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Post by shannondegroot on Dec 24, 2019 1:24:50 GMT
story ? Instead of Palpatine coming back ?
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Post by _ on Dec 24, 2019 1:26:23 GMT
story ? Instead of Palpatine coming back ? Darth Ackbar!
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Post by dazz on Dec 24, 2019 3:13:30 GMT
story ? Instead of Palpatine coming back ? Darth Ackbar! Dude they need a threat they can beat, you know it I know I the American people know it that if an Ackbar went darkside then well I think we all know what that means... 
Darth Sideous is nothing but a camp little bitch compared to might that is Darth Squideous.
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Post by _ on Dec 24, 2019 3:16:18 GMT
Dude they need a threat they can beat, you know it I know I the American people know it that if an Ackbar went darkside then well I think we all know what that means...
Darth Sideous is nothing but a camp little bitch compared to might that is Darth Squideous.
*mic drop*
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Dec 24, 2019 5:41:08 GMT
story ? Instead of Palpatine coming back ? I would’ve been fine with Snoke continuing until 9, Plageus, or even the rumored Son of Mortis. Any of those could’ve easily been crafted into a new, competent big-bad. Fans were split on Snoke. Some were indifferent to him, some were disappointed when he got killed off. Rian Johnson killed him off and set up Kylo to be the big-bad in TROS. (Something that most TLJ fans seemed to like). But Kylo was never a threat to Rey as an antagonist. That was pretty much solidified by the end of TLJ. He plays Wile E. Coyote to Rey’s Roadrunner. There is no way he was going to defeat Rey in the third act of the trilogy. That would’ve caused an epic meltdown from Rey fans that would’ve flooded social media and hit them at the box office. And Kylo is too entrenched as a pushover. As a big-bad he’s a joke. Even Abrams was smart enough to know that. That’s why he brought back Palpatine.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2019 9:45:06 GMT
Yup Snoke shouldve been him and that way it wouldntve undermined Anakin's balance of the force arc
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Post by The Lost One on Dec 24, 2019 10:22:53 GMT
Pretty much anything would be better than Palpatine coming back with no explanation or foreshadowing. Even Darth JarJar!
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Dec 24, 2019 11:21:29 GMT
story ? Instead of Palpatine coming back ? I would’ve been fine with Snoke continuing until 9, Plageus, or even the rumored Son of Mortis. Any of those could’ve easily been crafted into a new, competent big-bad. Fans were split on Snoke. Some were indifferent to him, some were disappointed when he got killed off. Rian Johnson killed him off and set up Kylo to be the big-bad in TROS. (Something that most TLJ fans seemed to like). But Kylo was never a threat to Rey as an antagonist. That was pretty much solidified by the end of TLJ. He plays Wile E. Coyote to Rey’s Roadrunner. There is no way he was going to defeat Rey in the third act of the trilogy. That would’ve caused an epic meltdown from Rey fans that would’ve flooded social media and hit them at the box office. And Kylo is too entrenched as a pushover. As a big-bad he’s a joke. Even Abrams was smart enough to know that. That’s why he brought back Palpatine. I mean, in the first episode of Breaking Bad, Walter White was a dorky science teacher getting bullied at car washes and running around in his whitey tighties. By S5, he's Lex Luther. It's an arc. Or you could compare Kylo to his family members. By the end of Empire, Luke is still a whiny bitch, only minus a hand. Then he walks into RotJ force choking and hacking his way through crime syndicates and going easy on Vader when previously Vader had been going easy on him. Then there's Anakin and Dooku from AotC to RotS. So I would have accepted Kylo getting his shit together and becoming big bad. His mom was the only real source of conflict he had left, and once she bit it, he could have really gone evil. Whether it would have totally worked or not, it'd at least have been different. And suspense over whether or not he can defeat Rey seems like a nonstarter. There was no way Kylo was going to defeat Rey in episode 9, and there was also no way Palpatine or anyone else was gonna do it. |
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Dec 24, 2019 13:17:09 GMT
I would’ve been fine with Snoke continuing until 9, Plageus, or even the rumored Son of Mortis. Any of those could’ve easily been crafted into a new, competent big-bad. Fans were split on Snoke. Some were indifferent to him, some were disappointed when he got killed off. Rian Johnson killed him off and set up Kylo to be the big-bad in TROS. (Something that most TLJ fans seemed to like). But Kylo was never a threat to Rey as an antagonist. That was pretty much solidified by the end of TLJ. He plays Wile E. Coyote to Rey’s Roadrunner. There is no way he was going to defeat Rey in the third act of the trilogy. That would’ve caused an epic meltdown from Rey fans that would’ve flooded social media and hit them at the box office. And Kylo is too entrenched as a pushover. As a big-bad he’s a joke. Even Abrams was smart enough to know that. That’s why he brought back Palpatine. I mean, in the first episode of Breaking Bad, Walter White was a dorky science teacher getting bullied at car washes and running around in his whitey tighties. By S5, he's Lex Luther. It's an arc. Or you could compare Kylo to his family members. By the end of Empire, Luke is still a whiny bitch, only minus a hand. Then he walks into RotJ force choking and hacking his way through crime syndicates and going easy on Vader when previously Vader had been going easy on him. Then there's Anakin and Dooku from AotC to RotS. So I would have accepted Kylo getting his shit together and becoming big bad. His mom was the only real source of conflict he had left, and once she bit it, he could have really gone evil. Whether it would have totally worked or not, it'd at least have been different. And suspense over whether or not he can defeat Rey seems like a nonstarter. There was no way Kylo was going to defeat Rey in episode 9, and there was also no way Palpatine or anyone else was gonna do it. The problem with your premise with Kylo is the same problem Abrams had trying to undo elements of TLJ and then tell a complete story in TROS. How are you going to cram a story arc of Kylo becoming a credible threat to Rey into one movie? Something that took 3 movies in the other examples you gave. Everyone knows that the good guys are going to win the third act of a trilogy. But seeing the same arch rival get thumped over and over and over again makes something that has built in anticlimactic, so much more anticlimactic. Some fans were already stirring this on forums. “Great! We get to see Kylo get his @$$ kicked again by Rey?!? Yawn.” A significant number of fans were already resigned to seeing Kylo this way. So to try to completely convince them that Kylo is finally a real threat but is going to lose in the end anyway, is a near impossible task to pull off in one movie. EDIT: In defense of your idea of Kylo still being the big-bad in TROS; I’m sure the more passionate Kylo fans would’ve want to see this attempted. And I’m sure a lot of Rey fans would’ve liked it. But that kind of thing (obliterating your nemesis over and over again) only works if the audience is so in love with the protagonist that they are entertained by ANY situation you put them in in a story. Say what you will about Lucas and his writing, but he didn’t rely on the risk of that when he wrote his protagonists. That’s why he always gave them flaws. And he always pitted them against threats they could and did lose to. |
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Dec 24, 2019 21:31:33 GMT
Yes, probably. Then again I am profoundly relieved that they did not touch the iconic Darth Plagueis lore.
The opera scene is arguably the best acted and written scene in the entire franchise, on par with Order 66 or the I'm your father reveal.
The lazy misappropriation of Palpatine's "the dark side of the force is a pathway to may abilities some consider to be unnatural" mantra should be sacrilege enough. Until here, no farther, Disney!
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Dec 24, 2019 23:00:17 GMT
Yup Snoke shouldve been him and that way it wouldntve undermined Anakin's balance of the force arc It doesn’t undermine Anakin’s arc. Palpatine says he’s “died before,” and Anakin clearly and explicitly (at the end, with the chorus of past Jedi voices) says, “Bring balance to the Force, Rey, as I did” (emphasis mine). So they go out of their way to maintain Anakin’s sacrifice in VI. I’m happy with that. Did you not catch either or both of those lines — they’re quick — or you did but just wanted more exposition or something different altogether? |
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Post by 🎄Jan El Señor🎄 on Dec 24, 2019 23:01:22 GMT
No. It would have been equally as bad. Resurrecting dead characters is stupid.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2019 2:53:52 GMT
Yup Snoke shouldve been him and that way it wouldntve undermined Anakin's balance of the force arc It doesn’t undermine Anakin’s arc. Palpatine says he’s “died before,” and Anakin clearly and explicitly (at the end, with the chorus of past Jedi voices) says, “Bring balance to the Force, Rey, as I did” (emphasis mine). So they go out of their way to maintain Anakin’s sacrifice in VI. I’m happy with that. Did you not catch either or both of those lines — they’re quick — or you did but just wanted more exposition or something different altogether? There could have been other finishes that didn't include bringing back Palpatine, but I agree, this didn't undo the OT. And I don't remember any uproar when he was brought back for Dark Empire. Lol, but I guess we didn't have the internet to express it then either!
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Dec 25, 2019 10:35:00 GMT
I mean, in the first episode of Breaking Bad, Walter White was a dorky science teacher getting bullied at car washes and running around in his whitey tighties. By S5, he's Lex Luther. It's an arc. Or you could compare Kylo to his family members. By the end of Empire, Luke is still a whiny bitch, only minus a hand. Then he walks into RotJ force choking and hacking his way through crime syndicates and going easy on Vader when previously Vader had been going easy on him. Then there's Anakin and Dooku from AotC to RotS. So I would have accepted Kylo getting his shit together and becoming big bad. His mom was the only real source of conflict he had left, and once she bit it, he could have really gone evil. Whether it would have totally worked or not, it'd at least have been different. And suspense over whether or not he can defeat Rey seems like a nonstarter. There was no way Kylo was going to defeat Rey in episode 9, and there was also no way Palpatine or anyone else was gonna do it. The problem with your premise with Kylo is the same problem Abrams had trying to undo elements of TLJ and then tell a complete story in TROS. How are you going to cram a story arc of Kylo becoming a credible threat to Rey into one movie? Something that took 3 movies in the other examples you gave. Everyone knows that the good guys are going to win the third act of a trilogy. But seeing the same arch rival get thumped over and over and over again makes something that has built in anticlimactic, so much more anticlimactic. Some fans were already stirring this on forums. “Great! We get to see Kylo get his @$$ kicked again by Rey?!? Yawn.” A significant number of fans were already resigned to seeing Kylo this way. So to try to completely convince them that Kylo is finally a real threat but is going to lose in the end anyway, is a near impossible task to pull off in one movie. EDIT: In defense of your idea of Kylo still being the big-bad in TROS; I’m sure the more passionate Kylo fans would’ve want to see this attempted. And I’m sure a lot of Rey fans would’ve liked it. But that kind of thing (obliterating your nemesis over and over again) only works if the audience is so in love with the protagonist that they are entertained by ANY situation you put them in in a story. Say what you will about Lucas and his writing, but he didn’t rely on the risk of that when he wrote his protagonists. That’s why he always gave them flaws. And he always pitted them against threats they could and did lose to. Well, speaking of Abrams and his decisions in TRoS, isn't there some plot with Palpatine channeling all the Sith? Couldn't they just do that with Kylo? And instead of Sith GPS satellites, maybe he gets ahold of one of those Sith amulets from the EU or something. Get those Knights of Ren by his side and set it some time after TLJ. Make it like a Rocky movie where Kylo kicks her ass in the first act, and the rest of the movie is her trying to get her groove back and learning to channel all the Jedi. Alternatively, hire a better writer than me and the BvS guy. What I would have liked, given the yin/yang themes of TLJ, is that they cancel each other out and both die. Rey still wins again as expected, but sacrifices herself in the process so it's not a clean victory. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2019 16:08:52 GMT
How about sticking with Kylo Ren as the main villain or introducing a new villain?
But that would require actually thinking and being creative.
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Post by anthonyrocks on Dec 25, 2019 18:03:46 GMT
I myself actually have an Excellent Idea (to me at least) for a New Sequel Trilogy to the Sequel Trilogy (but for it to be done in "STAR WARS" Novels, Not Movies) involving Darth Plageius (sort of in a way).
Would you or anybody else here be interested in reading my idea here ?
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Post by Winter_King on Dec 26, 2019 10:05:47 GMT
I don't know what were the plans with Snoke but I would've been fine with him. Palpatine could've been a good choice if he was introduced earlier in the trilogy.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2019 11:41:39 GMT
Yup Snoke shouldve been him and that way it wouldntve undermined Anakin's balance of the force arc It doesn’t undermine Anakin’s arc. Palpatine says he’s “died before,” and Anakin clearly and explicitly (at the end, with the chorus of past Jedi voices) says, “Bring balance to the Force, Rey, as I did” (emphasis mine). So they go out of their way to maintain Anakin’s sacrifice in VI. I’m happy with that. Did you not catch either or both of those lines — they’re quick — or you did but just wanted more exposition or something different altogether? Just because you use those lines doesnt fix the problem. Palps was a hail mary and it failed imo. Abrams is a hack and thats what hacks do, who cares about anything original..
It does undermine it as Palpatine was the big threat and his end was bringing balance back to the force. His return is like the prophecy saying just kidding.
Snoke being Plagueis is one option or something entirely different. Theres so much star wars material you could pull from and thats the best he could come up with c'mon. He wouldnt even have to know or read all that material, just ask one of your staffers...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2019 12:39:17 GMT
It doesn’t undermine Anakin’s arc. Palpatine says he’s “died before,” and Anakin clearly and explicitly (at the end, with the chorus of past Jedi voices) says, “Bring balance to the Force, Rey, as I did” (emphasis mine). So they go out of their way to maintain Anakin’s sacrifice in VI. I’m happy with that. Did you not catch either or both of those lines — they’re quick — or you did but just wanted more exposition or something different altogether? Just because you use those lines doesnt fix the problem. Palps was a hail mary and it failed imo. Abrams is a hack and thats what hacks do, who cares about anything original..
It does undermine it as Palpatine was the big threat and his end was bringing balance back to the force. His return is like the prophecy saying just kidding.
Snoke being Plagueis is one option or something entirely different. Theres so much star wars material you could pull from and thats the best he could come up with c'mon. He wouldnt even have to know or read all that material, just ask one of your staffers...
Maybe they just read this series instead: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Empire
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Post by 🎄Jan El Señor🎄 on Dec 26, 2019 15:29:55 GMT
There could have been other finishes that didn't include bringing back Palpatine, but I agree, this didn't undo the OT. And I don't remember any uproar when he was brought back for Dark Empire. Lol, but I guess we didn't have the internet to express it then either! I hated Dark Empire pretty much solely because I thought bringing back Palps was stupid.
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