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Post by ArArArchStanton on Apr 21, 2017 21:21:18 GMT
Again, I'm saying it's a shitty story regardless of the timing, but particularly lousy because there are potentially more young first time readers than say 20 years ago due to the popularity of the films. You think it's an interesting story and I think it's garbage. I'm not telling Marvel what to do with their story, I'm giving my opinion on it. Get it? Yes, I got it. And I'm giving mine. Get it?
There's no need to get upset about it. I think it's a really interesting new story and I'm actually excited about it.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Apr 21, 2017 21:23:56 GMT
And in those last six years, Marvel has been screwing Cap over repeatedly between taking away being Captain America, making him old, then making him evil, and then making him evil again. No, I don't think things are going to go back to normal, because apparently normal Steve Rogers isn't good enough for Marvel Comics, and somehow CA: Civil War being the highest grossing film of 2016 isn't enough to prove that there is an audience for plain ol' Boyscout Steve Rogers. So tell me what exactly IS a good jumping on for any new young readers, because I'm not seeing one. Ok, well I'm still not seeing a problem with any of that. It all sounds new and interesting if you ask me. I haven't been following it enough to cite a jumping on point. If it were me, I'd do what I did when I starting reading comics and I'd read all the back stories that I found interesting. It's not like those don't exist, and they're easier to access than ever.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2017 21:30:32 GMT
And in those last six years, Marvel has been screwing Cap over repeatedly between taking away being Captain America, making him old, then making him evil, and then making him evil again. No, I don't think things are going to go back to normal, because apparently normal Steve Rogers isn't good enough for Marvel Comics, and somehow CA: Civil War being the highest grossing film of 2016 isn't enough to prove that there is an audience for plain ol' Boyscout Steve Rogers. So tell me what exactly IS a good jumping on for any new young readers, because I'm not seeing one. Ok, well I'm still not seeing a problem with any of that. It all sounds new and interesting if you ask me. I haven't been following it enough to cite a jumping on point. If it were me, I'd do what I did when I starting reading comics and I'd read all the back stories that I found interesting. It's not like those don't exist, and they're easier to access than ever. It is a problem for those of us who want to read new Captain America. I don't want to read about Bucky Barnes as Captain America because Steve's dead. I want to read about Steve Rogers as Captain America. I don't want to read about Falcon as Captain America, because Steve's Nomad. I want to read about Steve Rogers as Captain America. I don't want to read about Falcon being Captain America because Steve started aging rapidly. I want to read about Steve Rogers as Captain America. I don't want to read about a restored Steve Rogers being a Hydra plant who was evil all along. I want to read about Steve Rogers as an old-fashioned Star-Spangled BoyScout Superhero. So it IS a problem to me, because they keep pulling this crap. As long as they insist of doing this to their classic characters, I won't touch a single Marvel comic. got it?
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Apr 22, 2017 6:58:10 GMT
Ok, well I'm still not seeing a problem with any of that. It all sounds new and interesting if you ask me. I haven't been following it enough to cite a jumping on point. If it were me, I'd do what I did when I starting reading comics and I'd read all the back stories that I found interesting. It's not like those don't exist, and they're easier to access than ever. It is a problem for those of us who want to read new Captain America. I don't want to read about Bucky Barnes as Captain America because Steve's dead. I want to read about Steve Rogers as Captain America. I don't want to read about Falcon as Captain America, because Steve's Nomad. I want to read about Steve Rogers as Captain America. I don't want to read about Falcon being Captain America because Steve started aging rapidly. I want to read about Steve Rogers as Captain America. I don't want to read about a restored Steve Rogers being a Hydra plant who was evil all along. I want to read about Steve Rogers as an old-fashioned Star-Spangled BoyScout Superhero. So it IS a problem to me, because they keep pulling this crap. As long as they insist of doing this to their classic characters, I won't touch a single Marvel comic. got it?
You and I are on the same side on a lot of issue on this board, but I really don't see how you expect them the never satisfy the crowd who would like something different. What about those fans who will never pick up a comic because it's always the same star spangled steve and never changes? What would you say to them?
And again, I point out, there are 50 years of back issues for boy scout Steve. Have you read them all? If you want that Steve, those are still available.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2017 3:16:11 GMT
It is a problem for those of us who want to read new Captain America. I don't want to read about Bucky Barnes as Captain America because Steve's dead. I want to read about Steve Rogers as Captain America. I don't want to read about Falcon as Captain America, because Steve's Nomad. I want to read about Steve Rogers as Captain America. I don't want to read about Falcon being Captain America because Steve started aging rapidly. I want to read about Steve Rogers as Captain America. I don't want to read about a restored Steve Rogers being a Hydra plant who was evil all along. I want to read about Steve Rogers as an old-fashioned Star-Spangled BoyScout Superhero. So it IS a problem to me, because they keep pulling this crap. As long as they insist of doing this to their classic characters, I won't touch a single Marvel comic. got it?
You and I are on the same side on a lot of issue on this board, but I really don't see how you expect them the never satisfy the crowd who would like something different. What about those fans who will never pick up a comic because it's always the same star spangled steve and never changes? What would you say to them?
And again, I point out, there are 50 years of back issues for boy scout Steve. Have you read them all? If you want that Steve, those are still available.
Do they not still make "Elseworlds" stories? Could this stupid "Steve Rogers was always secretly a Nazi and the Nazis won World War II" not be an Elseworlds story? Why not let Steve be Steve in the main timeline and just let this be a side Elseworlds story? Also, why does "something different" have to entail making Steve Rogers evil? Why does "something different" have to entail taking being Captain America away from him? People who want something different who been having their itches scratches for ten years straight between Captain America being dead, being made old, having being Captain America taken away from him, being made evil, and then being made evil AGAIN. Ten. Years. Straight. And for people like us who just want to see A new adventure with good ol' Steve Rogers as Captain America, we've gotten NOTHING for a WHOLE DECADE. How is this fair? Because I feel like I should be able to walk into a comic book right now and buy a newly minted Captain America story in which I can see Steve Rogers as both Captain America AND the good guy. I shouldn't HAVE to track down the old to get what I want out of Marvel Comics. And honestly, I'm not convinced anyone is having their itch scratched by this, considering Marvel Comics' abysmal sales numbers compared to DC. Hmm. Let's See. DC is currently making stories about Clark Kent as Superman, Bruce Wayne as Batman, and so on, and they're doing as well as any printed media can be expected to these days, and yet Marvel is tanking. Hard. Golly gee, I wonder if it has something to do with readers not liking having their favorite heroes being screwed over and replaced all the time!
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Apr 23, 2017 3:49:11 GMT
You and I are on the same side on a lot of issue on this board, but I really don't see how you expect them the never satisfy the crowd who would like something different. What about those fans who will never pick up a comic because it's always the same star spangled steve and never changes? What would you say to them?
And again, I point out, there are 50 years of back issues for boy scout Steve. Have you read them all? If you want that Steve, those are still available.
Do they not still make "Elseworlds" stories? Could this stupid "Steve Rogers was always secretly a Nazi and the Nazis won World War II" not be an Elseworlds story? Why not let Steve be Steve in the main timeline and just let this be a side Elseworlds story? Also, why does "something different" have to entail making Steve Rogers evil? Why does "something different" have to entail taking being Captain America away from him? People who want something different who been having their itches scratches for ten years straight between Captain America being dead, being made old, having being Captain America taken away from him, being made evil, and then being made evil AGAIN. Ten. Years. Straight. And for people like us who just want to see A new adventure with good ol' Steve Rogers as Captain America, we've gotten NOTHING for a WHOLE DECADE. How is this fair? Because I feel like I should be able to walk into a comic book right now and buy a newly minted Captain America story in which I can see Steve Rogers as both Captain America AND the good guy. I shouldn't HAVE to track down the old to get what I want out of Marvel Comics. And honestly, I'm not convinced anyone is having their itch scratched by this, considering Marvel Comics' abysmal sales numbers compared to DC. Hmm. Let's See. DC is currently making stories about Clark Kent as Superman, Bruce Wayne as Batman, and so on, and they're doing as well as any printed media can be expected to these days, and yet Marvel is tanking. Hard. Golly gee, I wonder if it has something to do with readers not liking having their favorite heroes being screwed over and replaced all the time! Fine, I get it, you don't like it. Just wait a year and they'll be doing something different. But freak out if you need to. I was just trying to say I find it interesting.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2017 4:00:21 GMT
Do they not still make "Elseworlds" stories? Could this stupid "Steve Rogers was always secretly a Nazi and the Nazis won World War II" not be an Elseworlds story? Why not let Steve be Steve in the main timeline and just let this be a side Elseworlds story? Also, why does "something different" have to entail making Steve Rogers evil? Why does "something different" have to entail taking being Captain America away from him? People who want something different who been having their itches scratches for ten years straight between Captain America being dead, being made old, having being Captain America taken away from him, being made evil, and then being made evil AGAIN. Ten. Years. Straight. And for people like us who just want to see A new adventure with good ol' Steve Rogers as Captain America, we've gotten NOTHING for a WHOLE DECADE. How is this fair? Because I feel like I should be able to walk into a comic book right now and buy a newly minted Captain America story in which I can see Steve Rogers as both Captain America AND the good guy. I shouldn't HAVE to track down the old to get what I want out of Marvel Comics. And honestly, I'm not convinced anyone is having their itch scratched by this, considering Marvel Comics' abysmal sales numbers compared to DC. Hmm. Let's See. DC is currently making stories about Clark Kent as Superman, Bruce Wayne as Batman, and so on, and they're doing as well as any printed media can be expected to these days, and yet Marvel is tanking. Hard. Golly gee, I wonder if it has something to do with readers not liking having their favorite heroes being screwed over and replaced all the time! Fine, I get it, you don't like it. Just wait a year and they'll be doing something different. But freak out if you need to. I was just trying to say I find it interesting. Yes, I am painfully aware of the fact that Steve Rogers will either be dead or altered in some new horrifying way in a year. If Marvel Comics is SO dead set on not letting him be Captain America, I don't know why they just don't put him out of his misery for good. They seem to honestly hate him.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Apr 23, 2017 4:17:00 GMT
Fine, I get it, you don't like it. Just wait a year and they'll be doing something different. But freak out if you need to. I was just trying to say I find it interesting. Yes, I am painfully aware of the fact that Steve Rogers will either be dead or altered in some new horrifying way in a year. If Marvel Comics is SO dead set on not letting him be Captain America, I don't know why they just don't put him out of his misery for good. They seem to honestly hate him. I'll mail you a box of tissues. Send me your address.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2017 4:34:07 GMT
Yes, I am painfully aware of the fact that Steve Rogers will either be dead or altered in some new horrifying way in a year. If Marvel Comics is SO dead set on not letting him be Captain America, I don't know why they just don't put him out of his misery for good. They seem to honestly hate him. I'll mail you a box of tissues. Send me your address. Oh, look, someone on the internet is being a dismissive asshole because I said something they didn't like. How original.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Apr 23, 2017 4:48:03 GMT
I'll mail you a box of tissues. Send me your address. Oh, look, someone on the internet is being a dismissive asshole because I said something they didn't like. How original. It's not because I didn't like it, I was just expressing that I stopped caring.
Like I said, you and I have agreed on most things on here, I'm just not interested your dislike for the CA series as it currently stands. If you don't like it fine. I'm sorry you don't.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2017 4:56:52 GMT
Oh, look, someone on the internet is being a dismissive asshole because I said something they didn't like. How original. It's not because I didn't like it, I was just expressing that I stopped caring.
Like I said, you and I have agreed on most things on here, I'm just not interested your dislike for the CA series as it currently stands. If you don't like it fine. I'm sorry you don't.
I apologize for going Gung Ho and calling you a name. In any case, I hope the Marvel comic book branch doesn't run itself into the ground before it produces another story with its decades-old lineup of characters.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Apr 23, 2017 5:02:18 GMT
I apologize for going Gung Ho and calling you a name. In any case, I hope the Marvel comic book branch doesn't run itself into the ground before it produces another story with its decades-old lineup of characters. I'm pretty sure the comic branch is so small now compared to the film branch that it's just used strategically.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2017 5:19:51 GMT
I apologize for going Gung Ho and calling you a name. In any case, I hope the Marvel comic book branch doesn't run itself into the ground before it produces another story with its decades-old lineup of characters. I'm pretty sure the comic branch is so small now compared to the film branch that it's just used strategically. To test things out?
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Apr 23, 2017 5:34:54 GMT
I'm pretty sure the comic branch is so small now compared to the film branch that it's just used strategically. To test things out? Sure. The film side is their primary business now. What that means is the comic book side can rise and fall all it wants, because it only represents a small percentage of the company. They can use it for whatever they want, perhaps to test new storylines, or just do radical departures that they might now have done in the past, and they aren't terribly worried about the success of the story. They can afford to do whatever they want to with it. The films are where they make the money.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2017 5:41:08 GMT
That would explain most of their bone-headed decisions form the last several years from the comics divisions' side.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Apr 23, 2017 9:54:55 GMT
Ok, well I'm still not seeing a problem with any of that. It all sounds new and interesting if you ask me. I haven't been following it enough to cite a jumping on point. If it were me, I'd do what I did when I starting reading comics and I'd read all the back stories that I found interesting. It's not like those don't exist, and they're easier to access than ever. It is a problem for those of us who want to read new Captain America. I don't want to read about Bucky Barnes as Captain America because Steve's dead. I want to read about Steve Rogers as Captain America. I don't want to read about Falcon as Captain America, because Steve's Nomad. I want to read about Steve Rogers as Captain America. I don't want to read about Falcon being Captain America because Steve started aging rapidly. I want to read about Steve Rogers as Captain America. I don't want to read about a restored Steve Rogers being a Hydra plant who was evil all along. I want to read about Steve Rogers as an old-fashioned Star-Spangled BoyScout Superhero. So it IS a problem to me, because they keep pulling this crap. As long as they insist of doing this to their classic characters, I won't touch a single Marvel comic. got it?After a lifetime of loyalty in terms of buying Marvel comic books I abandoned them in 2015 for mainly these reasons relative to their entire brand and pantheon of heroes.
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Post by ThatGuy on Apr 23, 2017 14:42:21 GMT
The Spider clone lasted a very long time for a gimmick too. So did the death and Return of Superman. Batman's broken back. Those all lasted well over a year. Most of Marvel's crossover events last about 6-months to a year. The Spider Clone Saga was suppose to end in the middle of when Age of Apocalypse was going on. Bob Harras, the X-men editor, was given the editor reigns of Marvel. Since the the Clone Saga was to end on Ben Reilly being the real Peter and Norman Osborn being behind it, that would have overshadowed Bob's beloved X-men (who was just a bit more popular at the time). Couldn't have that so extend the Clone Saga until AoA was over. That pretty much lost a lot of Spider-man fans back then.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Apr 23, 2017 15:46:03 GMT
The Spider clone lasted a very long time for a gimmick too. So did the death and Return of Superman. Batman's broken back. Those all lasted well over a year. Most of Marvel's crossover events last about 6-months to a year. The Spider Clone Saga was suppose to end in the middle of when Age of Apocalypse was going on. Bob Harras, the X-men editor, was given the editor reigns of Marvel. Since the the Clone Saga was to end on Ben Reilly being the real Peter and Norman Osborn being behind it, that would have overshadowed Bob's beloved X-men (who was just a bit more popular at the time). Couldn't have that so extend the Clone Saga until AoA was over. That pretty much lost a lot of Spider-man fans back then. The mid-90s worked super hard to kill the comic book industry.
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Post by ThatGuy on Apr 23, 2017 17:25:27 GMT
Most of Marvel's crossover events last about 6-months to a year. The Spider Clone Saga was suppose to end in the middle of when Age of Apocalypse was going on. Bob Harras, the X-men editor, was given the editor reigns of Marvel. Since the the Clone Saga was to end on Ben Reilly being the real Peter and Norman Osborn being behind it, that would have overshadowed Bob's beloved X-men (who was just a bit more popular at the time). Couldn't have that so extend the Clone Saga until AoA was over. That pretty much lost a lot of Spider-man fans back then. The mid-90s worked super hard to kill the comic book industry. No doubt. Batman and Superman had 3 back to back major crossovers that was really one big story each character. The X-men crossovers led into each other with a few issues in between or going into the lead in issues (Legion Quest were issues that led up to AoA). Sometimes X-men was the worst at this because they'd have half a year of issues in all the X-men books leading into that crossovers that might as well have been a part of the crossover.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Apr 23, 2017 17:31:12 GMT
The mid-90s worked super hard to kill the comic book industry. No doubt. Batman and Superman had 3 back to back major crossovers that was really one big story each character. The X-men crossovers led into each other with a few issues in between or going into the lead in issues (Legion Quest were issues that led up to AoA). Sometimes X-men was the worst at this because they'd have half a year of issues in all the X-men books leading into that crossovers that might as well have been a part of the crossover. Yeah, the X-books just fucking broke me as a kid. And I mean that in financial terms: I just didn't have enough disposable income at that age to basically keep up with the stories, which finally broke my reading pattern/habit and forced me into this weird cycle of trying to get "back in" via myriad reboots and events, only to be forced to the wayside continually because once I started working and had the money to afford the sheer glut of required X-reading, I never had the time for it all. It wasn't until the Ultimate line came out in 2001 that I started buying floppies with regularity, which I did until... they ended the Ultimate universe.
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