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Post by OldSamVimes on Dec 27, 2019 14:11:32 GMT
I find the question 'Why would God let us suffer' to be a strange one.
First, when we ask that question we're assuming for the sake of argument that 'God' exists.
However, if 'God' exists then any suffering in this world gains a different perspective. There is no religious scenario where God exists but when you die 'that's it'.
So if we're presuming that 'God' exists to ask 'Why does He allow suffering', any amount of suffering we have here is nothing when measured against an eternal afterlife.
You might as well ask 'Why do we allow people to get scared on roller-coasters'?
Because if 'God' exists then any suffering here is as transient and temporary as a feeling of fear on an amusement park ride.
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Post by Dirty Santa PaulsLaugh on Dec 27, 2019 14:29:36 GMT
That's a interesting point. Why should human being and other creatures capable of suffering be destined to suffer? However, we never question why even mountains are destined to erode away.
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Post by Winter_King on Dec 27, 2019 14:34:54 GMT
What happens if your eternal afterlife is also eternal suffering as some religions believe it will happen?
That's a poor analogy. People choose to go on roller coasters. And some don't even get scared. They get their adrenaline rush and that feels quite good.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2019 18:54:41 GMT
I find the question 'Why would God let us suffer' to be a strange one. First, when we ask that question we're assuming for the sake of argument that 'God' exists. However, if 'God' exists then any suffering in this world gains a different perspective. There is no religious scenario where God exists but when you die 'that's it'. So if we're presuming that 'God' exists to ask 'Why does He allow suffering', any amount of suffering we have here is nothing when measured against an eternal afterlife. If you ever come across a traumatised survivor of some horrific crime, you should say that to them. As you stand over the broken and bleeding body of someone who is weeping in terror, you should say "You know what? This suffering of yours doesn't matter at all. It's nothing. It's not even the slightest bit of a problem." You should definitely do that. I wouldn't ever do that, because I'm not a colossal dick. But you? Absolutely.
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Post by OldSamVimes on Dec 27, 2019 22:07:48 GMT
I find the question 'Why would God let us suffer' to be a strange one. First, when we ask that question we're assuming for the sake of argument that 'God' exists. However, if 'God' exists then any suffering in this world gains a different perspective. There is no religious scenario where God exists but when you die 'that's it'. So if we're presuming that 'God' exists to ask 'Why does He allow suffering', any amount of suffering we have here is nothing when measured against an eternal afterlife. If you ever come across a traumatised survivor of some horrific crime, you should say that to them. As you stand over the broken and bleeding body of someone who is weeping in terror, you should say "You know what? This suffering of yours doesn't matter at all. It's nothing. It's not even the slightest bit of a problem." You should definitely do that. I wouldn't ever do that, because I'm not a colossal dick. But you? Absolutely. Actually, it seems like you are.
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Post by OldSamVimes on Dec 27, 2019 22:11:19 GMT
What happens if your eternal afterlife is also eternal suffering as some religions believe it will happen? That's a poor analogy. People choose to go on roller coasters. And some don't even get scared. They get their adrenaline rush and that feels quite good. If we did choose to be here it would make sense for us to not be able to remember that while we're here, otherwise what would be the point of the illusion?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2019 22:13:13 GMT
If you ever come across a traumatised survivor of some horrific crime, you should say that to them. As you stand over the broken and bleeding body of someone who is weeping in terror, you should say "You know what? This suffering of yours doesn't matter at all. It's nothing. It's not even the slightest bit of a problem." You should definitely do that. I wouldn't ever do that, because I'm not a colossal dick. But you? Absolutely. Actually, it seems like you are. For repeating what you said you believe? Nah.
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Post by OldSamVimes on Dec 27, 2019 22:15:37 GMT
Actually, it seems like you are. For repeating what you said you believe? Nah. For assuming that I'd say something like that to someone who is suffering, no matter what I believe. Do you feel compelled to blurt out everything you're thinking all the time? ..because I don't. Assuming someone would do that makes you either stupid or a giant dick.
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Post by northern on Dec 27, 2019 22:23:41 GMT
I find the question 'Why would God let us suffer' to be a strange one. First, when we ask that question we're assuming for the sake of argument that 'God' exists. However, if 'God' exists then any suffering in this world gains a different perspective. There is no religious scenario where God exists but when you die 'that's it'. So if we're presuming that 'God' exists to ask 'Why does He allow suffering', any amount of suffering we have here is nothing when measured against an eternal afterlife. You might as well ask 'Why do we allow people to get scared on roller-coasters'? Because if 'God' exists then any suffering here is as transient and temporary as a feeling of fear on an amusement park ride. Better question: who are you to question God? |
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Post by RiP, IMDb on Dec 27, 2019 22:36:45 GMT
Original SIN and FREE choice.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2019 22:38:03 GMT
For repeating what you said you believe? Nah. For assuming that I'd say something like that to someone who is suffering, no matter what I believe. Do you feel compelled to blurt out everything you're thinking all the time? ..because I don't. Assuming someone would do that makes you either stupid or a giant dick. But why wouldn’t you? I consider it a dick thing to do because it would cause a vulnerable person suffering, and I think it’s important not to do that. But your whole premise here is that people’s suffering doesn’t actually matter. It isn’t something I just blindly assumed of you, it’s literally a direct result of what you said. If you have a problem with it, maybe reconsider your premise.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2019 22:41:59 GMT
Better question: who are you to question God? Why not question god? Can’t anybody question anything?
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Post by Isapop on Dec 28, 2019 1:17:55 GMT
So if we're presuming that 'God' exists to ask 'Why does He allow suffering', any amount of suffering we have here is nothing when measured against an eternal afterlife. You might as well ask 'Why do we allow people to get scared on roller-coasters'? Because if 'God' exists then any suffering here is as transient and temporary as a feeling of fear on an amusement park ride. Patient to dentist: Why did you drill my teeth without giving me novocaine first? I was suffering when you could have easily prevented it! Dentist: Think of it this way. You were in agony for only a couple of minutes. What's that compared to the eighty or ninety years of your lifespan? Patient: Oh, well of course you're right. Silly question, wasn't it?
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Dec 28, 2019 1:22:02 GMT
For repeating what you said you believe? Nah. For assuming that I'd say something like that to someone who is suffering, no matter what I believe. If you believe something you wouldn't say to the people that belief is regarding, then maybe you should reconsider that belief (assuming hypothetical people are no danger to you, that is).
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Dec 28, 2019 4:15:55 GMT
So if we're presuming that 'God' exists to ask 'Why does He allow suffering', any amount of suffering we have here is nothing when measured against an eternal afterlife. You might as well ask 'Why do we allow people to get scared on roller-coasters'? Because if 'God' exists then any suffering here is as transient and temporary as a feeling of fear on an amusement park ride. Patient to dentist: Why did you drill my teeth without giving me novocaine first? I was suffering when you could have easily prevented it! Dentist: Think of it this way. You were in agony for only a couple of minutes. What's that compared to the eighty or ninety years of your lifespan? Patient: Oh, well of course you're right. Silly question, wasn't it?
^^^^^^^Perfect^^^^^^^ Beyond that, what irks me is that many Christians see suffering as a religious rite, helping them to understand the suffering of Christ on the cross. This thinking leads to inactivity to alleviate suffering in the real world of the here-and-now. If memory serves, Jesus healed the sick and fed the hungry. Hmmm, maybe he just should have pointed out that suffering gets you into Heaven, actually, sometimes faster. People remember Mother Theresa as a near-saint, but at her facility, people suffered until they died. The actual medical clinic down the street saved lives and alleviated suffering. So, what does that say?
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Post by maya55555 on Dec 28, 2019 4:45:45 GMT
You are only parroting the statements of Christopher Hitchens.
Early in her career, Mother Theresa tried to get the sick poor into THAT MEDICAL CLINIC DOWN THE STREET, but that clinic would NOT accept them. Blame it on their inability to pay, they belonged to the wrong caste, etc..
People used to simply die in the streets.
She felt it was her mission to collect the very poor and give them a clean bed, with food and protection. She begged for the food etc.. Doctors were hired to minister to these patients but they later wanted payment, which violated their agreement with the Missionaries of Charity.
Look into your subject a bit deeper, instead of simply spewing out pre-fab hatred.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Dec 28, 2019 4:52:00 GMT
You are only parroting the statements of Christopher Hitchens. Early in her career, Mother Theresa tried to get the sick poor into THAT MEDICAL CLINIC DOWN THE STREET, but that clinic would NOT accept them. Blame it on their inability to pay, they belonged to the wrong caste, etc.. People used to simply die in the streets. She felt it was her mission to collect the very poor and give them a clean bed, with food and protection. She begged for the food etc.. Doctors were hired to minister to these patients but they later wanted payment, which violated their agreement with the Missionaries of Charity. Look into your subject a bit deeper, instead of simply spewing out pre-fab hatred. I don't hate any one or any thing, other than ignorance.
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Post by OldSamVimes on Dec 28, 2019 11:11:26 GMT
For assuming that I'd say something like that to someone who is suffering, no matter what I believe. If you believe something you wouldn't say to the people that belief is regarding, then maybe you should reconsider that belief (assuming hypothetical people are no danger to you, that is). Are you going to go to the mall and tell all the 5 year old's that Santa Claus is fake because you know in your heart that Santa Claus isn't real? ..that's why you don't tell suffering people that this world is an illusion.
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Post by OldSamVimes on Dec 28, 2019 11:15:11 GMT
For assuming that I'd say something like that to someone who is suffering, no matter what I believe. Do you feel compelled to blurt out everything you're thinking all the time? ..because I don't. Assuming someone would do that makes you either stupid or a giant dick. But why wouldn’t you? I consider it a dick thing to do because it would cause a vulnerable person suffering, and I think it’s important not to do that. But your whole premise here is that people’s suffering doesn’t actually matter. It isn’t something I just blindly assumed of you, it’s literally a direct result of what you said. If you have a problem with it, maybe reconsider your premise. You can see my post above. I don't need to feed my ego by attempting to shatter the illusion for others. You're not going to tell children that Santa Claus isn't real.
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Post by OldSamVimes on Dec 28, 2019 11:20:38 GMT
I find the question 'Why would God let us suffer' to be a strange one. First, when we ask that question we're assuming for the sake of argument that 'God' exists. However, if 'God' exists then any suffering in this world gains a different perspective. There is no religious scenario where God exists but when you die 'that's it'. So if we're presuming that 'God' exists to ask 'Why does He allow suffering', any amount of suffering we have here is nothing when measured against an eternal afterlife. You might as well ask 'Why do we allow people to get scared on roller-coasters'? Because if 'God' exists then any suffering here is as transient and temporary as a feeling of fear on an amusement park ride. Better question: who are you to question God? I'm not questioning 'God'. (however you define it). I'm questioning the logic of those who ask the question 'Why would God allow suffering?' IMO it's an illogical question.
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