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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2019 15:39:57 GMT
There could have been other finishes that didn't include bringing back Palpatine, but I agree, this didn't undo the OT. And I don't remember any uproar when he was brought back for Dark Empire. Lol, but I guess we didn't have the internet to express it then either! I hated Dark Empire pretty much solely because I thought bringing back Palps was stupid. I agree it's stupid, but do you feel it "ruined the arc of Anakin Skywalker". Or was it just a dumb storyline? |
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Post by 🎄Jan El Señor🎄 on Dec 26, 2019 15:49:15 GMT
I hated Dark Empire pretty much solely because I thought bringing back Palps was stupid. I agree it's stupid, but do you feel it "ruined the arc of Anakin Skywalker". Or was it just a dumb storyline? It was just a dumb storyline.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Dec 26, 2019 15:50:06 GMT
There could have been other finishes that didn't include bringing back Palpatine, but I agree, this didn't undo the OT. And I don't remember any uproar when he was brought back for Dark Empire. Lol, but I guess we didn't have the internet to express it then either! I hated Dark Empire pretty much solely because I thought bringing back Palps was stupid. it was stupid then, but to a lesser degree than now. Because now there is also the Bringing Balance to the Force thing, ie that Anakin was destined (after bringing darkness) to destroy the Sith. Which he finally did in Jedi (Palpatine and himself). With the new film this is greatly diminished: was Palps ever destroyed? For how long, 5 minutes? Anakin now is a s best a proto-stepping stone for Rey Palpatine-Skywalker who brings real and ever-lasting balance. This is how storytelling dies with thunderous applause. (ok not that thunderous) Rise of Corporate fanfiction.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Dec 26, 2019 16:59:23 GMT
story ? Instead of Palpatine coming back ? Well, I don't know if it would have been "better" per say, but lets just say it's what I would have done.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Dec 27, 2019 4:15:51 GMT
The problem with your premise with Kylo is the same problem Abrams had trying to undo elements of TLJ and then tell a complete story in TROS. How are you going to cram a story arc of Kylo becoming a credible threat to Rey into one movie? Something that took 3 movies in the other examples you gave. Everyone knows that the good guys are going to win the third act of a trilogy. But seeing the same arch rival get thumped over and over and over again makes something that has built in anticlimactic, so much more anticlimactic. Some fans were already stirring this on forums. “Great! We get to see Kylo get his @$$ kicked again by Rey?!? Yawn.” A significant number of fans were already resigned to seeing Kylo this way. So to try to completely convince them that Kylo is finally a real threat but is going to lose in the end anyway, is a near impossible task to pull off in one movie. EDIT: In defense of your idea of Kylo still being the big-bad in TROS; I’m sure the more passionate Kylo fans would’ve want to see this attempted. And I’m sure a lot of Rey fans would’ve liked it. But that kind of thing (obliterating your nemesis over and over again) only works if the audience is so in love with the protagonist that they are entertained by ANY situation you put them in in a story. Say what you will about Lucas and his writing, but he didn’t rely on the risk of that when he wrote his protagonists. That’s why he always gave them flaws. And he always pitted them against threats they could and did lose to. Well, speaking of Abrams and his decisions in TRoS, isn't there some plot with Palpatine channeling all the Sith? Couldn't they just do that with Kylo? And instead of Sith GPS satellites, maybe he gets ahold of one of those Sith amulets from the EU or something. Get those Knights of Ren by his side and set it some time after TLJ. YES! Something like that actually could work! It condenses the time needed to develop Kylo into a threat. It could fit the mythos. And now you just touched on the one possible drawback. Having Rey lose her mojo for most of the movie. Some Rey fans would grab ahold of the same complaints that Luke fans did in TLJ. “They really diminished her character! That’s not the Rey I fell in love with!” Etc. Additionally, Abrams would be challenged to get a script like that approved. I can already see Iger and Kay Kay’s faces puckering at the thought of Rey not apexing through the movie until “the third act”. If only. The writing, writing, ITS ALWAYS BEEN THE WRITING that’s been the biggest problem and weakness of this trilogy. An ending like that would be something to geek out on for mythos buffs. But they were focused on having Rey “ride off into the sunset, victorious”. |
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Post by merh on Dec 27, 2019 13:32:15 GMT
Thing is, Palpatine was always a manipulator.
I never bothered reading any of the novels or getting into anything outside the movies so my take when Palpatine spoke of Plageius was he was Plageius himself. He was manipulating Anakin to turn him to the dark side.
Snoke was nothing. I never got any dread off his character. He felt like a construct, a lie. I was waiting for him to be revealed as such.
But this is where we end up because of Lucas.
He talled big, promised us the moon. 9 movies one could spend a day in the theater watching, but then he petered out. He ran away after the easy part-the first trilogy. Then he re-made the same trilogy. I could forgive just upping the effects, but he changed the story. That mcclunky thing is apparently him.
He's like a cook who's never satisfied, tweeking the pot until its ruined.
At some point one needs to just walk away.
We loved the original for what it was.
Then 20 yrs later he finally gave us a new novie.
2 damn decades.
He abandoned his own baby.
People were writing their own stories about his universe. Others liked those stories, even though it changed things in the universe.
This is George Lucas's fault.
He even said after he finished the prequels that was all there would be. No more films. He wasn't making the last trilogy he promised us back in the 70s.
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Post by Spooky Ghost Ackbar on Dec 27, 2019 19:32:10 GMT
They were clearly determined to make this a remake of RotJ. JJ would've had Snoke in the Emperor's role but what difference would that really have made? It still would've just recycled all of the same plot beats. Would've been the same with Darth Plaguiesusus too. The fact that it's Palpatine just makes it hilariously obvious that JJ didn't know what else to do.
"Well, JJ, your paper thin Palpatine rip off character was killed by Rian Johnson! What are you gonna do?"
"Uh... I guess I'll just bring back the actual Emperor."
"Or you could keep your stupid hacky face away from the script and just let your screenwriter come up with something less dirivitve."
"NOPE! BRING BACK PALPY, BITCH!"
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Dec 28, 2019 21:21:05 GMT
Well, speaking of Abrams and his decisions in TRoS, isn't there some plot with Palpatine channeling all the Sith? Couldn't they just do that with Kylo? And instead of Sith GPS satellites, maybe he gets ahold of one of those Sith amulets from the EU or something. Get those Knights of Ren by his side and set it some time after TLJ. YES! Something like that actually could work! It condenses the time needed to develop Kylo into a threat. It could fit the mythos. And now you just touched on the one possible drawback. Having Rey lose her mojo for most of the movie. Some Rey fans would grab ahold of the same complaints that Luke fans did in TLJ. “They really diminished her character! That’s not the Rey I fell in love with!” Etc. Additionally, Abrams would be challenged to get a script like that approved. I can already see Iger and Kay Kay’s faces puckering at the thought of Rey not apexing through the movie until “the third act”. If only. The writing, writing, ITS ALWAYS BEEN THE WRITING that’s been the biggest problem and weakness of this trilogy. An ending like that would be something to geek out on for mythos buffs. But they were focused on having Rey “ride off into the sunset, victorious”. Well, they did okay a morally ambivalent and eventually dead Jyn Erso, so maybe they could be swayed. But hey, who needs their hypothetical support, I'm just happy I got you semi-onboard. |
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Post by darkpast on Dec 31, 2019 3:03:50 GMT
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Post by 🎄Jan El Señor🎄 on Jan 2, 2020 14:14:53 GMT
I hated Dark Empire pretty much solely because I thought bringing back Palps was stupid. it was stupid then, but to a lesser degree than now. Because now there is also the Bringing Balance to the Force thing, ie that Anakin was destined (after bringing darkness) to destroy the Sith. Which he finally did in Jedi (Palpatine and himself). With the new film this is greatly diminished: was Palps ever destroyed? For how long, 5 minutes? Anakin now is a s best a proto-stepping stone for Rey Palpatine-Skywalker who brings real and ever-lasting balance. This is how storytelling dies with thunderous applause. (ok not that thunderous) Rise of Corporate fanfiction. had the added stupidity of having Luke go Dark Side. That appeals to some dorks who might think that's deep and philosophical. But it was really just stupid.
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