy to debunk, but some people, feminists mostly, just cling to it as though it is what they hang their entire movement onto to make their phony claims look credible.
Equality of opportunity, nice for those that wish to pursue certain careers that are highly driven, but equality of outcome is a fallacy. The opportunity is never going to determine the consequence of outcome which is and always has a capricious and unpredictable nature. It is about wanting to control the outcome, when it will become what it is. This is really about some feminists saying we want this as a given because of our gender, not because of cutting the mustard and willingness to play the game.
Expecting men to be more like women to even the playing field, is because they aren't prepared to be more like men, because of the differences in gender dynamic. It is absurd to think that men are going to change to become something women think they should be due to some sort of arrogant entitlement.
|
|
|
|
Post by gameboy on Dec 17, 2019 19:18:21 GMT
But there is no pay gap anymore. The oppressed class now is the working class white male.
|
|
|
|
Post by Toasted Cheese on Dec 17, 2019 22:19:24 GMT
But there is no pay gap anymore. The oppressed class now is the working class white male. That is where they want us. It is about top end white collar vocations that feminists focus on. They are not interested in equality within the trades and construction and heavy duty labour roles. This is the domain where women are not largely interested. Even many males do not want to do these jobs. It is about having men serve the system and being dominated over. Feminists want equality of outcome manipulated on their own selective terms. Equality is just a ruse. It can’t and won’t ever exist in this world. Too many differences dictate.
|
|
|
|
Post by gameboy on Dec 18, 2019 3:59:30 GMT
But there is no pay gap anymore. The oppressed class now is the working class white male. That is where they want us. It is about top end white collar vocations that feminists focus on. They are not interested in equality within the trades and construction and heavy duty labour roles. This is the domain where women are not largely interested. Even many males do not want to do these jobs. It is about having men serve the system and being dominated over. Feminists want equality of outcome manipulated on their own selective terms. Equality is just a ruse. It can’t and won’t ever exist in this world. Too many differences dictate. Actually I don't want to sound like the proverbial "angry white male" because I'm not. White males are the most privileged human beings on earth. But what annoys me is that white females from privileged middle class backgrounds have manipulated affirmative action. No one helps the working class white male. Women are now almost 60% of college graduates and are dominating new management positions. Working class males are digging ditches and working construction. How many women do you see doing construction or highway maintenance? Zero.
|
|
|
|
Post by Prime etc. on Dec 18, 2019 4:11:46 GMT
Actually I don't want to sound like the proverbial "angry white male" because I'm not. White males are the most privileged human beings on earth. But what annoys me is that white females from privileged middle class backgrounds have manipulated affirmative action. No one helps the working class white male. Women are now almost 60% of college graduates and are dominating new management positions. Working class males are digging ditches and working construction. How many women do you see doing construction or highway maintenance? Zero. Were white males privileged when they were sent to war or forced to stay on the Titanic (even the rich ones?)? The privilege thing is just another attack on the society.
The other factor is, how many of those 40% of male college graduates are not white males? The imported foreign replacement is another assault--and I doubt Peterson talks about that since it doesn't fit the controlled oppo agenda he follows.
|
|
|
|
Post by Toasted Cheese on Dec 18, 2019 4:29:45 GMT
Actually I don't want to sound like the proverbial "angry white male" because I'm not. White males are the most privileged human beings on earth. But what annoys me is that white females from privileged middle class backgrounds have manipulated affirmative action. No one helps the working class white male. Women are now almost 60% of college graduates and are dominating new management positions. Working class males are digging ditches and working construction. How many women do you see doing construction or highway maintenance? Zero. Were white males privileged when they were sent to war or forced to stay on the Titanic (even the rich ones?)? The privilege thing is just another attack on the society.
The other factor is, how many of those 40% of male college graduates are not white males? The imported foreign replacement is another assault--and I doubt Peterson talks about that since it doesn't fit the controlled oppo agenda he follows. Prime, could you please elaborate by what you mean here?
|
|
|
|
Post by Sarge on Dec 18, 2019 5:42:38 GMT
3 minutes in and he's rambling, I'm out. JP has some great ideas and some stupid ideas but the stupid ideas get him the most attention so I'm never sure if he's sincere or just attention whoring.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jayman on Dec 18, 2019 5:55:14 GMT
the most telling part of the interview is when she asked why should his right to free speech trump a trans person's right to not be offended. That is the whole problem with what is happening on campuses and within our society. People really believe they have a right to never hear any point of view that they don't agree with. When you have a group of people that are looking for things to be offended by, that shuts down any conversation between two people that disagree.
|
|
|
|
Post by Sarge on Dec 18, 2019 6:31:18 GMT
the most telling part of the interview is when she asked why should his right to free speech trump a trans person's right to not be offended. That is the whole problem with what is happening on campuses and within our society. People really believe they have a right to never hear any point of view that they don't agree with. When you have a group of people that are looking for things to be offended by, that shuts down any conversation between two people that disagree. I agree and it's all age groups but it isn't anything new or worse than the past, it's just worse than it was in our past. 24 hour news brings loads of bad news and even though our conscious mind knows these things are not happening outside our door (for most of us), our unconscious mind interprets it as our environment being dangerous and so people begin to believe the world is more dangerous, but what changed is our perception of reality, not the world. In fact violence has been declining for centuries and politics are less intense now than 150 years ago (I believe one of the Republican reps spoke to this fact during the impeachment hearing).
|
|
|
|
Post by Jayman on Dec 18, 2019 6:38:35 GMT
the most telling part of the interview is when she asked why should his right to free speech trump a trans person's right to not be offended. That is the whole problem with what is happening on campuses and within our society. People really believe they have a right to never hear any point of view that they don't agree with. When you have a group of people that are looking for things to be offended by, that shuts down any conversation between two people that disagree. I agree and it's all age groups but it isn't anything new or worse than the past, it's just worse than it was in our past. 24 hour news brings loads of bad news and even though our conscious mind knows these things are not happening outside our door (for most of us), our unconscious mind interprets it as our environment being dangerous and so people begin to believe the world is more dangerous, but what changed is our perception of reality, not the world. In fact violence has been declining for centuries and politics are less intense now than 150 years ago (I believe one of the Republican reps spoke to this fact during the impeachment hearing). I think it has more to do with how people were raised as well as the whole group think mentality where everybody riles each other up on the internet into thinking everybody is pure evil and scum except for the people that agree with them. The big difference as opposed to the past was the mentality of "I don't agree with what you say but I will defend to the death his right to say it", has now morphed into "I don't agree with what you say and I will defend to the death my right to stop you from saying it"
|
|
|
|
Post by gameboy on Dec 18, 2019 7:00:02 GMT
Actually I don't want to sound like the proverbial "angry white male" because I'm not. White males are the most privileged human beings on earth. But what annoys me is that white females from privileged middle class backgrounds have manipulated affirmative action. No one helps the working class white male. Women are now almost 60% of college graduates and are dominating new management positions. Working class males are digging ditches and working construction. How many women do you see doing construction or highway maintenance? Zero. Were white males privileged when they were sent to war or forced to stay on the Titanic (even the rich ones?)? The privilege thing is just another attack on the society.
The other factor is, how many of those 40% of male college graduates are not white males? The imported foreign replacement is another assault--and I doubt Peterson talks about that since it doesn't fit the controlled oppo agenda he follows.
Combat soldiers are always going to be 99% male if there are any women at all who can do it. That's just a fact of gender which feminists and gender neutralists can't change. My point is that women and white women especially from middle class backgrounds are given an extra bonus with affirmative action which gives them an unfair advantage. They are filling white collar and professional positions because they are physically unable to do physical grunt work. The hard labor jobs are being filled almost exclusively by men. This is creating a gender imbalance which supersedes white male privilege though I admit that such privilege does exist. I propose that affirmative action based on gender be completely done away with. And there should be more outreach and recruitment of displaced working class males.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jayman on Dec 18, 2019 7:49:46 GMT
Not a bad interview—is 30 mins—and I don't mind watching Cathy Newman, but she does tend to ask black and white questions when rattled, as though it can then be answered as an absolute when there are other factors at play that make up the entire equation. That is her way of trying to get one-upmanship on someone who is smarter than her. She also got rattled and lost for words when she was processing something Jordan said about causing offense when they were discussing transgender issues. The truth in this instance is what he said, the truth. You can't argue with an absolute and she was literally choking to respond.
Peterson knows his stuff and for the most part remains very conducted and calm. He speaks things for what they are, not for what they get painted out to be and are supposed to represent. The gender pay gap has always been a contentious issue, but is always easy to debunk, but some people, feminists mostly, just cling to it as though it is what they hang their entire movement onto to make their phony claims look credible.
Equality of opportunity, nice for those that wish to pursue certain careers that are highly driven, but equality of outcome is a fallacy. The opportunity is never going to determine the consequence of outcome which is and always has a capricious and unpredictable nature. It is about wanting to control the outcome, when it will become what it is. This is really about some feminists saying we want this as a given because of our gender, not because of cutting the mustard and willingness to play the game.
Expecting men to be more like women to even the playing field, is because they aren't prepared to be more like men, because of the differences in gender dynamic. It is absurd to think that men are going to change to become something women think they should be due to some sort of arrogant entitlement.
to me it seemed like she went in there with a plan to expose him as some kind of misogynist and when that fell apart it seemed like she was purposely misinterpreting everything he said and in some cases appeared to not even have listened to what he said. She caught so much flack for that interview and rightfully so |
|
|
|
Post by Sarge on Dec 18, 2019 8:07:00 GMT
I agree and it's all age groups but it isn't anything new or worse than the past, it's just worse than it was in our past. 24 hour news brings loads of bad news and even though our conscious mind knows these things are not happening outside our door (for most of us), our unconscious mind interprets it as our environment being dangerous and so people begin to believe the world is more dangerous, but what changed is our perception of reality, not the world. In fact violence has been declining for centuries and politics are less intense now than 150 years ago (I believe one of the Republican reps spoke to this fact during the impeachment hearing). I think it has more to do with how people were raised as well as the whole group think mentality where everybody riles each other up on the internet into thinking everybody is pure evil and scum except for the people that agree with them. The big difference as opposed to the past was the mentality of "I don't agree with what you say but I will defend to the death his right to say it", has now morphed into "I don't agree with what you say and it is my god given right to never have to hear it and I am willing to die trying to have your speech shut down" Within our lifetime, but these things wax and wane. Sure when I was a kid people were more polite about disagreements but I was also a kid and had no concerns except fun. I was insulated and surrounded by people who thought like everyone else I knew until my mid 20s so of course there was little disagreement. I had few responsibilities until my 30s when I settled and started a family. With responsibilities came stress. As the decades roll by my mood doesn't improve, taxes go up, my knees crack, and our culture shifts further from my youth leaving me feeling mortal and alienated. So from my perspective, times are worse than when I was young but I've always been a contrarian even to myself and so I know it's me that changed not the world. Old men complain about young men, it goes back to the earliest days of writing. My dad complained about teenagers, they are lazy, immature, can't count change, coddled in school, blah, blah, blah; those teenagers are now old men complaining about teenagers, just like JP in the video. |
|
|
|
Post by Prime etc. on Dec 18, 2019 8:43:18 GMT
Prime, could you please elaborate by what you mean here? Immigration would also be a factor in loss of jobs, college placements etc for white males. I know this is true in Canada where Chinese often fill up university placement and criticism is met with the advice that Canadians give up their private lives to study like Chinese. That seems rather audacious-telling them to change their lifestyle to match that of the new arrivals.
I heard even with old European countries they face similar situations--there was a recent court case where someone was denied a job in the UK police because there was an ethnic diversity initiative but due to the fact that his father was a detective he was able to make a case of it. What about people who have no such family connections? How many are losing jobs this way?
Not a good sign if they have to fight for jobs due to mass immigration. Immigration is also used to justify reducing salaries.
As for Peterson, I have heard him speak and he sounds way too middle of the road--trying to direct people to things other than immigration policy which is the elephant in the room. Not that the attack on white males isn't important but I suspect he is trying to channel things into a white men vs white women/LGBT/pronoun clash and the problems go beyond that.
|
|
|
|
Post by Toasted Cheese on Dec 18, 2019 10:09:55 GMT
Prime, could you please elaborate by what you mean here? Immigration would also be a factor in loss of jobs, college placements etc for white males. I know this is true in Canada where Chinese often fill up university placement and criticism is met with the advice that Canadians give up their private lives to study like Chinese. That seems rather audacious-telling them to change their lifestyle to match that of the new arrivals.
I heard even with old European countries they face similar situations--there was a recent court case where someone was denied a job in the UK police because there was an ethnic diversity initiative but due to the fact that his father was a detective he was able to make a case of it. What about people who have no such family connections? How many are losing jobs this way?
Not a good sign if they have to fight for jobs due to mass immigration. Immigration is also used to justify reducing salaries.
As for Peterson, I have heard him speak and he sounds way too middle of the road--trying to direct people to things other than immigration policy which is the elephant in the room. Not that the attack on white males isn't important but I suspect he is trying to channel things into a white men vs white women/LGBT/pronoun clash and the problems go beyond that. Mass immigration has always been a contentious issue and that is one of the main reasons why the Brits voted for Brexit. Yes, fearful of losing jobs to migrants. The elephant in the room is getting pushed aside by those that have their own self-serving agendas and then we are promoted with all this distracting gender inequality conundrum s<>t. Peterson knows what he is talking about, but perhaps is playing it safe to be more concerned with debunking the crap we are getting peddled, to get people to think smarter about the rest of it without outright saying it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Toasted Cheese on Dec 18, 2019 10:18:00 GMT
Not a bad interview—is 30 mins—and I don't mind watching Cathy Newman, but she does tend to ask black and white questions when rattled, as though it can then be answered as an absolute when there are other factors at play that make up the entire equation. That is her way of trying to get one-upmanship on someone who is smarter than her. She also got rattled and lost for words when she was processing something Jordan said about causing offense when they were discussing transgender issues. The truth in this instance is what he said, the truth. You can't argue with an absolute and she was literally choking to respond.
Peterson knows his stuff and for the most part remains very conducted and calm. He speaks things for what they are, not for what they get painted out to be and are supposed to represent. The gender pay gap has always been a contentious issue, but is always easy to debunk, but some people, feminists mostly, just cling to it as though it is what they hang their entire movement onto to make their phony claims look credible.
Equality of opportunity, nice for those that wish to pursue certain careers that are highly driven, but equality of outcome is a fallacy. The opportunity is never going to determine the consequence of outcome which is and always has a capricious and unpredictable nature. It is about wanting to control the outcome, when it will become what it is. This is really about some feminists saying we want this as a given because of our gender, not because of cutting the mustard and willingness to play the game.
Expecting men to be more like women to even the playing field, is because they aren't prepared to be more like men, because of the differences in gender dynamic. It is absurd to think that men are going to change to become something women think they should be due to some sort of arrogant entitlement.
to me it seemed like she went in there with a plan to expose him as some kind of misogynist and when that fell apart it seemed like she was purposely misinterpreting everything he said and in some cases appeared to not even have listened to what he said. She caught so much flack for that interview and rightfully so I am not sure if you read the comments on you tube to the video, but many are hilariously on point about her approach to his facts and perceptions by her dismissive and non sequitur responses:
Peterson: Farts Newman: So you are saying women aren't worthy of breathing fresh air.... 
|
|
|
|
Post by Toasted Cheese on Dec 18, 2019 10:25:40 GMT
the most telling part of the interview is when she asked why should his right to free speech trump a trans person's right to not be offended. That is the whole problem with what is happening on campuses and within our society. People really believe they have a right to never hear any point of view that they don't agree with. When you have a group of people that are looking for things to be offended by, that shuts down any conversation between two people that disagree. That was the crux of her whole approach that came crumbling down around her and she was constantly misquoting and\or misrepresenting him, because I lost count of how many times he said that is not what I said and then he had to to put it into the correct context for her. She wasn't interested in what he was saying, just wanting to catch him out with what he was saying, so she could be credible painting him with what feminists say he is. Thing is, he wasn't playing devil's advocate, she was and wasn't doing a very good job at it either.
|
|
|
|
Post by Toasted Cheese on Dec 18, 2019 10:31:53 GMT
That is where they want us. It is about top end white collar vocations that feminists focus on. They are not interested in equality within the trades and construction and heavy duty labour roles. This is the domain where women are not largely interested. Even many males do not want to do these jobs. It is about having men serve the system and being dominated over. Feminists want equality of outcome manipulated on their own selective terms. Equality is just a ruse. It can’t and won’t ever exist in this world. Too many differences dictate. Actually I don't want to sound like the proverbial "angry white male" because I'm not. White males are the most privileged human beings on earth. But what annoys me is that white females from privileged middle class backgrounds have manipulated affirmative action. No one helps the working class white male. Women are now almost 60% of college graduates and are dominating new management positions. Working class males are digging ditches and working construction. How many women do you see doing construction or highway maintenance? Zero. That is my whole point about this equality thing, it is only sought after in a minority sector and those you are calling the shots are then manipulating the rest under them and it doesn't matter what gender is doing it, they play the same game. It is not really about if women ruled the empire, it would make things better and more just for all. The wicked queen in Snow White only wanted to be fairer than the rest, while ruling with a black heart. It gets distorted and corrupted in the corridors of power, that is the dynamic behind it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Dec 18, 2019 10:38:47 GMT
the most telling part of the interview is when she asked why should his right to free speech trump a trans person's right to not be offended. That is the whole problem with what is happening on campuses and within our society. People really believe they have a right to never hear any point of view that they don't agree with. When you have a group of people that are looking for things to be offended by, that shuts down any conversation between two people that disagree. The Bill of No Rights: www.friesian.com/ross/ca40/noright.htmSee Article II. 
|
|
|
|
Post by Prime etc. on Dec 18, 2019 10:45:51 GMT
Mass immigration has always been a contentious issue and that is one of the main reasons why the Brits voted for Brexit. Yes, fearful of losing jobs to migrants. The elephant in the room is getting pushed aside by those that have their own self-serving agendas and then we are promoted with all this distracting gender inequality conundrum s<>t. Peterson knows what he is talking about, but perhaps is playing it safe to be more concerned with debunking the crap we are getting peddled, to get people to think smarter about the rest of it without outright saying it.
I find it difficult to trust anyone who has a mainstream podium because it seems to me it is incredibly tightly controlled and no one who isn't in the club or obedient to it is going to be getting any mainstream attention. I think there have been a few (alt-right whatever) who built up a flock with some specific carefully outlined truths and then after a while went mental as if on cue (that Milo for example). Steve Bannon is a paid clown--he appears on 60 Minutes looking like a drunk--accident? He was also touring Europe with three Pakistani conservatives telling Europe about civic nationalism.
I'd watch to see if Peterson does an about face or has some convenient scandal or mental health crisis to de-legitimatize him or his views.
In general, I think Feminism was, as Yuri Bezmenov outlines here--a tool for weakening societies. I hear that in former Soviet bloc countries they rejected feminism because they could see it was being utilized for less than noble social ends. Western countries are slower to realize the deception.
|
|
